I Can't Fit It All IN!!!!!

[thowell]

So here is a list of what we are doing the year;

 

8th grade

Math – Lial’s Algebra with Jann in TX

Literature – Figuratively Speaking

Shakespeare study

Writing – Continue Essentials in Writing

Grammar – Kilagallon

Vocab – Vocab from Classical Roots - B

History – AC&TB

Science – Apologia Physical Science

Logic – Fallacy Detective - kindle

Latin – Latin Prep

French – Mango

 

5th Grade

Math – CLE & MM

Grammar – EG 5&6

Writing – 4+ Composition

Spelling – SWR

Vocab - Vocab from Classical Roots - A

Reading – Reading detective

 

History – AC&TB

Science – RS4K Physics – The Elements

Latin – Latin Prep

Japanese - Mango

Handwriting – Spencermanship

Shakespeare Study

 

I just cant get it all to fit! I have already considered just dropping the grammar since we are doing Latin but I still can't fit it. I really need help! Every year things seem to get dropped because we just can't get to it. I feel like if I had a set plan things would go smoother. I have tried a typical daily schedule and a loop schedule and it still WONT FIT!!! Help! Any ideas or help would be great!!!!

[MeghanL]

11 subjects is a LOT for 8th grade. 12 subjects is a LOT for 5th grade.

 

For 8th & 5th, pick one language. Pick Latin, scrap vocab & grammar. 

 

For 5th, do writing or handwriting, not both. Pick the one needing the most work this year.

 

I would recommend getting it down to no more than 8 subjects per day. Be brutal to your schedule. Remind yourself that they will not be able to find and develop their passions if they have to spend all day going from one subject to another.

 

[Mandy in TN]

This is why my 10yo will not be doing logic or foreign language. There are only so many hours in the day, and music is more important. However, if someone has figured out how to do it all and still have a life, let me know. I would love to accomplish more. :)

 

Mandy

[Chrysalis Academy]

So here is a list of what we are doing the year;

 

8th grade

Math – Lial’s Algebra with Jann in TX

Literature – Figuratively Speaking

Shakespeare study

Writing – Continue Essentials in Writing

Grammar – Kilagallon

Vocab – Vocab from Classical Roots - B

History – AC&TB

Science – Apologia Physical Science

Logic – Fallacy Detective - kindle

Latin – Latin Prep

French – Mango

 

5th Grade

Math – CLE & MM

Grammar – EG 5&6

Writing – 4+ Composition

Spelling – SWR

Vocab - Vocab from Classical Roots - A

Reading – Reading detective

 

History – AC&TB

Science – RS4K Physics – The Elements

Latin – Latin Prep

Japanese - Mango

Handwriting – Spencermanship

Shakespeare Study

 

I just cant get it all to fit! I have already considered just dropping the grammar since we are doing Latin but I still can't fit it. I really need help! Every year things seem to get dropped because we just can't get to it. I feel like if I had a set plan things would go smoother. I have tried a typical daily schedule and a loop schedule and it still WONT FIT!!! Help! Any ideas or help would be great!!!!

Are you doing all the language arts stuff every day?  That would definitely feel like too much, but what about doing a loop?  So for us, we do:

Monday - Spelling

Tuesday - Vocab

Wednesday - Grammar

Thursday - Figuratively Speaking

Friday - Kilgallon

 

We do writing every day, but by doing each of the above only once a week, we fit a lot more in with less time.  That cuts LA down to ~ 1 hour a day.  Could you alternate languages instead of doing two each day?  Could you do Science 3 days a week and Logic the other 2? Or something like that?

 

Daily subjects that are an hour each for us are Math, Language Arts (writing plus one thing from the loop), History, Literature, Science.  Then in the 6th hour, we do Logic - no more than 30 min, Foreign Language, and Typing.  Short sessions of each.  There just isn't any more room in the day.  So Latin got booted.

 

This is for a 6th grader.  My 5th grader last year didn't do Logic because I didn't want her day going over 5 hours, and we didn't actually get to spanish much.  Those are the two things I'm really trying to add in for 6th grade.

 

I dunno if that helps at all.  But if you think about how long you want to spend overall and for each subject, then juggle what you want to do to make it fit (including cutting some things down to once or twice a week, or at least not every day) it might help.

[kiwik]

I assume you don't do them all every day. There is a thread somewhere about choosing your core essentials then looping everything else. Have a look it might help.

[thowell]

Ok so I cut out Grammar and Vocab. They are both unwilling to drop their foreign language! It is only for 30 minutes a couple times a week so no biggie there. Here is what I came up with doing a loop. Please be brutal and tell me what you think.

 

Every day we will do Math 1 hr and memorization 20 minutes then we will start our loop. I did a daily loop if that makes sense so here it is:

 

Monday and Thursday - (we only do mornings on Wednesday)

After morning subjects - History 2 hrs and Science 2 hrs

 

Tuesday and Friday

all for 30 minute periods

Shakespeare - both

Figuratively Speaking - 8th

Reading Detective - 5th

Writing - Both

Logic - both

latin - both

foreign Language - both

 

For handwriting it is the Spencermanship program and both requested it so I thought we would do it only on Wednesday mornings since that is our light day.

 

This will make our days go from around 8:30 - 2:30 with 30 minute for lunch. UGH!!!! Will this work???

[Chrysalis Academy]

As far as length of day, 8:30-2:30 sounds reasonable, as long as just a 30 min  break works for you guys . . . last year we were doing 9-3 with an hour for lunch, so that's pretty close to what you are planning.  I expect the schedule to be similar for 6th grade, except we may be going till closer till 4 and/or there will be an hour of assigned independent reading in there somewhere- either mornings or evenings.

 

As far as the blocking, my only real concern is that is 2 days a week is enough for latin and foreign languages?  Do they retain enough? I know some people think those are subject it's better to do shorter sessions more frequently.  I don't have a lot of comparative experience, but I do wonder.

 

Also, I thought we would like the idea of longer blocks of history and science, but we didn't end up liking it - too hard to focus for that long on one subject.  So after trying that we went back to doing each an hour a day 4 days (instead of 2 2-hour sessions per week).  I realize that isn't an option with your schedule, but just mention it FWIW.

[PeterPan]

When I have to go from theory to realistic, I sit down with my word processor, make a table, and put everything into the daily grids with checkboxes.  Then I look at the times for each and add them up.  If *my* kid worked from 8:30-2:30, she'd be in bed the next day from fatigue.  Maybe your kid is different?  Every kid has their limit, so know yours.  Maybe your schedule is looser than it seems because *you* are the one ping-ponging and their amount of work is normal?

 

Did you include reading time in there?  That 8th grader is going to want a couple hours a day to read.  See that's why I was saying, if you take that regular time too high, you're not going to have time to read and follow rabbit trails.  Are you sure all those language arts things are ESSENTIAL?  Maybe you could find one curriculum to hit the whole thing and in less time per day?  Maybe drop some of that stuff?  People throw around curricula on the boards, so others get on the bandwagon and buy it.  A lot of it is common sense or not necessary or stuff that will be hit by another curriculum later.  You could toss all that stuff and be fine.  Toss Figuratively Speaking, Reading Detective, Killgallon, Mango (no clue on the draw there, not a complete program but just vocab from what I could see when I looked at it), etc. etc.  Ax mercilessly.  

 

Then on the rest start paring it down.  Shakespeare, that's reading one summary a week and watching an Ambrose video of the play. Done.  So that's a couple hours, but it's all in one chunk and relaxing.  At that point you're down to math, writing, history, latin, science.  That's a normal schedule.  We did Shakespeare that way one year, and last year we did opera with the same pattern.  

 

Just trim it down and be brutal.  You'll have a lot more fun and stay sane.  Don't do too much.  It keeps you from getting anything you really like done.

[IsabelC]

Work out how many hours per week you want each student to do. Decide what percentage of time should be devoted to each subject and apply that to the weekly hours (eg if you want math to be 25% loading and you want 20 hours per week, there will be 5 hours per week for math). If some subjects don't have enough time, you need to either tweak the percentages or drop (or combine) some of them. If you add up everything you'd like to do and it come to 100 hours a week, it just ain't gonna work! (usually where I was at). Good luck with it.

[happymomofboys]

11 subjects is a LOT for 8th grade. 12 subjects is a LOT for 5th grade.

 

For 8th & 5th, pick one language. Pick Latin, scrap vocab & grammar. 

 

For 5th, do writing or handwriting, not both. Pick the one needing the most work this year.

 

I would recommend getting it down to no more than 8 subjects per day. Be brutal to your schedule. Remind yourself that they will not be able to find and develop their passions if they have to spend all day going from one subject to another.

 

Thank you for the bolded.  I know it was directed to OP, but I feel like you just gave me permission to stop trying to do everything and just concentrate on what my son needs most.  Don't know why I needed it, but I didn't realize I did until just now.

[Forgiven]

I feel the same way. I have these great plans, but then I get it all written out and realize I have too much. I've tweaked our schedule a lot, and so though it looks to be a lot on paper, in reality, not eveyrthing is done every day. My kids will do the basics every day, but all th extra stuff will be folded in. I plan on giving my kids timers and each subject will get an X amount of time. Once the timer goes off, they can move onto the next thing. The only subjects that must be completed each day will be the major subjects like math, grammar, reading, and handwriting for my boys. History will get anywhere from half an hour to an hour, four days a week, and science will get an hour (or less, depending on the day) twice a week.

 

We're also doing a state study, which I give greater importance to than a lot of other things. We'll be doing that three times a week, but for 20-30 minutes each day. Latin won't take too much time. I have the DVD lessons for my kids. We're going to meet with other families on Friday afternoons and watch the lessons together. Then, during the week, the kids will do their workbook pages and practice, but the time for these look like it would be for 15 minutes or so a day--small chunks, more often.

 

I do have my daughter scheduled to do Figuratively Speaking, but it's twice a week. If I find that it takes more than a half an hour to do one lesson, then I'll make it last more than one year's worth of time.

 

I'm extrememly flexible. In the end, I like to over plan because I know that things will drop. We'll get in our groove and go with the flow. As long as the major subjects get completed, I'm happy. The rest is gravy. We may end up dropping stuff, and I'm okay with that. We may keep everything going, but doing shorter chunks of work, resulting in some stuff taking longer than a year to finish. I'm okay with that too.

 

We like to be finished right after lunch. This year the plan is to do IEW and History after lunch. I want history last because my kids can really get into it and I want them to feel free to explore as much as they'd like. So having it be the last part of our day, they won't have to worry about stopping at a certain time in order to move to the next thing. A lot of history will be individual reading too, so that will be something relaxing at the end of our day. :)

 

Good luck to finding an even balance. I know it'll take a couple weeks to tweak everything and get into a good groove.

 

 

[Laura Corin]

I agree that is too much.  I would choose among those things that overlap.  For example, a decent Latin program could take the place of vocabulary and grammar.  So don't do all three.  Also, are you married to the idea of French?  It's great to learn other languages, but frankly, after trying to do them myself I found not enough was learned to justify the effort.  So maybe 2 languages are too much. The Shakespeare...maybe only do one part of that program this year.  

 

I had to let go of doing it all.  My thought is that it is better to do fewer things well than tons of things so so.  KWIM?

 

We did lots of languages, but I agree with Wendy that you have some overlap: I'd cut out the vocab and (assuming that the grammar is pretty solid by now) maybe the grammar.  And I'd do either literature or Shakespeare.  And is that two history programmes?

 

L

[RootAnn]

You've gotten a lot of good advice. Here's a few things I suggest to help you cut down:

8th grader -

Fig Speaking - Once per week 

Shakespeare Study - Can you make this a small unit (6 weeks)  take a break from Writing or Grammar/Vocab to do it? Just plug it in INSTEAD of those during those six weeks.

Combine Grammar/Vocab so you do one of them twice per week & the other three times per week. You can vary that so over a two week time, they each get five days. Or, you can do each one twice per week so it is a set schedule.

Fallacy Detective can be done as little as twice per week and you'll get done early in the school year.

 

5th grader - 

I'd drop Vocab altogether since you are still doing Spelling. Add VCRA next year or whenever you move on from Spelling.

Shakespeare Study - same thing as rec. above.

I like the recommendation on doing handwriting or writing, but not both. I'd drop handwriting & tell your kid that 'handwriting' is part of spelling (which is what we do). Their learning log for SWR better be gorgeous!  :lol:

 

And, just so you know, I struggle with this (overscheduling) too!

[Ravin]

So here is a list of what we are doing the year;

 

8th grade

Math – Lial’s Algebra with Jann in TX

Literature – Figuratively Speaking

Shakespeare study

Writing – Continue Essentials in Writing

Grammar – Kilagallon

Vocab – Vocab from Classical Roots - B

History – AC&TB

Science – Apologia Physical Science

Logic – Fallacy Detective - kindle

Latin – Latin Prep

French – Mango

 

5th Grade

Math – CLE & MM

Grammar – EG 5&6

Writing – 4+ Composition

Spelling – SWR

Vocab - Vocab from Classical Roots - A

Reading – Reading detective

 

History – AC&TB

Science – RS4K Physics – The Elements

Latin – Latin Prep

Japanese - Mango

Handwriting – Spencermanship

Shakespeare Study

For the 8th grader: drop either vocab or Latin. If Fig. Speaking isn't being applied to Shakespeare, drop one of them. Alternate days for doing Grammar and Writing, or drop grammar.

 

For the 5th grader, drop grammar and vocab, or drop Latin. Alternate penmanship with writing, or drop it.

[Bang!Zoom!]

I think sometimes we become paralyzed by the calendar. If you throw away the calendar and mind set of "must be done by X date" - you'll find ways to get it all in.

[Tammyla]

:iagree: That is just too many subjects to do them well.  It's better to pick 5-7 subjects and do each subject with rigor than to try and hit so many nothing is ever really covered.  They can all be excellent programs, but if you're spinning your wheels by stretching yourselves too far...It's a recipe for at best a so-so year and at worst burnout and failure.

 

I understand the desire to choose a big meaty schedule and excel, but it often backfires when real life kicks in. ymmv

[ondreeuh]

I have a long list of things I want to do too ... I set up a spreadsheet and wrote in each week, and then staggered things through the year. So for example, at the beginning of the year we will do cursive instruction and REWARDS (reading), which should take about a quarter (9 weeks). Once that is done move into Logic of English. Also, for the first half of the year (or more) we will do The Paragraph Book series, and when we are through with that we will do SWI-A following the 15 week or "boot camp" schedule, depending on how things go. Also, I have some things on M, W, F only as we have lessons on T, Th afternoons. What we don't get to, we can do next year. :)

 

I would look at doing Reading Detective/Figuratively Speaking once a week - Wednesday since that is your light day.

Maybe start out with handwriting, and when that is completed then start the writing curriculum.

I'd alternate vocabulary, spelling and grammar on a loop ( so each one is done every 3rd day). And I wouldn't worry about finishing Easy Grammar 6 in 5th grade - you can do that next year.

[thowell]

Ok, I think I have it! Thank you everyone, for your suggestions. I did decide to drop Grammar, Vocab, and spelling. Dd10 testing into one of the last lists in SWR so I think she will be ok with out it. She also completed EG 3/4 last year so I think she will be fine skipping a year. I am doing writing only once a week since they also do alot of notebooking in history. So, I was able to put it on a regular 5 day a week (Wednesday being light)schedule and be done by 2 everyday! That is with a 45 minute lunch!! So we shall see if it will work. Some of the subjects wont last all year so times will change through the year some. We start Monday so I guess we shall see!

[strange_girl]

Newbie here; just wanted to pop in and say good luck!

 

I am also an over-scheduler...I always want to do everything I see that I like! How do we decide which ones we simply can't do???

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yeah, good luck from me as well! I reshuffled our schedule 3 or 4 times during the first few weeks of school last year, and finally got it all wired.  Sometimes it just takes awhile to figure out what works best.

[Tammyla]

Have a great year :001_smile: .  I always love a plan that is solid and well thought out.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Newbie here; just wanted to pop in and say good luck!

 

I am also an over-scheduler...I always want to do everything I see that I like! How do we decide which ones we simply can't do???

Have you gotten a copy of The Well Trained Mind and considered the layout there? It's a great way to take this issue completely off the table.

 

I must say, the curriculum maps are pretty snazzy.

 

http://peacehillpress.com/curriculum-guides/curriculum-map.html

[Ravin]

I always go through and look at priorities. Right now I'm having to pare back because I know I've overplanned and DD can only handle so much.

 

Priorities for us:

1. Content: Latin, Math, Grammar, Literature, Geography

2. Skills: Writing, Reading (comprehension/fluency), spelling, typing, study skills

3. DD's interests: Art and music theory

 

Things I'd like to do but might have to cut:

 

Penmanship (cursive)

Reading roman history from Lively Latin

 

Things I have already cut:

 

Formal writing curriculum

Storybooking Roman History from Lively Latin

 

We have limits on how much time we have together, so some of DD's work has to be independent, which requires tweaking our curricula and some creative scheduling as she is not independently inclined in many subjects/areas.

 

 

[8filltheheart]

nm.....I just went through and read where you want to finish 8th grade in 5 1/2 hrs.   That would never work here.....that is why I couldn't understand why you couldn't fit it all in.  7-8 hrs is the norm for an 8th grader in our house.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I always go through and look at priorities

 

So important! To cut subjects based on a different person's priorities is risky. It's tempting to cut a subject when it seems so many find it frivolous or to add a subject many find crucial, when it's really just a personal choice.

 

Music is as important to some as math--if not more so. Some freely give philosophy the ax. (Or don't even need to give it the ax because it was never an option at all.)

 

Turns out, some philosophers are probably pretty happy with philosophy ( or happily miserable with it, as the case may be). At any rate, these philosophers were once children too. At some point they needed an introduction to it. One can argue it doesn't need to be a formal subject or at a young age, but can't that be argued about anything?

 

My point is twofold:

 

1. Be careful about adding or subtracting based on another person's values (unless they reflect yours).

 

2. Sometimes even a short time spent on “extras†can be priceless. Those brief moments can spark lifelong passions.

 

 

Personally, looking at the list, I'm inclined to agree with 8.

 

 

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

nm.....I just went through and read where you want to finish 8th grade in 5 1/2 hrs.   That would never work here.....that is why I couldn't understand why you couldn't fit it all in.  7-8 hrs is the norm for an 8th grader in our house.

 

 I missed that part, too. I still agree with your line of thinking, though. We have longer days here as well.  I have previously wondered if maybe it was because I'm homeschooling just one, but it just occurred to me that's probably not the case after all.

[stoverdavid30]

I remember those days...keep pluggin' away!

[thowell]

nm.....I just went through and read where you want to finish 8th grade in 5 1/2 hrs.   That would never work here.....that is why I couldn't understand why you couldn't fit it all in.  7-8 hrs is the norm for an 8th grader in our house.

I actually thought it would be 7-8 hours but everyone made it seem so overdone to do that much. So tell me this, what time frames do you school? With the schedule I have now we would school from 8:30 - 2:30 with a 45 minute lunch and then they would have about 1.5 hours of reading at night. Now dd10 will be finished quicker. I have had this leering over me all day feeling poorly about dropping some things. So I am all ears!!

[thowell]

I missed that part, too. I still agree with your line of thinking, though. We have longer days here as well.  I have previously wondered if maybe it was because I'm homeschooling just one, but it just occurred to me that's probably not the case after all.

Same questions to you... what time period do you school? I have no objection to 7-8 hour days just didn't want to over do her. KWIM??

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Same questions to you... what time period do you school? I have no objection to 7-8 hour days just didn't want to over do her. KWIM??

 

Roughly 9am-6pm right now. That will likely shift to an earlier time-frame in the fall. She has 1/2 hour breaks in am and pm and an hour lunch. This is bookwork--no chores, music practice, sports are counted for this time.

 

ETA: She sometimes does work in the evenings and weekends as well.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I am also an over-planner and probably have too many things on our plate. My dd is in 2nd grade, so full days are not an option. But I'm wondering, your dd must WANT to do work that much, I presume? And lots of it must be independent work? I'm just thinking that there's no time in there for you to do chores etc. Totally curious :)

Right, our days didn't look like this is 2nd grade. :001_smile:  We absolutely had a routine, though!

We work independently together. ;) 

 

She generally works for a bit of time on a subject herself (maybe 1/2 or 1 hour--depending on the subject) then we work on it together.

 

For example, she does math herself for 1.5 hours or so while I plan/do paperwork/read/etc. Then we read and discuss a math read-aloud together for a bit. (We have read-alouds for many subjects to do after she finishes the independent work in the subject for the day.)

 

Most subjects work this way, although some subjects we just do a few minutes of work together or she does a few minutes independently.

So basically there's a good balance between independent work and discussion. I am a not a fan of 100% independent work all day long, if it can be avoided. Where is the feedback and guidance? Where is the discussion/debate/delight in spending time together on the educational journey?

 

We sometimes start a load of laundry, load the dishwasher, etc on breaks. We enjoy doing a read-aloud while loading and unloading the dishwasher at lunch.

DH is good about helping with chores too.

 

Is our house spotless? :smilielol5:  no.     We do try to keep clutter to a minimum.  Morning, noon, and night routines help keep it tidy, clean, and running smoothly. It's when we let the routines fall to the wayside that the troubles begin. ;)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 But I'm wondering, your dd must WANT to do work that much, I presume?

 

She enjoys learning, reading, discussing, etc. I don't really ask her if she wants to do this much--we just do.

I imagine if asked she might say it's dreadful! Her day-to-day behavior tells me otherwise. ;)

 

Our days have evolved into this, I didn't plan for them to be this way. It just seems to work for us.

 

[quark]

Roughly 9am-6pm right now. That will likely shift to an earlier time-frame in the fall. She has 1/2 hour breaks in am and pm and an hour lunch. This is bookwork--no chores, music practice, sports are counted for this time.

 

ETA: She sometimes does work in the evenings and weekends as well.

 

Asking out of curiosity as well...perhaps it's all in the definition of what is "work"? For example, if someone asked me how long we homeschool in a day, I'd say 4, 5 hours at most because I'm only counting the "formal" outsourced work with required homework and research/ reading/ writing. But there are so many more hours where we are reading, discussing, kiddo is doing math for fun or blogging about something he loves (but still usually pretty academic) and still obviously learning loads that I don't count in our day.

 

ETA: So what I am trying to say is, if I counted all of that it would easily be 8-9 hours or more a day.

[8filltheheart]

I actually thought it would be 7-8 hours but everyone made it seem so overdone to do that much. So tell me this, what time frames do you school? With the schedule I have now we would school from 8:30 - 2:30 with a 45 minute lunch and then they would have about 1.5 hours of reading at night. Now dd10 will be finished quicker. I have had this leering over me all day feeling poorly about dropping some things. So I am all ears!!

 

The reality of my kids' days really does follow approx 1 hr of school work/grade level +/- some.   My high schoolers' days avg anywhere from 7-10 hrs/day.  So your times for a 5th grader would be fairly accurate.   My kids start early in the morning.   Some of them get up and start at 5.   Some start around 630.  Depends on motivated they are to be finished earlier in the day.

 

I am copying this from a thread on the logic board.   This would be fairly representative of my dd's 8th grade yr last yr.   Some of my older kids were only taking 1 foreign lang in 8th grade, but they were also slower writers/readers, so reading and writing would have easily consumed that 45-60 mins every day.

Science, history, lit each 1 hr

Latin and French each around 45 mins

Math for about 1 1/2 hrs

Writing about 45 mins

Religion, spelling, vocab, and grammar each about 15 mins

And the last hr is real life bc nothing ever fits neatly into tightly timed boxes.....so the above are approximates. Some days may be longer, some shorter, but realistically my 8th graders rarely finish under 7 1/2 hrs and I would guess that 8 is more real.  ETA:  I forgot that she also took Russian......so that would have added another 45 mins.

 

I am also an over-planner and probably have too many things on our plate. My dd is in 2nd grade, so full days are not an option. But I'm wondering, your dd must WANT to do work that much, I presume? And lots of it must be independent work? I'm just thinking that there's no time in there for you to do chores etc. Totally curious :)

 

In our homeschool you absolutely cannot compare a 2nd grader's to an 8th grader's day. 

 

Asking out of curiosity as well...perhaps it's all in the definition of what is "work"? For example, if someone asked me how long we homeschool in a day, I'd say 4, 5 hours at most because I'm only counting the "formal" outsourced work with required homework and research/ reading/ writing. But there are so many more hours where we are reading, discussing, kiddo is doing math for fun or blogging about something he loves (but still usually pretty academic) and still obviously learning loads that I don't count in our day.

 

ETA: So what I am trying to say is, if I counted all of that it would easily be 8-9 hours or more a day.

 

Quark, I wonder if the difference in perception is the age of the child.    THere is a huge difference between 10-11 and 13-14.   My 8th grade kids are on task completing assigned work for that amt of time during the school day.     I am pretty hard core about it.  ;)

[Rosie_0801]

I am also an over-scheduler...I always want to do everything I see that I like! How do we decide which ones we simply can't do???

In my limited experience, they decide for you...

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Asking out of curiosity as well...perhaps it's all in the definition of what is "work"? For example, if someone asked me how long we homeschool in a day, I'd say 4, 5 hours at most because I'm only counting the "formal" outsourced work with required homework and research/ reading/ writing. But there are so many more hours where we are reading, discussing, kiddo is doing math for fun or blogging about something he loves (but still usually pretty academic) and still obviously learning loads that I don't count in our day.

 

ETA: So what I am trying to say is, if I counted all of that it would easily be 8-9 hours or more a day.

 

We don't have any outsourced work. If that is what you mean by work, then she doesn't do any! ;)

 

It seems to me we are counting hours the same. I don't count all reading, discussing, math for fun, etc as "school work."  Educational? Yes, but it's not required, therefore I don't count it in the school hours. When it is not assigned and happens outside "school hours" I don't count them.

 

What I do count is assigned work. So when I say 9-6 (or 8-5 or some other variation) I mean assigned work--not reading about a history topic for fun. I call that free time. When I say she sometimes works in the evening or on the weekend, I mean doing assigned work.

 

 I don't wake her up when she turns a certain age and tell her she will now do x hours of school. This has been a natural progression for us. Do I think all eleven-year-olds should have our schedule? Of course not!

 

By the same token, I would be remiss to not do what is clearly working for the eleven-year-old in front of me. That is one reason I said what I did earlier--don't cut subjects just because others do unless it follows your values and your child's abilities, interests, and goals. That's one of the biggest reasons we homeschool. My child is an individual--not an age. Her age is only a part of what defines her. There are billions of people who have been eleven years old. I think we can agree not all people are equal in their development, capabilities, or interests. I don't expect all 40-year-olds to be the same, why would I expect all eleven-year-olds to be the same? There are developmental guidelines, but these are not rigid. 

 

Also, to be clear about the read-alouds. I prefer to call them shared reading because often "read-aloud" conjures up "snuggle time" with wee ones. Our shared reading is aimed at being above her level so she is learning new vocabulary and pronunciation. It is not uncommon for us to take a dictionary to the kitchen when we do shared reading while doing the dishes. Her "breaks" are often eating snacks while I am reading to her from a book I wouldn't just hand to her and expect her to read and absorb on her own.

 

During "school hours" she is at her desk doing math, reading assigned work, writing essays, etc. During her free time she may also be writing, reading, or doing math for fun. That's still called free time.

 

Hope that clarifies my thoughts. It is probably more helpful to give specifics rather than a number of hours.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I imagine if asked she might say it's dreadful! Her day-to-day behavior tells me otherwise. ;)

 

 

 

Just to clarify. . .

 

Work is not always "fun".  There are plenty of things I find perfectly dreadful while doing them, but when they are finished I look back with pride and a sense of satisfaction at a job well done. It is not uncommon to hear nothing but complaints during an assignment, but then see a beaming smile and hear, "That was fun!" as the work is completed. :svengo:

[thowell]

Thank you Woodland and 8 for your thoughts. I think I am going to see what happens once we start. I will start with the basic schedule we have and then fold in the subjects I cut out for dd13. Even dd10 was upset yesterday when I told her we were dropping vocab. SHE doesn't want to drop it!! So I will give it a week or two and see how it goes. I am glad to know if dd13 works from 8:30 - 5:00 I will not be a horrible monster. I will step her up gradually as Woodland suggested. I dont see how anyone could possibly cover everything that needs to be covered in HS doing only 4-5 hours a day. They are probably better schedule makers than I am. Thanks again!!!

[Garga]

I've heard that a general guideline is to study 1 hour a day per grade.  A second grader studies for 2 hours, an 8th grader studies for 8 hours.  Once you hit about 8-9th grade, it starts to level out.  A 12th grader wouldn't study for 12 hours a day.

 

My kids are going into 3rd and 6th and we'll be doing school for 6.5 hours a day.  Plus, I'll have them read fun stuff for 1/2 an hour before bed and their dad will teach them Latin in the evenings on top of the 6.5.  (The Latin isn't vigorous.)  Also--my kids will have slight breaks while I am working with one child and not the other during those 6.5 hours.

 

I have 14 subjects I want to do in the day, plus the Latin and free reading in the evening.  Some subjects are an hour (math) and some are only 15 minutes (typing.)

 

Here is how I do it.  I remembered that in the Catholic school we were not on a 5 day rotation.  We were on a 6 day rotation.  The core subjects were done every day, but the electives were rotated among 6 days.  We still schooled for 5 days a week, but it cycled through 6 different daily schedules.  There was an A day, B day, C day...F Day.  If we started on Monday with an A-day, we could get to E-day by Friday.  Then next Monday we would start with the F day.

 

In a 180 day school year, there are 36 weeks.  But if you go with cycles, then in a 180 day school year there are 30 cycles.  

 

I divvied up all 14 subjects into 30 6 day cycles.  We will do art only twice a cycle.  So there are only 60 lessons in art the entire year.  Plenty.  I will teach them the piano only once a cycle, so they will have only 30 piano lessons, plus 15 minutes a day to practice.  The 15 minutes of practice is included in their 6.5 hour school day.  

 

We will do math every day.  So they will get all 180 days of math.  Science is 3 times a cycle, so there are 90 science lessons.  

 

When I divvy it up that way, I can fit in more subjects.  The core subjects are done all 180 days.  But the extras, like Figuratively Speaking (which we are also using) are done slightly less often, but I am absolutely comfortable that it is plenty.    

 

 

 

[thowell]

I've heard that a general guideline is to study 1 hour a day per grade.  A second grader studies for 2 hours, an 8th grader studies for 8 hours.  Once you hit about 8-9th grade, it starts to level out.  A 12th grader wouldn't study for 12 hours a day.

 

My kids are going into 3rd and 6th and we'll be doing school for 6.5 hours a day.  Plus, I'll have them read fun stuff for 1/2 an hour before bed and their dad will teach them Latin in the evenings on top of the 6.5.  (The Latin isn't vigorous.)  Also--my kids will have slight breaks while I am working with one child and not the other during those 6.5 hours.

 

I have 14 subjects I want to do in the day, plus the Latin and free reading in the evening.  Some subjects are an hour (math) and some are only 15 minutes (typing.)

 

Here is how I do it.  I remembered that in the Catholic school we were not on a 5 day rotation.  We were on a 6 day rotation.  The core subjects were done every day, but the electives were rotated among 6 days.  We still schooled for 5 days a week, but it cycled through 6 different daily schedules.  There was an A day, B day, C day...F Day.  If we started on Monday with an A-day, we could get to E-day by Friday.  Then next Monday we would start with the F day.

 

In a 180 day school year, there are 36 weeks.  But if you go with cycles, then in a 180 day school year there are 30 cycles.  

 

I divvied up all 14 subjects into 30 6 day cycles.  We will do art only twice a cycle.  So there are only 60 lessons in art the entire year.  Plenty.  I will teach them the piano only once a cycle, so they will have only 30 piano lessons, plus 15 minutes a day to practice.  The 15 minutes of practice is included in their 6.5 hour school day.  

 

We will do math every day.  So they will get all 180 days of math.  Science is 3 times a cycle, so there are 90 science lessons.  

 

When I divvy it up that way, I can fit in more subjects.  The core subjects are done all 180 days.  But the extras, like Figuratively Speaking (which we are also using) are done slightly less often, but I am absolutely comfortable that it is plenty.

 

This sounds great, I Think??? Can't quite wrap my mind around it. Do you have a visual you could share? An example schedule?? How do you figure out what subject to put in which day, ex. day A Day B and so on?

[quark]

We don't have any outsourced work. If that is what you mean by work, then she doesn't do any! ;)

 

Oh no, not at all. That's not the only work I mean but the outsourced subjects are the bulk of what he is doing and require a lot of thinking and writing and computing/ calculation time.

 

It seems to me we are counting hours the same. I don't count all reading, discussing, math for fun, etc as "school work."  Educational? Yes, but it's not required, therefore I don't count it in the school hours. When it is not assigned and happens outside "school hours" I don't count them.

 

What I do count is is assigned work. So when I say 9-6 (or 8-5 or some other variation) I mean assigned work--not reading about a history topic for fun. I call that free time. When I say she sometimes works in the evening or on the weekend, I mean doing assigned work.

 

 I don't wake her up when she turns a certain age and tell her she will now do x hours of school. This has been a natural progression for us. Do I think all eleven-year-olds should have our schedule? Of course not!

 

By the same token, I would be remiss to not do what is clearly working for the eleven-year-old in front of me. That is one reason I said what I did earlier--don't cut subjects just because others do unless it follows your values and your child's abilities, interests, and goals. That's one of the biggest reasons we homeschool. My child is an individual--not an age. Her age is only a part of what defines her. There are billions of people who have been eleven years old. I think we can agree not all people are equal in their development, capabilities, or interests. I don't expect all 40-year-olds to be the same, why would I expect all eleven-year-olds to be the same? There are developmental guidelines, but these are not rigid. 

 

Also, to be clear about the read-alouds. I prefer to call them shared reading because often "read-aloud" conjures up "snuggle time" with wee ones. Our shared reading is aimed at being above her level so she is learning new vocabulary and pronunciation. It is not uncommon for us to take a dictionary to the kitchen when we do shared reading while doing the dishes. Her "breaks" are often eating snacks while I am reading to her from a book I wouldn't just hand to her and expect her to read and absorb on her own.

 

During "school hours" she is at her desk doing math, reading assigned work, writing essays, etc. During her free time she may also be writing, reading, or doing math for fun. That's still called free time.

 

Hope that clarifies my thoughts. It is probably more helpful to give specifics rather than a number of hours.

 

Yes, it's very clear. Thank you for sharing and explaining how you do it. :) I prefer to follow the needs of my specific child as well, not by age or someone else's values, but it helps to know how others do it, especially someone with an only child of the same age.

 

 

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

You're welcome! I agree that it helps to see what others in similar situations are doing. As a matter of fact, I just finished reading with interest a thread of yours about your plans for the coming year. :)

 

 

(I hope it didn't seem the 11-year-old comments were directed at you! They were just general comments. The thread of yours I just mentioned is proof positive you have your eyes on your child and his needs! I'm so glad you shared your plans, though-- I love getting ideas!)

 

[Mommy22alyns]

I know people double up on math frequently, but why CLE and MM for your 5th grader?  I can't imagine having Rebecca do both - they're pretty packed.  I would totally drop the handwriting; possibly have her write all assignments in cursive instead.  That's what I'm doing.  I would have to drop a language; Latin is very time consuming for us.

 

I'm terrible about putting time restrictions on subjects though.  I have a loose schedule and a routine, but that's it.  Last year, we were doing 9-2 with Rebecca taking from 2-3 to do Latin before heading to the gym.

[thowell]

I know people double up on math frequently, but why CLE and MM for your 5th grader?  I can't imagine having Rebecca do both - they're pretty packed.  I would totally drop the handwriting; possibly have her write all assignments in cursive instead.  That's what I'm doing.  I would have to drop a language; Latin is very time consuming for us.

 

I'm terrible about putting time restrictions on subjects though.  I have a loose schedule and a routine, but that's it.  Last year, we were doing 9-2 with Rebecca taking from 2-3 to do Latin before heading to the gym.

[/quote

 

We do CLE as her main math. However, I also add in MM on each new topic just to show a different perspective and way of doing it. The handwriting is Spencermanship and it is something they both asked to do. They both write in cursive and print just fine. This is something different to learn. As for the languages not really an option. I want them to learn Latin and they both want to learn the other languages. Besides, when I look at alot of public and private schools, I see kids taking Latin and a modern language. I thought the main point behind Latin was for the vocab and grammar. How would that replace a modern spoken language? Maybe I am just not seeing it clearly. I am thinking we may be fine. Heck dd13 was doing her logic at 9:00 last night for fun so maybe this will work better than I thought.

[Garga]

I forgot to hit "quote" before typing all this, so I'll just introduce this by saying I'm the poster who uses a 6 day cycle instead of a 5 day cycle so that I can scatter my electives over 6 days instead of 5.  Someone (maybe the OP) asked if I had charts to demonstrate what I do.

 

We don't work 6 days a week, we just rotate among 6 different daily schedules.  

 

Here's what I did to create this:

 

1.  I wrote out all my subjects.

2.  Referenced the WTM book to see how much time each subject would take each day.

3.  Added up all the time each core daily subject would take each day.  4.5 hours.

4.  Added up all the time the electives would take over a 6 day period.  The electives added up to 720 minutes (12 hours).  Divided the 12 hours by the 6 days in my cycle equals two additional hours of homeschool a day. 

5.  I wrote chart with A day to F day across the top.

6.  Under each day, I wrote in the core/daily subjects which would be the first 4.5 hours of the day.

7.  At the end of each day, I scattered the electives into the last 2 hours of the day.  

 

I can't quite cut and paste my beautiful charts, but I can kinda mush them together for you below. 

 

Here is the list of all the subjects, with my time allotments for each subject and number of lessons that will be taught each year in parentheses.

 

 

Math                     45-60 min a day (180)     LOF, MUS

Spelling                15 min a day (180)            AAS

Grammar              40 min a day (180)            Rod and Staff

Reading                40 min a day (180)            Total Lang +, Fig speaking

Writing                  60 min  a day (180)           IEW

Bible                     30 min a day (180)           

Typing                  15 min a day (180)            Goodtyping.com

History                   60 min, 3 days a cycle  (90)           

Science                 60 min, 3 days a cycle (90)            BJU

Art                         60 min, 2 days a cycle (60)            How to teach art to children.

Music                    30 min lesson a week (60)

                            15 min practice a day (150)          

Cursive                 Incorporate into writing                

Etiquette               30 minutes a cycle (30)  The essential 55

Safety                   Co-op class        

Civics                     60 minutes a cycle (30)  "We The People"

Logic                   2 hours cycle (60)             Critical Thinking book

Reading-free        30 min a day (180)            For fun, after school hours--in bed.

Latin                    3 hours a cycle (90)          In evening with Dad

 

Here is the chart of my A day through F day with all the core subjects at the beginning and then the 5 electives scattered at the bottom of each day.

 

A                     B                     C                     D                     E                     F

Math (60)        Math               Math               Math               Math               Math

Bible (30)       Bible               Bible               Bible               Bible               Bible

Grammar (40)Grammar       Grammar        Grammar        Grammar        Grammar

Writing (60)   Writing           Writing           Writing           Writing           Writing

Spelling (15) Spelling         Spelling         Spelling         Spelling         Spelling

Reading (40) Reading         Reading         Reading         Reading         Reading

Typing (15)    Typing            Typing            Typing            Typing            Typing

Piano practice (15)              Piano             Piano                         Piano                         Piano

Hx (60)           Sci                  Hx                   Sci                  Hx                   Sci

Art (60)           Logic              Civics             Art                   Logic              Etiquette

 

 

Then, just to make things interesting, I took those A days through F days and changed the order of the subjects so that the fun subjects are interspersed with the subjects they don't like so much--but I didn't include that chart here, because I'm having trouble getting the charts into the Forum without a bit of a hassle.

 

(Note "Free reading" and "Latin" aren't part of the schedule.  They do that in bed before sleeping and Latin is with their Dad in the evenings.)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Garga,

 

Thanks for taking the time to post that. It's always so interesting to see a glimpse into the school days of others!

[JenC3]

So I've decided on a set time schedule, goals for each kid and each subject. I have an idea of how it will go, but I too, have a ton of stuff I want to accomplish. I "plan" to have an idea of how it will go after the first few weeks. We are working HARD M-TR and then Friday is a fill in of stuff we wanted to do but weren't able to during the week.

 

Think about what you want to accomplish from each subject and draw from their. Example Shakespeare: do you want then to read a bunch of plays? Memorize lines, know his biography? I would concentrate on a bit of memory work and read two plays and REALLY dig into them. They have plenty of time to get more Shakespeare later.

[thowell]

Garga, That looks great! Thanks for the idea. I am going to try it and see how things fit in.

[happypamama]

I would alternate the languages; we have it so that on M and W, DD (6th grader) does Latin (with me), and she does Mango language on T and Th. On M and W, my 3rd grader does Mango language, and I do Latin with him on T and Th. (I really can't do Latin with the two of them together; DD is very good at languages and sped quickly through the beginning Latin. It would be holding her back at a great disservice to keep them together for Latin.)

 

I do some things every day, like math, literature, writing, science, and history (occasionally something gets skipped, but largely, those are every day), but other things rotate -- art once a week, composer study or picture study once a week (in blocks -- 4-6 weeks of composer study once a week, followed by 4-6 weeks of picture study once a week), geography once a week, etc. I would do things like vocabulary once a week or something, not every day.

[kristinannie]

Have you started school yet?  I scheduled way more time than necessary for some subjects so our days are actually shorter than I anticipated.  Also, I tend to think that there is too much pressure to finish school quickly on these boards sometimes.  Do what works for your family and don't feel guilty about it!