Why are we fat? (I mainly mean Americans, but anyone can postulate.)

[SKL]

Just wanted to pop in and say I'm another, but without the salt. I prefer lemon juice on salad. No calories there.

 

If I'm making my own salad, I don't use salad dressing at all.  If I'm buying, I try to get the dressing on the side so I can use it sparingly if at all.  This is another "choice" that anyone can make if motivated to.  I don't believe it's going to make anyone fat or skinny by itself, but it's the whole mindset.  Everything doesn't have to taste "fun" all the time.  I like my food to taste like the actual ingredients.

 

[OH_Homeschooler]

That is what happens to me.  As soon as I declare I'm on a diet I start spazzing out.

 

I avoid declaring that.  And I don't own a scale. 

 

I'm not addressing you directly, rather the general notion of Weight Watchers.

 

I get the idea that dieting leads to spazout, but I've found that I need the external pressure to make the right choices initially. Weight Watchers has been doing a great job this year focusing on building healthier routines (the routine of the month in June was to eat breakfast every morning). There is still Points counting, and it helps me but I generally use it as a guideline and have learned that I'm much more successful when I allow myself to be flexible. That is, if I splurge I do much better just assigning a Points value to it (even if I underestimate) and move on. This is what prevents me from going nuts the rest of the night or weekend or whatever, and gets me back to healthier eating right away. 

 

I've also come to the conclusion that I need a scale in my life. The times when I've decided I didn't need it, I gained a lot of weight (often I put it away when I had a bad week and figured I'd get it back out when I had a better week, but I never had better weeks then one day I'm getting weighed at the doctor's office and there's an extra 25 pounds I didn't expect...true story).  It's taken me a long time to come to terms with the scale, but now I see it as a source of objective information. I don't beat myself up over the number anymore.  

 

I do think it's great when people can maintain a weight they're happy with without a scale, I just know that's not in my makeup.  

[Murphy101]

Yikes. I actually agree to some level with both of you.

 

Frankly, being poor is a b,tech (ha! Autocorrect!) and bemoaning it doesn't change what one thing about that fact. Btdt. If they can't garden, then they can't garden. Fine. But if they can and it will save them money and feed them better and they just don't want to because they are tired? Suck it up butter cups. I cannot count how brain dead exhausted my Dh and I have been over the years from working sometimes two jobs and a part time and juggling the kids. But it's what we had to do to make it through, so we did it. It sucked. But until there is a crazy over haul in our society for how people are paid and resources are managed and distributed in this country - that's just the cards being dealt to those who are poor. I suppose Dh could have said, "Screw this! I've been on my feet for 14 hours, damned if I'm going to ____ when I get home." I sure would have totally understood his sentiment and likely shared it. But we didn't. We just did what we had to do and held each other up through it.

 

I know many don't have that attitude, commitment, or know how knowledge to bettering themselves. Or they get so beaten down that they just give up. And to people like SKL, that seems to justify their derision of the poor or the ignorant.

 

Because SKL is right to some degree too. There will always be people who don't do what they should do. And there will always be businesses funded by our govt to supply them with ready means to be unhealthy in many ways. I could do more. But I'm not. For many reasons. Financial mostly. But truth is, even being poor enough to be on food stamps the main factor to our health was being married and me staying home. Sadly that's not common to the poor. And I'll be honest and say if I was working 1.5 jobs, had my kids in school, was divorced, and when I finally got home to sit and eat? I'd probably say screw it all and eat a a sneakers over a whole30 compliant meal too. Because even the poor will seek ways to comfort themselves. And often the only affordable, quick and not considered self destructive means are sedentary screen time and food.

 

So, working poor must come home from physically demanding jobs in hotels and restaurants that pay minimum wage and maintain a garden, after their commute on 2 or three buses. 

 

Community gardens in my area cost money. 

 

Apartment building management doesn't just let people plant on the grounds. Sure some management would let tenants organize a garden, but many would not --citing some liability issue. 

 

I do know some low income people in my area garden, but it is not an option for many.

 

  

We seem to rehash this "cost of veggies" argument rather often.  Veggies aren't that expensive.  At least, the ones I eat and feed my kids are not.  Nor are most of the fruits people commonly eat.  I don't believe it's the availability of these foods that causes obesity, but the priority people put on them as they spend their money (regardless of where the money came from).  It isn't PC to say it, but the fact is that way too many of "poor" families' dollars go to junk that shouldn't even be remotely thought of as food.  Things that are not cheap.  Things my family simply does not eat/drink except on rare occasions.  I do not know why these choices are made, but it's not because these folks are starving and can't find a bag of carrots/apples/beans anywhere.  I can be standing behind these people in the same grocery store where I buy my own food.  So obviously access is not the issue.  My per person grocery bill is smaller, so it isn't about cost.  Maybe they simply don't like veggies, or maybe they're addicted to chips, or maybe they just aren't thinking in the long term.  Giving them more money would not stop them from buying the junk food.  I'm pretty confident that if you did a study on this, you'd find me correct.

[LucyStoner]

SKL, I must admit to being curious just how many fruits and vegetables, organic or not, you can afford on your less than $100/monthly food budget inclusive of near daily eating out.  Here the organic strawberries and carrots you reference on this thread would cost 10% or more of your budget just for a few days worth.  You must possess some grocery wizardry that eludes the rest of us (and I am a stone soup gal who does cook from scratch, glean, grow a few things etc).  Do you get 5-7 daily fruit and veggies servings each?  What is your secret?  

 

 

[PeacefulChaos]

Totally random, but I got on the scale this morning and was like, 'No way.  I don't even believe it.'

Not that it was lower than usual - it was the same as it's been for the last couple of months.  Lower than it was in February.  

But I was like, 'There is no way in h*ll that I feel this awesome - and look this much better than I did - and still weigh that.'  

 

And overall, I came away with the idea that my weight isn't that big of a deal.  It'll come off with time if I stay healthy.  Because I'm being healthy, I'm feeling awesome.  

 

And here's me drinking my blended iced mocha for the week.  :D  :D  :D

 

http://instagram.com/p/bl_1UwOpyC/

[SKL]

There are other issues at hand though.  No, they aren't necessarily expensive per se, but there are other costs associated with fresh produce.  For example, it doesn't sit on the shelf for any period of time.  You have to know how to deal with it.  Believe it or not, some people seriously don't know how to prepare fresh vegetables.  If you want to transport some of it (say for a school lunch or a work lunch) you need special containers for some of it.  I mean it sounds silly, but these things are factors.  I once offered a neighbor some green beans from our garden and she said no thanks because she didn't know what to do with them.  I'm thinking what is there to do.  She only ate canned.  So she had no idea.

 

Well and certain times of the year they are very expensive.  At least around here.  This is my favorite time of the year because it means fresh veggies that don't cost a fortune.  But during other times of the year stuff costs three times as much or more.

 

Speaking of green beans.  The last time I bought fresh green beans they cost me $4.99 a pound.  Not exactly cheap. 

 

Maybe I've been doing it wrong all my life.  See, I don't "prepare" carrots or apples (or a lot of other simple foods), I eat them.  Some you have to cook, but really - if someone gets to adulthood/parenthood without knowing how to boil (which I doubt is really that common), we have serious issues that need to be dealt with.  Maybe folks should have to take a basic cooking course (or test out of it) in order to qualify for food stamps or something.  If you don't know how to boil veggies, no amount of money is going to solve your problem.  As for the storage issue, I'm not buying it.  The 30+% of people who are obese are not obese because they do not have refrigerators.  I'll bet they keep their pop and beer cold enough.

 

[OH_Homeschooler]

I hear you on that.  I guess my problem with Weight Watchers is I don't so much agree with their idea of healthy eating.  Or I should say, it wouldn't work for me as is.  The concept in general is good, the allowed foods, not good for me. 

 

 

I'm seriously not trying to recruit you for WW or anything :laugh: , but they've also made some real improvements in the program with regard to emphasizing healthier foods. There is a lot more emphasis on fruits and vegetables...they don't cost any Points any more. The Points on 100 calorie packs went up, etc. So now, if someone has a choice between a banana (0) and a 100 calorie pack (3), they're more likely to choose the banana, which several years ago would have cost MORE than the 100 calorie pack. 

 

But I guess going back to the original question, for those who are actively trying to lose weight, the fact that WW is always changing its program is proof that we just don't have the answer to obesity yet. It's a work in progress. WW is very highly regarded among the experts as being safe and effective, and it's always looking to the latest research for guidance, and I really like that.

 

I'm lucky that I can afford to attend WW, and have that support. With the monthly pass, I pay about $10 a week for membership...that's not something a lot of people can afford. This is similar to the fruits and vegetables argument above in that not everyone has access to the information they need. And yes, although some of that information may be common sense to many of us, it's just not to so many others. 

[wapiti]

IMO, the debate over whether certain people eat enough veggies is not particularly relevant to the cause of the high obesity numbers (acknowledging that there will always be some individual differences in causes).  IMO, for a significant percentage of obese people, the difficulty involves a genetic intolerance - that may build slowly and imperceptibly over many years - for the large amounts grains and sugar in all their various forms.  (But then, I now eat high fat/low carb.  I find it interesting that apparently certain populations had done so for ages, once upon a time.  By high fat, I mean really high fat - the last day I tracked, last Wednesday, I ate over 100g fat though that's kind of my high end.  My BMI is now around 20.)

[nmoira]

SKL, I must admit to being curious just how many fruits and vegetables, organic or not, you can afford on your less than $100/monthly food budget inclusive of near daily eating out.  Here the organic strawberries and carrots you reference on this thread would cost 10% or more of your budget just for a few days worth.  You must possess some grocery wizardry that eludes the rest of us (and I am a stone soup gal who does cook from scratch, glean, grow a few things etc).  Do you get 5-7 daily fruit and veggies servings each?  What is your secret?  

 

 

Maybe I've been doing it wrong all my life.  See, I don't "prepare" carrots or apples (or a lot of other simple foods), I eat them.  Some you have to cook, but really - if someone gets to adulthood/parenthood without knowing how to boil (which I doubt is really that common), we have serious issues that need to be dealt with. 

 

 

 

OK. Carrots and apples. Either raw or boiled. What else?

[Murphy101]

If I'm making my own salad, I don't use salad dressing at all.  If I'm buying, I try to get the dressing on the side so I can use it sparingly if at all.  This is another "choice" that anyone can make if motivated to.  I don't believe it's going to make anyone fat or skinny by itself, but it's the whole mindset.  Everything doesn't have to taste "fun" all the time.  I like my food to taste like the actual ingredients.

 

Huh? I don't think food has to be fun, not sure what that means. But I do think food has to taste good. I cannot stand plain salad. I'm fine with just some lemon juice or a vinegrette. But I'd rather not eat it than eat it dry.

 

And that's one of the problems wi many supposed health food plans. It tosses foods and recipes at people that many people on low incomes have never bought before and have no idea how to prepare. I have spent a considerable amount of time and research learning those things that a single gal with kids and 2 jobs just isn't going to make her priority to do list. And that's not even getting into how much time I spend in the kitchen. I can have food for 12 on the table in 40-60 minutes. But it takes a lot of planning and experience to make that happen.

[PeacefulChaos]

Maybe I've been doing it wrong all my life.  See, I don't "prepare" carrots or apples (or a lot of other simple foods), I eat them.  Some you have to cook, but really - if someone gets to adulthood/parenthood without knowing how to boil (which I doubt is really that common), we have serious issues that need to be dealt with.  Maybe folks should have to take a basic cooking course (or test out of it) in order to qualify for food stamps or something.  If you don't know how to boil veggies, no amount of money is going to solve your problem.  As for the storage issue, I'm not buying it.  The 30+% of people who are obese are not obese because they do not have refrigerators.  I'll bet they keep their pop and beer cold enough.

 

 

 

Ok, this is going to sound TOTALLY snarky, but I promise it isn't. 

 

Is that how you cook fresh veggies?  Boil them?  

 

Because I am one of those people who honestly doesn't know.  :lol:  

 

I could probably manage carrots - I would just put them in a roast or something.  I only like carrots when they're cooked.  

Fruit is easy - just eat it.  

But, like, green beans and stuff... I don't know what to do with that.  I had to look up recipes for it.  Which, granted, isn't hard, but it's still a fact.  I'm not stupid or ignorant or any of those things.  I was just raised by my grandparents, and never learned how to cook (I STILL won't buy raw potatoes because they have to be peeled, which takes me about an hour.  For potatoes for my family.  No way, not wasting that much time!  :lol: ... I also never learned how to clean the house beyond the basics - but that's a whole other story lol) and ate out probably 3-4 times per week for my teenage years.  

Now, my grandparents have a garden because they enjoy it, and I do reap the benefits.  We get canned green beans from them, as well as apple butter, applesauce, salsa, and jelly.  They have done carrots in the past but they didn't do great last year because of the weather.  They do other stuff, too, but we live 17 hours from them so we just get the canned stuff.  

[twoxcell]

 

We seem to rehash this "cost of veggies" argument rather often.  Veggies aren't that expensive.  At least, the ones I eat and feed my kids are not.  Nor are most of the fruits people commonly eat.  I don't believe it's the availability of these foods that causes obesity, but the priority people put on them as they spend their money (regardless of where the money came from).  It isn't PC to say it, but the fact is that way too many of "poor" families' dollars go to junk that shouldn't even be remotely thought of as food.  Things that are not cheap.  Things my family simply does not eat/drink except on rare occasions.  I do not know why these choices are made, but it's not because these folks are starving and can't find a bag of carrots/apples/beans anywhere.  I can be standing behind these people in the same grocery store where I buy my own food.  So obviously access is not the issue.  My per person grocery bill is smaller, so it isn't about cost.  Maybe they simply don't like veggies, or maybe they're addicted to chips, or maybe they just aren't thinking in the long term.  Giving them more money would not stop them from buying the junk food.  I'm pretty confident that if you did a study on this, you'd find me correct.

I agree with this. Healthy foods i.e. fruits/veggies/beans/rice(not instant)/eggs, etc. are much cheaper than junk food. Especially in the summer. In fact cooking from scratch with real foods is always cheaper than prepackaged junk. I really do not think it is the cost so much as lack of skills, people being too busy and/or lazy, and people being used to eating junk.

[Scarlett]

P.S. As a matter of fact, I'm considering doing a stakeout at the two place I just mentioned for a few hours and actually tallying what I visually identify coming and going from these stores. Maybe have a chart that states "Thin or Fit, So-So and Clearly Obese" Just to see how my anecdotal observation measures against a physical number.

 

 

Ha.  This sounds interesting.  Sounds like something I would do.

[nmoira]

In fact cooking from scratch with real foods is always cheaper than prepackaged junk.

 

Depends which pre-packaged junk you're talking about. There's a reason why many college kids subsist on ramen noodles and Kraft Dinner (or the generic equivalent).

[twoxcell]

 

But, like, green beans and stuff... I don't know what to do with that.  I had to look up recipes for it.  Which, granted, isn't hard, but it's still a fact.  I'm not stupid or ignorant or any of those things.  I was just raised by my grandparents, and never learned how to cook (I STILL won't buy raw potatoes because they have to be peeled, which takes me about an hour.  For potatoes for my family.  No way, not wasting that much time!   :lol: ... I also never learned how to clean the house beyond the basics - but that's a whole other story lol) and ate out probably 3-4 times per week for my teenage years.

Yep it really is that easy you can boil, steam, or saute your frozen veggies(I just heat up my iron skillet with a bit of olive oil drop in the frozen green beans or stir fry blend and cook on medium heat until hot stirring occasionally with a spatula. Then add salt to taste. :) They taste so much better than canned in my opinion. Costco sells hug bags of frozen organic veggies for like 6 dollars a bag. I want to know how you are peeling your potatoes that takes an hour. :lol: I make my dh do it and it is pretty fast. I do it some of the time too and it has never taken me an hour. ;)

[OH_Homeschooler]

If I'm making my own salad, I don't use salad dressing at all.  If I'm buying, I try to get the dressing on the side so I can use it sparingly if at all.  This is another "choice" that anyone can make if motivated to.  I don't believe it's going to make anyone fat or skinny by itself, but it's the whole mindset.  Everything doesn't have to taste "fun" all the time.  I like my food to taste like the actual ingredients

 

But you are just making so many assumptions about what people actually know!

 

Yes, a person can make the choice not to add fatty dressing to a salad, but they'd have to know how fattening salad dressing really can be. Many people just don't know. They feel virtuous just eating the salad, not KNOWING that with full-fat Ranch dressing they would have been better off ordering the Quarter Pounder with cheese. Seriously, it's a very profound lack of knowledge that I don't think you can even begin to comprehend. 

 

And when people think they're doing the right thing, but not seeing results, they're just more likely to throw up their hands in protest and go back to eating whatever they really want.  

[SKL]

SKL, I must admit to being curious just how many fruits and vegetables, organic or not, you can afford on your less than $100/monthly food budget inclusive of near daily eating out.  Here the organic strawberries and carrots you reference on this thread would cost 10% or more of your budget just for a few days worth.  You must possess some grocery wizardry that eludes the rest of us (and I am a stone soup gal who does cook from scratch, glean, grow a few things etc).  Do you get 5-7 daily fruit and veggies servings each?  What is your secret?  

 

Note I said $100/person/month, not $100 total/month. 

 

I don't buy meat (grocery) except max 1 day per week.  We eat eggs, cheese, and beans, which are pretty cost-effective sources of satisfying protein.  The only beverages I buy are milk and yogurt; we usually drink water.  I buy simple stuff that can be eaten whole/raw/dry.  We share.  I try very hard not to throw any food in the garbage.  We don't graze and all snacks are chosen because they contribute to our daily nutrition.  One day per week, my sister cooks a meal that provides leftovers for at least 2 more meals.  No, we don't always eat 5-7 fruits/veggies per day, but I think that is overkill.  My kids would waste it if I tried serving that much.  We feel satisfied and are healthy on less, possibly because organics are more nutritious/satisfying.   We rarely do desserts.  Basically that's it.  No frills.  Food is for nutrition - I'm a "eat to live" person.  It probably helps that I live in an area with a relatively reasonable cost of living.

 

[PeacefulChaos]

Yep it really is that easy you can boil, steam, or saute your frozen veggies(I just heat up my iron skillet with a bit of olive oil drop in the frozen green beans or stir fry blend and cook on medium heat until hot stirring occasionally with a spatula. Then add salt to taste. :) They taste so much better than canned in my opinion. Costco sells hug bags of frozen organic veggies for like 6 dollars a bag. I want to know how you are peeling your potatoes that takes an hour. :lol: I make my dh do it and it is pretty fast. I do it some of the time too and it has never taken me an hour. ;)

 

I'm just awful at it!  :lol:  

I've done it with a knife, but I cut myself all to pieces.  I'm seriously like a kid lol...

So I use a potato peeler, and I even cut myself with that.  :rolleyes:  

It's ridiculous.  

I will say, I have gotten better about a LOT of things since we got married 12 years ago.  At that time, I thought Hamburger Helper was an acceptable 'homecooked meal'.  

Yeah, we ordered a lot of Papa John's pizza in those days.  :rofl:

[Murphy101]

Honestly though, carrots and apples are not the healthiest of the veggies/fruits in the world. They aren't unhealthy, but there are so many other veggies that I think people need to be eating that pack a lot more health punch.

 

So you pull the dirty carrot out of the bag and just munch away?

 

I'm sure you don't.

Ahem.

*cough*

I do.

 

It's one of the reasons I try to remember to rinse all my produce when I buy it instead of only before I serve it. Because several of us do just reach a hand into the produce bag or bowl and munch away. We call any residual contaminates a "mini inoculation". ;p *blush*

 

I can't remember what size family SKL has. I have 12 here. Once a week we buy at least:

 

*15lbs ea of bananas and apples

4 pts blueberries and strawberries

3-4 lb of lemons

5-6 avocados

*3-5 lbs onions

*Celery

Cilantro (nothing beats fresh cilantro and my stupid plants of it died :( )

*Cucumbers

2-3 Broccoli

2 Cauliflower

*2 -4 lbs Carrots

*3-5 bell peppers (again, my stupid plant died)

5-8lbs sweet potatoes

2 pints of mushrooms

 

Plus pending price and quality

We will buy plums, jicama, butternut squash, spaghetti squash, nectarines, melons, zucchini...

 

The only item that has to be organic is the bananas. The taste of organic is so far superior that now we know why no one ate the others!

 

Before I decided food was a valid "waste" of our limited funds, the * items are the only ones I would have bought and I doubt I would have even bought half of that amount. And God forbid something not be used and go to seed or rot bc I get really upset about it. I wouldn't have risked the chance of it going bad 12 years ago. I wouldn't have bought it at all rather than risk that something would conflict with our schedule and cause that meal for it not to be made before it went bad.

[Parrothead]

Ok, this is going to sound TOTALLY snarky, but I promise it isn't.

 

Is that how you cook fresh veggies? Boil them?

 

Because I am one of those people who honestly doesn't know. :lol:

 

I could probably manage carrots - I would just put them in a roast or something. I only like carrots when they're cooked.

Fruit is easy - just eat it.

But, like, green beans and stuff... I don't know what to do with that. I had to look up recipes for it. Which, granted, isn't hard, but it's still a fact. I'm not stupid or ignorant or any of those things. I was just raised by my grandparents, and never learned how to cook (I STILL won't buy raw potatoes because they have to be peeled, which takes me about an hour. For potatoes for my family. No way, not wasting that much time! :lol: ... I also never learned how to clean the house beyond the basics - but that's a whole other story lol) and ate out probably 3-4 times per week for my teenage years.

Now, my grandparents have a garden because they enjoy it, and I do reap the benefits. We get canned green beans from them, as well as apple butter, applesauce, salsa, and jelly. They have done carrots in the past but they didn't do great last year because of the weather. They do other stuff, too, but we live 17 hours from them so we just get the canned stuff.

Veggies can be steamed, boiled, roasted, grilled and eaten raw. If you have a steamer pot to go over a rather large pot of water you can boil washed cubed and unpeeled potatoes, put the steamer on top and add the green beans. Put a lid on that. When the potatoes are done mash them and salt the green beans. I have pretty bad osteoarthritis and haven't peeled a potato in a decade or more.

[twoxcell]

 

Depends which pre-packaged junk you're talking about. There's a reason why many college kids subsist on ramen noodles and Kraft Dinner (or the generic equivalent).

I'll give you that but crackers, cookies, donuts, cereals, frozen pizzas, tv dinners, pre-made burritos, breaded chickens, anything from the bakery section, ice cream, pop, chips, pre made meal items, etc. Are not cheap compared to basic real food ingredients. Now meat and cheese(They are still cheaper in the non premade form) are fairly spendy but I only cook meat once pre day and not in large portions.

[wapiti]

But you are just making so many assumptions about what people actually know!

 

Yes, a person can make the choice not to add fatty dressing to a salad, but they'd have to know how fattening salad dressing really can be. Many people just don't know. They feel virtuous just eating the salad, not KNOWING that with full-fat Ranch dressing they would have been better off ordering the Quarter Pounder with cheese. Seriously, it's a very profound lack of knowledge that I don't think you can even begin to comprehend. 

 

FWIW, for me as an individual, and for a surprising number of others, the fat is NOT the problem at all.  It's the carbs that are "fattening" though indeed there can be carbs in store-bought dressing.  I stick to olive oil and a smitch of vinegar.  (It is true that a person eating too much of both carbs and fat will find trouble with weight.  But for one over the other, oftentimes it's a carb issue, not a fat one, in spite of the national campaign against fat over the last few decades.  It is not a simple matter to explain, unfortunately...)

[PeacefulChaos]

Veggies can be steamed, boiled, roasted, grilled and eaten raw. If you have a steamer pot to go over a rather large pot of water you can boil washed cubed and unpeeled potatoes, put the steamer on top and add the green beans. Put a lid on that. When the potatoes are done mash them and salt the green beans. I have pretty bad osteoarthritis and haven't peeled a potato in a decade or more.

 

I've heard of these steamers you speak of.... 

Methinks I need to find one.  Does pampered chef sell anything like that?  

 

 

:lol: :lol:  at my own cluelessness... 

This is why we eat stir fry every day.  :D

[LucyStoner]

I probably spend $40-45 alone on the cheapest organic apples each month and I live in WASHINGTON STATE, the apple capital of the nation where we grow literally 1/2 of the apples in the entire country.  That's nearly all eaten by my 2 sons and not us adults (I have braces, raw apples and me are not friends).  I do not have a big family.  

 

SKL, your math just doesn't add up.  

[nmoira]

5-8lbs sweet potatoes

 

 

I know a lot of low carbers shun these, but when talking about nutritious bang for the buck it's hard to beat a sweet potato.

[SKL]

Honestly though, carrots and apples are not the healthiest of the veggies/fruits in the world.  They aren't unhealthy, but there are so many other veggies that I think people need to be eating that pack a lot more health punch. 

 

So you pull the dirty carrot out of the bag and just munch away? 

 

I'm sure you don't. 

 

You mean you don't eat carrots out of the bag?  I personally buy "baby carrots" already peeled (still quite cheap), but as a youngster I always ate whole carrots out of the bag, after a little rinse.  Shoot, I don't even wash apples.

 

I'm 46 and if simple foods were going to make me (or my kids) fat or sick, I'd know it by now.  All things in moderation.  (I used carrots and apples for examples, but we do eat other convenient produce too.  Grapes, berries, bananas, pears, oranges, leaves, cucumbers, tomatoes - I do try for some variety.  :) )

[nmoira]

I've heard of these steamers you speak of.... 

Methinks I need to find one.  Does pampered chef sell anything like that?  

 

If you want something self contained, get a cheap rice cooker *with* a steamer basket.

 

Like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Aroma-ARC-743-1NG-Uncooked-Cooked-Steamer/dp/B0055FSN3Q/

[OH_Homeschooler]

Yep it really is that easy you can boil, steam, or saute your frozen veggies(I just heat up my iron skillet with a bit of olive oil drop in the frozen green beans or stir fry blend and cook on medium heat until hot stirring occasionally with a spatula. Then add salt to taste. :) They taste so much better than canned in my opinion. Costco sells hug bags of frozen organic veggies for like 6 dollars a bag. I want to know how you are peeling your potatoes that takes an hour. :lol: I make my dh do it and it is pretty fast. I do it some of the time too and it has never taken me an hour. ;)

 

 

But...aren't frozen veggies from Costco prepackaged? Didn't you just post something about pre-packaged junk being more expensive than "real" foods? Oh right, you did:

 

 

 

I agree with this. Healthy foods i.e. fruits/veggies/beans/rice(not instant)/eggs, etc. are much cheaper than junk food. Especially in the summer. In fact cooking from scratch with real foods is always cheaper than prepackaged junk. I really do not think it is the cost so much as lack of skills, people being too busy and/or lazy, and people being used to eating junk.

 

 

So which foods are considered prepackaged junk? Who makes that determination? If you don't have a lot of money and have to feed a lot of people, and the frozen veggies are sitting there in the freezer case and the pizzas are right next to them and you have $5 to spend and you can get a whole bunch more pizza that you know your family will actually eat, versus the frozen broccoli which could be a good side for the 2 people who would eat it...for that amount of money, why not get the pizza? 

 

(I personally love frozen vegetables and use them all the time, but this is the reality so many people face).

[Murphy101]

I know a lot of low carbers shun these, but when talking about nutritious bang for the buck it's hard to beat a sweet potato.

Which is why I refuse to low carb. Granted whole30 weeds out the worst sources of carbs, but it is not necessarily low carb.

 

Oh and beet. I'm a sucker for beets. Yummmm.

[nmoira]

Um..no I live in the apple capital of the world!

 

LOL

 

(just pulling your leg, but apples are one of the few things that grow well around here)

 

The Empires that grow out here. are. not. good.

 

I miss Empires. But that's it.

[twoxcell]

 

I'm just awful at it!   :lol:

I've done it with a knife, but I cut myself all to pieces.  I'm seriously like a kid lol...

So I use a potato peeler, and I even cut myself with that.   :rolleyes:

It's ridiculous.  

I will say, I have gotten better about a LOT of things since we got married 12 years ago.  At that time, I thought Hamburger Helper was an acceptable 'homecooked meal'.  

Yeah, we ordered a lot of Papa John's pizza in those days.   :rofl:

Well at least you are improving and growing. lol :lol:  Don't you have any kids or a husband you can make peel? It sounds like you need a new peeler. You could also buy the small red, yellow, purple potatoes and just cook them whole. I'll admit that I only buy the organic veggies if they are cheaper or equivalent to the non organic. I'd rather my kids have more veggies than just a couple organic. Our local grocery store has cheap produce most of the time I have never paid over 1 dollar a pound for apples and usually between 50cents and 1 dollar. I can't imagine fresh green beans costing 5 dollars a pound in the summer that is nuts. 

 

This thread is moving too fast for me I can't keep up. :willy_nilly:

[nmoira]

Which is why I refuse to low carb. Granted whole30 weeds out the worst sources of carbs, but it is not necessarily low carb.

 

Oh and beet. I'm a sucker for beets. Yummmm.

 

I can't "like" this because you mentioned beets. My nemeses. *shudder*

[OH_Homeschooler]

FWIW, for me as an individual, and for a surprising number of others, the fat is NOT the problem at all.  It's the carbs that are "fattening" though indeed there can be carbs in store-bought dressing.  I stick to olive oil and a smitch of vinegar.  (It is true that a person eating too much of both carbs and fat will find trouble with weight.  But for one over the other, oftentimes it's a carb issue, not a fat one, in spite of the national campaign against fat over the last few decades.  It is not a simple matter to explain, unfortunately...)

 

Right, that's just the first thing that popped into my head. Dressings really can have a lot of fat in them but I know there are other components that cause problems. For me, fat is an issue. But the main point I was trying to make is that some people just don't make the connection between dumping salad dressing on their salads and an inability to lose weight so it's hard to say that people are making a deliberate choice against a healthier alternative (SKL's argument), when they honestly have never thought it was an unhealthy choice in the first place. 

 

I've replaced many carbs in my diet and that's been helpful too. Trust me, I know all about low-carb diets so please don't apologize for a lack of explanation.   :)

[SKL]

I probably spend $40-45 alone on the cheapest organic apples each month and I live in WASHINGTON STATE, the apple capital of the nation where we grow literally 1/2 of the apples in the entire country.  That's nearly all what is eaten by my 2 sons.  I do not have a big family.  

 

SKL, your math just doesn't add up.  

 

Calling me a liar without any evidence?  Not very nice.  Maybe apples cost more where you live.  Maybe you guys eat more than we do.

[LucyStoner]

Note I said $100/person/month, not $100 total/month. 

 

I don't buy meat (grocery) except max 1 day per week.  We eat eggs, cheese, and beans, which are pretty cost-effective sources of satisfying protein.  The only beverages I buy are milk and yogurt; we usually drink water.  I buy simple stuff that can be eaten whole/raw/dry.  We share.  I try very hard not to throw any food in the garbage.  We don't graze and all snacks are chosen because they contribute to our daily nutrition.  One day per week, my sister cooks a meal that provides leftovers for at least 2 more meals.  No, we don't always eat 5-7 fruits/veggies per day, but I think that is overkill.  My kids would waste it if I tried serving that much.  We feel satisfied and are healthy on less, possibly because organics are more nutritious/satisfying.   We rarely do desserts.  Basically that's it.  No frills.  Food is for nutrition - I'm a "eat to live" person.  It probably helps that I live in an area with a relatively reasonable cost of living.

 

 

Thanks I got that per person thing.  Your numbers don't work for me but whatever.  

 

I find 8-12 servings daily to be where we have to get to feel best.  So to each their own.  My kids are extremely healthy. 

 

Your menu in my area is not less than $100 per person per month with your daily eating (yes, even cheaply and sharing) out.  

[twoxcell]

 

So which foods are considered prepackaged junk? Who makes that determination? If you don't have a lot of money and have to feed a lot of people, and the frozen veggies are sitting there in the freezer case and the pizzas are right next to them and you have $5 to spend and you can get a whole bunch more pizza that you know your family will actually eat, versus the frozen broccoli which could be a good side for the 2 people who would eat it...for that amount of money, why not get the pizza? 

 

(I personally love frozen vegetables and use them all the time, but this is the reality so many people face).

Frozen veggies are not prepackaged junk they are vegetables frozen and put in a bag. :confused1:  What I mean by prepackaged junk is stuff with ingredient list so long and words you can't pronounce. Things with high sodium, high sugar, HFCS, loads of carbs, etc. I wasn't saying that to be high and mighty my family eats prepackaged junk on occasion. Sometimes you just need something fast and prepackaged junk from the grocery store is cheaper than fast food. Of course for feeding a large group or a party I buy those things too. Especially when I don't have time to cook. What I was really talking about is people who say poor people can't afford healthy food at all. Filling your cart with stacks of junk food is not necessarily cheaper that is what I was trying to say. ;)

[SKL]

But...aren't frozen veggies from Costco prepackaged? Didn't you just post something about pre-packaged junk being more expensive than "real" foods? Oh right, you did:

 

 

 

 

So which foods are considered prepackaged junk? Who makes that determination? If you don't have a lot of money and have to feed a lot of people, and the frozen veggies are sitting there in the freezer case and the pizzas are right next to them and you have $5 to spend and you can get a whole bunch more pizza that you know your family will actually eat, versus the frozen broccoli which could be a good side for the 2 people who would eat it...for that amount of money, why not get the pizza? 

 

(I personally love frozen vegetables and use them all the time, but this is the reality so many people face).

 

Frozen veggies are often superior to fresh.  Check it out.  Just because they are in a sealed bag does not make them junk.  We hardly ever eat them these days, but if we did I would not be ashamed.

 

[Murphy101]

I can buy cake mix, pototo flakes, bread, crackers, canned veggies and fruit all way way cheaper than fresh or making it myself. The there's the stuff I simply can't make myself like milk, eggs, cheese, and meats. Well I can and do make milk for one human's consumption. But I'm no dairy cow. Anymore anyways.

 

Now I think canned carrots are healthier than candy, simply bc candy is inherently unhealthy, but that doesn't mean the canned carrots are particularly healthy when compared to say a sweet potato or even steamed fresh carrots.

 

So part of the health vs junk food problem is that just about anything is healthier than crap.

 

The biggest reason unhealthy people eat unhealthy is because maybe 10% of the store is actually real food and the other 90% is a mix of faux food and junk. It's is crazy frustrating to have a limited budget and even more limited time and learn that only 10% of the store is actually good for you to eat. It can feel overwhelming and futile.

 

FYI, it takes me a visit to 4 different stores to buy our groceries.

[OH_Homeschooler]

Frozen veggies are often superior to fresh.  Check it out.  Just because they are in a sealed bag does not make them junk.  We hardly ever eat them these days, but if we did I would not be ashamed.

 

 

Thanks, I do not need to check it out as I do use them frequently as I said in my post. ;)

 

I was just making a point about how even good foods are pre-packaged, so it's probably a good idea to avoid telling people to choose fresh fruits and veggies (straight from the garden, ideally) because they're so much better and cheaper. 

 

Because they're not. 

[twoxcell]

 

If you want something self contained, get a cheap rice cooker *with* a steamer basket.

I love my rice cooker and use it all of the time! :)

 

Just wanted to add I'm not against things that are prepackaged I was referring to junk food. lol Also I don't care who gets to determine it I'm pretty sure that most everyone here knows what junk food is. I see people all the time with their carts stacked full of junk and no healthy things mixed in at all.

[SKL]

So if you weighed 300 pounds you wouldn't at least consider the possibility that something in your diet isn't quite right?  Maybe do a little internet reading at the library, or ask someone you trust?  I mean, it wouldn't occur to you that that might be a good idea?  At some point an adult who has received many years of free public education can be expected to take some responsibility.  If they don't, then it's on them IMO.  Eating whatever you want is a valid choice, but at some point you have to own the consequences.

[Murphy101]

Frozen veggies are often superior to fresh. Check it out. Just because they are in a sealed bag does not make them junk. We hardly ever eat them these days, but if we did I would not be ashamed.

 

I think just like anything else - it depends.

 

Frozen sweet potatoes for example are almost never just sweet potatoes. They almost always add sugar. Wth they do that I have no idea bc to me the word sweet in sweet potatoe means it doesn't need added sugar, but alas, thats not what I see at the grocery store. Our local wackomart didn't have plain frozen broccoli florets last time I looked. They were all "seasoned". Mostly with faux butter and sugar.

 

I prefer:

Fresh

Frozen

Canned

 

In that order. Partly bc frozen also requires a freezer to store it in and the freezer compartment of most refrigerators does not hold very much at all. For years we didn't have an ice maker bc I didn't want to give up the freezer space. A few years ago we had to get a new frig and we were all in awe and felt we had really moved up the social ladder bc it came with an icemaker. LOL

[OH_Homeschooler]

I love my rice cooker and use it all of the time! :)

 

Just wanted to add I'm not against things that are prepackaged I was referring to junk food. lol Also I don't care who gets to determine it I'm pretty sure that most everyone here knows what junk food is. I see people all the time with their carts stacked full of junk and no healthy things mixed in at all.

 

Yes, I would agree that people here know what junk food is. I think most of us here are also more well-educated and have additional advantages over many other people in this country.

 

A lot of fat people simply don't know the difference. A lot of poor people might, but they don't always have the option of buying healthy food. As I said in my earlier post, if you have $5 and need to feed your family and fill them up with something substantial, you'll do a lot better buying frozen pizza than frozen cauliflower. It's junk, but your kids won't be hungry an hour after eating it. And to some people, they might think junk food is just stuff like candy and chips, but they wouldn't consider pizza junk food. 

[OH_Homeschooler]

So if you weighed 300 pounds you wouldn't at least consider the possibility that something in your diet isn't quite right?  Maybe do a little internet reading at the library, or ask someone you trust?  I mean, it wouldn't occur to you that that might be a good idea?  At some point an adult who has received many years of free public education can be expected to take some responsibility.  If they don't, then it's on them IMO.  Eating whatever you want is a valid choice, but at some point you have to own the consequences.

 

How would they know which part of their diet needs to change? Maybe they think changing to salad is a great idea...so they do that and as I said earlier have no idea that could be a worse choice than a small burger. And yes the library is a free resource and it's great but many of these same people are the ones who work long, hard hours and just don't have the option of getting to the library when it's open. And they sure as heck can't afford the Internet at home. 

 

I wonder how nice it is to live in your head, where just because you've always had certain things available to you, that must mean everyone else has too. 

[OH_Homeschooler]

Oh...but I do know how to make a cauliflower crust pizza!

 

I've seen that recipe. Is it any good?

[Scarlett]

Well at least you are improving and growing. lol :lol:  Don't you have any kids or a husband you can make peel? It sounds like you need a new peeler. You could also buy the small red, yellow, purple potatoes and just cook them whole. I'll admit that I only buy the organic veggies if they are cheaper or equivalent to the non organic. I'd rather my kids have more veggies than just a couple organic. Our local grocery store has cheap produce most of the time I have never paid over 1 dollar a pound for apples and usually between 50cents and 1 dollar. I can't imagine fresh green beans costing 5 dollars a pound in the summer that is nuts. 

 

This thread is moving too fast for me I can't keep up. :willy_nilly:

 

It is funny for me to think of people not being able to peel potatoes.  I can peel enough for my family of 4 (2 big boys and one big man) in about 10 min.  Of course then I fry them because they are just yummy that way.

[Guest]

But you are just making so many assumptions about what people actually know!

 

Yes, a person can make the choice not to add fatty dressing to a salad, but they'd have to know how fattening salad dressing really can be. Many people just don't know. They feel virtuous just eating the salad, not KNOWING that with full-fat Ranch dressing they would have been better off ordering the Quarter Pounder with cheese. Seriously, it's a very profound lack of knowledge that I don't think you can even begin to comprehend. 

 

And when people think they're doing the right thing, but not seeing results, they're just more likely to throw up their hands in protest and go back to eating whatever they really want.

Eh. In some cases, I do believe they simply don't know. Many other times, I think they are blind to their own actions. I remember watching a TV program that interviewed a man who was a counselor at a facility for very morbidly obese people. He said he had to explain to a client that it was not healthy or normal to eat 20 oranges in a sitting. The man thought, being fruit, it couldn't possibly matter.

 

Earlier in the thread, someone (was it Audrey?) said something that really stuck out: something about how there are infinite resources for finding out healthy meals/under-30-minute meals/how to cook. This is true! Those who want to know find out. When I first moved out, I was SO clueless on how to cook anything of substance. Like I said, we were a LaChoy/Ravioli family. My mother NEVER made veggies that didn't pour out of a can. I remember sheepishly calling my SIL and asking her what you do with a whole chicken to turn it into dinner. I remember it being an amazing revelation to me when my MIL made a stir-fry from different chopped-up veggies and a meat! Eureka! You can make this from scratch?! Seems so silly now, but I was stone-cold ignorant about cooking at first. I learned, however. I am still learning all the time - how to make GF Pizza Crust, how to use a Leek, how to make my own pickles from my home-grown Cukes. And that's another thing: I had no clue how to garden. Or raise chickens. But I found out. I don't know how one could fail to find out...maybe if they are illiterate.. But at least folks now have The Web! I had to get books from the library and ask older women to mentor me! And...Peaceful Chaos, I'm going to give you some veggie recipes, because I'm sad that you are missing out!

[twoxcell]

 

Yes, I would agree that people here know what junk food is. I think most of us here are also more well-educated and have additional advantages over many other people in this country.

 

A lot of fat people simply don't know the difference. A lot of poor people might, but they don't always have the option of buying healthy food. As I said in my earlier post, if you have $5 and need to feed your family and fill them up with something substantial, you'll do a lot better buying frozen pizza than frozen cauliflower. It's junk, but your kids won't be hungry an hour after eating it. And to some people, they might think junk food is just stuff like candy and chips, but they wouldn't consider pizza junk food.

 

I think education is always a good thing, but I'm certain kids hear at school and other programs for the poor what is healthy and what is not but they ignore it. I know I have attended dozens of classes offered by WIC telling parents and kids what is healthy to eat. I'm not sure what the real answer to the problem of education is when people do not listen. I mean how many people know smoking is unhealthy but still do it.(I do understand this is an addiction.) Kids follow the example of their parents more than any class. According to the US we are poor making just above the poverty level for our family size and I think we eat fairly well. I do not claim to be perfect but we have a healthy balance of junk and healthy food going on. If there is such a thing. Food is just so expensive. I feel like we spend about all of our money on food, gas, and bills anymore. I put a lot of effort into trying to feed my family the best I can with the resources I have. :)

[twoxcell]

 

It is funny for me to think of people not being able to peel potatoes.  I can peel enough for my family of 4 (2 big boys and one big man) in about 10 min.  Of course then I fry them because they are just yummy that way.

I love homemade french fries. :drool:  Too bad healthy oil is so expensive so it is an occasional treat.

[Murphy101]

So if you weighed 300 pounds you wouldn't at least consider the possibility that something in your diet isn't quite right? Maybe do a little internet reading at the library, or ask someone you trust? I mean, it wouldn't occur to you that that might be a good idea? At some point an adult who has received many years of free public education can be expected to take some responsibility. If they don't, then it's on them IMO. Eating whatever you want is a valid choice, but at some point you have to own the consequences.

Most people who are 300 pounds have spent a considerable amount of their life trying to change their diet and feel like failures.

 

By most standards, I have always eaten very healthily, even by poor standards.

 

Yet last thanksgiving I found myself horrified by a family photo and got on a scale to discover I was just shy of 200lbs. I did lose a bit of weight just doing No S. I don't know anyone IRL who would have suggested I do something like Whole30. Give up ALL grains, beans, sugars even tho I only had any of them a few times a week? Thats nuts! And one complaint of Whole30 is cost. It IS more expensive to buy a sweet potato than a russet. It IS more expensive to cook with olive or coconut oil than vegetable oil. I doubt that I would have been willing to go into debt or tell my kids they couldnt do band just to buy better food a year ago.

 

The majority of stuff suggested in media and socially is fad stuff that either doesn't work or is temporary.

 

I started whole30 after doing some research online. But even then, I admit I was very nervous and intimidated about it. And I have a VERY supportive Dh. He has never ever made one comment about the cost of the groceries I buy. He will even make me something compliant after I make a pasta dish for the family. <3 but I know lots of people who don't have supportive family. Who have husbands who will eat chocolate cake in front of them knowing they are struggling with sugar withdrawals. Who are fat and have family who isn't and doesn't understand why they can all eat the same and one be fat and one be skinny.

 

I take complete responsibility for my fat ass.

But I'm not so full of hubris as to discount the multitude of luck and blessing that have worked to my benefit either.