Why are we fat? (I mainly mean Americans, but anyone can postulate.)

[Momof3littles]

I don't know about the snacking thing... we have always been grazers here (fruit and nuts mostly-- also veggies, cheese, plain yogurt, homemade treats) and all of us are thin and healthy.  Maybe that's genetic though.

I don't doubt there are people who do well with grazing. But for anyone with insulin issues, it may just result in running up and down the blood sugar and insulin rollercoaster all day. The foods you are mentioning are quite LC. Many people are snacking on "whole grain" goldfish crackers, pretzels, granola bars, sweetened yogurt, higher glycemic fruits, etc. for their snacks. For anyone with insulin resistance issues or a tendency toward that end of the spectrum, that may be an issue.

 

There was a recent study about rethinking the 6 meals vs. 3 meals thing. I don't know how many other recent studies have been done on that, but if you think about the 3 vs. 6 meals thing, it would also seem to possibly tie into some of the interesting research on intermittent fasting. Some studies on IF have indicated it may help people with their lipid levels, their insulin sensitivity, etc.

 

Everyone falls somewhere on the insulin resistant vs. sensitive spectrum. But a lot more people have IR tendencies than most people realize. Many people think it is only an issue if you are overweight or a type 2 diabetic, for example. But add in people with PCOS, people with family history of metabolic syndrome issues, etc. and you start talking about a substantial % of the population.

[msjones]

I'm musing on a couple of points...

 

Snacks when I was a kid (the 70's): I did usually eat when I came home from school. We ate dinner pretty late by most American's standards, so that was a way to tide myself over. They were virtually never healthy by current standards. Most of our meals were not healthy...by any standard. After school snacks were Spaghetti O's or white (Wonder-type) bread with butter and sugar on top (I kid you not!) Sometimes cereal (Cheerios, Rice Crispies, Wheat Puffs, etc.) For beverages, it was Kool-Aid, sometimes whole milk, iced tea (sweet) or water (which we never chose at the time). Or Tang. *blech* Most dinners were LaChoy something, Spam with pineapples (because the pineapples make it healthy?) tacos, spaghetti, frozen dinners, boil-in-a-bag dinners or hotdog casserole. We also had virtually unlimited access to ice cream and my mom kept several 1/2 gallons stocked. Other families had a lot of snacks that we did not usually have; we were kind of poor. (Most of my friends usually had Utz Potato chips, some type of Keebler cookies, soda and Little Debbie/Tastykake snacks.)

 

What is strange is that I don't think anyone I know (save one SIL) feeds their family this way. Although I do know families who eat out a LOT - WAY more often than we do, I don't know of anyone who regularly serves these boxed-mix prepared foods as dinner. Unless they keep it a secret. (After all, someone is buying this junk.)

 

Hmmm...

 

You grew up just like I did!  Although I may have had an even worse diet.  We ate all the sugar cereals -- cocoa pebbles, fruity pebbles, cookie crisp, cap'n crunch -- every day.  We washed the cereal down with Tang.  I ate no bread but white bread, ate gobs of ice cream, tons of chips, and lots of cookies out of boxes and bags.  We ate meat and potatoes and hardly any veggies worth mentioning.  We ate lots of drive-thru burgers and fries.  I had Ding-Dongs and Twinkies all the time, lots of Kool-Aid, lots of popsicles, lots of ice cream sandwiches.

 

My siblings and I were all skinny.  (And we were all adopted so that messes up the genetic argument.)  

 

I know that we swam almost every day, we rode our bikes everywhere, we played outside as often as possible with hordes of neighborhood kids.  No one I knew was on any kind of intense sports team.  And we watched a lot of television.

 

So, why wasn't my family overweight?  (None of us has a weight problem today, either.)

 

I can't say.  

 

Anyone else grow up skinny eating the way I did?

[Mrs Mungo]

I think it is mostly lack of physical work and exercise. I think Americans who have never been out of the country vastly underestimate the amount of walking most people get in an average day in other countries. Germany, France, etc have pedestrian only areas, even in fairly small villages. It's downright dangerous to walk/bike in many places in the US. DH has a friend who bikes to work every day, and he's been hit by cars *three times* in the last two years!

[Rosie_0801]

Not having at least a nature strip (verge?) even if there is no footpath boggles my mind. How do communities get built without them? Why do they get built without them?

[Mergath]

Not having at least a nature strip (verge?) even if there is no footpath boggles my mind. How do communities get built without them? Why do they get built without them?

 

 

I know they have them around here in the parts of town with no sidewalk, mostly out by the big box stores, but they're like swamps, full of water and cattails.  There's no way to use them for walking unless you're planning on wearing hip waders.

[Audrey]

 

I do agree on the ridiculousness of the sports snacks.  We did Saturday morning soccer once.  Parents were rotated in terms of who had (HAD) to bring a snack.  It just wasn't necessary.  I could see having a treat on the last day or once in awhile. 

I agree.  The snacks for every. single. kids. activity is absolutely ridiculous.  I've made it my mission to get unnecessary "mandatory" snacks eliminated from every group in which my kid is involved.  It was just out of control.

 

For 4-H, they hae a monthly meeting and used to have a list for when it was your turn to bring a snack.  The meetings were always at 7pm and last less than an hour.  The kids had just eaten supper!  They didn't need a snack for less than an hour of... SITTING!  :rolleyes:

 

And, in every activity, it's a mommy-war to out-cupcake each other. (It's not necessarily always cupcakes, but they have to out-do each other no matter what.)  For soccer, when we started, practices were at 4-5:30pm.  Pretty much all the kids were going home to supper after that, but oh!  We had to have SNACK!  Which was always someone's asinine interpretation of healthy.  Yeah, carrot cake muffins with cream cheese frosting are NOT healthy just because the box mix has the word carrot on it. :rolleyes:  Or they'll bring veggies and chips with super fattening dip.  It's not healthy and most of the kids don't go for the veggies either.  It's a freakin' joke.  It's only and hour and a half of soccer practice.

 

:rant:

[Guest]

You grew up just like I did!  Although I may have had an even worse diet.  We ate all the sugar cereals -- cocoa pebbles, fruity pebbles, cookie crisp, cap'n crunch -- every day.  We washed the cereal down with Tang.  I ate no bread but white bread, ate gobs of ice cream, tons of chips, and lots of cookies out of boxes and bags.  We ate meat and potatoes and hardly any veggies worth mentioning.  We ate lots of drive-thru burgers and fries.  I had Ding-Dongs and Twinkies all the time, lots of Kool-Aid, lots of popsicles, lots of ice cream sandwiches.

 

My siblings and I were all skinny.  (And we were all adopted so that messes up the genetic argument.)  

 

I know that we swam almost every day, we rode our bikes everywhere, we played outside as often as possible with hordes of neighborhood kids.  No one I knew was on any kind of intense sports team.  And we watched a lot of television.

 

So, why wasn't my family overweight?  (None of us has a weight problem today, either.)

 

I can't say.  

 

Anyone else grow up skinny eating the way I did?

Yes, that is interesting. We were thin, too, although it changed as we grew into adulthood. Now I'm the only one out of the five kids in my family who is thin, though the degree varies with my sibs. Both of my parents are overweight; my mother by a lot, my dad by a smaller margin. My dad has developed diabetes. I think I'm physiologically the most similar to my father...I do NOT want to develop diabetes!!! One of my sisters died at 42 from a kidney infection; she was also diabetic.

[regentrude]

Here's another thought though.  The proportion of US who are Hispanics has been increasing over time (maybe not the last couple years, but over a longer period).  If Hispanics tend to have higher BMIs, that could explain part of the US trend too.

Highly doubt that, seeing all the severely obese Caucasian people in my Midwestern, almost purely white, town.

[Guest]

Not having at least a nature strip (verge?) even if there is no footpath boggles my mind. How do communities get built without them? Why do they get built without them?

 

A lot of areas (like where I live) built up around an at-one-time small country road. The road grows as Urban Sprawl spreads. Then you have a settlement pattern that is linear, not built around a community. Granted, there are lots of communities in this country, complete with bike and/or walking paths that are safe from auto traffic - they exist. I just don't live in one. I was going to give you a Google Maps link to see a settlement pattern like this, but I may not be techy enough to do it.

 

I agree.  The snacks for every. single. kids. activity is absolutely ridiculous.  I've made it my mission to get unnecessary "mandatory" snacks eliminated from every group in which my kid is involved.  It was just out of control.

 

For 4-H, they hae a monthly meeting and used to have a list for when it was your turn to bring a snack.  The meetings were always at 7pm and last less than an hour.  The kids had just eaten supper!  They didn't need a snack for less than an hour of... SITTING!  :rolleyes:

 

And, in every activity, it's a mommy-war to out-cupcake each other. (It's not necessarily always cupcakes, but they have to out-do each other no matter what.)  For soccer, when we started, practices were at 4-5:30pm.  Pretty much all the kids were going home to supper after that, but oh!  We had to have SNACK!  Which was always someone's asinine interpretation of healthy.  Yeah, carrot cake muffins with cream cheese frosting are NOT healthy just because the box mix has the word carrot on it. :rolleyes:  Or they'll bring veggies and chips with super fattening dip.  It's not healthy and most of the kids don't go for the veggies either.  It's a freakin' joke.  It's only and hour and a half of soccer practice.

 

:rant:

Oh, girl! You are Singing. My. Tune! I detest all the mandatory bring-a-snack sign up baloney. I repeatedly bucked it for my son's baseball season. I never did bring a snack but, other than one parent who thoughtfully brought oranges only, I was roundly ignored. Nobody ever replied to the e-mails from the Crazy Lady who was suggesting there is no need to bring all the trash-creating, over-feeding snacks to the baseball games.

[Liz CA]

It is a very complicated subject and there is no one right answer or even a couple of right answers.  What makes me very sad is the thought that someone might look at me and think they have figured out my eating habits, amounts, exercise habits etc. just by looking at my size and shape.  Yes, there might be some generalities but they are not absolute.  

 

True. For some people, it's not the junk food or overeating. Generally though, I think eating on the run has contributed to the weight issue, especially with young people. It seems more are now overweight than normal weight. We live in an area where a lot of East Indians have settled and those young people are slim and trim. My (completely unsubstantiated) guess is, they are still eating home cooked meals and better quality than Burger King.

[SKL]

I seriously doubt that.  Anyone who leaves the house occasionally can see that Americans are, on average, extremely fat.  It's not the immigrants.  

 

Less than a third of Americans are obese.  So I'm not sure what you mean by "on average, extremely fat."  The average American I deal with is not "extremely fat."

 

I am fairly close to many immigrants (Hispanic and other), and many if not most of them are overweight/obese by the time they are mature adults.  Many of them also let their kids eat and veg to the point of obesity.  The only skinny immigrant friends I can think of are a couple of vegetarian housewives.

[LucyStoner]

Less than a third of Americans are obese.  So I'm not sure what you mean by "on average, extremely fat."  The average American I deal with is not "extremely fat."

 

I am fairly close to many immigrants (Hispanic and other), and many if not most of them are overweight/obese by the time they are mature adults.  Many of them also let their kids eat and veg to the point of obesity.  The only skinny immigrant friends I can think of are a couple of vegetarian housewives.

 

Ok, you have me totally scratching my head on this one.  The data suggests that while some immigrant groups are heavier than the average born here American, some are substantially smaller/thinner.  Also, the arrival of American style food in a developing nation is strongly correlated to an increased rate of obesity in that country.   I've even heard it argued that we export obesity. 

[Mergath]

Less than a third of Americans are obese.  So I'm not sure what you mean by "on average, extremely fat."  The average American I deal with is not "extremely fat."

 

I am fairly close to many immigrants (Hispanic and other), and many if not most of them are overweight/obese by the time they are mature adults.  Many of them also let their kids eat and veg to the point of obesity.  The only skinny immigrant friends I can think of are a couple of vegetarian housewives.

 

You might want to recheck your math on that.  According to the CDC, about 36% of adults in the US are obese, and almost 70% are overweight.  18% of all kids ages six to nineteen are obese.  Not overweight.  Obese.

 

Compared to the rest of the world, our country IS just plain fat, though other countries are certainly catching up.  I don't think we do any favors for ourselves by trying to blame it on immigrants.  We need to figure out the problem, not pass the blame to someone else.

[SKL]

You might want to recheck your math on that.  According to the CDC, about 36% of adults in the US are obese, and almost 70% are overweight.  18% of all kids ages six to nineteen are obese.  Not overweight.  Obese.

 

Compared to the rest of the world, our country IS just plain fat, though other countries are certainly catching up.  I don't think we do any favors for ourselves by trying to blame it on immigrants.  We need to figure out the problem, not pass the blame to someone else.

 

First of all, different sources provide different info.  Above in this thread, someone linked a source that said less than 31% of Americans are obese.

 

Second, I have friends who qualify as "obese" who are not "extremely fat."  Not in my definition of "extremely fat," anyway.

 

Third, I didn't say anything about "blame."  I made an observation, that's all.  I did a little research and found that Hispanics rather consistently beat whites on the "fat" scales, and Hispanics are now our largest and most rapidly growing minority.  How that translates to "blame" is beyond me.  Fatness is an individual issue, and it isn't a contagious condition, so . . . .

[nmoira]

Lots of pretty charts here from the CDC:

 

Obesity and Socioeconomic Status in Adults: United States, 2005–2008

 

This is the one that jumped out at me. There has been a significant increase in obesity at all income levels between approx. 1990 and 2008.

 

 

 

[SKL]

From the CDC site (an excerpt of two paragraphs from a longer article):

 

Among blacks in 45 states and DC with sufficient respondents, the prevalence of obesity ranged from 23.0% to 45.1%, with a total of 40 states having an obesity prevalence of ≥30%, including 5 states (Alabama, Maine, Mississippi, Ohio, and Oregon) with a prevalence of ≥ 40%.

 

Among Hispanics in 50 states and DC, the prevalence of obesity ranged from 21.0% to 36.7%, with 11 states having an obesity prevalence of ≥ 30%. Among whites in 50 states and DC, the prevalence of obesity ranged from 9.0% to 30.2%, with only one state (West Virginia) having a prevalence of ≥ 30%; 5 states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, and New Mexico and DC had an obesity prevalence of < 20%.

 

***

 

So this says there is only one state where white Americans have an obesity rate above 30%.  I know nobody said we were only talking about white Americans, but I am pretty sure that's what some of us are talking about when they imply that all they see is fat people everywhere they look.  Not sure why some people have that impression.  The highest prevalence of obesity is among Native Americans / Alaskan natives (a small group), and the next highest I've seen separately reported is non-Hispanic blacks, then Hispanics.  In fact, the differences between the groups is so significant that I'm not sure it's meaningful to discuss US obesity on an overall basis.  When you break it down, is obesity really an issue in your specific population sub-group?  Hmm.

[Mergath]

From the CDC site (an excerpt of two paragraphs from a longer article):

 

Among blacks in 45 states and DC with sufficient respondents, the prevalence of obesity ranged from 23.0% to 45.1%, with a total of 40 states having an obesity prevalence of ≥30%, including 5 states (Alabama, Maine, Mississippi, Ohio, and Oregon) with a prevalence of ≥ 40%.

 

Among Hispanics in 50 states and DC, the prevalence of obesity ranged from 21.0% to 36.7%, with 11 states having an obesity prevalence of ≥ 30%. Among whites in 50 states and DC, the prevalence of obesity ranged from 9.0% to 30.2%, with only one state (West Virginia) having a prevalence of ≥ 30%; 5 states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, and New Mexico and DC had an obesity prevalence of < 20%.

 

***

 

So this says there is only one state where white Americans have an obesity rate above 30%.  I know nobody said we were only talking about white Americans, but I am pretty sure that's what some of us are talking about when they imply that all they see is fat people everywhere they look.  Not sure why some people have that impression.  The highest prevalence of obesity is among Native Americans / Alaskan natives (a small group), and the next highest I've seen separately reported is non-Hispanic blacks, then Hispanics.  In fact, the differences between the groups is so significant that I'm not sure it's meaningful to discuss US obesity on an overall basis.  When you break it down, is obesity really an issue in your specific population sub-group?  Hmm.

 

 

So, the US doesn't have an obesity problem... as long as you only count white people?  :huh:

[SKL]

So, the US doesn't have an obesity problem... as long as you only count white people?  :huh:

 

I knew you were going to make this into a racist thing.  I do not CARE how many people in the US are fat.  White, black, orange, purple, it doesn't matter. 

 

As I've mentioned before, the majority in my household are NOT white.  My daughters happen to be biologically equivalent to the fattest group in the USA (indigenous).  Most adults in this group are obese.  If I'm going to look at group statistics as a parent, this is what I'm going to pay attention to.  If my kids were white, I would not be making parenting decisions based on the prevalence of obesity in blacks.  As for my own butt, I have dealt with it long enough that I don't need to check with the CDC on how to keep fitting in my jeans.  Forgive me if I leave it up to you what you should do about your own butt.

 

[wingedradical]

I think all the thing listed are true, but I think most of all three things:

 

1. We eat too many simple carbs. I am not an Atkins person but the government's emphasis on carbs is a problem.

 

2. I am more concerned about fillers in processed food than I am about GMOs. Not that I like GMOs but I think the current problem has more to do with the fact that Americans eat processed food, at home and in restaurants, and all those foods are created by people whose goal is to get you to buy them. They accomplish this by taking tasteless processed junk and adding enough sugar and salt to reach the "sweet spot" so that you won't notice it is tasteless and processed. I also believe that too much salt and sugar tends to make you not notice more subtle tastes. I never really experimented with spices much before I went to unprocessed food - I mean, if it was Italian, I put Italian seasoning in; if it was Mexican, I put chili powder in. When I gave up processed food, sugar and most wheat, it was like my tongue came alive. I had to buy a new spice carrosel and put the ones that wouldn't fit in that into a drawer. I LOVE messing with spices and herbs now and they have no calories. Same with onions - if I happened to be making a soup from scratch (rare then!) or maybe chili, I'd just chop up the onion and let it be cook as it simmered. I have now discovered that an onion is a wonderful thing if caramelized!

 

3. Finally, I think we are just too rich yet busy to take care with what we eat. 

 

I grew up in the '50's and '60's in a poor intercity culture.TV dinners, convenience stores and McDonald's didn't exist.

 

In our house, if I wanted an afternoon snack after school, I got myself a carrot or a piece of celery (carrots were more filling so I usually got that). We weren't health enthusiasts - we were just poor and veggies were cheap back then. Sometimes in the evenings, we could fix popcorn or have a piece of fruit. But I always had to ask because maybe Mom was saving it for something else. We never had ice cream around the house. Even if we could have afforded it all the time, the tiny freezers we used to have wouldn't have held it along with everything else. We also didn't have soda pop at home. We could buy some with our allowance. But once every summer, always on a Sunday night (maybe because we always had a big Sunday lunch), Mom would buy a half gallon of cheap ice cream and large bottle of cheap Vess Cola and that would be supper for 5.  Mom did also sometimes make homemade popsicle sticks in summer, too.

 

We never got second helping of meat at dinner. We didn't have dessert unless maybe fruits were in season and cheap and we had pie. We did have to eat vegetables and salad (or slaw in winter).

 

In our school lunches, we got a sandwich (ham if mom had found it on sale and froze some) or peanut butter and jelly, some carrots or celery sticks, and a chocolate cupcake from the cheap Jiffy mix without any icing.  When I got married, I served my upper middle class husband cupcakes without icing and they were not well received for some reason.

 

What we didn't have, we didn't miss. But now, advertisements are so prevalent that it is hard. And with money, it's easy.

[Mergath]

I knew you were going to make this into a racist thing.  I do not CARE how many people in the US are fat.  White, black, orange, purple, it doesn't matter. 

 

As I've mentioned before, the majority in my household are NOT white.  My daughters happen to be biologically equivalent to the fattest group in the USA (indigenous).  Most adults in this group are obese.  If I'm going to look at group statistics as a parent, this is what I'm going to pay attention to.  If my kids were white, I would not be making parenting decisions based on the prevalence of obesity in blacks.  As for my own butt, I have dealt with it long enough that I don't need to check with the CDC on how to keep fitting in my jeans.  Forgive me if I leave it up to you what you should do about your own butt.

 

 

Uh, right.  Just to clarify, you're the only one going on about race.

 

And if you don't care about obesity in the US, why would you come into this thread in the first place?

[SKL]

Uh, right.  Just to clarify, you're the only one going on about race.

 

And if you don't care about obesity in the US, why would you come into this thread in the first place?

 

I just made an observation that given the significant differences between the groups (and by the way, Hispanic is not a race), it makes more sense to look at the groups separately than together.  Looking at the groups separately does not mean caring only about whites.  You seem predisposed to assume racism, and that distorts your reading of many things.

 

I only engaged with you because you implied I must be blind if I haven't noticed that the average American is "extremely" fat and that obesity statistics are not impacted by the Mexican-American population.  Amusingly you then recommended that I check my math.  I should have just refrained since these exchanges always end the same way.

[Laura Corin]

Lots of pretty charts here from the CDC:

 

Obesity and Socioeconomic Status in Adults: United States, 2005–2008

 

This is the one that jumped out at me. There has been a significant increase in obesity at all income levels between approx. 1990 and 2008.

 

 

I'd like to see similar charts for the UK.  Because I think that here whilst overweight is common amongst adults in the middle and upper middle classes, obesity is very rare.  And amongst the young, the difference is even more stark.  

 

My first reference is the boys' private school: there are a few plump kids among the 500 pupils, but nothing worrying.  My second is my choir, which is a couple of hundred strong, half of the participants being university students. Almost all are slim.  There is one student who is very large.  So maybe one percent obesity amongst middle/upper middle class students and less than one percent amongst the same class of children, whereas it should be closer to ten percent by national averages.

 

L

[wingedradical]

RE: race

 

Remember that obesity is also a disease  that in this rich country, ironically affects poor people disproportionately. On average, Native Americans, Mexican-Americans and blacks are poorer. And even if they aren't poorer, they often have food preferences in keeping with their culture.

 

Carbs are cheap. Bad fats are cheap. Poor people depend upon them and grow accustomed to them. Thus, they are affected by obesity disproportionately. I am sure there are people of color who allow their kids to pig out and sit on their behinds. There are, by my observation, also many middle class people who do the same. Add to that the fact that so many intercity areas don't have any grocery stores, just fast food restaurants, and you'll know why some places allow the poor to buy McDonald's with food stamps and why poor people have a higher chance of being obese.

 

 

[nd293]

If you're interested in the subject I highly recommend Michael Pollan's In Defense of Food. I think he hits the nail on the head when he says that a large part of the problem with how people eat today is nutritionism - the misguided focus on food as a collection of nutrients, rather than as food with all its embedded cultural associations. That is why people in the US (his focus, although of course the problem is more widespread than that) ricochet from fat is evil to carbohydrates are evil to gluten is evil to dairy is evil while the French (for example) dine away happily and healthily on all of these in their long, sit-down family meal sessions. His summary: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." He defines food, amongst other things, as having less than 5 ingredients, all of which you can identify. This book really helped me to codify healthy eating habits for our family. We've all always been within normal weight ranges, yet eat well, with an emphasis on taste and quality rather than "health". However, after reading the book we eat less take-out food, more vegetables, and have made small switches from low-fat to less processed full fat products, and from store bread with its long list of ingredients (I think it was 14) to Lebanese / pita bread with just 4 ingredients.

[bettyandbob]

We've been over this in past threads, but most people don't know what overweight, obese and morbidly obese look like. So, I think if you say there aren't fat people where you live, you might just not see people as fat when they are. There are a lot of people who you might look at and say they are a bit chubby, who actually fall into the medically obese category. I think we've gotten used to seeing fat people.

 

Another thing that makes it hard for some people to see others as fat is some people carry weight well and in decent fitting clothing don't look terribly fat. I'm at the high end of overweight. Those very active childhood years and high school sports left me with well developed muscles. I workout now. I have noticed that overweight people who have some developed muscle just don't look as fat as another person who has the same percentage of body fat.

 

In high school I was 130. I have a medium to large frame. I was athletic and 5'8". Most of my classmates were thinner. Today, at the same high school I'd be one of the thinner girls.

[Laura Corin]

We've been over this in past threads, but most people don't know what overweight, obese and morbidly obese look like. So, I think if you say there aren't fat people where you live, you might just not see people as fat when they are. There are a lot of people who you might look at and say they are a bit chubby, who actually fall into the medically obese category. I think we've gotten used to seeing fat people.

 

This piece of research might be relevant:

 

 

"People come to think that it is OK to be bigger since those around them are bigger, and this sensibility spreads."

 

L

[Pawz4me]

We've been over this in past threads, but most people don't know what overweight, obese and morbidly obese look like. So, I think if you say there aren't fat people where you live, you might just not see people as fat when they are. There are a lot of people who you might look at and say they are a bit chubby, who actually fall into the medically obese category. I think we've gotten used to seeing fat people.

 

Or it may be that the measurement most often used to define overweight/obesity (BMI) is a very, very flawed measurement.

 

FWIW, my DH recently joined a hospital-operated fitness center.  It's mostly used by older adults or those with some type of chronic health issue, although it's open to anyone over 14.  They are very focused on whole body health, not just building muscle so one looks physically attractive.  A health assessment is done before one can start exercising, BP is taken before/after each exercise session, a certified physical trainer works with each person to develop a detailed individualized program, etc.  They do NOT use BMI.  They view it as a useless, largely meaningless measurement.

[Scarlett]

If you're interested in the subject I highly recommend Michael Pollan's In Defense of Food. I think he hits the nail on the head when he says that a large part of the problem with how people eat today is nutritionism - the misguided focus on food as a collection of nutrients, rather than as food with all its embedded cultural associations. That is why people in the US (his focus, although of course the problem is more widespread than that) ricochet from fat is evil to carbohydrates are evil to gluten is evil to dairy is evil while the French (for example) dine away happily and healthily on all of these in their long, sit-down family meal sessions. His summary: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." He defines food, amongst other things, as having less than 5 ingredients, all of which you can identify. This book really helped me to codify healthy eating habits for our family. We've all always been within normal weight ranges, yet eat well, with an emphasis on taste and quality rather than "health". However, after reading the book we eat less take-out food, more vegetables, and have made small switches from low-fat to less processed full fat products, and from store bread with its long list of ingredients (I think it was 14) to Lebanese / pita bread with just 4 ingredients.

Interesting...goes along with an observation I made recently about all the recipes that come across my fb page. Everything is loaded with butter and cheese and sugar and bacon. I kind of get nauseous looking at some of the pics even though I do enjoy that kind of food as a treat.

 

I live in the south and I do see overweight and obese everywhere. Even in my good friends. I see, from intimate knowledge, that MANY medical problems are caused by the weight. I will admit to just ' not getting it' as to why people don't, can't, won't lose weight. I love food and wine and I am not very active and I am 48 years old and yet I manage to keep my weight down to normal. I have one close friend I love dearly...but an example of how we eat differently was last night at Braums....at 10 pm. .I had a junior scoop on a junior cone. She had a burger fries and milkshake. She is at least 100 pounds over weight. Maybe more.

[kubiac]

Americans are fat because of the interstate highway system.

 

Our people drive too much, and our crummy fake frozen food can be imported from vast distances without "loss of quality," all the way to our microwaves and then our butts. If we walked to the grocery store and cooked real meals, I have to believe things would be different.

[SKL]

Recently I've started using a chiropractor instead of an MD practice to maintain the health of my family.  It occurred to me yesterday that our chiro never does what MD practices always do:  check your height and weight.  And nowadays, give you a long printout of how high your kids' BMI is and what you should do about it.  Hmm.  The chiro's focus is helping our bodies stay naturally healthy.  Healthy is going to mean different things for different people.

[Night Elf]

You grew up just like I did!  Although I may have had an even worse diet.  We ate all the sugar cereals -- cocoa pebbles, fruity pebbles, cookie crisp, cap'n crunch -- every day.  We washed the cereal down with Tang.  I ate no bread but white bread, ate gobs of ice cream, tons of chips, and lots of cookies out of boxes and bags.  We ate meat and potatoes and hardly any veggies worth mentioning.  We ate lots of drive-thru burgers and fries.  I had Ding-Dongs and Twinkies all the time, lots of Kool-Aid, lots of popsicles, lots of ice cream sandwiches.

 

My siblings and I were all skinny.  (And we were all adopted so that messes up the genetic argument.)  

 

I know that we swam almost every day, we rode our bikes everywhere, we played outside as often as possible with hordes of neighborhood kids.  No one I knew was on any kind of intense sports team.  And we watched a lot of television.

 

So, why wasn't my family overweight?  (None of us has a weight problem today, either.)

 

I can't say.  

 

Anyone else grow up skinny eating the way I did?

 

I did. I played outside until I was a teenager and then we didn't "play" anymore. We hung out at friend's houses and did absolutely nothing that could be considered exercise. Well, I take that back. We'd walk to the convenience store and buy candy, sodas, and frozen burritos. I ate what I wanted until my 30s when I started gaining weight. It crept on. I dieted and took it back off. Then it came back and stayed until 2011 when I joined Weight Watchers. Food is so ingrained in me that I still mourn the days I could eat anything I wanted whenever I wanted. I won't ever be able to do that again now.

 

[Parrothead]

I don't think there is any one thing that has contributed to the obesity epidemic. I do think money plays a huge roll in the problem though. All the way from corn subsidies to the economically disadvantages.

 

There is little money in growing produce. Nobody is going to get rich celery farming. But the food industry makes mega bucks with their processed nutrient lacking "foods."

 

Corn farmers are subsidized and grow more corn, so corn is in Every.. Stinking. Thing. If it isn't corn, corn meal, corn starch, or corn syrup it is HFCS.

 

I was reading about canning pie filling and found that the federal government recommends using Clear Jel. Clear Jel is something the government developed, and they push it. http://www.pickyourown.org/ClearJel.htm.

 

They don't have any choice in pushing corn and corn products over traditional items. Theyhave to get rid of all the corn they are paying for.

 

Another place money comes into play is the lack of oversight with GMOs. I think the US is the only 1st world country that does not have some sort of national ban on GMOs. It is all because of the money angle.

 

The government doesn't care about its people. Give them crap to eat, crap entertainment (Kim Kardasian, Naked and Afraid, the Simpson's, etc) and a car to drive them to the fast food joint. The problem is as it has always been. Follow the money.

 

Okay, so I have to change my opening statement. The one thing causing the obesity epidemic is money.

[Mergath]

 If they have money or SNAP they'll buy it at the store rather than put the work in at home. 

 

 

 

To be fair, a lot of the people who receive SNAP don't have yards so there's no way they could garden, no matter how much work they're willing to put in.

[Mothersweets]

Read Fat Chance by Robert Lustig.

 

I second this - Fat Chance:Beating the Odds Against Sugar, Processed Food, Obesity, and Disease by Robert H. Lustig.

[Mergath]

That is a misconception. 

 

What many do is use the community garden concept, and others the patio garden. In my state the local library links the Cornell Co-operative Extension Master Gardeners up with those who are willing to learn; your library may have something similar for your state.

 

It's a misconception that people on SNAP don't own their own homes with yards?  Not in my experience.

[PeacefulChaos]

Regarding SNAP, I don't really understand how the benefits work, because it seems like some people get TONS of food and some get not much with it.  When they buy what they buy, they are just trying to get the most they can for their money, even if it is a bunch of frozen lasagna and lunchables.  

 

And let's stop alluding to the idea that people all need to grow their own food (some people just don't WANT to) or cook all their meals 100% from scratch at home no matter how long it takes (again, some people don't WANT to).  I can cook a healthy enough meal for my family in 30 minutes, but I don't make it 100% from scratch, as in I don't make all my own stuff.  I buy rice, meat, occasionally frozen mixed veggies, etc.  

There's this underlying idea that I'm seeing (and maybe I only notice it because I fit into the category of 'not liking to cook', 'not being a make-everything-from-scratch type homemaker', whatever) that is blaming parents who have no desire whatsoever to work that hard in the kitchen or the garden for kids being overweight.  There are talks about sports snacks and how it's 'just as easy' to take veggies or fruit.... uh, no it isn't.  Sorry.  I'm not going to waste time cutting up a bunch of fruits and vegetables for a bunch of kids who won't eat them anyway.  Not to mention those things also need to be kept cool, etc.  

The snacks for sports don't really bother me all that much - it's once a week, people.  Who cares if the kid gets a sugary snack once a week, a couple of months out of the year?  Idk... I just don't think that sort of thing is a big deal.  We eat well at home so I don't find it necessary to police every last thing that comes near my kids when they have a snack elsewhere.

 

Lastly, I do think there is merit to BMI, though I may be in the minority, Idk.  I know someone had mentioned something about their DD being in a high BMI range, but it has always been my understanding that BMI is completely inaccurate for children, and the doctors treat it as such.  It doesn't really begin to be useful until their bodies are more adult.  That's what every doctor our kids have ever had has said - that BMI really doesn't matter in them.  They don't even mention it to speak of, it just came up once because it popped up automatically on the screen.

 

FWIW, despite not being 100% organic and homegrown, and not spending hours in the kitchen every day, my kids are still not overweight at all.  

[SKL]

Like everything else, growing produce is one choice that some people can make.  There are lots of ways to improve our diets; that's a legitimate one.  What's so controversial about it?  Of course not everyone can do it.  Lots of people at all income levels do and don't have a yard.  I know lots of parents on food stamps who have enough land to garden.  (Most of them choose not to.)  And I know lots of better-off people who lack either the time or the space.  I don't think the pp was suggesting that growing produce at home is "the" answer to American obesity.

 

I have a little bit of yard that can grow stuff - if the deer would leave it alone.  One year we did peas and baby carrots.  The deer ate the peas and the humans ate the carrots.  (We grew the carrots in flower boxes close to the house, so the deer were too scared to approach.)  We still had to buy lots of veggies, and I never did get back out there to plant more goodies in the years since.  We do have mint leaves out there still.  I think.  :)  It's easy to grow stuff like blackberries - which I used to enjoy from behind our garage when I was a kid.  :)  I think it's nice to grow something even if it's only enough for one meal all year, because it gives kids a better sense of what food is.  If you appreciate real food, you're going to eat better.

[PeacefulChaos]

Yes if one is willing to really break their necks with their copious amounts of free time I think they can find a way to get to their community gardens.  But, for example, this year we were told one way to help rescue the gardens from all the rain is to spread hay.  Right.  We have to go out and buy hay.   Which means getting to a place that sells hay, spending money on the hay, and getting the hay to the garden. 

 

It's not as easy as you are making it sound.

 

Sorry, I just can't help but put in my .02 with this...

 

Gardening is HARD.  We had a garden one year.  Everything died.  Not because we didn't take care of it - we did.  But because we have deer go through our yard every night and a groundhog who takes up residence under our back deck.  Between those two things, everything got eaten.

We tried everything that is supposed to keep them away.  Seriously.  Everything I could find on keeping the animals away did.not.work.

So we would have had to go and buy a fence, for a property that doesn't even belong to us.  On top of the $200-$300 that we already dropped just to put the garden there in the first place.  Which yielded nothing.  

I know this isn't everyone's experience, but I'd really appreciate it if it would stop being thrown around as something that is easy or works for everyone.  It doesn't save money, IMO.  I can go buy stuff at the farm stand and spend less than I spent on that garden that year.  

[Murphy101]

Kids or adults?

 

For kids I think it is lack of activity combined with too much junk eating. Some of either usually doesn't do it. But combined it does. And I've heard many a parent of an obese kid say they think s/he is but the truth is s/he isn't at all. The parent is often over weight too and has a skewed perception of what it means to be physically active.

 

For adults?

Same as kids plus age slowing metabolism and some genetics and economics. Are there exceptions? Sure. Most of the time? I don't think so.

 

Why was/am I?

 

I was never really fat until a combo of things hit me in my 30s. Slower metabolism. Body injuries. Finance. (Cheap food is usually less healthy) and genetics caught up to me. Creeped up on me.

 

What has worked so far to change that for me?

A - Tripling or more my physical activity. Did some landscaping. Leveled the yard and out in a pool. Painted 3 rooms. "Play" with kids in pool for several hours daily. Park as far away as I can and walk more. Always take stairs. Walk to mass. Go to ballroom dance lessons with dh when we can make it.

 

B - eating only good foods with rare exceptions. Rate being a couple time a month.

 

C - improved finances. Even debt if necessary. This affords me chiropractic care that permits me to move safely and with much less pain or risk if injury. It affords me lots of fresh veggies and fruits. It affords me the means to plan and make healthier foods (it's possible to do whole30 while working full time. But it's a lot harder.) It affords me the means to be active. I can swim. I can walk my streets safely. I can buy clearance plants to garden. I can research recipes and cost saving means of being healthy on my iPhone. Track my foods on My Fitness Pal.

 

D - being able to see the future in older family members. I can't change genetics but I can do a lot to mitigate it. Seeing how horrid the health is of family members just 10-15 years older than me has always been a huge wake-up call motivator to do my best to not end up that way. For some, they tend to see genetics as a dooms day prophecy. It can be. But for me I don't view it that way. Turning 40 hasn't been a midlife crisis but more of a "better late than never, quit screwing around and putting off bc it does not get easier as you get older" motivator. I still have another 25 pounds to lose.

 

Obviously I'm one person and my experience is just mine. :)

[nmoira]

My neighbor is a professional urban homesteader. I see others working on her gardens far more often than her. She used to give classes but got bored and now she just makes and sells videos. She spent thousands of dollars preparing her yard and building a plumbed canning shed. Her yields are out of this world.

The people I know who *need* to garden do... the chronically unemployed and underemployed don't get such fantastic yields. They don't have the same kind of help. We have a good climate here, but water is very expensive and rainwater collection systems aren't cheap to start. More than one third of the properties in my area are contaminated with lead.

We do have community gardens, most with vegetable stands so people can sell their extra produce. We also have gleaners.

[nmoira]

I dunno how people do it, but I suspect it is like you say.  It takes a lot of work, help, know how, time, up front investment, etc. 

 

And we have it good here other than the occasional cold summer. And there are many successful homesteaders here... but you're right that it does take a *lot* of work.

[LizzyBee]

I read something interesting a few days ago: Weight Watchers started in the 1960s when few Americans were fat. In the years since then, obesity rates have skyrocketed. It makes me wonder if many people are overthinking their weight and food choices and it's backfired. I know for myself, I've never been able to "diet," because it just makes me think about food and then I eat more instead of less. I've been improving the way I eat the past couple of years, but I'm trying to stay focused on creating a healthy lifestyle rather than "dieting."

[fairfarmhand]

Sorry, I just can't help but put in my .02 with this...

 

Gardening is HARD.  We had a garden one year.  Everything died.  Not because we didn't take care of it - we did.  But because we have deer go through our yard every night and a groundhog who takes up residence under our back deck.  Between those two things, everything got eaten.

We tried everything that is supposed to keep them away.  Seriously.  Everything I could find on keeping the animals away did.not.work.

So we would have had to go and buy a fence, for a property that doesn't even belong to us.  On top of the $200-$300 that we already dropped just to put the garden there in the first place.  Which yielded nothing.  

I know this isn't everyone's experience, but I'd really appreciate it if it would stop being thrown around as something that is easy or works for everyone.  It doesn't save money, IMO.  I can go buy stuff at the farm stand and spend less than I spent on that garden that year.  

 

I"ll get on this sideline with you.

 

 

I have a very large garden. It's fenced, but only because we grow it in the pen in which we fatten our beef steers. So the deer leave it alone and the dog keeps the rabbits out. If I could keep the dogs and cats from wrecking things, it would be perfect.

 

But it is massively hard work. Weeding, tilling, planting. Physically, I have come in exhausted and sore from working on the garden. And I am in very good shape. I run 4 miles a day and milk a cow 9 months out of the year. My kids and dh help some, and now I am getting to the time of year that the weeding is lessened. (the plants are full enough to shade out most of them) But I don't know how someone who is not in good shape could keep up with it. My father in law sprays roundup on his garden to keep the weeds down because it physically wears him out to be in it all the time. He could stand to lose a little weight (like 10 lbs or so), but I don't think gardening is the way for him to get the exercise because the bending and reaching are too hard on his 65 yo back and knees.

 

Gardening is not for everyone. I don't think growing veggies in a pot on your porch will make that big of a difference to your health. And for all of the massively obese people that I see in Walmart, I don't think a pot of tomatoes on the porch will really make a difference.

 

Why are we fat?

 

Massive subsidies on grain makes processed junk cheaper than real food.

 

People raised on processed junk have no idea what real food tastes like.

 

People eat out more, not realizing how unhealthy the food served is.

 

We have so many time/energy saving appliances that we don't burn as much energy for the basics of life. I mean to get warmer in the winter, we hit a button. 75 years ago, people had to chop down a tree, whack it into stove wood, stack it in piles, bring it in in the winter, start the fire and keep it going all day. To wash dishes, I stack my dishes and hit a button.  75 years ago, you had to start the stove, haul the water from the well, heat the water, hand wash and dry everything....no wonder they didn't snack much. I wouldn't want to wash more dishes at snack time either!

 

Cars mean that people have to walk less. Our towns and cities are designed for cars. I would never walk my kids to the store even though it is just 3 miles from my house because I'd worry that they would be run over on the way.

 

People are afraid to let their kids play outside for hours. Between kidnapping, pedophiles, tick bourne illnesses, sunburn....it's just "safer" to have your kid indoors more often than not.

[Murphy101]

I can't calorie count worth a dang and I sure as heck am not going to count points and weigh my food before eating it. I think the biggest problem with most diets is they are temporary and or require huge amount of extra effort to maintain. Obviously if you can't do it for life, then you're highly likely to rebound the weight.

 

That's the main reason No S and Whole30 seem to work for those who do it. It's not complicated. It's doable and healthy for life.

 

Whole30 sounds terribly complicated, but I haven't found it to be that way.

[bettyandbob]

So, working poor must come home from physically demanding jobs in hotels and restaurants that pay minimum wage and maintain a garden, after their commute on 2 or three buses. 

 

Community gardens in my area cost money. 

 

Apartment building management doesn't just let people plant on the grounds. Sure some management would let tenants organize a garden, but many would not --citing some liability issue. 

 

I do know some low income people in my area garden, but it is not an option for many. 

[Murphy101]

I don't think a garden will necessarily make people healthier or skinnier. Especially from a calorie perspective. Eat all the salad you want. It's the dressing that's the evil calorie heavy hitter. In 6 months of losing weight, I've come across exactly 2 people who will eat a salad with only salt and lemon juice. (Personally, I think it's fabulous and not a hardship, but most won't even try it.)

 

I have a small garden. Almost no upkeep. I walk out there with my coffee every morning and pick whatever needs picked, and take the net to fish out any bugs and leaves in the pool. In the evening, I turn on the irrigation hose every other day. I have an itty garden bc I think fresh garden stuff tastes better. I don't expect to lose weight with it. Raised bed made out of left over stones on the property, filled with topsoil (which was $) and discounted plants (also $). (Tho I was very happy to learn from a neighbor that food stamps covers the cost of buying plants or seeds for garden foods! Yay! Of course they will still need $ to plant them, but if it helps someone eat better and be more active, I'm all for it.)

 

Now the landscaping and pool were a huge output of energy and to be very honest I was not up to the task alone. I took me and a few teen boys many weeks to finish each. Now all I do is pull weeds as I pass to check the mail and check water twice a week.

 

For me, it's not all necessarily about burning calories. I find it very therapeutic. I'm stepping away from the chaos inside the house. I'm getting some sunshine. I'm maintaining something I enjoy. (vs maintaining laundry or dishes) It's about breaking the habit of eating out of boredom, habit, emotion. Its about not being sedentary. Sure I'm not burning as many calories as someone jogging in a treadmill at the gym. But i cant jog anywhere and it is a significant progress from sitting inside feeling like crap. When I was first trying to lose weight, it also gave me a diversion from eating what I craved. (which is a whole other component. Crappy food is literally ADDICTIVE. Withdrawal is not fun at all.)

 

Now, I'm not saying everyone should do like me. I don't. I'm just saying any improvement is beneficial. Even a small one. And there is more to losing weight than burning calories.

 

And it is not easy. I don't know anyone that thinks it is easy.

 

But for me, the benefits have been well worth it. The least of them being smaller pants.

[SKL]

We seem to rehash this "cost of veggies" argument rather often.  Veggies aren't that expensive.  At least, the ones I eat and feed my kids are not.  Nor are most of the fruits people commonly eat.  I don't believe it's the availability of these foods that causes obesity, but the priority people put on them as they spend their money (regardless of where the money came from).  It isn't PC to say it, but the fact is that way too many of "poor" families' dollars go to junk that shouldn't even be remotely thought of as food.  Things that are not cheap.  Things my family simply does not eat/drink except on rare occasions.  I do not know why these choices are made, but it's not because these folks are starving and can't find a bag of carrots/apples/beans anywhere.  I can be standing behind these people in the same grocery store where I buy my own food.  So obviously access is not the issue.  My per person grocery bill is smaller, so it isn't about cost.  Maybe they simply don't like veggies, or maybe they're addicted to chips, or maybe they just aren't thinking in the long term.  Giving them more money would not stop them from buying the junk food.  I'm pretty confident that if you did a study on this, you'd find me correct.

[Guest]

RE: race

 

Remember that obesity is also a disease  that in this rich country, ironically affects poor people disproportionately. On average, Native Americans, Mexican-Americans and blacks are poorer. And even if they aren't poorer, they often have food preferences in keeping with their culture.

 

Carbs are cheap. Bad fats are cheap. Poor people depend upon them and grow accustomed to them. Thus, they are affected by obesity disproportionately. I am sure there are people of color who allow their kids to pig out and sit on their behinds. There are, by my observation, also many middle class people who do the same. Add to that the fact that so many intercity areas don't have any grocery stores, just fast food restaurants, and you'll know why some places allow the poor to buy McDonald's with food stamps and why poor people have a higher chance of being obese.

Anecdotally speaking, this appears to be true. Occasionally, I swing by a Super Walmart. There is a large population of Latinos in the area; this is evident both from observation and by seeing the products that are sold there. There is also a large population of poorer and/or homeless people. There even used to be a sort of shanty town homeless camp before the Walmart was built. When I go to this Walmart, it is very striking the degree of people - ANY race! - who are at least rather fat, if not quite obese. Every age, every race.

 

When I go to the Harris Teeter in a posh part of town (I nickname it the "Snob Grocery Store") ;), few people - any age, any race - are fat. The wealthier folks in this nice part of town are infrequently fat and rarely severely obese. There is no doubt in my mind that the poorer folks (any race) have NO interest (or money?) to buy the expensive, high-quality foods sold at the Harris Teeter. The Walmart I'm talking about would never stock Fentemans Botanical Beverages or Pinot Grigio Sausage, kwim? It wouldn't be there because there's no market for it. But you can buy all the generic Pop Tarts you want at the Super Walmart. You can even buy one with a Spanish label if you can't read in English.

 

There is no question to me that a LOT of Americans, no matter what race, are overweight or obese. There is no question to me that poorer people are more likely to be fat than the affluent (in the US).

 

 

The best thing I ever did was throw out my scale.  I know, what?!  I just don't buy into driving myself crazy over a number. 

 

And yeah BMI seems even way dumber than that.

I agree that you can cause problems for yourself by being too concerned with "numbers," but I think BMI and lbs. are still a good part of the picture. It does give you a starting point. Clearly, there are plenty of Americans who don't care about their "numbers," but are undeniably fat. It may be that some people score a BMI that doesn't correlate correctly to their actual percentage of body fat, but it's not as though you could be terribly confused about whether or not you have a lot of fat on your body, kwim?

[Parrothead]

I don't think a garden will necessarily make people healthier or skinnier. Especially from a calorie perspective. Eat all the salad you want. It's the dressing that's the evil calorie heavy hitter. In 6 months of losing weight, I've come across exactly 2 people who will eat a salad with only salt and lemon juice. (Personally, I think it's fabulous and not a hardship, but most won't even try it.)

 

Just wanted to pop in and say I'm another, but without the salt. I prefer lemon juice on salad. No calories there.

[Guest]

P.S. As a matter of fact, I'm considering doing a stakeout at the two place I just mentioned for a few hours and actually tallying what I visually identify coming and going from these stores. Maybe have a chart that states "Thin or Fit, So-So and Clearly Obese" Just to see how my anecdotal observation measures against a physical number.