Multivariable calc question

[moki4]

Dd will most likely take multivariable calc w epgy. This is a pass/no credit class. Any dc go this route? I can always give her a grade at the end of the class, but the epgy transcript will state "pass". Wondering if the top schools will dislike this format.

Thanks in advance:)

[snowbeltmom]

Dd will most likely take multivariable calc w epgy. This is a pass/no credit class. Any dc go this route? I can always give her a grade at the end of the class, but the epgy transcript will state "pass". Wondering if the top schools will dislike this format.

Thanks in advance:)

This does not answer your question, but, fwiw, I was thinking about using epgy for multivariable calc, but I received terrible reviews from members on College Confidential for both epgy and cty. After receiving positive reviews, my son will be taking multi with NetMath at the University of Illinois. This class does award college credit, but I am not sure which colleges will accept the credit.

[Kathy in Richmond]

You don't need an outsourced grade for each course, even the advanced ones, to gain admittance into top colleges. My kids studied multivariable calc (and diff eq and linear algebra) at home with no outside grades, and they had no trouble with college acceptances. I did outline their studies briefly in our course descriptions, and both kids had a selection of other outsourced grades, test scores, LORs from outside teachers, and math competition results that corroborated their mommy grades. My guiding principle was always to try to choose courses based on what would result in a good learning match for my kids.

 

My son did get multivariable calc credit upon entering MIT by taking an end-of-course challenge exam during orientation. Dd decided to take the honors version of multivariable at Stanford, which was much, much tougher than her home study (& I'm a tough math mom teacher :-P )

 

As far as Epgy goes, I think it's a shame that they no longer give grades for their courses, but I understand that there were problems with some universities not accepting their credits since they didn't require proctored exams. Dd took some EPGY math in high school (but not multivariable calc,) & it was a bit of a hassle getting her credits transferred to her undergraduate record, even though Epgy's math classes map directly onto Stanford math classes in name and course number and content. It involved something like $40 and six months to get it settled!

 

For dd, the good points of Epgy were the course materials, text, and online learning environment, including quiz questions embedded into the lessons, challenging homework assignments, and fair but difficult tests. She felt that she learned a lot; for example, she learned new material & enjoyed the number theory class even after completing both intro and intermediate number theory with AoPS beforehand. That made it a success in my book. Also, Epgy was more than generous with financial aid, and we appreciated that greatly.

 

The low point of epgy was the human support offered. Dd's assigned tutor was pretty much useless. DD is an independent learner and didn't mind much; she was more interested in finding good math material & didn't care whether the tutor was there for help or not. But...she asked nicely several times about missing homework grades. The tutor failed to keep up with the grading until her father called him to complain, and then only some of it was graded. Very unprofessional! When dd inquired about how the final exam scheduling worked, the tutor explained that she'd have three days to work on it, but w/o consulting with her, he emailed it to her that very day. She had a major dance competition that weekend & would never have chosen to schedule it at that time. But she is stubborn & would not complain, and she took it as a challenge, managing to do both & get her "A" anyway.

[moki4]

Thanks to both of you. I looked at netmath, but couldn't determine if it is synchronous or not? I know about the epgy! It would be great if I could make it work though. Sounds like hit or miss with regards to a tutor. Dd is a very independent learner but likes having an available tutor. Coming from pahomeschoolers calc BC, she may have a difficult time finding s comparable match. The class was super. The online Stanford hs looks good but it is pricey. The community college is out...too far and meets every day. Georgia tech meets at 5 am our time...and registration is closed. Any other options? Thanks to both of you!!!!

[snowbeltmom]

Thanks to both of you. I looked at netmath, but couldn't determine if it is synchronous or not?

The Netmath class in asynchronous. Tests must be proctored (The librarians at my local library will proctor the exams). A student can begin the course at any time throughout the year and has nine months to complete the course.

 

The class looks good on paper. I don't always have luck with online classes, no matter how good they look on paper. I am hoping this works out because they offer enough math beyond multivariable to keep my son busy for the remainder of high school.

[Musicmom]

 

Dd will most likely take multivariable calc w epgy. This is a pass/no credit class. Any dc go this route? I can always give her a grade at the end of the class, but the epgy transcript will state "pass". Wondering if the top schools will dislike this format.

Thanks in advance:)

My ds took Multivariable Differential Calc thru EPGY 4 years ago. It was pass/no credit back then, too. I didn't assign a letter grade or worry about it, partly because I would be sending in an official copy of the EPGY transcript, which would say "Pass", and also because the same grading/credit scheme seemed to be true for all of their University level courses (perhaps because they have such young kids taking them? I don't know.) And also, ds had an abundance of test scores plus grades from other outside classes (incl EPGY Calc A-C) to verify his other grades. So on the transcript, I just put an * on the course title (like I did for the other EPGY courses), and S* (meaning Satisfactory--the Mom-grade I used for PE, etc--sounds better than "Pass" :)) for the grade. Then I had a footnote for the * that read:

 

*Course taken through Stanford EPGY; separate transcript attached; A+ grades given by Stanford. University-level courses are graded Satisfactory/No-credit.

 

The way it played out for ds at Carnegie Mellon was he took their Calculus placement test (required for all, regardless of AP, or college courses taken, etc.), and placed into the last of their 5-course calculus sequence. Upon satisfactory completion of that course, he then got credit for all of the previous 4 courses.

 

As for the EPGY course itself, it was quite difficult, but it was excellent and ds really enjoyed it--and he had quite a good tutor. (We did have to have exams proctored, but fortunately our local CC offers this service, so that worked out fine.) But I agree--human interaction with EPGY is very much hit or miss. Ds had a great tutor for Calc C, who was very impressed with ds, but when it came time for a letter of rec, it took MONTHS of emails and phone calls to get it from him (and he was such a nice guy, too!)

 

Hope this helps!

[Kathy in Richmond]

Any other options?

 

I know that the topic of multivariable calc courses comes up regularly on the hs2coll loop. Have you tried searching the message archives there?

 

If she's up for self-studying, MIT OCW 18.02 is a nice multivariable course.

 

We used Marsden and Tromba's Vector Calculus textbook at home. It's more theoretical and mathematically precise than the typical Stewart or Anton text, and both of my kids enjoyed it.

 

My ds took Multivariable Differential Calc thru EPGY 4 years ago. It was pass/no credit back then, too....We did have to have exams proctored.

That's interesting, Musicmom. My dd's 2010 EPGY class was graded A/B/C etc (and it showed that way on her EPGY transcript) and her exams were taken at home without a proctor. I just went and poked around on their website and found that only linear algebra and multivariable calc are graded P/F. The other university level math classes are still graded with letter grades. I wonder whether the proctoring rules follow the same division? And I wonder why they aren't consistent?

 

Anyway, I agree with you that EPGY experience is good overall, but tutor quality varies.

[Musicmom]

 

 

That's interesting, Musicmom. My dd's 2010 EPGY class was graded A/B/C etc (and it showed that way on her EPGY transcript) and her exams were taken at home without a proctor. I just went and poked around on their website and found that only linear algebra and multivariable calc are graded P/F. The other university level math classes are still graded with letter grades. I wonder whether the proctoring rules follow the same division? And I wonder why they aren't consistent?

 

Anyway, I agree with you that EPGY experience is good overall, but tutor quality varies.

Oh wow--that is very interesting, Kathy, because my ds took the multivariable calc in the fall of 2009. The EPGY AP Calc classes that he took the year before were all graded A/B/C and we did those tests at home. The website at the time listed their math classes in different categories: Honors, AP and University level, each in its own box, and the proctoring/grading rules seemed to change once you went into the University level box... but then, maybe I only looked at the Multivariable Calc and Linear algebra and drew my conclusions from those. Thanks for the clarification. Interesting that it's not consistent. I can't figure out why that would be...