Would this bother you?

[Alice]

I’m posting here as I want the perspective of those who might think differently than me. I don’t mean this to be a JAWM post.

 

A good friend sent me an email earlier today that detailed her son’s SCAT scores for applying to CTY. He did very well and will likely be eligible for CTY. On one hand, I’m a little taken aback and kind of bugged by it. I think I would have been less bothered if it hadn’t spelled out all the scores, complete with interpretation and info on CTY. Although that might possibly be just copied from an email they received. Also, I know they sent the email out to “family and friends†so this wasn’t just telling one person but more broadcasting their son’s achievements. I think I would be less bugged if it had been, “Hey, I just wanted to tell someone how excited I am about x..†without all the scores. Or if she had told me over coffee one day.

 

Truth be told, it’s also a friend who I always feel a little competitive with. We’re good friends and I would like it if this relationship didn’t seem to bring out this not so good side of me. If I tell her something about my son, there is always a story about how her son is doing something harder, stronger, better. Even my son has started to pick up on it. He and the other boy are both in the same grade (just finished 4th) and are good in math. Her son has been telling mine all about how he is self-teaching himself Calculus. My advice to my son was that it’s not good to worry about what other people are doing. Just do your own thing, do your best and be happy for your friend. But it’s hard to take that own advice myself, sometimes. I’m fairly sure my son would also qualify for CTY based on other testing but we haven’t done the official eligibility testing yet and may not choose to.

 

I feel like I should just be able to be happy for them without either feeling like I need to compete or be jealous but I’m finding it hard. I’m also wondering if my mixed emotions are coloring the way I’m seeing the email she sent out or if it was something that would put off other people also.

[texasmama]

Yes, I think that the of competition in your relationship with this friend color everything. Imagine that another friend had emailed you the same information. Would you be so bothered? If not, then it likely specific to the relationship. If so, then it is poking at something in you that bears examining.

 

How I would feel regarding an email like this would likely vary based on so many factors that I cannot imagine exactly how I would feel, but I hope the above is helpful to you in sorting out your own feelings/thoughts.

 

It sounds like a bit of distance might be in order, maybe just for a time. (((hugs))) (Because a hug makes everything better. :) )

[Bang!Zoom!]

Sorry, but I have to ask to understand, you say 4th grade. So this is you both in PS with kids that are the same age? I'm assuming 9'ish years old?

[Crimson Wife]

This is just the equivalent to the friend who goes around bragging about the exotic trip she took, or the luxury SUV she just bought, or the marathon she just completed, etc., etc. Some people like to brag about material things, others about their or their kids' accomplishments. It used to bother me growing up when people did this kind of bragging, but now as an adult I find it rather pathetic. Are you really so insecure that you have to go around trumpeting "Look at me! Aren't I so wonderful?" all the time? :rolleyes:

 

I've learned to smile, congratulate the bragger, and change the subject (or leave) at the earliest possible moment.

[Alice]

Yes, I think that the of competition in your relationship with this friend color everything. Imagine that another friend had emailed you the same information. Would you be so bothered? If not, then it likely specific to the relationship. If so, then it is poking at something in you that bears examining.

 

Hmm, interesting point. I’ll have to think about that. I think I would still be bothered and it has to do with the way I was raised. It was very much a “you never toot your own horn†kind of thing. I’m not saying that’s fair in this situation but I think that background combined with the competition factor is what bothered me. Also, your post made me think about the fact that I tend to think of it that she is competitive with me, now I’m seeing that there is an element of me being competitive with her. Not liking that idea so much but probably good to see and think about.

 

Sorry, but I have to ask to understand, you say 4th grade. So this is you both in PS with kids that are the same age? I'm assuming 9'ish years old?

 

I homeschool, my son is 9, turning 10 in the fall, and will be in 5th grade. They do private school, her son is going into 5th grade and is 10, almost 11.

[wapiti]

I have at least two friends like this. Usually, the friend's insecurity is part of the source of the competitiveness. Often, it's tied up with knowing you'd understand the significance of the score, an understanding which may be in short supply among her circle of friends. I'd be annoyed in accordance with my own insecurity but I'd try to let it roll off my back and remind myself that she deserves to be proud even if I wouldn't choose to share score details in the same way.

 

On a more general level, I wonder whether these feelings on everyone's parts (or probably just me, LOL) harks back to an "imposter syndrome" among bright women.

[Bang!Zoom!]

How long you guys been friends Alice? Are you only friends because of your kids, or is the friendship more about the two of you?

[Alice]

I have at least two friends like this. Usually, the friend's insecurity is part of the source of the competitiveness. Often, it's tied up with knowing you'd understand the significance of the score, an understanding which may be in short supply among her circle of friends. I'd be annoyed in accordance with my own insecurity but I'd try to let it roll off my back and remind myself that she deserves to be proud even if I wouldn't choose to share score details in the same way.

 

On a more general level, I wonder whether these feelings on everyone's parts (or probably just me, LOL) harks back to an "imposter syndrome" among bright women.

 

 

That’s a very good point. And I think you’re on to something with the “impostor syndromeâ€. I read that and thought “OH!"

 

How long you guys been friends Alice? Are you only friends because of your kids, or is the friendship more about the two of you?

 

 

We’ve been friends about 7 years. They go to our church, we’re friends with the whole family, they live near us, etc. Her son is one of my son’s closest friends. I’m not going to not be friends with her over this. I’m not even really seeking to change her, it’s more that this has been an issue for me in our relationship in the last year or so and I wanted to explore my own feelings to see if I can change my perspective.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Ya, she's more than a playground mom then, she's important.

 

I guess I'd start recounting the ways she is important, all the fine things she brings into your lives and as a good friend. Then I'd sit down and write it out.

 

Lay the two papers (the test scores, and the friendship qualities) side by side and maybe the tangible print will show you how far apart they are in real value. One brings forth something sort of dark..the competition issue. The other, like a rolling valley of wildflowers in summer.

 

When she brings this stuff up, congratulate her and listen to her, pepper the conversation with the things you value the most about her, bring some balance to it quite intentionally maybe? If you can somehow equate celebrating success with a real friend as the goal, maybe the old feelings will lose some of their singular power.

[SarahW]

Did the friend previously ask your advice concerning the SCAT or CTY? Is this a subject the two of you often discuss?

 

If not, then yes, I'd find it rude.

 

But I'm a not-sharing sort of person. I posted about my kid's Kaufman scores here because I was interested in some specifics about them. What would my MIL do with that information? Nothing. So why bring it up? And among the schoolteachers I know from church who would know what the numbers mean, the numbers don't tell them anything they don't already know from seeing my kid irl, so why bring it up with them either? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

As for the calculus thing - maybe the other boy knows that your kid is one of the few peers who knows what "calculus" is, and appreciates just having someone to talk to who won't laugh in his face about it. If that's the case, then instead of taking a comparative or competitive approach, your kid could say a few supportive things and then just leave it at that.

[Arcadia]

Also, I know they sent the email out to “family and friends†so this wasn’t just telling one person but more broadcasting their son’s achievements.

.......

If I tell her something about my son, there is always a story about how her son is doing something harder, stronger, better.

 

 

I won't be bothered by the email because it is mass mailed and those tend to have a lot more information than needed for some people. Let's say I send an email to my parents and in-laws about my kids report card. My dad would want to know what constitute an A/excellent/above grade standard but my mum and in-laws won't care less for such details beyond how many As.

 

The second part would bother me since my intent when sharing is not to compete. It gets exasperating to me if that happens everytime I describe something. Since it is a long friendship in your case, I'll just look at the bright side of your friendship.

[Desert Strawberry]

Sharing test scores is tacky IMO, unless specifically asked. Kind of like telling everyone your annual income instead of just, "I got a raise, isn't that great?"

[quark]

You have received very good advice. Just wanted to add that I see this as a normal part of my own "growing up" and understanding how people work. Things were so much simpler sans kids eh?

 

I have had to navigate similar friendships and wanted to say that you are not alone. Yes, I think part of it is imposter syndrome. Part of it is just a natural one upmanship feeling that any human being will have. Some braggers really are pathetic as CW says but you know, for some people, it's also therapeutic to brag. Often, they will realize afterwards that they were bragging and by making this "mistake" learn to not repeat it. I think of my own parenting/ homeschooling/ discussing my kiddo journey as constant fine tuning...always trying to find out what is the right thing to do. I'm sure others are like that too.

 

I deal with it by examining the value of the friendship almost exactly how one*mom puts it. I think about all the reasons I want to be in this relationship. I try to be honest with myself and if I find that I am the one who is jealous, I distance myself for a little while until I can come to terms with the whole thing. I need to do this because I don't deal well with toxic feelings. They really bring me down. Then I take stock and see if the feelings go away/ if I really treasure the relationship/ if the other mom is hurt in some way by my staying away etc. Things usually become clearer after a few weeks. After a while, I often realize that when a certain mom brags, she will usually do it with everyone, not just me. Serial bragger sort of thing.

 

If this mom is a serial bragger then I suggest just being happy for her then shrugging it off. If it makes you upset, think of all the other things your kid is doing that brings you happiness (not necessarily pride, but happiness). Sooner/ faster isn't necessarily better. The boy might have just glanced at the first page of the calculus book for example. Or he might really be learning it. That just means he's ready for that level of knowledge. That's all. It doesn't mean that he is better than your child. You know it...give the other mom some time to learn that too.

 

Hugs!

 

ETA: I have a few good friends with kids in private school. All of them have reported how competitive it is among other private school parents. When they gather for parties etc, everyone brags, everyone questions the other about what extra-cur classes their kiddo is doing just so they can enroll their kids too etc. One of my friends has likened it to facing a pack of wolves. So maybe your friend is just playing the only game she knows...she might need more compassion than anything else. Good luck!

 

Sorry, one more ETA: doing well in SCAT really isn't a huge deal. Lots of people prep their kids for it and the kids do well. It's kinda normal.

[Alice]

You have received very good advice. Just wanted to add that I see this as a normal part of my own "growing up" and understanding how people work. Things were so much simpler sans kids eh?

 

I have had to navigate similar friendships and wanted to say that you are not alone. Yes, I think part of it is imposter syndrome. Part of it is just a natural one upmanship feeling that any human being will have. Some braggers really are pathetic as CW says but you know, for some people, it's also therapeutic to brag. Often, they will realize afterwards that they were bragging and by making this "mistake" learn to not repeat it. I think of my own parenting/ homeschooling/ discussing my kiddo journey as constant fine tuning...always trying to find out what is the right thing to do. I'm sure others are like that too.

 

I deal with it by examining the value of the friendship almost exactly how one*mom puts it. I think about all the reasons I want to be in this relationship. I try to be honest with myself and if I find that I am the one who is jealous, I distance myself for a little while until I can come to terms with the whole thing. I need to do this because I don't deal well with toxic feelings. They really bring me down. Then I take stock and see if the feelings go away/ if I really treasure the relationship/ if the other mom is hurt in some way by my staying away etc. Things usually become clearer after a few weeks. After a while, I often realize that when a certain mom brags, she will usually do it with everyone, not just me. Serial bragger sort of thing.

 

If this mom is a serial bragger then I suggest just being happy for her then shrugging it off. If it makes you upset, think of all the other things your kid is doing that brings you happiness (not necessarily pride, but happiness). Sooner/ faster isn't necessarily better. The boy might have just glanced at the first page of the calculus book for example. Or he might really be learning it. That just means he's ready for that level of knowledge. That's all. It doesn't mean that he is better than your child. You know it...give the other mom some time to learn that too.

 

Hugs!

 

ETA: I have a few good friends with kids in private school. All of them have reported how competitive it is among other private school parents. When they gather for parties etc, everyone brags, everyone questions the other about what extra-cur classes their kiddo is doing just so they can enroll their kids too etc. One of my friends has likened it to facing a pack of wolves. So maybe your friend is just playing the only game she knows...she might need more compassion than anything else. Good luck!

 

Sorry, one more ETA: doing well in SCAT really isn't a huge deal. Lots of people prep their kids for it and the kids do well. It's kinda normal.

 

This is all very good advice. Thanks. And thanks to all the other people who weighed in, lots of good things to think about.

 

As with any relationship it’s complicated. Posting this reminded me of advice another friend often gives (unrelated to this situation) about ascribing “positive intentions†or something like that to everyone. Meaning that when thinking about something someone else done it’s more helpful to believe the other person means well than to assume that they are acting intentionally hurtful. I’ve found that’s good advice in general and probably here as well.

[kiwik]

I hope her son will be ok with it in a few years. It is partly just an effect of digital technology. If she had to write a letter out longhand to every person she would probably give less detail and if she had to tell everyone in person she may be more aware of what she is saying.

[daijobu]

I'm one of those people who tends to get on the bragging superhighway...not really about my kids, but my amazing prowess as a homeschooling mom.  (Really, you should see me in action, LOL!)  

 

I have one friend who, when I go a bit too far, just starts to gush at me.  Something along the lines of, "You are SO AMAZING!"  It isn't sarcastic.  It's sincere, but maybe just a tad over the top.  It has the effect of embarrassing me and making me realize that I've been overdoing it.  

 

This is a technique you may want to try for yourself, if the other good advice above doesn't get results.  Also, you can look at it as an opportunity to learn more about how her children achieved such successes.  Is there something you can learn from her that might benefit your own children?  

[Pen]

What are SCAT and CTY?   I guess I'd like the info about what it is since I have no idea.   

 

As for the calculus, maybe, "Cool!  Can you show me some?"    It is hard to know what is showing off, and what is looking for someone to share an interest with, but it could in any case be a chance to learn, just as having a friend who is a good dancer or drummer or basketball player could be a chance to learn some of that.

[Paige]

I'd chalk it up to her not being aware that discussing specific test scores is kind of tacky. Is she generally the type to share way too much info about everything? I wouldn't think she's trying to make anyone feel badly.

[Dana]

What are SCAT and CTY? I guess I'd like the info about what it is since I have no idea.

 

As for the calculus, maybe, "Cool! Can you show me some?" It is hard to know what is showing off, and what is looking for someone to share an interest with, but it could in any case be a chance to learn, just as having a friend who is a good dancer or drummer or basketball player could be a chance to learn some of that.

CTY is Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth.

http://cty.jhu.edu/

The SCAT is their talent search test for 2-6th grade. It doesn't give much info...

[crazyforlatin]

Depends on the friendship I guess. Would you have been as bothered if she said her son made an elite sports team and scored X points last year? Maybe you would, but people definitely don't think much about announcing stuff like that, but are hesitant when it comes to academics. It doesn't seem right to me that people can talk about athletic achievement, but not academic.

 

I don't share much info about my kids with anyone. Seems people are too easily offended.

And oddly enough, the person doing all the telling gets offended when your child has done something very similar and questions you as if this could never have happened without some parental help.

 

Better to stay quiet.

[Erin]

This is just the equivalent to the friend who goes around bragging about the exotic trip she took, or the luxury SUV she just bought, or the marathon she just completed, etc., etc. Some people like to brag about material things, others about their or their kids' accomplishments. It used to bother me growing up when people did this kind of bragging, but now as an adult I find it rather pathetic. Are you really so insecure that you have to go around trumpeting "Look at me! Aren't I so wonderful?" all the time? :rolleyes:

 

I've learned to smile, congratulate the bragger, and change the subject (or leave) at the earliest possible moment.

 

I tend to see it the same way.  Frequently mentioning some of the fun stuff they did while in the Caymans because it was just so fun and memorable is one thing.  

But this seems more like if she had told you how much this vacation cost and the only reason they could afford it was because her husband had made himself just so very indispensable at work, and yes she realizes how lucky she is to get to go and not everyone is so fortunate, etc, etc, etc.  KWIM?

 

 

Some people just think giftedness is a very big deal.  Apparently she's one of them.  That's OK.  Let her have her joy.

Look on the bright side; at least her kid's not a car racing prodigy.  You'd have to hear about NASCAR all the time instead!! ;)

[Alice]

Depends on the friendship I guess.  Would you have been as bothered if she said her son made an elite sports team and scored X points last year?  Maybe you would, but people definitely don't think much about announcing stuff like that, but are hesitant when it comes to academics.  It doesn't seem right to me that people can talk about athletic achievement, but not academic. 

 

I don't share much info about my kids with anyone.  Seems people are too easily offended.

 

This is an oldish thread but I got the notifications about the new posts. When I saw it I had to even remind myself what it was about as I’d kind of moved on. But I wanted to respond to this one post. 

 

I initially posted the question mostly to explore my own feelings. I think I would have been as bothered by an email saying “hey, joey was selected for the blah blah soccer team and here are all his stats for the seasonâ€. In fact, this particular friend does do that about sports also. Her kids do a sport that mine do also and she tends to tell me about their times in a “aren’t they amazing†kind of way. The thing is for that particular sport, my boys are actually much better than hers but I just choose to keep quiet. I don’t want to get into a “oh, joey swam a 44.14? well, C. swam a 38.12†or whatever. So I just usually say congratulations. They also play another sport that her son is much better at than mine and she will often tell me about his game stats, etc. 

 

I do think that you should be able to share good news with good friends. I don’t take all good news my friends tell me as bragging. It’s more a history of this particular relationship. 

 

What I’ve realized from all this...I was bothered by the email because it’s just not something I would do. I think I wouldn’t have been as bothered if it hadn’t been a mass email, if it had been in person rather than email and if it hadn’t been quite so specific. There is also slightly more backstory that I didn’t want to put online that colors my feelings. However, I also realized that part of the reason I’m bothered is that despite my best intentions I am comparing our sons...I’m just doing it internally. That has helped me to try and stop comparing or at least to be more aware of it. I also realize that just because sending out the email isn’t something I would do it doesn’t mean it’s not something that is ok to do. She has a different personality and is clearly more ok with sharing details. I don’t think this comes from malicious intentions on her part. 

 

And bottom line, the friendship is more important than this issue. In fact, this family was over at our house last night for dinner. So it’s all good. 

[jenbrdsly]

My two cents.  I think the kid's scores should be private.  That's a horrible invasion of the child's personal business on the mom's part.  Is it okay to post your child's report card on Facebook?  NO!  So why is okay to send out their SCAT scores?