What am I doing wrong. . .??

[Alicia64]

I've been homeschooling since my twins were 5.5 yrs. We're supposedly finishing up 4th grade and they'll be in 5th in Sept.

 

They fight me. every. step. of. the. way.

 

One boy is rather ahead so he grasps academics quickly -- pretty much gets his stuff done after whining a bit and then wants videos or "Ninjago."

 

The other is at grade level and slower to grasp academics and really avoids, avoids, avoids and does as little as humanly possible.

 

My weaknesses? I'm "too nice" and arrange lots of playdates and am generally a caring, warm mom.

 

My strengths? I'm organized and have a daily plan of what needs to be done.

 

For years, mornings were reserved for lessons. Period. But this summer, we have swim lessons every Tues and Thurs. morning. So -- of course! -- after swim lessons we don't need to do any lessons!

 

If I make a dr. appoint. in the morning -- same thing. It's like pulling teeth after Noonish to get them to do anything.

 

My "slower" boys hurt is right hand pretty badly last week and now -- of course -- can't do about a million different things that takes the use of his hand.

 

Xtra math requires your right hand.

Writing requires a right hand.

Etc. etc.

 

If you can't tell, I'm so frustrated and irritated. I was planning on using the summer to catch up from some of the trips, sicknesses, goofing off we did during the school year. (We always school year round.)

 

I remember complaining to a friend a couple of years back and she said, "Give them two weeks off and they'll get bored and want to return to lessons." Um, not even close.

 

By the way, we don't have a TV. If they see any show it's on a laptop and video games are reserved for weekends only. So we're not a high tech, high-screen household.

 

I honestly thought homeschooling would be more than me pulling them up a mountain every freaking day.

 

Our curriculum is not hard:

 

Teaching Textbooks and Xtra Math

Spelling Workout

Handwriting Without Tears

Song School Latin 2

Brave Writer

SOTW

I read aloud a lot and have them silently read a lot.

 

Any ideas?

 

Alley

[KrissiK]

I'm sorry. I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I have a boy that age and he'd rather do anything but school. I battle him every day.

 

Just a couple of observations .... regarding dr. appointments..., don't make them in the morning. Ever. I've never had a problem making afternoon appointments if I am insistent with the desk lady. Unless, of course it is an urgent situation. All appointments are in the afternoon. Period.

 

Also, the rule is, no t.v., no playing, no nothing until school work is done. And if you just choose to sit there and do nothing, that is your choice. You cannot force your child to do their work, but you can give them no other alternative, but to do their work. And just ignore their protests. That's what I do. Eventually they get tired of their little sit-in and finish up so they can go play. My oldest son basically has the same amount of work every day. Some days he is done by 1:30pm, some days he's still puttzing around while I'm cooking dinner. It's enough to make me just want to pull my hair out, but I just try to smile and walk right past him as he is sprawled out in the floor in agony.

[Piper]

I'm not totally familiar with all the curricula you listed, but do you think perhaps your boys could use more hands-on/activity style work? Something a bit more kinesthetic, perhaps. I don't know, just throwing it out there! Also, as regards school after noonish - I don't even try any more! It's so frustrating, my kids (5 & 7) just totally space out once lunch is over. They may sit there and be doing school "in body", but their minds are definitely not on the job! Any appointments we make are in the afternoon, and I honestly don't know how teachers in large schools cope with the kids after lunch!! Good luck - sorry I don't have more helpful suggestions but I just wanted to assure you that the post-lunch thing is definitely not just you! :)

[wapiti]

The age plays a role, I'm sure. My 10 y.o. boys sure chafe against the injustice of summer math.

 

My only comments are that (1) it's possible for "not hard" to really be "too easy," which can exacerbate the lack of motivation to get it done both in the short run and slowly snowball in the long run (among other undesirable results), and (2) if the disparity between the two siblings is dramatic in terms of levels, in the long run I'd keep my eyes open for potential issues in the "slower" one (issues of the type that might contribute to the slowness).

 

SSL2 - I'm not sure I'd bother.

[SarahW]

Our curriculum is not hard:

 

Teaching Textbooks and Xtra Math

Spelling Workout

Handwriting Without Tears

Song School Latin 2

Brave Writer

SOTW

I read aloud a lot and have them silently read a lot.

 

Any ideas?

 

Alley

 

 

I agree about maybe it's too easy. That list looks boring and/or underage for 4th/5th to me.

 

Reading is great - fantastic. But what "fun" curriculum do they do? Science experiments. Making a timeline of Japanese history. Music (for some reason my kid loves doing music theory, possibly because it involves banging on the piano, but still, that was unexpected). Taking apart an old computer tower. Giving a speech. Writing a novel (eta - by which I mean a short story, possibly fanfiction). Watercolor painting on canvas.

 

I know people like to focus on the "three R's" but at some point that needs to broaden into their applications. Just my $0.02.

[Alicia64]

I agree about maybe it's too easy. That list looks boring and/or underage for 4th/5th to me.

 

Reading is great - fantastic. But what "fun" curriculum do they do? Science experiments. Making a timeline of Japanese history. Music (for some reason my kid loves doing music theory, possibly because it involves banging on the piano, but still, that was unexpected). Taking apart an old computer tower. Giving a speech. Writing a novel (eta - by which I mean a short story, possibly fanfiction). Watercolor painting on canvas.

 

I know people like to focus on the "three R's" but at some point that needs to broaden into their applications. Just my $0.02.

 

I didn't include everything. One boy does piano. Both go to our Manners Class for our new adopted dog. The boys do a sport each season: swimming, tennis, rock climbing, fencing for the first time in the fall.

 

For the Brave Writer writing (new curriculum we're trying), I thought it would be fun to make a summer book. Kind of like a diary with pictures and drawings and writing.

 

I thought they'd dig that. Nope. It's been a fight too.

 

Also, all of the above curriculum is on grade level. They're both in Teaching Textbooks fifth grade math. We're doing Song School Latin 2 to be up w/ a new co-op in the fall.

 

I'm open to what you're saying. I'm just frustrated trying to get the basics done, finding good read alouds etc.

 

Alley

[PeterPan]

I can't imagine afternoon lessons in summer going over, mercy. So that's a losing proposition. Two, I'd ponder on your media thing the quality. Kids pretty much love what you give them an appetite for. We watch lots of tv (and read LOTS!), but our tv is movies of classic books, shows with adults acting admirably, that sort of thing. I don't know what videos your dc is asking for after his work, but we don't do ANY tv during the day except for afternoon quiet time (the only time my ds slows down!) or if you're SICK. So maybe just ax that and change the rule entirely. Replace junk with better. Puzzles, kits, models, rope, audiobooks while they play, or the Mini-Weapons book. I'll link it below. Three, I'd check those birthdays. If they're 9 with summer birthdays, a grade adjustment might help. Four, you have a very workbooky, paper-driven approach. You could have one eating it up because that's his style and another who is more kinesthetic who needs things with more doing. My boy is over the top kinesthetic, and I'm doing things totally differently from what I did with dd, even with the same programs. More doing, more manipulatives, more motion. There are some online learning styles assessments, or you can try Cathy Duffy's stuff. She has some helpful categorizations that might give you insight.

 

Mini Weapons of Mass Destruction: Build Implements of Spitball Warfare

[Alicia64]

 

 

Mini Weapons of Mass Destruction: Build Implements of Spitball Warfare

 

 

I LOVE you! Thank you! I think everyone who is saying I'm too workbooky is right. One son is more hands on, definitely. I just don't know how to switch to that.

 

I mean, how do you do hands on math? A subject he hates by the way. We tried Math U See. Nope. He's actually doing better w/ Teaching Textbooks, but fights me. Even as I sit right next to him and answer questions he has.

 

How do you make writing hands on?

 

Thank you, thank you, Elizabeth, and Everyone!

 

Alley

[briansmama]

We don't do TV or video games during the week, period, That helps my dc stay focused.

 

Another thought is possibly using a board with the daily checklist for both dc. I do 2 separate lists for my boys of the day's plans, including lessons, practice, and always add a fun thing to the end of the list, that comes after everything else is finished. Sometimes this includes a class they like but most often in summer it is simply "play in the neighborhood" or "go to the pool" or "out for ice cream."

 

My dc know we don't move down the list until the current thing is finished.

[Farrar]

I don't think the curriculum sounds too easy necessarily... TT doesn't even start until 3rd, BW is all about meeting a child at their stage of writing, kids who have followed the traditional rotation will still be doing SOTW in fourth. Seems about right to me. The only thing I thought might be young was HWT. Is there a specific reason you're still doing handwriting with a fifth grader?

 

We do a regular school day in the summer, so it can be done and I don't think that's crazy at all. I think it depends a lot on your weather. I don't think I'd personally try it if you're, say, in Vermont or Oregon or something, where the weather is just lovely. But summer is miserable for many of the rest of us if you're not in a pool or at the beach. If you're hiding in the air conditioning, may as well do school. We take off more in the fall, since that's when it's nicer to be outside.

 

I do strongly second the idea of throwing in more science. Backyard Ballistics is another fun option. And there are so, so many other fun options there as well. Or throwing in more art or more whatever they're into, especially for the summer.

 

In terms of Brave Writer, have you looked at the projects in the new Partnership Writing? I feel like they're very boy-friendly. My rising 4th graders did the secret codes project already and it was really fun. We did all the stuff in the book and then added a couple of things. There's actually a post about it on my blog right now. Looking ahead, I also keep thinking that the Mail Order Catalog project looks very boy-friendly. I can totally imagine that my boys will create something awesome and imaginative after having pored over Lego catalogs for years.

 

I get that doing drawings and journalings sounds fun and light to us, but I know it's the kind of thing that doesn't always to the kids. If you don't want to do Partnership Writing, what about writing comics? That always gets my boys writing. Or writing fan fiction if they have a favorite TV show or book series or video game? Or something else that is really generated by them. One of my boys is working on a script for a movie he wants to make. He talks about it, but he probably wouldn't work on it really on his own, so I keep making space during school time for him to do it.

[Farrar]

Oh yeah, and math.

 

Have you seen The Book of Perfectly Perilous Math? I feel like something like that makes a great summer, fun math kind of thing. Plus, it has math labs, so it's hands on with math projects.

 

We do math more hands on with the C-rods when needed. At the start of the year, they still came out a lot. Now, my boys are going to be 9 before long (eek!) and they come out less, but I'm definitely still holding on to them. Doing math on the white board helps too. And, at least for one of my boys, having two programs to switch between works because he can hit a wall with one and then do a few pages in the other, hit a wall, switch back, etc. etc.

[lllll]

...

[Alicia64]

Is there a specific reason you're still doing handwriting with a fifth grader? Well, only because they don't seem to feel 100% confident with it so HWWT added a 5th grade book and I just thought we'd do it. I don't insist they write in cursive, I really just want them to be able to read it. I'm open to being wrong about this.

 

We take off more in the fall, since that's when it's nicer to be outside. I live in your weather Farrar.

 

I do strongly second the idea of throwing in more science. Backyard Ballistics is another fun option. Buying Backyard Ballistics next. We do Mark Kistler's art class online and I get push back on that too.

 

In terms of Brave Writer, have you looked at the projects in the new Partnership Writing? I'm hearing Julie speak in Aug. and I just bought the Jungle book. We're just getting started. Can you link me to the Partnership Writing? I'm confused what to buy. Since I have two boys, do I need two PW?

 

I get that doing drawings and journalings sounds fun and light to us, but I know it's the kind of thing that doesn't always to the kids. If you don't want to do Partnership Writing, what about writing comics? That always gets my boys writing. Or writing fan fiction if they have a favorite TV show or book series or video game? Or something else that is really generated by them. One of my boys is working on a script for a movie he wants to make. He talks about it, but he probably wouldn't work on it really on his own, so I keep making space during school time for him to do it. Okay. I hear you.

 

Farrar: Just FYI, but I follow your blog and just love you. Thanks for responding. You sound a lot more fun as a mom than me!

 

Alley

[PeterPan]

I LOVE you! Thank you! I think everyone who is saying I'm too workbooky is right. One son is more hands on, definitely. I just don't know how to switch to that.

 

I mean, how do you do hands on math? A subject he hates by the way. We tried Math U See. Nope. He's actually doing better w/ Teaching Textbooks, but fights me. Even as I sit right next to him and answer questions he has.

 

How do you make writing hands on?

 

Thank you, thank you, Elizabeth, and Everyone!

 

Alley

 

We use TT too (you can see it in my sig), so I'm with you on it working better for some kids. I'm not totally clear what you mean by fighting you. Math is the hardest subject to choose. Like sometimes you have to buy 7 before you find the right one. A good manipulative creates confusion and isn't understood at first. The manipulative is no longer needed once it's easy. He may just flat not NEED the MUS manips. I used RS with my dd and plan to again with my ds (have level A waiting in the wings!). I particularly like the base 10 picture cards and place value cards. Or get out legos or use real objects. Or make it more kinesthetic and gross motor, doing the math on a whiteboard. Change all the word problems to Lord of the Rings or whatever floats their boat. We did a lot of physical science math this year in the company of the Legolas and the characters from LotR. If so and so shoots and it goes at this rate, blah blah, how many will they kill... Oh yeah. :)

 

Anyways, math is hard to choose. I'm not saying jump around. I always suggest the buy 7, try 'em all for a week, then you know at the end. Maybe a mixture would improve things. You'll notice in my sig it's BJU *plus* TT. Maybe the material is too new/introductory, and maybe he needs to see it different ways. If you teach him with uber-short lessons from a more conceptual approach (again, I like BJU) and do that just on the whiteboard, max 10-15 min, THEN go do your TT, then you have this balance of instruction and spiral. Might let you see if he has holes. I don't know, just tossing ideas. It would be nice to find that sweet spot where he feels SUCCESSFUL with his math. Pudewa says something to the effect of kids LIKING to do what they can do WELL. So maybe back up or play with your mixture to see if you can find that sweet spot.

 

Writing hands-on? Easy, look at Writing Tales. That's your primo example. Lots of games that you can do with them up and moving. I taught WT2 as a co-op class, and it was incredibly fun, highly recommend. Given their ages, you might look at WT1 instead. We analyzed the models for the grammar using colored markers, made the games more kinesthetic, etc. etc. For grammar we used Shurley, but some people use Winston. It has cards you can move around. Or use the whiteboard.

 

My ds is much more kinesthetic than my dd (who's very anti-workbook and a doer in her own right), so I'm only on the cusp of this. Pretty much though I either strap him down or have him moving. Or have him moving something while he's strapped down, haha. You'll figure it out. :)

[texasmama]

At one point last year, I had to forbid myself or anyone else to make any appointments on Wednesdays or Thursdays, our heavy school days. I just didn't do it. Things went so much smoother when I did this. So I suggest you make several days sacred and keep appointments and play dates and such on the other days.

 

I had a talk with one of my sons recently. I told him that school was not optional. I also told him that what he was NOT going to do was complain about it since it didn't change the outcome and only frustrated me and wasted time. I will have this talk again, if needed.

[IsabelC]

Not sure whether this is relevant to you or not (as always, feel free to ignore!), but in my experience it's been very helpful for us, the parents, to have a firm commitment to whatever we're trying to get the kids to do. Even if we're just trying something out, it helps to try and APPEAR to be committed to it. The kids seem to sniff out a half-hearted attitude and target that as an activity that they can get out of, but if they think we're really going to insist they are more likely to accept it. So if you want to have mornings reserved for schoolwork, you might need to eliminate EVERYTHING else in the mornings unless there is a life-threatening emergency, at least until they get into the rhythm of it. Once they are so used to it that it doesn't even occur to them to resist morning schoolwork, then you could reinstate swimming lessons etc.

 

Since your dc are old enough to be able to understand time constraints and do some planning ahead, you could also try the simple strategy of scheduling their preferred activities right after blocks of school work. So if you have planned two hours of schoolwork followed by an hour of outside play (or free reading, or screen time or whatever they prefer), and they decide to waste an hour dawdling over their work, then OOPS the outside play time has been used and now it's time for chores, or more school work. Although some kids can take a while to learn this way, so you'd need to be prepared for several unpleasant days before you see an improvement.

 

If the issue is not bad attitude but more of a difficulty with staying still and concentrating (which is not uncommon for 9yo boys) it might help to build more movement breaks into your plans. Half an hour of math, run a few laps, 20 minutes of something else. Most subjects can be modified to be more physical, for example if kids are practicing multiplication tables, they can clap and chant for small movements or shout the tables while doing jumping jacks for large movement. Just about any aspect of science can be acted out energetically by pretending to be white blood cells, planets, electrons, etc. You can do grammar by parsing sentences with hoops or squares taped on the floor (label each one verb, noun etc and read out the sentence slowly while the kids jump or hop into the appropriate space for each word).

[VaKim]

Mine are older now, but my youngest was like yours. The most important thing is to be firm. If they know there is a possibility that fighting and whining can get them out of even some of their work, they will try it. You must decide what will be done each day and stick to it, no matter what. The other thing that was really important to this dd was that she knew what to expect. She still cannot stand it if I switch things without letting her know ahead of time. So let them know what to expect, then stick to it. Works for me anyway. :-)

[IsabelC]

Oh and I forgot to add, to answer your OP, it's quite possible that you aren't doing anything wrong! Maybe your boys are simply at a stage where they are going to push and challenge and resist because that's where they're at. If this is the case, then if you weren't homeschooling they'd be frustrating you in other ways instead.