Neighborhood kids and exclusion

[blondeviolin]

My kids all play together really well. We constantly talk about being a team and being kind. Any time we see some inkling of exclusionary behavior when they're playing, we remind them that if everyone can't play together, nobody can play. That's not to say that they can have time to play with just their friends if they were to have play dates or whatever. TBH, play dates and the like aren't common right now because they are younger and don't have many friends all to themselves.

 

Anyway, our neighbors have their granddaughter visiting for the summer. I'd guess she's 9 or so and is pretty well behaved in general. She shares, asks to come over and understands when we say not right now. She's had a pretty rough family life (abuse, adoption, etc). I gather she is now in a family situation that is stable and in counseling. She's really a sweet girl. But when she comes over to play with my kids, she's only interested in playing with one of the older kids and is often telling my (nearly) 4yo she can't play. When I'm out there, I make sure everyone is allowed to play. We talk to our kids about being a team and nobody being left out. But, TBH, my kids aren't aware that Ellie's being left out; in their eyes, everyone is playing. Tonight the neighborhood girl dumped roly polies in my daughter's swim suit.

 

I don't think she's trying to be mean... I just don't think she's used to having younger kids around, really. Having been a younger kid, I feel for Ellie. She wants to play with this girl too, and while my oldest tries to include, it's not the same coming from her sister rather than the other girl. And our house rules are that if we can't play together nicely, then we don't play.

 

Should I always be out there supervising until she gets that idea? Or should I just let it be and assume Ellie will "toughen up"? (That's not my favorite option. I don't believe my 4yo should be left out at her house.) I'm leaning towards only letting her come over when I can be outside too... But then she drops playing like a rock and wants to just hold the baby.

 

Thoughts?

[KungFuPanda]

Your policy sounds like one derived by a youngest child. As an oldest child, I'd make sure the older kids had a chance to do older kid things sometimes even IF this made the youngest sad. I think you need a balance, but it's not unusual for 9-year-olds to not want to engage in 4-year-old play ALL the time.

[Mergath]

With that big of an age difference, I think you need to let the older kids have their time. They shouldn't have to play with a much younger child each and every time they get together. My brother is only about four years younger than me, but if the rule at my house had been that I wasn't allowed to play with friends without including him each and every time, I would have had a very isolated childhood. Sure, make them include her sometimes, and other times let them do their thing while you and the little ones do something together.

[blondeviolin]

Your policy sounds like one derived by a youngest child. As an oldest child, I'd make sure the older kids had a chance to do older kid things sometimes even IF this made the youngest sad. I think you need a balance, but it's not unusual for 9-year-olds to not want to engage in 4-year-old play ALL the time.

 

When my oldest kid has friends over, she is not required to let others play. I often make sure the little kids are out of the way when older kids have friends. Granted, my kids don't have specific friends over often (like once a week.). But this girl is not anyone's specific friend, they are ALL playing outside.

 

She plays with my 5yo without being rude. But she only is nice to the 4yo if it's to her advantage.

[Rivka]

When my oldest kid has friends over, she is not required to let others play. I often make sure the little kids are out of the way when older kids have friends. Granted, my kids don't have specific friends over often (like once a week.). But this girl is not anyone's specific friend, they are ALL playing outside.

 

She plays with my 5yo without being rude.

 

It sounds like, from this girl's perspective, she is trying to be someone's specific friend - your oldest's, or maybe the two oldest. Does it seem different to you because she's a neighborhood kid and the playtime is spontaneous instead of being set up in advance?

 

Maybe a compromise would be to arrange some times when you will invite her over and keep the little kids occupied, like a playdate, and other times that are just for "everybody playing."

 

My kids are 4 and 8. Sometimes my 8-year-old and her friends include little brother, and other times they don't. I am grateful when they do, but when they want their space I try to find something special for him to do with me. I can't imagine insisting that a neighbor child must always include someone who is more than five years younger than she is, and who is also very little. There's a huge gap between almost-4 and 9.

[blondeviolin]

 

 

It sounds like, from this girl's perspective, she is trying to be someone's specific friend - your oldest's, or maybe the two oldest. Does it seem different to you because she's a neighborhood kid and the playtime is spontaneous instead of being set up in advance?

 

Maybe a compromise would be to arrange some times when you will invite her over and keep the little kids occupied, like a playdate, and other times that are just for "everybody playing."

 

My kids are 4 and 8. Sometimes my 8-year-old and her friends include little brother, and other times they don't. I am grateful when they do, but when they want their space I try to find something special for him to do with me. I can't imagine insisting that a neighbor child must always include someone who is more than five years younger than she is, and who is also very little. There's a huge gap between almost-4 and 9.

 

I might be having some hang-ups because it is spontaneous play, for sure. I understand she is much older than the 4yo.

 

Though, she doesn't seem dead set on being friends with the older two either. Mostly it seems like she is bored staying at her grandma's house and she wants to play with my kids' toys.

[catz]

When my oldest kid has friends over, she is not required to let others play. I often make sure the little kids are out of the way when older kids have friends. Granted, my kids don't have specific friends over often (like once a week.). But this girl is not anyone's specific friend, they are ALL playing outside.

 

She plays with my 5yo without being rude. But she only is nice to the 4yo if it's to her advantage.

 

Well, maybe when there are problems you should let the girl and your oldest know that exclusive play is only allowed when you have a play date set up and then allow them to do that once every week or 2 if you're willing. And just send her home if she's mean to the 4 year old. I think it's a little hard to police this and maybe you do need to be willing to sit outside. She'll probably get over the novelty of the baby quickly.

 

I do think a hard line policy like this gets harder and harder as kids age.

 

ETA - my kids are almost 4 years apart and I actually never policed a policy like this. If one kid would come in complaining, I would just say something like "Hmmm ... Suzy must want to visit with Jimmy today. Why don't you XXX". Depending on the circumstances, I might use it as a teaching moment "Joey doesn't have any siblings and isn't used to so many kids around. I think he's still working on his manners too. You can still play outside and just let him know I said it was ok."

[Starr]

If she's not having trouble with the 5 year old she should be able to manage a 4 year old. It's not the age, it's that only one child is being excluded. It sounds like your own children aren't being particularly nice in this case either if they don't notice their sister is being left out. Maybe you need to rethink the whole situation. :grouphug:

[blondeviolin]

If she's not having trouble with the 5 year old she should be able to manage a 4 year old. It's not the age, it's that only one child is being excluded. It sounds like your own children aren't being particularly nice in this case either if they don't notice their sister is being left out. Maybe you need to rethink the whole situation. :grouphug:

 

My 5yo isn't very including when she's excluding too. The 7yo tries to include but isn't as socially aware, nor is she too into playing with this girl. She really is hanging with the 5yo. But the 5yo did come tell me when she put bugs down Ellie's swimsuit.

 

I'm gonna hafta' think on this a bit more, but y'all have given me lots of food for thought. Until I can figure out a better solution, they will only get to have her over when I can either supervise or entertain younger siblings so they can play older games.

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Rollie pollies are pill bugs, right? Not too bad of a thing to have put down your shirt. I'd talk to the older ones about "how would you feel if that happened to you". And I'd talk to the younger one about how pill bugs are cute. And I'd monitor them more.

[Snow]

I would only let her come over when you could supervise. Putting bugs in someone's clothes, especially someone who is five years younger than you, is completely unacceptable to me. I can't handle that crap. But I'm an overly sensitive, youngest child so...I have issues that way :)

[violamama]

If I was allowing a bigger mixed (family/non-family) play group including an age gap like that, I'd be out there playing- and mostly with the youngest. Whenever I saw kind behavior to the youngers I would give a knowing smile or even verbal encouragement to the olders. Bring them "in on it", make them feel respected when they care for the others in the group. Reinforce that acting responsibly and with compassion is a grown-up group way of behaving. And I would probably try to arrange some time for the olders to play together or have a special late movie night, something like that. Which I would also supervise.

 

ETA: Fwiw, I would not trust my own boys to play in a consistently friendly/polite way in a group with kids from other families. The darndest things come out of kids mouths in those situations. They KNOW how they should treat each other, but they sometimes experiment with some weird hierarchical stuff in groups. They may want to align themselves with the olders in that situation, too. And they are sweet, loving kids. It's just that social stuff takes so much practice and redirection.

[bettyandbob]

I was the youngest growing up. I don't remember anyone being expected to include me. It was fine. I survived. I guess when it was just us, my older siblings included me,but when they had friends over tree wasno expectation.

 

We did have to include everyone when my parents had invited people to our home. Actually, when my parents friends were over we had to spend the whole time making sure the guest children got to do whatever they wanted and we were expected to keep guest children absolutely happy. Some of my parent's friends were brats.

[briansmama]

This is such a tough one! It's often very hard for me to hear the neighborhood kids play and watch my youngest get left out. It happened a lot until recently. Now that he's a bit older he's usually included because he can hold his own athletically and the kids like having another potential teammate. It still isn't ideal though; there is one neighbor kid in particular that just can't tolerate younger kids and he's often hard on my youngest.

 

What has really helped us, especially during the summertime, is to uphold a consistent schedule. We go to our family gym/pool most weekday mornings, come home just in time for lunch, followed by an hour of quiet time, and THEN my dc are available to play in the neighborhood from about 3-5.

 

This not only cuts down on the amount of time they are playing with neighbor kids- it also encourages everyone to make the most of the time they have, so the boy who really prefers to only play with my oldest knows that he's only available for a short time period so they'd better make the most of it. This greatly reduces the fighting and excluding, I've learned.