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**** hazing is apparently a thing in American high schools now


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My daughters never set foot in a public school (until the eldest started teaching in one! :lol: )

 

But I must say that some of my friends' children are attending public high schools and they are thriving. While certainly there are some undesirable aspects, there have been great benefits also. They've had some great teachers and good friends, and I think overall, it's been a good experience for them.

 

So, I think we have to avoid sweeping generalizations - there are some terrible schools out there - but there are some terrific schools also..

 

Anne

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I don't know whether to throw up or cry.

 

And THIS mentality is what my kids are missing in public schools?

 

Sorry, this one hits too close to home. Norwood School mentioned in the article is in our rural county.

 

Yea, we aren't missing anything. Maybe I needed to read this today, as just this week I have been having that old "socialization" argument in my own head, as we are struggling to find connections for our kids. This was a stark reminder that public school isn't always what it is cracked up to be either.

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I don't think I believe this type of...err...I don't know that hazing is the appropriate word, but okay, is common in the school system as a whole.

 

I am sure you are right, that it isn't common as a whole. At least I'd like to think so. However, they cited 40 cases...the reported cases. That means we all know there are far more than just 40.

 

What disturbs me most, I think, is that they are calling this "hazing". If it weren't occurring in a school setting, it would be called what it is...rape. Why are they not calling it that?

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Anal hazing is apparently a thing in American high schools now

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/anal-hazing-apparently-thing-american-high-schools-now-140040056.html

 

 

Are they serious? Is there ANYTHING positive about public schools these days?

 

And people wondered why there was a discussion about public schools being demonized here....

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And people wondered why there was a discussion about public schools being demonized here....

 

To be fair, it isn't like a hundred people jumped on the bandwagon of the thread though. And I think I've seen as many "bad homeschooler" stories as I have "crazy public school" stories.

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I am sure you are right, that it isn't common as a whole. At least I'd like to think so. However, they cited 40 cases...the reported cases. That means we all know there are far more than just 40.

 

What disturbs me most, I think, is that they are calling this "hazing". If it weren't occurring in a school setting, it would be called what it is...rape. Why are they not calling it that?

 

Legally in most states it would be regarded as sexual assault, and yes, it is generally prosecuted as a crime. I am not sure why you think otherwise.

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Legally in most states it would be regarded as sexual assault, and yes, it is generally prosecuted as a crime. I am not sure why you think otherwise.

 

People are responding to the title of the article referring to it as "hazing" though lower down it does use the words abuse and rape. They are also referring to the fact that while it sounds like some are facing prosecution, not all are - the article mentioned the wrestling coach still being employed by the school and a principal just moving to another school despite knowing and condoning the abuse. Also - did you notice (not just you ChocolateReign but everyone) that the article said that townies in the schools where this happened are for the rapists and are down on those who reported the abuse? That just blew my mind.

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The principal that moved was the father of the victim. He didn't condone the abuse, but obviously he didn't have enough power to change the culture. I have no idea why he couldn't have at least expelled the rapists. I'm sure he moved to save his son from being bullied even more.

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People are responding to the title of the article referring to it as "hazing" though lower down it does use the words abuse and rape. They are also referring to the fact that while it sounds like some are facing prosecution, not all are - the article mentioned the wrestling coach still being employed by the school and a principal just moving to another school despite knowing and condoning the abuse. Also - did you notice (not just you ChocolateReign but everyone) that the article said that townies in the schools where this happened are for the rapists and are down on those who reported the abuse? That just blew my mind.

 

That article kind of went all over the place. I am not sure why they included the 5th graders who assaulted the 3rd grader in the restroom as that didn't fit the "hazing" profile the article presented.

I believe the word hazing is being used because of the assaults usually being centered around sports teams. I also don't believe that is what the assaults are usually called by school authorities (with the cult like mentality being displayed in the case you mentioned being a possible exception).

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The principal that moved was the father of the victim. He didn't condone the abuse, but obviously he didn't have enough power to change the culture. I have no idea why he couldn't have at least expelled the rapists. I'm sure he moved to save his son from being bullied even more.

 

I guess I saw not reporting them to the police as condoning it. I can't quite fathom that esp. if it were my child.

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Legally in most states it would be regarded as sexual assault, and yes, it is generally prosecuted as a crime. I am not sure why you think otherwise.

 

I am not speaking about the prosecution or legal aspects. i am speaking about the article itself, and the language used.

 

Words MEAN things. This is NOT mere "hazing", and by calling it such it doesn't send the same sort of message as using other language. That this would be somehow viewed as less-than-rape by any news writer is disturbing to me. Maybe it doesn't bother anyone else, but for me, it is one of the reasons we tend not to take certain acts as seriously as we ought to...because we have labeled them with more benign words than was deserved.

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The problem is that it's just a paid content article. It's not a real news article. The author of the original article that it links back to clearly takes it more seriously: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-20/sodomy-hazing-leaves-13-year-old-victim-outcast-in-colorado-town.html

 

I hate this trend of paid content writers. Most of them are untrained hacks and their articles are crap.

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So proud...one is my city, and another one neighbors where I grew up. The masonry incident involved a special ed student. Very upsetting when the story first came out. Incidents like this disgust me, and these stories are just the ones where the boys are brave enough to speak up.

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He did report it to the police.

 

He did? All I saw was that he confronted the wrestling coach.

 

But Mrs. Mungo is correct that this was a poor article. ETA - I now see that the detail that the father reported it to the police was in the better written article which I did not read until now.

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He did? All I saw was that he confronted the wrestling coach.

 

But Mrs. Mungo is correct that this was a poor article. ETA - I now see that the detail that the father reported it to the police was in the better written article which I did not read until now.

 

Yes, the original was much better. The Yahoo article was a train wreck.

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there are 24,651 public secondary schools (middle and high school) in the United States as of the 2009-10 school year. http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=84

 

You are interpreting the article referenced with a broad brush. Public school represent the cultures and average education levels of the towns where they are located.

 

I don't think this says anything about high school in general.

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I don't think it means all ps re bad but it is still very sad that something like this is happening and people are not getting up in arms about it. When are we going to react? When it starts to happen in thousands of school? I don't believe that these things only happen in schools. From what I understand if the wrestling team is a county team it may happen there too but the fact that it is happening and people are not condemning it speaks volumes to me. It is very sad

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This is terrible and irresponsible journalism. All the fear-inducing exaggeration at the beginning and all the facts much further down.

 

For example, taking sex abuse statistics and implying that all of those cases were "an** hazing":

 

There’s a dearth of data concerning the size and scope of the national boy-on-boy anal hazing problem. Astonishingly, though, a study published in the Journal of Youth and Adolescence has claimed that nearly 10 percent of high school males report suffering some form of sexual assault including, in some cases, forced oral sex or rape.

 

 

Which gets readers but is a real disservice to the victims of sexual assault, including those who are assaulted in this way. These are terrible crimes and I hope that the people involved are punished, but this paid content stuff is never a good idea, especially if they aren't even offering the readers a by-line.

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He did? All I saw was that he confronted the wrestling coach.

 

But Mrs. Mungo is correct that this was a poor article. ETA - I now see that the detail that the father reported it to the police was in the better written article which I did not read until now.

 

 

Yes, he reported it to the police which caused an uproar in the town. People even wore t-shirts in support of the perpetrators. It really sounds like an awful situation.

 

http://www.nbc11news.com/localnews/headlines/149255115.html

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/21/duct-taped-sodomized-ostracized-colo-town-turns-on-13-year-old-alleged-sexual-assault-victim/

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I hate to say it, but hazing becoming sexual isn't a new thing-that's one reason (along with alcohol abuse causing multiple deaths) why, in the 1980s/early 1990s many colleges became really down on hazing to the point that fraternities/sororities almost couldn't have any sort of pledging process whatsoever, and it wasn't unknown on high school sports teams/clubs, either. I don't know that it's ever been common practice, but it's something I remember hearing about as a high school student (my parents definitely believed that forewarned is forearmed-I was taught how to tell a situation is getting bad and how to get out of such a situation and what to do when you believe it's happening to people you know because of things that had happened on college campuses).

 

It's also a common plot point in mystery novels and TV shows-teen is violated as part of being on the football team or whatever, teen snaps and kills someone (or he tells his dad and his dad does-often the coach/faculty sponsor is the target because he should have prevented it) and the whole awful situation comes to life as the case is investigated.

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It's sickening. A s s a u l t and r a p e are not hazing and should be reported and prosecuted. My state is one of the cases listed and many sports fans were furious that the athletes were going to punished for team stuff.

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Longtime lurker here. When I read this I just had to register so I could comment.

 

As background information I lived in the big city(Houston area) for 25+ years starting when I was 16. Prior to that I grew up in a small town in WV. I now live in s state that neighbors Colorado in a similar small town ranching community.

 

I can totally see those kids of attitudes would happen in the community where I live. People here do not like "outsiders" questioning anything, and you are an "outsider" if your family has not lived here for generations.

 

The current school scandal here is that an Educational Assistant was recently suspended and is under investigation by the state police for having "inappropriate relationships" with students.this is translated to meaning under age girlfriends. Turns out that the superintendent had been trying to get proof of the relationship since September, but staff members who knew would not come forward. He had to threaten the other staff members with police action towards them for failure to report before anyone would say anything.

 

At the time, I worked for Headstart which is completely separate from the public school in administration, but we have the same families. When I went to tell my supervisor of the issue because the EA has a child in our program, my supervisor (who is a local) told me something along the lines of that she knew he had teenage girlfriends because that was why the child's mom left left home in the fall. Apparently here it is accepted as normal for older men to have very young girlfriends.

 

After living in Houston for all those years, I see this more of an issue in these very small communities. In Houston, parents would not hesitate to call the police and media if there was a even a hint that the school was allowing child abuse/sexual abuse to happen. Here everyone is supposed to mind their own business.

 

I had been on the fence about pulling my son out of the school here, but that incident made my decision very easy. In my line of thinking, if staff will cover up such a serious issue as child sexual abuse, I do not feel that they will even attempt to protect my child from the local bullies (and my kid is not even the bullies' target right now)

 

 

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I am sure you are right, that it isn't common as a whole. At least I'd like to think so. However, they cited 40 cases...the reported cases. That means we all know there are far more than just 40.

 

What disturbs me most, I think, is that they are calling this "hazing". If it weren't occurring in a school setting, it would be called what it is...rape. Why are they not calling it that?

 

 

Unfortunately its not just limited to the school setting. The workforce has similar groups that cause the same sort of behaviour.

 

Just yesterday hubby was telling me about this story. An autistic man was working, and a co-worker came over, said something rude to him, splashed petrol (or something similar) on to the boy/man's crotch, and then set his crotch on fire. The autistic boy rolled around and put the fire out, went and told the boss, I did remember exactly what he told me, but the end of it was that the guy got off scot-free, and got to keep his job, and the autistic boy got fired.

 

:sneaky2:

 

Here we go:

 

Lawyers Question Workplace Bullying Protection

 

Young Guy with High Functioning Autism Set on fire at work

 

Pretty much all bullying seems to have some sort of sexual undercurrent lately. And the fact its not just limited to schools or neighbourhoods, but happens inside what is supposed to be a civilized place of work, is just astounding, as its not just limited to children, but to adults who are in positions of power (teachers, superintendants, bosses). :cursing:

 

When I've had to delay getting DS' assessment, this has made me question, again, whether to get him assessed, :crying: I already freak out over everything, now I have to worry over this too. What if by taking him to the assessment place, I am putting in the position of the boy above? :crying: I've really had enough of the world, where's my bubble?

 

And its most definitely not hazing its abuse. And it has to start being taken seriously. If i didn't have kids to take care of I would be flying over to these people and giving them a whats for.

 

:sneaky2:

 

As an ex-abused teen myself, I understand that something like this even "one little supposedly harmless (bull****) playful incident" can really affect the rest of a persons life. Yes, some children bounce back, and pull on thicker armour, BUT THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO. And a lot of children suffer and are never the same, even if the seem like they are fine.

 

The world is just a faux reality with a thin veneer of civility, but the sad fact is a lot of the world is full of savages, idiots, and people who seem to have no empathy towards others, and have the nerve to judge people. (and the irony of it is that I, myself, am an open and forgiving person, but it seems for anyone to take notice you must *judge* which is just wrong. People should naturally see the difference between right and wrong, and do their best to protect their children from that which is wrong (like abuse).

 

Its funny if you go out, everyone acts completely civil, driving in their cars, following the rules, but if the end of the world hit, you can bet that pretty made up woman projecting the air of calm, peace and kindness would turn into a savage animal if you had the last can of food, would run you off the road, and tear into you with her professionally manicured nails. As a culture, human beings seem to have the greatest ability in denial and looking the other way, till it affects them. :toetap05:

 

Right, I'm getting off my soapbox (I apologize, although this *is* one of my nicer speeches regarding this subject). I really only have 3 subjects I get bristly about, special needs, child abuse and gay/people-equality rights. Since this was about one and reminded me of another, I got rather porcupined.

 

Thanks for reading (if anyone did) and thank you even more if you understood it (lol), I shall go now :leaving:

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So, I think we have to avoid sweeping generalizations - there are some terrible schools out there - but there are some terrific schools also..

 

 

Yes, no matter how popular homeschooling has become, they overwhelming majority of students in this country attend public schools, so it only follows that the overwhelming majority of any negative action among school age children will take place among public schoolers.

 

I dare say hazing takes place in private schools as well.

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Yes, no matter how popular homeschooling has become, they overwhelming majority of students in this country attend public schools, so it only follows that the overwhelming majority of any negative action among school age children will take place among public schoolers.

 

I dare say hazing takes place in private schools as well.

 

It can't be called hazing because it isn't institutional but s*xual abuse takes place in homes (and homeschools) as well.

 

It isn't the fact that it happens at all (though it gives me much grief that it does) but the fact that in many places it is accepted and institutionalized that points out the need for societal change. These cases were the ones reported. How many other cases have there been that were not reported? I bet many of those kids and even adults doing or condoning the abuse had the same or similar done to them. It kills me because even if these kids seem to be doing fine on the surface many of them aren't and many of them go on to become abusers themselves. The one good thing I've seen (in the area where I live anyway) is a "no tolerance" rule being set up for hazing of any kind - even the innocuous pranks because they can degenerate into something like this. Plus - there is a bully mentality that is ingrained in it.

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Are they serious? Is there ANYTHING positive about public schools these days?

 

Is this hyperbole? Of course there is a lot positive about public schools these days. These days all children are given the privilege of an education free of charge. They don't have to work for it, their parents don't have to pay for it. They can be from divorced homes, have two mommies, or live in a car and still be offered an education. A child cannot be denied an education based on her race or physical or mental challenges. A child cannot be denied an education because of the religious or political affiliation of their family. Because literacy is directly related to income and health and a host of other variables that contribute to the concept of well-being, not only benefits the individual child, but it behooves us all as a society to avoid raising an uninformed, ignorant, illiterate generation. What on earth supports the suggestion that this is common place in all public schools? I mean, good grief, the same argument can be made for religious institutions.

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Is this hyperbole? Of course there is a lot positive about public schools these days. These days all children are given the privilege of an education free of charge. They don't have to work for it, their parents don't have to pay for it. They can be from divorced homes, have two mommies, or live in a car and still be offered an education. A child cannot be denied an education based on her race or physical or mental challenges. A child cannot be denied an education because of the religious or political affiliation of their family. Because literacy is directly related to income and health and a host of other variables that contribute to the concept of well-being, not only benefits the individual child, but it behooves us all as a society to avoid raising an uninformed, ignorant, illiterate generation. What on earth supports the suggestion that this is common place in all public schools? I mean, good grief, the same argument can be made for religious institutions.

 

 

We have used the public schools before and it hasn't been a positive experience. I strongly disagree that they provide an education, I'm sure some schools do but neither of my kids learned anything positive or academic in nature despite being there from 8am to 5pm 5 days a week. DD12 brought home a report card with I think it was 3 D's and C in her academic subjects despite 9 hours a day of "education" this year. This is a child who is an A/B student at home using materials 2 years more advanced then the school uses. She was promoted to the next grade despite failing her academic classes IMO. I will not allow this to happen to her, I understand what happened but the school just passed her even though according to their tests she did not know the material. I was failed though school as well and I can assure you I learned NOTHING in school that was academic in nature, I learned that on my own through a love of books and PBS/Discovery/History Channel. Granted we have only attended schools in low income areas but all we have seen is low quality education and bullying/teasing.

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We have used the public schools before and it hasn't been a positive experience.

 

Are you under the impression your experiences are universal?

 

I strongly disagree that they provide an education,

 

Do you have an objective source (not personal experience) that leads you to this conclusion?

 

I'm sure some schools do but neither of my kids learned anything positive or academic in nature despite being there from 8am to 5pm 5 days a week. DD12 brought home a report card with I think it was 3 D's and C in her academic subjects despite 9 hours a day of "education" this year. This is a child who is an A/B student at home using materials 2 years more advanced then the school uses. She was promoted to the next grade despite failing her academic classes IMO. I will not allow this to happen to her, I understand what happened but the school just passed her even though according to their tests she did not know the material. I was failed though school as well and I can assure you I learned NOTHING in school that was academic in nature, I learned that on my own through a love of books and PBS/Discovery/History Channel. Granted we have only attended schools in low income areas but all we have seen is low quality education and bullying/teasing.

 

 

I'm sorry this was your experience.

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We have used the public schools before and it hasn't been a positive experience. I strongly disagree that they provide an education, I'm sure some schools do but neither of my kids learned anything positive or academic in nature despite being there from 8am to 5pm 5 days a week. DD12 brought home a report card with I think it was 3 D's and C in her academic subjects despite 9 hours a day of "education" this year. This is a child who is an A/B student at home using materials 2 years more advanced then the school uses. She was promoted to the next grade despite failing her academic classes IMO. I will not allow this to happen to her, I understand what happened but the school just passed her even though according to their tests she did not know the material. I was failed though school as well and I can assure you I learned NOTHING in school that was academic in nature, I learned that on my own through a love of books and PBS/Discovery/History Channel. Granted we have only attended schools in low income areas but all we have seen is low quality education and bullying/teasing.

 

So, you've had a bad experience. I'm sorry for your child and I'm sorry for your family. This is the kind of thing that does turn some people into homeschoolers. It's terrible that these things happen. This is going to run together because I can't press return. One bad experience at one school does not mean every school everywhere. In fact, there could be other children at the same school having a great experience. It's not just school management, it's also individual teachers, the child's peer group, and the actions of children themselves (there are some children who will just mess up in a traditional school environment and do great with the one on one tutoring/monitoring at home). It's all those factors. My older dc have attended public high school. We live in one of the highest performing districts in the country, but our neighborhood school is 35% free lunch so some people think it's a bad school. My dc have access to very advanced courses and take them. If they were in regular courses, I probably wouldn't think their education was that great. I know young people who graduated following the advanced courses and did extremely well in college, so academically the school is doing what it is supposed to do to prepare the students for higher level work. Socially, there's good and bad just like homeschool co op. dd doesn't care about the social stuff very much so mostly she is not sucked in. So, our experience with public high school has been OK. My oldest got through. By his choice he took all adv classes and he would have screwed up regular classes worse than the advanced classes. He has a difficult personality and I am certain I could not have homeschooled him through high school. dd is doing extremely well academically. The school offers her far more depth in all her academics plus a couple of cool electives. I do have friends whose dc did not fare as well at the same school (different child, different courses, different teachers, different peer group).

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Yes, no matter how popular homeschooling has become, they overwhelming majority of students in this country attend public schools, so it only follows that the overwhelming majority of any negative action among school age children will take place among public schoolers.

 

I dare say hazing takes place in private schools as well.

 

 

Oh heck, I remember reading about incidents of just this sort in British boarding schools inthe first half of the last century. It's far from a new problem.

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