How do you teach/train obedience?

[Aspasia]

Is that elusive enough? It's an elusive question for me, too. But I see it around, the idea of teaching obedience, and I just wonder what it means and how it's done.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't "teach obedience." I work on the relationship, make clear expectations,teach them right from wrong, and build an environment/supports to make it easy to do what is right, removing those scaffolds gradually as my kids become more able to handle things without them. I don't want my kids to "obey" me, I want my kids to do the right thing, for the right reasons. I do my best to set them up for success. It is not about me. It is about raising a kid who can function in society, have healthy relationship,and be whole.

[OrganicAnn]

We only teach "obedience" for emergency situations. So we talk about different situations - fire, medical emergency etc and what we might say or do.

 

Beyond that we have realistic ideas of what is age appropriate behaviors and we work with "house rules" and politeness. We do a lot of talking about expections of behavior before going somewhere (church, family event, birthday party, even grocery story). Of course as my DD got older this was not needed as much.

 

Parents being realistic and consistent is key I think.

[gardenmom5]

obedience training is for animals. I teach children correct principles, how to assess situations, and how to make good choices.

 

I want my kids to make good choices when no one is looking because that is who they are. if they are making choices becasue they are afraid of what their punishment will be if they're caught, they are making those choices for the wrong reasons.

[Mama Geek]

Every time a child doesn't do what they are told or says no you correct it. I don't think the method of correction necessarily matters, but the consistency does.

[bolt.]

I teach "following instructions" (obedience is more a matter of the heart IMO).

 

I teach following instructions starting with a set of key words that I "show and tell" toddlers for about a year -- before I expect them to respond. I hardly ever give instructions that aren't key words, and that I can't "help" the child by physically (gently!) demonstrating what that key word means. Whenever I "show and tell" a key word, I tell the child they did a good job (even though, technically, I did it). The key words are very limited, concrete, and specific.

 

By the end if that phase, their sense of "Mama's instructions always get followed" is right down deep with information like "stuff I drop always falls downward" -- giving my words a great deal of strength.

 

As they get older, I give more complex instructions, and usually the habit to follow those instructions holds fast. If it does not, I 'drop down' to one of my key words -- then re-connect with the child and figure out what the problem is. I remind them that "following instructions is an important part if being a happy family" and (when possible) re-do the situation and have them follow the instruction as if it was the first time.

 

This kind of semi-confrontational event is very rare, though. I don't often actually use direct instructions as a parenting tool (yes, daily, but not all day, every day) -- there are much more co-operative ways to show leadership to children: which often happen to be more effective too. Those are the ones I use all day every day.

[Aspasia]

I'm not talking about making decisions based on what I want them to do. I'm talking about thorough compliance with a decent attitude when I ask a kid to do something around the house, as opposed to complaining or sloppy compliance. I'm talking about a child stopping a behavior when I ask them to stop (such as rolling on the baby(!) or what have you), as opposed to completely ignoring me. I'm talking about getting my kids to listen and respond to me. For the most part, it isn't a big problem, but sometimes it definitely is. With the rolling on the baby, I certainly do get up and move the child off the baby (what is with that!), but it would be nice if I could give him a reminder and he would just stop it. It would be nice if dd would do what she's asked with a good attitude and with thoroughness, instead of crying and complaining over little things. I see people talk about teaching obedience, and I just wonder if this is what they're talking about.

[Shellydon]

I teach my children to do things when I ask them too. When I say, "Please pick up your plate and put it in the sink" I expect them to obey and do just that. If they don't, they get corrected.

[Shellydon]

I'm not talking about making decisions based on what I want them to do. I'm talking about thorough compliance with a decent attitude when I ask a kid to do something around the house, as opposed to complaining or sloppy compliance. I'm talking about a child stopping a behavior when I ask them to stop (such as rolling on the baby(!) or what have you), as opposed to completely ignoring me. I'm talking about getting my kids to listen and respond to me. For the most part, it isn't a big problem, but sometimes it definitely is. With the rolling on the baby, I certainly do get up and move the child off the baby (what is with that!), but it would be nice if I could give him a reminder and he would just stop it. It would be nice if dd would do what she's asked with a good attitude and with thoroughness, instead of crying and complaining over little things. I see people talk about teaching obedience, and I just wonder if this is what they're talking about.

 

They aren't always going to do what you ask with a good attitude, but you CAN teach them to do it the majority of the time. If someone slams the door, I have that kiddo go shut the door gently 10 times. If someone has a sassy mouth, I have her repeat phrase in different way with a nice voice. Sloppy compliance equals doing the work again, then one extra similar chore done correctly. Crying and complaining always means additional work at our house. Occasional nice complaining is perfectly fine. It takes consistency and repetition, but it can happen. You have to make sure that they are not hearing mom and dad complain about chores/working etc. too.

[bolt.]

I'm not talking about making decisions based on what I want them to do. I'm talking about thorough compliance with a decent attitude when I ask a kid to do something around the house, as opposed to complaining or sloppy compliance. I'm talking about a child stopping a behavior when I ask them to stop (such as rolling on the baby(!) or what have you), as opposed to completely ignoring me. I'm talking about getting my kids to listen and respond to me. For the most part, it isn't a big problem, but sometimes it definitely is. With the rolling on the baby, I certainly do get up and move the child off the baby (what is with that!), but it would be nice if I could give him a reminder and he would just stop it. It would be nice if dd would do what she's asked with a good attitude and with thoroughness, instead of crying and complaining over little things. I see people talk about teaching obedience, and I just wonder if this is what they're talking about.

OK, those are some great specifics! Let me tell you how what I "would do" (if I was my ideal self all the time LOL!) might fit into your situation.

 

1. I don't "ask" children to do things around the house. I generally when-then them into making a good choice. Examples: "When the table is clear and clean, (then) I will serve a snack." or "You may come out of your room when it is good and tidy in my eyes"

 

I have a thick skin and am usually fine with children ( a ) having hard feelings about annoying tasks and ( b ) talking about those feelings to me. I usually say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. There are days I hate doing xyz too. The sooner you have xyz done, the sooner... <whatever>."

 

Sloppiness would simply not lead to the "then" -- I would say, "Oh, not ready yet. I notice a, b, and c. I hope you will be done soon. I'm looking forward to <whatever>."

 

(Note, it doesn't have to be a "reward" it's often just "what's next" -- because lots of likable things happen all day long. I just make some of those things wait until dis-likable things are accomplished.)

 

If I can't when-then them, I drop down to (cheerful) direct step-by-step instructions with full supervision. "Come here." // "Pick that up." // "Put it neatly over there." etc. At older ages, that quickly progresses to larger chunks of the task and intermittent supervision instead.

 

2. Stopping a physical behaviour: I would usually give a clear concrete command like, "Stand up." (Not "what to stop" instead "what to do") If the child did not do so swiftly, I would pick the child up and stand him/her on his/her feet. (If the child was young, I'd pause and say, "Good! I said stand up, and here, you are standing. Great!") If the child was beyond the "show and tell phase" chances are they'd hate being manhandled like that. If they don't like being manhandled, they will soon stop ignoring your words -- especially if you stick to key words (especially for re-occuring situations).

 

Later, there is a lot of time for teaching things like ( a ) that they baby is a person, ( b ) that all people 'own' their own bodies, ( c ) that body-crushing is not OK to do to anyone. This teaching will take a while to sink in. Try doing it daily, and involve puppets, toys or what-have-you to demonstrate things. Make it a nice cozy teaching time. I recommend cookies.

 

3. They will respond when your words become concrete, predictable actions. Otherwise they are just "information about how mommy feels" -- which doesn't go far with little kids. If they know that "stand up" means "do it yourself, or it will just happen to you" they will begin to weave that knowledge into their view of the world.

 

4. Sometimes a behaviour like rolling on the baby "works" for a child because it draws your attention instantly and reliably. I suggest you get something else going on that your child can count on to instantly and reliably draw your full attention. My kids had a tiger mask and any time they wore it, I did a "scared" thing, including a full volume scream. That seemed to satisfy their desire to 'start something dramatic with mommy' -- so I think it was a good thing. I made sure to do it every time with full enthusiasm. It only took 10 seconds.

[Aspasia]

OK, those are some great specifics! Let me tell you how what I "would do" (if I was my ideal self all the time LOL!) might fit into your situation.

 

1. I don't "ask" children to do things around the house. I generally when-then them into making a good choice. Examples: "When the table is clear and clean, (then) I will serve a snack." or "You may come out of your room when it is good and tidy in my eyes"

 

I have a thick skin and am usually fine with children ( a ) having hard feelings about annoying tasks and ( b ) talking about those feelings to me. I usually say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. There are days I hate doing xyz too. The sooner you have xyz done, the sooner... <whatever>."

 

Sloppiness would simply not lead to the "then" -- I would say, "Oh, not ready yet. I notice a, b, and c. I hope you will be done soon. I'm looking forward to <whatever>."

 

(Note, it doesn't have to be a "reward" it's often just "what's next" -- because lots of likable things happen all day long. I just make some of those things wait until dis-likable things are accomplished.)

 

If I can't when-then them, I drop down to (cheerful) direct step-by-step instructions with full supervision. "Come here." // "Pick that up." // "Put it neatly over there." etc. At older ages, that quickly progresses to larger chunks of the task and intermittent supervision instead.

 

2. Stopping a physical behaviour: I would usually give a clear concrete command like, "Stand up." (Not "what to stop" instead "what to do") If the child did not do so swiftly, I would pick the child up and stand him/her on his/her feet. (If the child was young, I'd pause and say, "Good! I said stand up, and here, you are standing. Great!") If the child was beyond the "show and tell phase" chances are they'd hate being manhandled like that. If they don't like being manhandled, they will soon stop ignoring your words -- especially if you stick to key words (especially for re-occuring situations).

 

Later, there is a lot of time for teaching things like ( a ) that they baby is a person, ( b ) that all people 'own' their own bodies, ( c ) that body-crushing is not OK to do to anyone. This teaching will take a while to sink in. Try doing it daily, and involve puppets, toys or what-have-you to demonstrate things. Make it a nice cozy teaching time. I recommend cookies.

 

3. They will respond when your words become concrete, predictable actions. Otherwise they are just "information about how mommy feels" -- which doesn't go far with little kids. If they know that "stand up" means "do it yourself, or it will just happen to you" they will begin to weave that knowledge into their view of the world.

 

4. Sometimes a behaviour like rolling on the baby "works" for a child because it draws your attention instantly and reliably. I suggest you get something else going on that your child can count on to instantly and reliably draw your full attention. My kids had a tiger mask and any time they wore it, I did a "scared" thing, including a full volume scream. That seemed to satisfy their desire to 'start something dramatic with mommy' -- so I think it was a good thing. I made sure to do it every time with full enthusiasm. It only took 10 seconds.

 

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE all of this! Thank you so much! This is exactly the kind of stuff I need.

[Aspasia]

 

I have a thick skin and am usually fine with children ( a ) having hard feelings about annoying tasks and ( b ) talking about those feelings to me. I usually say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. There are days I hate doing xyz too. The sooner you have xyz done, the sooner... <whatever>."

 

 

 

I definitely don't mind dd being unhappy about doing chores. And I do sympathize with her and tell her I kind of don't feel like doing my chores today either. My problem with her is that she has a very dramatic melt down whenever I ask her to do the simplest task. It's just a bit much, you know?

[bolt.]

I have a place where it is ok to have a dramatic melt down. While I still have my cool I say something like, "You are melting down. Can you compose yourself, or will you need to go (wherever)." Anything other than composure leads to, "It's time for you to go (wherever). Will you walk, or shall I lift you?" Anything other than walking leads to carrying, then, "When you have yourself composed feel free to come out. Do you need anything (glass if water? Book?)" Anything other than staying located results in being carried back to the appropriate place.... Lather, rinse, repeat. It's an easy enough flow chart that it should take only a few major incidents before it sinks in.

 

Once composure has returned, do something to make the child feel welcome back, and to affirm that they (eventually) figured out how to compose them-self. Spend a few moments there before returning to the original when-then. Repeat the whole thing again if nessisary (but consider if the child might be near the end of their rope for other reasons).

 

Keep in mind that a child might not react so dramatically to a positive-feeling when-then as they do to a direct instruction. It's not 'nice' to get direct instructions so I try to inflict them sparingly, and I anticipate that I might need to deal with an emotional reaction.

[Shellydon]

Make sure that the meltdown never results in not doing what was asked. I use "You can sit in time out (or go to your room or get a spanking) THEN do XYZ, or you can just do XYZ. You pick."