nt

[Mom0012]

Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate the support and ideas. I really can't discuss this anymore now. I'm going to talk to the ortho about it. If anyone who quoted me, could erase my quote, I'd appreciate it. The last thing I want is for my dd to find this post sometime in the future.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Pastel

[Mom0012]

nt

[Guest submarines]

I haven't experienced this, but this (and others) are the reasons we are not going to do braces for our children unless they happen to have a medical need for them.

[lavender's green]

My mom and her identical twin have differently-shaped faces now because twin got braces in her early 20s and mom didn't (you can track the changes in pictures). I don't think it affected their noses, though.

[mrs.m]

My face changed when I had invisalign as an adult. It was for the positive though. I look thinner and my teeth no longer have gaps. But my nose still has the bump I developed as a teen without braces. No nose changes and it didn't feel like my nose was moving or changing when they moved my teeth, I think the boy in that video was going to develop into an elongated face as he aged. That was an extreme profile and used for that Dr's advertisement to sell his methods.

[Mom0012]

nt

[Mom0012]

nt

[Mom0012]

nt

[mrs.m]

Does anyone else in your family have that type of nose? Grandparents, ect? I had a cute nose when I was a kid. 😠But it now looks a lot like my aunt's nose. I would question the jaw alignment problem. Although during treatment, things can seem a bit off. You don't want a TMJ problem in later years. Worse comes to worse, get a second opinion.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

My youngest had a round face and turned-up, pointy little nose until he hit puberty. Now he had a elongated-face and an elongated looking nose to match. He had braces well into puberty (13-15), but since he looks other family members (he's a clone of my grandfather who didn't have braces), I don't relate the facial changes to braces.

[Word Nerd]

It seems more likely that the changes are because of the sudden growth spurt you said she had. Gently, I hope you are not unintentionally burdening your DD with your worries about her changing face and nose.

[sparrow]

I noticed my daughter's nose is changing (she's 11) and just attribute it to growing older. She has a Nance appliance and a lower wire now, but will have braces in the future, which I expect will change her jaw structure. My son is almost done with braces, including some *serious* band wearing, and it has not changed any part of his facial structure. He has hit puberty and just looks kind of, ahem, awkward ;). Cute, but awkward.

[Mom0012]

nt

[Mom0012]

nt

[Mom0012]

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[Mom0012]

nt

[lea1]

I think I would show the ortho the video above or tell him about it (he's probably heard of that type of treatment) and see what he has to say about that type of treatment VS the type he practices. It would be interesting to hear his point of view on the differences between the two treatment types and how that boy's face was impacted by the braces (or not).

 

I hope you update this post after your meeting so we can hear what he had to say. My sons are too young for braces now and I don't know if they will need them or not but it would be good information to have when considering the options. I had never heard of facial changes with braces so I find this kind of shocking.

[sparrow]

My dd is 11 too. Did yours have this appliance while these changes began to occur or after?

 

 

Her nose started changing in the last 6 months. She just got the Nance 3 weeks ago.

[Mom0012]

nt

[Mom0012]

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[celticmom]

I had major orthodonic intervention(that was very needed) as a teen. The changes in my facial shape were below my nose. My nose, cheekbones and eyes were unaffected.

[dirty ethel rackham]

All of my kids had their noses change significantly during puberty. It seems to grow first and the rest of the face seems to catch up later. My boys did not get braces until they were older than most kids because they have this annoying habit of not losing baby teeth and not getting permanent teeth in until much later than the most kids their age. Unless they have had a significant number of teeth pulled or are wearing headgear, I don't think braces would cause drastic changes to the profile. The video to me looked like many boys I know as they went through puberty - some who never had braces.

[Caroline]

All of my kids had their noses change significantly during puberty. It seems to grow first and the rest of the face seems to catch up later. My boys did not get braces until they were older than most kids because they have this annoying habit of not losing baby teeth and not getting permanent teeth in until much later than the most kids their age. Unless they have had a significant number of teeth pulled or are wearing headgear, I don't think braces would cause drastic changes to the profile. The video to me looked like many boys I know as they went through puberty - some who never had braces.

 

I have to agree. My kids also lose baby teeth late and get permanent ones late. My oldest didn't get braces until he was 15. (My next is only 12 and no mention of braces, yet.) He went through the awkward puberty stage, and I am sure it has nothing to do with braces. I do think his nose grew first.

[Mom0012]

nt

[GailV]

I recall the thread about palate expanders changing facial shape, and I recall being surprised someone would think that's negative. So many people have a "pinched" look to their faces, and the palate expander helps correct that extreme narrowness. If you google Weston Price and/or look into some of the Nourishing Traditions websites, you'll see plenty of pictures showing the broader look of a healthy palate contrasted to a narrow, crowded palate.

 

My younger dd looks quite different with braces since she has all those lumps on her teeth -- the skin is being pulled around more "stuff". This could conceivably pull the skin of the nose differently, too; coupled with a growth spurt, it could be noticeable.

 

Edited to add: I can't even count the girls I see who are cute little kids, then quite ... plain looking, ahem ... basis their facial structures during puberty, and then are beautiful when they've finished their main growth spurts. And boys, too, come to think about it. A lot of kids take a while for their facial features to get organized, it seems.

[Mom0012]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17488997

[molon labe]

I recall the thread about palate expanders changing facial shape, and I recall being surprised someone would think that's negative. So many people have a "pinched" look to their faces, and the palate expander helps correct that extreme narrowness. If you google Weston Price and/or look into some of the Nourishing Traditions websites, you'll see plenty of pictures showing the broader look of a healthy palate contrasted to a narrow, crowded palate.

 

My younger dd looks quite different with braces since she has all those lumps on her teeth -- the skin is being pulled around more "stuff". This could conceivably pull the skin of the nose differently, too; coupled with a growth spurt, it could be noticeable.

 

Edited to add: I can't even count the girls I see who are cute little kids, then quite ... plain looking, ahem ... basis their facial structures during puberty, and then are beautiful when they've finished their main growth spurts. And boys, too, come to think about it. A lot of kids take a while for their facial features to get organized, it seems.

I am also familiar with Weston Price and Nourishing Traditions. I recall reading that the body places the spine as the first priority in allotting vitamins and minerals and the bones of the face last. The theory is that a lack of bone building nutrients, particularly at times of rapid growth like puberty, can result in the narrow, pinched face (which has all sorts of implications including affected breathing). I think the reasoning behind the bump on the nose was the soft inner tissues of the nose continue to grow but not the hard, bony structure which can result in a bump. http://nourishedkitchen.com/the-teeth-tell-the-tale/?utm_source=Newsletter+List&utm_campaign=c8a3f24ed2-NOC+8&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3d91fcefcb-c8a3f24ed2-269706145

[kitten18]

Yes, I've certainly seen the awkwardness of puberty in many kids, including my son. This does seem different. Dirty Ethel Rackham mentioned changes with headgear and there are all kinds of published studies showing the changes headgear makes to the overall profile, including the jaw and nose. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17488997

 

I wish that information had been disclosed to me. I thought teeth were being moved and nothing else. My dd's face was already beautiful and I would never have agreed to any changes. I didn't notice the changes until recently. She had just stopped wearing the headgear and started with the bands. I wonder if things just became more apparent in this last phase of treatment? Still, I don't discount the effects of puberty. If nothing else, I hope the doctor can give me some reassurance. Thanks.

That is generally the purpose of the headgear, to change the shape of the jaw, to correct an overbite.

[Mom0012]

nt

[Laura Corin]

Everyone in my family has an aquiline nose. Both of my children had ski-slope noses when they were small - a small nose is developmentally appropriate for birth and breastfeeding. Calvin's nose started to grow and change shape before he had braces. It is now very similar to my older brother's (OB never had braces). His profile is appropriate to his genetics.

 

Hobbes is in braces now. He is going to have a three stage process because he has an unusually small bottom jaw which is causing his bottom teeth to cut into his palate. This malformation means that he will have special procedures to encourage stretching and growth in his bottom jaw. I expect him also to get a hooked nose - but that's just genetics.

 

How does the rest of your family look? Do any of them have noses similar to the one you see developing in your daughter?

 

L

[Mom0012]

nt

[Corraleno]

My DS has braces for an overbite; his teeth were perfectly straight and did not stick out, but the problem with his bite meant that in order to fully close his mouth, his lower jaw was pushed back, with this bottom teeth completely behind his top teeth. This made his face look shorter and rounder than it should have been. Now that his jaw is coming forward into a more correct alignment, his face also looks longer and thinner, but the change is a big improvement. When I was debating whether to go ahead with braces for DS, the orthodontist showed me several before and after pics of other patients with the same level of overbite, and I could see a huge improvement in both the profile and front view. I could totally picture the difference it would make in DS's face, and it was one of the factors that convinced me to do it.

 

He has also had a HUGE growth spurt in the last 2 years (6'3" as a 14 yr old), while he has had braces. His nose is definitely bigger and more "mannish," but he had a really tiny Irish kiddy nose to begin with, so now it's just a more normal adult nose. I have a couple of nieces who were super cute little kids, then looked pretty awful between about 11 & 15 or so, and now (at 17 & 20) are back to being pretty. I think it's fairly normal for adolescents to go through a really gawky, awkward stage when various facial features and body parts seem disproportionate, and in most case it has nothing to do with braces.

 

Jackie

[Ali in OR]

I understand braces/headgear changing the jawline, or a palate expander broadening the lower face. But I think I would feel pretty silly suggesting to the orthodontist that rubber bands (which pull lower jaw molars forward to adjust the bite) caused a bump on my daughter's nose. Can't see any reason why the physics of braces would do that. Chalk it up to puberty/growth/genetics and don't beat yourself up about fixing bite issues with braces.

[Mom0012]

nt

[Mom0012]

nt

[LMA]

I've had braces as a teenager with headgear and pulled teeth. Two of my kids have braces. One had a palate expander in Phase I. The other just had one set of braces and has worn lots of rubber bands. The bands change the way the teeth move. The braces will change your profile but I have not heard of nose shapes changing. The major changes for my kids have been their mouth and jaw profiles, which is what the orthodontist explained. They had a jaw alignment problem. My kids' noses have changed as in growing but the rest of them is changing also. So, I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that rubber bands change the tip of a nose. Your daughter may be just growing.

[mrs.m]

No one has a hooked nose in my family. It's just upsetting because she doesn't look like "her" and I think it's the result of the procedure. It doesn't suit her. I'm going to see if there is anything the ortho can do to minimize this or if there will be further changes as she grows that may balance things out. Thanks.

what about on her father's side? Aunts and uncles on that side? My son looks exactly like my grandfather on my dad's side. It can go pretty far back.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

Thanks, Jackie. I do know kids can look pretty awful during the puberty years, and I don't even think that is the case with my dd. It bothers me that I may have caused changes in her features. I thought I was just straightening her teeth. In her case, the teeth were not that bad at all. In my time, nothing would have been done about them, but now everyone gets braces, so when the doctor recommended them, I just did it. That's part of the reason it bothers me so much. If her teeth had been a more severe case, it probably would have been well worth this issue. I know many people who have experienced positive changes to the face with braces and been very happy. In our case, I don't feel like it was worth it. I do appreciate the encouragement.

 

 

I think if she required headgear to correct her bite, then she's having more done than just "straightening", she has/had an alignment issue that could case dental problems in her future. My oldest had a Herbst appliance to correct his overbite. It was not a severe overbite, but the edge of his bottom teeth were being flattened by the pressure of his top teeth.

 

I think the ortho needs to explain to you exactly what he's correcting (cross bite, overbite, etc.) and what you can expect in the end. It doesn't sound like he's done that yet.

 

I'm so sorry that you are worried. Many 11 year olds don't look a thing like their grown-up selves.

 

Here's a prepubescent Taylor Swift....

[Corraleno]

Well, read the study I linked a little further up. The headgear does change the nose, so I don't feel "silly" asking a question about it. If the headgear caused this change, and I believe it could have, then I would at least like to ask the doctor if there is a chance it will improve over time or if there is anything that can be done. And it's not just a matter of a little bump. It's also a change in the shape and size of the nose.

 

I can't get access to the full study, but the abstract you linked just refers to correcting "maxillary prognathism, mandibular deficiency, and facial convexity." The facial structure they're describing is an upper jaw that sticks forward, a "receding chin," and overall facial structure that is too convex. Of course any orthodontic procedure that corrects a significant overbite or underbite will change the alignment of the upper and lower jaws — that's the whole point of the procedure. It usually results in a distinct improvement in the overall structure and "balance" of the face, as well as improvement in dental function.

 

But I don't see how braces, even with headgear, can make someone's nose bigger and create a bump in it. That sounds more like normal growth that happens at puberty.

 

Jackie