Demonizing Public School- discussion.

[Mergath]

I think there's a fine line between legitimate criticism of public schools and demonization. Most of us are going to disagree on where that line is. I know I've crossed the line on more than one occasion, probably because I had such a horrific experience in school.

 

The idea that public schools are indoctrination factories trying to crank out liberal lesbian feminists, or whatever they're supposed to be doing, is ridiculous.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Eh - calling public schools "government schools" might be a political or even a biased statement, as people seem to be implying in this thread. Or it might be a simple declaration of fact. Sometimes people seem to forget that public schools aren't really run by the principal - even though that is the public face they see. Sometimes they forget that while the school board and superintendent do make an awful lot of decisions for a school district and the schools it contains, it doesn't stop there either. (Though the whole school board/superintendent thing is part of local government.) When I was a public school teacher I was a government employee.

[Orthodox6]

So long as we are at it, why aren't we bashing private schools, individual tutoring, and self-education also? :rolleyes:

[MotherOfBoys]

I like the idea of calling them government schools because it sums it up pretty well. I am for schools open to the public if the parents feel that is what's best for their child but it's the government involvement and funding that I'm not for. They mess things up. I don't demonize public schools because I have a lot of ps teacher friends that think my kids could be a light to the other kids. Which my kids will, at the park or store, but not that far out of my sight till they are more equipped. My relatives tend to be the hs bashers because of there lack of understanding of what socialization really is.

[Orthodox6]

I think there's a fine line between legitimate criticism of public schools and demonization. Most of us are going to disagree on where that line is. I know I've crossed the line on more than one occasion, probably because I had such a horrific experience in school.

 

The idea that public schools are indoctrination factories trying to crank out liberal lesbian feminists, or whatever they're supposed to be doing, is ridiculous.

 

 

While I don't rule out that the current direction in "public/government" schools is toward mindless conformity with political correctness and toward utilitarian preparation for someone's perception of usefulness to the world, I'll side with this post for now. Individual teachers do have specific agenda, and do attempt to impose them on students.

 

One of our sons has just been graduated from college, and has just entered graduate school to obtain a M.A. in education with teaching certification. He is naive enough to hope that he can be effective in a field where good people are more essential than ever. He does, however, recognize that the most useful element of his master's degree will consist primarily of learning techniques for crowd control.

[SarahW]

Eh - calling public schools "government schools" might be a political or even a biased statement, as people seem to be implying in this thread. Or it might be a simple declaration of fact. Sometimes people seem to forget that public schools aren't really run by the principal - even though that is the public face they see. Sometimes they forget that while the school board and superintendent do make an awful lot of decisions for a school district and the schools it contains, it doesn't stop there either. (Though the whole school board/superintendent thing is part of local government.) When I was a public school teacher I was a government employee.

 

 

 

Why split hairs?

 

If a person always uses "The Government" as an expletive to indicate everything bad and wrong (and anti-Christian and out-to-get-them), then it's not a stretch to believe that when they use the term "government schools" they mean "government" the same way.

 

Since you come from a different background that term may simply slip by you. But I can assure you that for those from a different background it is a very loaded term.

[AimeeM]

I see it a lot as well - locally in my homeschool community, on other boards, and... well, on this board (for example when a parent is feeling burnt out or the child is developing an attitude and Mom considers public school, often she'll get the reply "well, public school CERTAINLY isn't going to HELP!" - given, this is probably the board that demonizes ps the LEAST, but I've still seen it happen). Locally, it often comes in the form of "where did she get that attitude if she isn't going to public school?!", referring to a complaint I made about my 11 year old rolling her eyes at me, lol.

[Aspasia]

Whenever I engage in something that might be construed as bashing ps, it is a conversation about the flaws of the system, and that conversation is almost always led by ps teachers, ps parents, and government leaders. Our ps system does have a lot of issues, and since educational philosophy is something that fascinates me, I follow that conversation closely. I am a proud product of the ps system. It was a good fit for me. I homeschool for various reasons that have nothing to do with religion or politics or even academics (though some of my reasons are certainly academic). Some of my reasons are definitely social.

 

However, I would obviously never look at a ps school kid and blame his problems on where he goes to school. I don't care for the idea that everything "different" about my kids is the result of them not going to preschool or public school. If anything, homeschooling should make us LESS inclined to blame school choice for a kid's differences or shortcomings.

 

Homeschoolers who truly demonize ps are far and away the exception in my experience. But that could be because I tend to shy away from certain homeschool types who might be more likely to do it--like the ones who consider homeschool a mandate from God or the ones who are suspicious of everything government related.

[Orthodox6]

I see it a lot as well - locally in my homeschool community, on other boards, and... well, on this board (for example when a parent is feeling burnt out or the child is developing an attitude and Mom considers public school, often she'll get the reply "well, public school CERTAINLY isn't going to HELP!" - given, this is probably the board that demonizes ps the LEAST, but I've still seen it happen). Locally, it often comes in the form of "where did she get that attitude if she isn't going to public school?!", referring to a complaint I made about my 11 year old rolling her eyes at me, lol.

 

 

I follow what you are saying. My spin, though, would be that if a parent and a child are not getting along well with each other, a harrassed, burdened teacher in an outside school is not going to be able or involved enough to ameliorate the existing situation. (In passing, "outside school" is the term I have adopted to describe non-homeschooling places for K-12 education. Covers public and private and saves words.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

Why split hairs?

 

If a person always uses "The Government" as an expletive to indicate everything bad and wrong (and anti-Christian and out-to-get-them), then it's not a stretch to believe that when they use the term "government schools" they mean "government" the same way.

 

Since you come from a different background that term may simply slip by you. But I can assure you that for those from a different background it is a very loaded term.

 

 

I split hairs because not everyone uses the term "the government" to indicate everything bad and wrong etc. Believe it or not, there are many examples of sentences where I could use the words "the government" as simply a reference to. . . the government. But of course it is a loaded term for some people. That is why I split hairs and didn't generalize that every time someone uses it they simply mean it to refer to something that isn't loaded. Why are you so intent on generalizing?

[Word Nerd]

Eh - calling public schools "government schools" might be a political or even a biased statement, as people seem to be implying in this thread. Or it might be a simple declaration of fact. Sometimes people seem to forget that public schools aren't really run by the principal - even though that is the public face they see. Sometimes they forget that while the school board and superintendent do make an awful lot of decisions for a school district and the schools it contains, it doesn't stop there either. (Though the whole school board/superintendent thing is part of local government.) When I was a public school teacher I was a government employee.

 

A homeschooler on another board who was openly hostile toward any educational option other than homeschooling boasted that she would never "sacrifice her children on the altar of government school." I don't think anyone had to wonder what her intent was in using the term.

[Jean in Newcastle]

A homeschooler on another board who was openly hostile toward any educational option other than homeschooling boasted that she would never "sacrifice her children on the altar of government school." I don't think anyone had to wonder what her intent was in using the term.

 

And your point is? That I was correct when I said that it could be used as a political or biased statement? Thank you for noticing! Or is your point that your one example proves that it is always used that way? Hmmm. Doesn't seem very logical. . .

[laughing lioness]

I am having a bit of an internal dilemma on the demonization of public school.

 

I guess my big question is- why must we demonize public school as homeschoolers?. Any thoughts? After all of these discussions with my MIL, I feel the need to send my son to the local PS just to prove a point! :)

 

Because many, many homeschoolers homeschool in reaction TO instead of proactively TOWARD. I am so sick of hearing homeschoolers perpetrate the idea that "even if we do nothing at home, it's better than if they were in public school." Really?!!!!

What it really boils down to is that many homeschool parents don't show up to do the work. We know many h.s. families like your dh who don't know basic skills - because "who really uses diagramming or algebra or a memorized poem in life anyway." Frankly it's hard to teach skill syou don't know. I didn't learn diagramming or how to memorize or science or math much beyond basic algebra or a host of other things I have had to learn in order to teach. It hasn't been easy or fun and I still feel like a retard in many areas, but hopefully, my kids will be better equipped than I was.

 

My thoughts? The government school system has a different vision than we do. We have a clear vision. It's not reactive- it's built on hours of reading and study and taking our kids education seriously (and believe me, our kids have, at times, rebelled against that because soo many of the homeschool homies don't).

 

Someone recently asked me what I would do differently with our graduated kids and honestly, my biggest regret is not putting our oldest in school. Again, not that I believe in the vision of gov school, but because she would not cooperate with us and she really needed to have someone besides us give her a good swift kick- either academically or socially.

 

We have the opposite problem than you. After 22 years of homeschooling, my in-laws are still demonizing homeschooling. It has taken it's toll on our family in ways I could never have imagined.

[SarahW]

I split hairs because not everyone uses the term "the government" to indicate everything bad and wrong etc. Believe it or not, there are many examples of sentences where I could use the words "the government" as simply a reference to. . . the government. But of course it is a loaded term for some people. That is why I split hairs and didn't generalize that every time someone uses it they simply mean it to refer to something that isn't loaded. Why are you so intent on generalizing?

 

Um, yes, some people use the term "government" in one way, and some people use the term in a different way.

 

Which is why I said "If a person always uses "The Government" as an expletive" IF

 

If you use it a different way, fine. But that doesn't erase the fact that there are some who use it in a derogatory way, and they fully intend the term "government schools" to be a derogatory term. If you just haven't realized that, that's ok. But that doesn't make it not-exist.

[Word Nerd]

 

 

And your point is? That I was correct when I said that it could be used as a political or biased statement? Thank you for noticing! Or is your point that your one example proves that it is always used that way? Hmmm. Doesn't seem very logical. . .

 

Yes to the first and absolutely not to the second. My point is that it's often pretty clear how the speaker is using the term. One doesn't have to wonder when the term is used as an expletive. No need to be snarky.

[m0mmaBuck]

I hear PS bashed among homeschoolers, and HS'ing bashed among PS'ers. I've also heard both bashed by private schoolers and vice versa. Some people feel the need to lift themselves up by bringing others down.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It just seems strange to me to have a thread on "demonizing" and "bashing" - which just means making unsubstantiated and over-the-top negative generalizations - and to have people make unsubstantiated negative generalizations about how often people do this sort of thing.

 

I homeschool in a region where most people I know do not homeschool for religious reasons and those who do, usually have lots of other reasons mixed in with it. That may have a lot to do with my personal experience with this sort of thing in real life. But I don't really know.

[DawnM]

Oh, I can bash anyone......just give me a minute......

 

 

So long as we are at it, why aren't we bashing private schools, individual tutoring, and self-education also? :rolleyes:

 

[SarahW]

Um yeah well blow me over. The lead star of that video is John Taylor Gatto. He was named NYC teacher of the year three years in a row. He was a public school teacher!

 

 

He's the lead star? really? Where do you see that?

 

In the promo he's one of many talking heads and his soundbyte is something about the scariness of "turning children over to perfect strangers."

 

I don't know Gatto well, but I'm pretty sure that's not one of the major points on his anti-school platform.

 

I daresay he's been used.

[DawnM]

I think it is important to name things appropriately in a thread like this so that everyone can know what we are talking about. This documentary is an example of thing blown way out of proportion.

 

 

 

I was trying not to name names, but YES!

 

Do these people even realize how many moms they make cry on the first day of school every year? Homeschooling moms too, just think about all those poor children being bused away from their mommies to be indoctrinated!

 

grrrrr...........

 

 

So clever though, the capital "N" in the title. It's not just any indoctrination, oh no. It may just be a conspiracy.

 

[SarahW]

I think it is important to name things appropriately in a thread like this so that everyone can know what we are talking about. This documentary is an example of thing blown way out of proportion.

 

 

Yes, as I was scrolling down the page of interview highlights I was going "yes him, and him, and him, and most definitely him." But though many of those people haven't gotten much love on this forum in the past, it's still potentially explosive, and I didn't want to derail the thread by speaking of specific people.

 

Though I do think many of them should be called out. If they go much further with this it will quickly rise to the level of hate-speech. I mean, ten seconds into the promo and I felt kinda sorry for Ted Haggard, and that's really saying something.

[Anne in CA]

Speaking of Ted Haggard, I read his wife's book and it really broke my heart, in a good way.

[Orthodox6]

Asking out of interest, as I already have posted that I never have heard of either the film or its website supporters. . . Who watches this kind of movie? Is it shown at homeschool support groups? Is it one of those "preaching to the choir" products that, as such, has scant impact on anybody other than people who believe its claims in the first place? Do Protestant church groups show it? (It does not sound like something Catholic or Orthodox parishes would pay attention to.)

 

T.I.A.

 

 

 

Yes, as I was scrolling down the page of interview highlights I was going "yes him, and him, and him, and most definitely him." But though many of those people haven't gotten much love on this forum in the past, it's still potentially explosive, and I didn't want to derail the thread by speaking of specific people.

 

Though I do think many of them should be called out. If they go much further with this it will quickly rise to the level of hate-speech. I mean, ten seconds into the promo and I felt kinda sorry for Ted Haggard, and that's really saying something.

 

[Crimson Wife]

I follow what you are saying. My spin, though, would be that if a parent and a child are not getting along well with each other, a harrassed, burdened teacher in an outside school is not going to be able or involved enough to ameliorate the existing situation.

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

If the parent and child are butting heads over getting schoolwork done in a HS situation, they're going to butt heads over getting homework assigned by a classroom-based school done. Quite possibly even more so because in a HS situation, we as teachers have the power to tweak an assignment to make it less "busywork". If an outside teacher makes the assignment, then I wouldn't have the authority to change it.

[poppy]

I think this thread pretty definitely answers the question of whether some HSers enjoy bashing public schools.

[Crimson Wife]

I think this thread pretty definitely answers the question of whether some HSers enjoy bashing public schools.

 

I don't know if you're referring to me, but I actually have a child in public school. She is getting services there that I would be unable to provide her at home, and the 1:2 teacher:student ratio plus all the students being roughly at the same functioning level is better than what she'd get in our HS.

 

I just object to the widespread belief that a classroom-based school would magically solve all a HS child's issues. Except in unusual circumstances, the issues are with the child rather than HSing. Now if "homeschooling" is being used as a cover for educational neglect, then yes, obviously a classroom-based school is likely to fix the problem. But that's a fairly rare situation (of course, it is a tragedy when it does occur, but there are a far greater number of children experiencing poor education in public schools).

[SarahW]

Asking out of interest, as I already have posted that I never have heard of either the film or its website supporters. . . Who watches this kind of movie? Is it shown at homeschool support groups? Is it one of those "preaching to the choir" products that, as such, has scant impact on anybody other than people who believe its claims in the first place? Do Protestant church groups show it? (It does not sound like something Catholic or Orthodox parishes would pay attention to.)

 

T.I.A.

 

The sponsors are just financial backers. Not social non-profits. I think a few of the sponsors are just some guys who set up an endowment fund. They don't really care to be famous, they just want recognition for underwriting the production costs.

 

Did you watch the promo? There are some pretty common Big Names there.

 

As for who watches it - yes, I think it gets preached to the choir, and serves to make the choir more shrill, if you catch my drift. But the people making it are desperately hoping it goes viral, and gets picked up by one of the three major networks as an evening special, and so on.

[Danestress]

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

If the parent and child are butting heads over getting schoolwork done in a HS situation, they're going to butt heads over getting homework assigned by a classroom-based school done.

 

That has not been my experience or the experience of my friends, though I know it is conventional wisdom.

 

I loved homeschooling and fully support it at all grade levels. But the level of conflict I feel with my sons has been reduced to a small fraction of what it was when we homeschooled. Maybe I am just better in my current role than my teacher role. I know my experience is not universal. But I did want to say that for myself and a number of my friends, sending our kids to school has reduced conflict and made the overall relationship friendlier.

 

[jennynd]

I work full time and I' don't know anyone IRL homeschooled in NY. Once one of my coworker was chatting and mentioned a guys said " his wife is homeschooled, they are weird". My immediate response was " what's wrong with that, I will if I can". So, I think in general, the feeling toward each other is almost mutual. Homeschooler probably has lots negs to say about PS kids, and PS parent has a lot negs to say about homeschool too. Kinda like two political parties. Just different opinion. I won't let it bother me.

[DarlaS]

She also believes that her soon to be teenaged daughter will never, ever disagree with her- because she isn't in public school.

 

Did she actually say that in those exact words?? :lol:

[SarahW]

 

I've never seen the video. When I looked it up, he was the first person listed as being in the video.

 

I'm confused by the last two things you said about "not one of the major points of his anti-school platform" and "he's been used". I only know that he is very anti traditional school. He would be just the person to be willing to make or speak in a video like that.

 

My only point was if you look at the very outward bashing of schools it isn't really homeschoolers doing it. Or at least they didn't start out as homeschoolers. Many of them were teachers in public schools.

 

I don't think Gatto's beef with public schools is because he thinks they are "bastions of paganism" trying to overthrow Christianity.

 

If anything, I think he would be equally horrified by the thrust of the video - that kids should be kept home just so they can be a taught a different worldview.

 

That's why I think he got used.

[Orthodox6]

(found it )

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've never watched the "IndoctriNation movie".

 

Help me out - I'm having a major senior moment - but wasn't there another movie put out - not pro-homeschooling but pointing out the problems in the public schools? I haven't watched that one either but the point I was trying to make before my breain fritzed out on me was that there are many people who point out problems in the public schools. Pointing out the problems doesn't necessarily mean bashing. There are many different responses to acknowledging that there are problems - some people make it their mission to support the schools and certain programs with money (The Bill Gates foundation comes to mind), some make it their mission to help out at their local schools as much as possible, some decide to put their kids in private schools and some homeschool. Part of the reason I homeschool is because I was a teacher in the public schools for many many years. I don't have a problem with other people enrolling their kids but my private opinion is that I don't want to deal with it. But that's only part of the reason. I primarily homeschool for more positive reasons - for what I think that homeschooling can bring to the table academically, socially and emotionally for my kids.

[Lilaclady]

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

If the parent and child are butting heads over getting schoolwork done in a HS situation, they're going to butt heads over getting homework assigned by a classroom-based school done. Quite possibly even more so because in a HS situation, we as teachers have the power to tweak an assignment to make it less "busywork". If an outside teacher makes the assignment, then I wouldn't have the authority to change it.

 

 

I think sometimes, some kids just need some one else to be the ones teaching them. If the relationship between me and any of my kids ever get t the point where I feel it is better to have someone else teach them, you bet I will have them in school so fast their head will spin. The relationship is more important than any academics. They will always be my kids but I will not always be their teacher.

[SLT]

Did she actually say that in those exact words?? :lol:

 

 

Actually, yes! She has on multiple occasions. I find it humorous, and have told her that will likely not be the case... but she begs to differ. :glare:

[SarahW]

Jean, a critique is one thing. That's fine with me. I have plenty of my own critiques of the classroom my kid was in last year, and I really liked the school and the teacher. I'm also sure if that if I was to document how exactly I'm teaching my kid right now people would find ways to critique it. *shrug*

 

The problem I have is with the SCARE tactics that put people in absolute fear of public schools. The "did you know the are handing out condoms to kindergartners???" fear that I personally heard one month ago. (I looked that up, btw, an elementary school in a very liberal part of Mass. was going to stock free condoms in the nurse's office, back in 2010, and they scrapped the plan). The "A mass exodus from government schools is the only way to preserve the souls and minds of our children" talk that puts parents in the hot-seat for the precious little souls. It does nothing useful, it just generates fear and hate.

[kwg]

I've never watched the "IndoctriNation movie".

 

Help me out - I'm having a major senior moment - but wasn't there another movie put out - not pro-homeschooling but pointing out the problems in the public schools? I haven't watched that one either but the point I was trying to make before my breain fritzed out on me was that there are many people who point out problems in the public schools. Pointing out the problems doesn't necessarily mean bashing. There are many different responses to acknowledging that there are problems - some people make it their mission to support the schools and certain programs with money (The Bill Gates foundation comes to mind), some make it their mission to help out at their local schools as much as possible, some decide to put their kids in private schools and some homeschool. Part of the reason I homeschool is because I was a teacher in the public schools for many many years. I don't have a problem with other people enrolling their kids but my private opinion is that I don't want to deal with it. But that's only part of the reason. I primarily homeschool for more positive reasons - for what I think that homeschooling can bring to the table academically, socially and emotionally for my kids.

 

 

Waiting For Superman

[Jean in Newcastle]

Thanks, Kwg. I don't know why I just could not think of the title!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jean, a critique is one thing. That's fine with me. I have plenty of my own critiques of the classroom my kid was in last year, and I really liked the school and the teacher. I'm also sure if that if I was to document how exactly I'm teaching my kid right now people would find ways to critique it. *shrug*

 

The problem I have is with the SCARE tactics that put people in absolute fear of public schools. The "did you know the are handing out condoms to kindergartners???" fear that I personally heard one month ago. (I looked that up, btw, an elementary school in a very liberal part of Mass. was going to stock free condoms in the nurse's office, back in 2010, and they scrapped the plan). The "A mass exodus from government schools is the only way to preserve the souls and minds of our children" talk that puts parents in the hot-seat for the precious little souls. It does nothing useful, it just generates fear and hate.

 

I agree with you about scare tactics. I don't like them either. But the only place I've run into that sort of thing has been in blogs that are posted on this board and then shot down. ;) But I don't like people who use those kinds of tactics to bolster their argument for anything and tend to stay far, far away from them.

[TheApprentice]

I don't bash the public schools, but I have experienced the negatives (my oldest was in ps through 5th grade, middle son through 2nd grade). It does no good to not be open to the fact that there are negative aspects to the public school system, without it being considered "bashing".

 

On the flip side, there are also negative aspects about home schooling. One really needs to be very objective. And be very satisfied with the choices one makes, without having to bash the alternative.

 

I've actually stopped listening to friends/family's views, even when they agree with me, because they're not living it.

[DarlaS]

Actually, yes! She has on multiple occasions. I find it humorous, and have told her that will likely not be the case... but she begs to differ. :glare:

 

 

That's hysterical. There is no such thing as two human beings who will never disagree.

[Mom0012]

I'm honestly surprised that people are irritated by this discussion. I never said that ALL homeschoolers criticized public school. I was homeschooled, my husband was homeschooled, our children will be homeschooled. I was making an observation that I see often- homeschoolers demonizing public school in many forms. If you haven't seen that in your circle or haven't participated yourself, then that's that. And nobody ever asked you to justify your homeschooling here, on this board and certainly not in this thread.

 

Coming in late here, but maybe it's the word demonizing that is irritating some. I have definitely seen homeschoolers criticize the public schools on these boards many times. Many have had direct experience with the schools and pulled their kids out because of those experiences. Others have had less direct experiences, but still have seen negatives. Many are homeschooling because they are dissatisfied with the public schools. Let's face it. If we all thought public school was so great, many of our kids would be there. So, I think criticizing public schools on a homeschool board is okay. I don't equate it with demonizing, or instilling fear in children about the public school system.

[SarahW]

I agree with you about scare tactics. I don't like them either. But the only place I've run into that sort of thing has been in blogs that are posted on this board and then shot down. ;) But I don't like people who use those kinds of tactics to bolster their argument for anything and tend to stay far, far away from them.

 

 

 

FTR, I heard the condoms and kindergarten talk at a Classical Conversations meeting. If you haven't run into it that much, that's fine, but in my own experience it is extraordinarily prevalent in even the unexpected places. I don't think it hurts any of us to be aware of it.

 

ETA: At the same CC meeting the speakers themselves engaged in a lot of "Common Core is eeeevilllll, stay far, far, far away from it!" talk. Since Common Core is a public school thing, ergo....

[pdalley]

The only public schools I 'demonize' are the ones I've had direct experience with. Even still it was the administrators that were the issue more so than the schools themselves. Only one bad teacher which on the balance wasn't too bad. But when you've gone through what we went through with them you tend not to be charitable. I always try to qualify that with the fact I can only speak to the local schools that we dealt with. If someone considers that 'demonizing' then that is not my problem. They didn't walk in our shoes.

 

No, I do not like the 'one size must fit all' public schools have come by necessity. I do not like the en masse bullying that can go on in such places. But every parent needs to choose the best option for their family. So I believe there should be public, private, charter and homeschool and educational freedom so people can choose.

[KungFuPanda]

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

If the parent and child are butting heads over getting schoolwork done in a HS situation, they're going to butt heads over getting homework assigned by a classroom-based school done. Quite possibly even more so because in a HS situation, we as teachers have the power to tweak an assignment to make it less "busywork". If an outside teacher makes the assignment, then I wouldn't have the authority to change it.

 

 

This isn't necessarily true. Teens can be odd creatures at times. My own teen wasn't thrilled with the work I gave her as a new 9th Grader. She successfully campaigned to go to public high school second semester. I actually believed your statement until I put a kid in school. She is doing even more written work than I ever assigned her and she's handling it on her own. She has come to her father and me for occasional help, but we certainly don't fight or have to make her do her work. She WANTS to do good work. She likes her teachers and responds well to them. She enjoys having a variety of instructors, and even though she'll be a junior next year, there is still a newness to school because she was homeschooled her whole life. Now, there was never that much tension over assignments at home because she's a relatively easy student, but I have seen first hand that a teen can respond very differently to something coming from a teacher rather than their own mother.

 

As far as my inability to tweak assignments, I won't be able to do that for her in college so she might as well learn the material the way her teacher chooses to present it. Of COURSE it's not the exact way I'd do it because it's not me teaching the class. My daughter doesn't really have any learning issues that make the tweaking necessary and she's actually had very very little of what I'd call 'busy work." Having been conditioned by homeschoolers, I really expected a LOT of it and it hasn't happened in 9th or 10th.

[SLT]

Coming in late here, but maybe it's the word demonizing that is irritating some. I have definitely seen homeschoolers criticize the public schools on these boards many times. Many have had direct experience with the schools and pulled their kids out because of those experiences. Others have had less direct experiences, but still have seen negatives. Many are homeschooling because they are dissatisfied with the public schools. Let's face it. If we all thought public school was so great, many of our kids would be there. So, I think criticizing public schools on a homeschool board is okay. I don't equate it with demonizing, or instilling fear in children about the public school system.

 

 

I think maybe those who are irritated by the word demonizing haven't experienced what some of us have. It's absolutely fine to criticize something, but completely different to actually demonize, and that is what I have heard a lot of here.

 

In response to another previous poster, I guess my use of "we" was more of a generality (because, as a homeschooler, I certainly don't participate in this, and still used the word we- so obviously, I wasn't trying to classify each and every homeschooler guilty of demonization of public school).

 

I guess the bottom line is, different things work for different people. Some public schools don't educate well. Some homeschool parents don't educate well. Some private schools don't educate well. People do what works for them.

[SLT]

The only public schools I 'demonize' are the ones I've had direct experience with. Even still it was the administrators that were the issue more so than the schools themselves. Only one bad teacher which on the balance wasn't too bad. But when you've gone through what we went through with them you tend not to be charitable. I always try to qualify that with the fact I can only speak to the local schools that we dealt with. If someone considers that 'demonizing' then that is not my problem. They didn't walk in our shoes.

 

No, I do not like the 'one size must fit all' public schools have come by necessity. I do not like the en masse bullying that can go on in such places. But every parent needs to choose the best option for their family. So I believe there should be public, private, charter and homeschool and educational freedom so people can choose.

 

 

I totally get this, and I wouldn't call it demonizing at that point. You are relaying your direct experience with a specific school (or schools). There is nothing wrong with this, at all. I was taking issue with the fact that many think that ALL public schools are terrible, bad places that produce nothing but criminals (being ridiculously dramatic here, but you get the idea).

 

Everyone has a right to criticize things that they've had experience with specifically.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Probably this discussion has hit a nerve here. ;)

 

 

Some of the over generalizations have hit a nerve for me. I don't like being lumped in a category that is basically characterized as being nonobjective and conspiracy-theory oriented. My opinions might not always be totally correct but I do try to look at things as objectively as I can to make the best decisions I can for my children. In order to do that I do have to look at both the pros and cons of all the educational choices available to me. This involves listing the cons of public schools along with the pros. There are both. I do, however, think that in my case there are more cons than pros. If I didn't think that, then I would not be busting my butt to provide an education at home for my kids. This does not mean that I bash the public schools to all the neighbors who use them. We have a good relationship and chat about how their kids are doing in school. This does not mean that I bash the public schools to all my friends (some who do not live in my neighborhood) who send their kids to public school. We have a good relationship and chat about how their kids are doing in school too. The only time I ever broke my rule to not proselytize for homeschooling is when a friend told me that her child was throwing up every single day in anxiety over going to school. I then shut up and let her do her own objective thinking through her options. (She homeschooled for a couple of years and then put her kids in another school that was a better fit.) I do not get together with other homeschoolers to bash public school. I actually used to lead a support group for homeschoolers in the area and neither I nor the leaders before me ever felt the need. We were more busy actually supporting each other.

 

I don't really like being told that when I say that this hasn't been a problem where I live, that I must not get out enough because it is a problem where someone else lives. Um? We live in different areas and hang out with a different crowd! And maybe those posters need to mix with different people. If the thread was asking for advice on how to handle situations where family members bash public schools then I'm sure people would elaborate on the bean dip advice that was given.

[KungFuPanda]

Weirdly, I wasn't allowed to edit . . .

 

Anyway, the point I failed to make for the OP is that not all homeschoolers demonize public school. I think most of us just see it as a different path. There are some homeschoolers who are very vocal about their disdain for schools, but I think that they go off so often that they seem like more than one voice. Some have had negative experiences as students or parents. Some have no negative experiences and theirs is a theoretical argument. They have a right to their opinion.

 

I have met a few who put don public schools a lot and it seems like a defense mechanism. I know a couple families (a tiny percentage of the homeschoolers I know) who have painted themselves into a corner with homeschooling. They have undereducated their children and the years have crept up on them. They now have teens with abysmal writing and math skills so it's easier to put down schools and preach how you'd never put your kid in one than it is to admit that, in a one-to-one tutoring situation, YOU have failed to maintain minimal standards. I know one family that spends half their life driving their teen boys to a homeschooled football league. Their boys are gifted athletes. They 'could' walk to the local high school and do well on that team, but they'd never be able to get the grades! The local high school doesn't even have a math class below Algebra I.

 

That's not the only family I know whose kids would get a lot more education at home than at school, but returning to school woefully behind is just too embarrassing. I LISTENED to these people's assessment of our local high school and was ready for a real battle when I enrolled my daughter. It never happened. It was a love-Fest! NICE administrators. CAPABLE teachers. (Yes, there was that one exception, but one dud out of 14 teachers isn't bad.) GOOD curriculum. Granted, I'm conflicted. Part of me hoped Dd would change her mind and want to return to homeschooling, but I never wished a bad experience on her and my life is A LOT easier now that I'm not responsible for teaching high school. (The reprieve is temporary. I'll have an eight grader next year and he shows no interest in public school.)

 

MOST of the homeschoolers that I know are very academically minded and work hard to educate their kids. Oddly, I hear more public school criticism from the more academically relaxed set. I just don't seem to know many homeschoolers IRL who have a chip on their shoulder about 'government schools.' I certainly don't and have been fortunate enough to only have good school experiences.

[WishboneDawn]

 

Coming in late here, but maybe it's the word demonizing that is irritating some. I have definitely seen homeschoolers criticize the public schools on these boards many times. Many have had direct experience with the schools and pulled their kids out because of those experiences. Others have had less direct experiences, but still have seen negatives. Many are homeschooling because they are dissatisfied with the public schools. Let's face it. If we all thought public school was so great, many of our kids would be there. So, I think criticizing public schools on a homeschool board is okay. I don't equate it with demonizing, or instilling fear in children about the public school system.

 

I've been on other boards where demonize is an appropriate term. I stay away from a lot of blogs where public schools are demonized. I have been the homeschooler doing the demonizing. It's less of an issue then here but in the wider homeschooling world I don't think it's that uncommon.