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Math Mammoth. Pros/Cons? Which areas are weak in this curriculum? Word problem development?


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Our ds is currently enjoying & learning from a few topics from the Blue Series. I don't think we are candidates for the yearly curriculum since ds is so far, a below to average math student, and I am not strong in math. >cringe<

 

But I must admit, I do enjoy learning alongside my ds and a good deal of MM's approach does click with both of us!

 

OTOH, we are both stumped when it comes to MM's word problems! IMHO, they are tough! >blush<

 

We both need step-by-step instructions for those pesky word problems, which I cannot find in MM. Is there anything else missing from MM, in your opinion?

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I think the word problems in MM always look like a piece of cake compared to the CWP. We're doing MM 4a right now and I've noticed that there are more bar diagram instructions than before though.

 

On the whole, I don't feel like anything is really missing from MM. It's so thorough. I think maybe the thing it's missing is something intangible, like fun or joy or something. I hope that doesn't sound harsh... I have twins - one who does MM and one who does other stuff. My MM boy likes the straightforwardness of MM and I really appreciate how thorough it is, I just see that it's not as playful as many other curricula and there's not as much excitement there.

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Write to the author, Maria Miller. Those problems *were* developed somewhere, and you just missed it (perhaps in an earlier level?). Maria is awesome and she will certainly help.

 

I'm not sure why you think you can't do the yearly curriculum? Do you mean that you are just playing catch-up in a few areas to get up to where you think he ought to be first? Because the light blue series has excellent incremental, step-by-step handholding instruction each step of the way!

 

 

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The light blue series is very, very incremental, explaining everything step by step. Maybe some of that is not in the dark blue series? I don't know, I haven't used those.

 

I don't think anything is missing, but I don't like the way MM covers Geometry. It's way too wordy, or something, hard to put my finger on but it's the one part that really hasn't stuck/clicked with us.

 

And yeah, I get what Farrar is saying, MM is an excellent, serviceable, complete program, but it's not much . . . fun? I'm hoping dd7 will like BA for third grade, for my own sake as well as her own . . .

 

I feel bad even saying that, MM was such a gift to us when dd10 came home from ps in 4th grade, and she has learned so much from it, but I definitely feel the need to supplement for fun and interest, and to present problems from different angles . . . not because I think MM isn't complete.

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Our ds is currently enjoying & learning from a few topics from the Blue Series. I don't think we are candidates for the yearly curriculum since ds is so far, a below to average math student, and I am not strong in math. >cringe<

 

No, no don't think like that. MM is written for everyone, the strong and not so strong. A below to average math student should do well with the Light BLue Series. Don't rule out using it as your yearly curriculum.

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Write to the author, Maria Miller. Those problems *were* developed somewhere, and you just missed it (perhaps in an earlier level?). Maria is awesome and she will certainly help.

 

I'm not sure why you think you can't do the yearly curriculum? Do you mean that you are just playing catch-up in a few areas to get up to where you think he ought to be first? Because the light blue series has excellent incremental, step-by-step handholding instruction each step of the way!

 

My ds is more than a year behind his upcoming grade level, so we're trying MM to see how much he can catch up this summer. In Cathy Duffy's review, she refers to MM as appropriate for strong math students and mentioned there wasn't a lot of help for parents (like me) who aren't strong in math, trying to help their dc. (Fyi-paraphrasing, here!) :)

 

The light blue series is very, very incremental, explaining everything step by step. Maybe some of that is not in the dark blue series? I don't know, I haven't used those.

 

I don't think anything is missing, but I don't like the way MM covers Geometry. It's way too wordy, or something, hard to put my finger on but it's the one part that really hasn't stuck/clicked with us.

 

And yeah, I get what Farrar is saying, MM is an excellent, serviceable, complete program, but it's not much . . . fun? I'm hoping dd7 will like BA for third grade, for my own sake as well as her own . . .

 

I feel bad even saying that, MM was such a gift to us when dd10 came home from ps in 4th grade, and she has learned so much from it, but I definitely feel the need to supplement for fun and interest, and to present problems from different angles . . . not because I think MM isn't complete.

 

Hmm, this could be! I think I'll take a look at more samples.

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No, no don't think like that. MM is written for everyone, the strong and not so strong. A below to average math student should do well with the Light BLue Series. Don't rule out using it as your yearly curriculum.

 

 

Well I certainly don't want to short change my ds at all. Maybe he could do it, but I am quite leery in trying anything right now since I feel responsible for my oldest dc's failures in higher maths. >cringe< However, I personally think maturity has played an enormous role in his math-abilities, so who knows?! :rolleyes:

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I can't really think of anything truly missing from MM (we use the light blue series). Perhaps the only thing I can think of is the addition of more review problems. We've spent the year bouncing back and forth between MM and MUS, and the one thing I did appreciate from MUS this year is the inclusion of review problems each week from previously taught concepts. My kids have a tendency to "forget" certain math concepts unless they are brought up occasionally. I wish MM offered cumulative reviews more often through the program. I noticed that Maria now offers review worksheets for each grade on her web site. My plan is to switch completely back to MM for next year and perhaps work in the review worksheets periodically through the year so we do not forget those previously learned concepts.

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Well I certainly don't want to short change my ds at all. Maybe he could do it, but I am quite leery in trying anything right now since I feel responsible for my oldest dc's failures in higher maths. >cringe< However, I personally think maturity has played an enormous role in his math-abilities, so who knows?! :rolleyes:

 

 

Yes maturity plays a role, along with so many other things. Don't beat yourself up about the past, you can do better from here on in. When I took my oldest home from PS in 4th grade, we started in MM3 as review. Don't be afraid to start below grade level. MM is written directly to the student, with step by step instruction. As a parent you do not need to be good at math to use it. You could also look at Khan Academy for supplementation.

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Math Mammoth is my favorite math program/curriculum of the few we've tried over the years (Horizons, Singapore, CLE). I am tad perplexed by Cathy Duffy's review because I am not strong in math and neither are my kids. In my tiny, humble opinion Math Mammoth is a ticket to help a "not strong" math parent become more adept at understanding math alongside the kids. I also think it's helping my children along in becoming better math students. For our family, we need more "drill" than MM schedules. All of that is recommended within chapter introductions but in the early years I wasn't consistent or systematic with drill and review. I have learned the hard way (by failing my oldest and now we're working extra hard to remediate to automaticity in multiplication) and will do more systematic review and drill with all of the kids from here on out.

 

Another thing that will help you (and that I am beginning soon) is to keep your own math journal or binder of sorts. This way you can write down key terms, concepts, etc. as you come across them in the lessons. Often I want to refer back to something because stuff just seems to fall out of my aging brain! If I take the time to "notebook" what I'm learning as I teach I think it will help my retention (and give me a handy reference if it is needed).

 

My goal is to have all of my kids using Math Mammoth although I *will* use CLE (or Rod&Staff) if my kiddos wilt. My middlers have been using CLE for various reasons but I have been transitioning my now 9yo to MM over the past few months. He is a "slower to bloom" math guy and I want him to study with Math Mammoth as I hope the incremental, mastery approach will lead to depth of understanding for him. With CLE he flies through the lessons but I don't know that he's REALLY learning .... it's hard to gauge with the spiral format and sometimes he forgets that he's learned something. He seems to fare better with a more traditional, drill oriented approach like Rod & Staff. I mention Rod & Staff (your curriculum) because I think it is more mastery based than CLE while still being "traditional". I'd combine R&S with some MM Blue books in that case .... hoping to sneak in some MM conceptual teaching along the way. My 9yo was held back a year in school (by us) because he was slow to warm to math and it's best if we just keep working at his pace and trying to keep math doable for him! Funny thing is he LOVES Math Mammoth even though it makes him cry and we routinely hit walls with it and then hop over to CLE for awhile (and to give Mom a break from the melt downs).

 

I am not mathy enough to spot any weaknesses in Math Mammoth. I vote that it is a strong, thorough curriculum with phenomenal customer support. The word problems are fantastic and there have been plenty of them each year (we are through 4th grade with MM).

 

If you want MM then you should just go for it! Don't let Cathy's review deter you. :coolgleamA:

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I will second what may posters who have followed up to my prior post have said: Math Mammoth is a great program for parents who do not feel confident in their abilities to teach math, and it is NOT just a program for strong math students.

 

In fact, I only hesitated to recommend Singapore to you because of your reticence about your mathematical abilities. I believe you could do it, but it won't do any good unless YOU fully bought into the idea ;D. For the parent who needs more hand-holding, I would definitely go with Math Mammoth, and and you could feel reassured that your child will end up very well prepared.

 

One thing about review: Math Mammoth provides way more problems than you'll ever need (and links to many drill websites on top of that, including worksheet generators for math facts, too!). If your child needs review periodically, then simply skip a certain amount of problems, but don't discard the worksheets-- keep them in a file folder by test section or in a binder, or whatever works for you, and the following week or two weeks later or whatever schedule works best for your child (I don't recommend waiting too long to get a review session to help memories form longer term) schedule one math day per week or a math time later in the day separate from your main lesson, to pull those old worksheets and work on the problems you previously left blank.

 

Be smart about which problems you leave blank; don't just do the first 2/3 and leave the last 1/3 empty, unless this is a deliberate strategy on your part. Many math programs design their exercises to start with easy problems and build to more difficult problems as the exercise progresses. If you do this, you will be saving the most difficult problems for review-- or if you don't review, to never even be attempted! Try doing all the odd-numbered problems, or skipping every third problem, or some such scheme.

 

Built in review :)

 

For more "fun," try math games-- break out the manipulatives (see the "Math by the Seat of your Pants" entry on my blog); try Life of Fred as a supplement; try Penrose the Mathematical Cat or the Number Devil; Try Sir Cumference; try the numerical mind benders from the Critical Thinking Company (I forget what they are called just now); watch Vi Hart's videos on YouTube; read the Murderous Maths books (buy used paperbacks from Amazon). Sometimes, straightforward, clear, and to the point, are just what Mom and kiddo need, in the main program, and Math Mammoth will give you that.

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I use MM with kids who struggle in math and kids who excel in math. I am very happy with it for all of them. It doesn't have fun, but I don't mind because it gets done quickly so we can have other fun.

 

I think it could use some more explicit suggestions for manipulative use. I use cuisenaire rods, base 10 blocks, and an abacus with my struggling kids with MM and there were times when we couldn't have gotten through it without them. MM uses pictures instead of hands on manipulatives and there's no or very little mention of other manipulatives. It took me a while to have a lightbulb moment and realize that just because MM doesn't mention it doesn't mean we can't pull out the toys and sit on the floor and do it all orally and hands on for a while.

 

I am good in math, and so I hate to presume, but I think that with the instruction in the light blue series, that most average adults who have learned basic elementary math in the past could pick it up and figure out how to teach it and do the word problems if they were studying along with their children. It is very incremental and it only goes up to 6th grade. For my children who are good in math it is sometimes tediously incremental. The answer key in the light blue series usually explains how to do the more involved word problems and doesn't just give the answer.

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I've used both the light blue and the dark blue. It's the exact same stuff. The benefits of the dark blue are the arrangement of the topics and for some kids who are behind on specific skills or need a curriculum that doesn't say it's two grades below their grade or something, then it's the ticket. But I agree with others that MM isn't as advanced as all that. And that the one benefit to the light blue is that the material is developed in a clearer way so things like word problems and some other cross topic problem solving things are a bit clearer maybe.

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I only recently found the cumulative reviews that she includes in the supportive materials folder. Are you already using those? I had no idea they were even there until I went looking for the 6th grade tests (which we don't usually use) for my 7th grader to do as a review before her year end testing, and I found all the cumulative reviews in there as well.

 

Unbelievable! I've owned this curriculum for two years, and I had NO idea that those worksheets were there! :blushing: I would just print the student pages and the answer key without bothering to look at what was lurking in those other folders. Thank you so much for steering me in the right direction! :hurray:

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She has also just put out review workbooks.

 

I was interested in these since we use MM Light Blue as supplemental to our dds main CLE math program. In looking them over it appears they have the same content. So one could create their own by pulling form the same source.

 

"The CONTENT for these workbooks is taken from the corresponding level of the Light Blue series (the mixed reviews, reviews, tests, and cumulative reviews). Therefore, these workbooks are redundant if you own the complete Light BLue Series." -- http://www.mathmammoth.com/review_workbooks/

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We have used the dark blue books a couple of times. The pages are so cluttered and busy, it kind of drives me nuts. I wish the font was bigger and it was spread out over more pages. This is honestly the only thing that keeps us from just jumping in. Has anyone had success in changing this font from the CD or downloads? We've only gotten the printed book.

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We have used the dark blue books a couple of times. The pages are so cluttered and busy, it kind of drives me nuts. I wish the font was bigger and it was spread out over more pages. This is honestly the only thing that keeps us from just jumping in. Has anyone had success in changing this font from the CD or downloads? We've only gotten the printed book.

 

*Years* ago, when MM first hit the boards, I remember a WTMer adjusting the font, so it must be doable!

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We have used the dark blue books a couple of times. The pages are so cluttered and busy, it kind of drives me nuts. I wish the font was bigger and it was spread out over more pages. This is honestly the only thing that keeps us from just jumping in. Has anyone had success in changing this font from the CD or downloads? We've only gotten the printed book.

 

Hm, I have the light blue series and find just the opposite to be true with them. There is very little clutter, plenty of white space for writing, reading, etc... The font is standard Times New Roman 12 with adequate new lines between paragraphs. I haven't looked at the dark blue series to compare, but can't imagine them being that much different?

 

I'm not sure if your talking about how they look once printed or if you are reading them on a device? But the files are all in pdf format. So if on a computer, tablet, etc... all you have to do is zoom in for apparent larger fonts. The font looks Huge when I zoom the pdf file to 150% if you prefer them larger like this.

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I'm talking about the the printed and bound books from Kagi. I haven't invested in the CDs yet because of my reservations. I suppose I could just try one download and play around with it. Just wondering if someone has tried this and successfully printed the changed/enlarged pages.

 

There is no need to invest in the CDs. The pdf downloads are less expensive (especially when on sale!) and print out very nicely in terms of fonts, layout, spacing, etc... I suggest you get the free samples and try them out for yourself - http://www.mathmammo...sheets/free.php

 

Apparently the new pdf files can even be written on directly from the computer if one prefers this approach. However we find that the printed pages from pdf work out fine for us with no need to enlarge the print at all.

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Pros -- very thorough, easy to mold to student's needs: accelerate to accomodate leaps in child's understanding, backtrack for more practice, rearrange topics across the whole elementary math curriculum to follow child's interests. Strong focus on mental math and common sense before mindless application of standard algorithms. Word problems often involve practical, real-life scenarios.

 

Cons -- not particularly strong in the creative problem-solving area. We use Zaccaro's books as supplements that are both challenging and fun.

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I have absolutely loved Math Mammoth, and don't feel anything is missing. I would say the solving of word problems occurred in the 2nd grade Light Blue level. I am not strong in math, and have had no problem teaching it. I would say I have even learned some things already! We are working a level "behind," but I know that dd has more depth in her understanding of math than the typical child. And Maria has always been available and quick to answer any questions : )

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I was interested in these since we use MM Light Blue as supplemental to our dds main CLE math program. In looking them over it appears they have the same content. So one could create their own by pulling form the same source.

 

"The CONTENT for these workbooks is taken from the corresponding level of the Light Blue series (the mixed reviews, reviews, tests, and cumulative reviews). Therefore, these workbooks are redundant if you own the complete Light BLue Series." -- http://www.mathmammoth.com/review_workbooks/

 

 

I don't think they are the exact same problems as in the same numbers, but they are the same type. You certainly could pull your own and make your own review, but it was well worth the $5 for me to have all that mixed review already done for me. I just printed it out and dd is using it as her summer math. The mix and review is perfect.

 

We love MM, but I will be honest, I looked at the print verson last week at a convention and I don't think I could do that. The color from the download makes a huge difference and the color makes printing it yourself well worth it. I was shocked at what a difference visually the color made.

 

I am amazed at the math foundation my daughter has from MM. My ds is naturally very mathy, and MM works just as well for him as my dd who needs a little more handholding. I love that it works for both types of learners.

 

I echo those who have said MM explains things so well it has made me better at math. It really teaches the concepts so well, if you didn't know the struggles my daughter had before with another curriculum, you would think she was "mathy". Already by the third grade books the foundation MM has laid is evident.

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Wow! I did not know this. Thanks!

 

 

Here is a quote from Maria regarding this:

 

"The PDF files in the download or CD are enabled for annotating. This means that the student can actually complete the PDF file on the computer, using the typewriter and drawing tools available in Acrobat Reader version 9 or higher, or on a tablet device such as an iPad, using a PDF app that has annotating tools." -- http://www.mathmammo...-curriculum.php

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We love MM, but I will be honest, I looked at the print verson last week at a convention and I don't think I could do that. The color from the download makes a huge difference and the color makes printing it yourself well worth it. I was shocked at what a difference visually the color made.

 

We've only used the print version and it was.... blah. I *wish* that the color version was available for purchase pre-printed! (Especially for those with less-than-ideal printer situations!) I'd pay a few extra $$ for the convenience of it!

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We've only used the print version and it was.... blah. I *wish* that the color version was available for purchase pre-printed! (Especially for those with less-than-ideal printer situations!) I'd pay a few extra $$ for the convenience of it!

 

There is another thread on this. Some in this same situation take the files to a printer like FedEx/Kinkos and print in color there. Doing this in one swoop would most likely be cheaper than buying a pre-printed color text from someone else who did the same thing via a printing service.

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We are experiencing a math burnout with MM, but I think it is because I made DS7 do **ALL** the problems on the page. That and he needs to rewrite some into vertical problems not horizontal, and that can be time consuming for a child who is allergic to a pencil (except when drawing) ;)

 

 

I will say that while *I* really like MM, our dds prefer the more spiral approach of CLE in our case. So we supplement with MM for the more conceptual stuff and another perspective on things. No program is perfect for every child. Sometimes a combination of things or simply adding a supplement can help. We also use Hands on Equations and DragonBox.

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We are experiencing a math burnout with MM, but I think it is because I made DS7 do **ALL** the problems on the page. That and he needs to rewrite some into vertical problems not horizontal, and that can be time consuming for a child who is allergic to a pencil (except when drawing) ;)

 

Yeah, that would be a recipe for disaster here too. I usually go through the teaching box/examples aloud, and then have her do the first few problems with me there, either orally or written, depending. If she clearly gets it, I circle half the problems for each exercise and have her do them. If she does them perfectly, she's done! If she has trouble and needs help, or if she misses some, I assign more. This has the benefit of providing the "just right" amount of practice, keeping the lessons shorter, and encouraging careful work, as she knows she'll get more problems assigned if she makes careless or sloppy errors.

 

We do one MM lesson a day, and if she finishes before the hour is up she gets to spend the rest of it working on something she likes - HOE, or LOF, or Khan. So there is always an hour of math, but the amount of that hour spent on MM varies.

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