NM

[Coco_Clark]

No. People should be trained in how to deal with blood either way. If the child is immune compromised her parents are in charge of keeping her away if they feel that's necessary, and sick kids shouldn't be brought to school anyways (within reason). People will just use the information to gossip and panic. I've seen a poor (under 6) child with announced Hepetitus get ostracized BY ADULTS. So sad to see.

[Mrs Mungo]

In our co-op groups we have had at least 4 or 5 incidents in which a kid was bleeding profusely and had to be taken to the hospital for stitches. A random adult usually used something to staunch the bleeding while we wait on the parent to get there. I have a cut on my pinkie right now from making breakfast yesterday. It is not insane to take precautions. My best friend has Hep C, which she apparently got from the dentist. I know how blood borne diseases are and are not spread.

 

People are correct that in small groups people are often not treated with the same precautions shown in hospitals. Our Scout groups can barely get enough *leaders* to do formal First Aid training to stay legal, never mind getting every parent in a co-op to do First Aid training.

 

Telling people in a general way that there is a child with a blood borne disease would make the adults more cautious. Then, you have a mandatory meeting at the beginning of each semester going over reminders about proper protocol, the location of first aid kits and so forth. I don't *think* it would have led to a crazy witch hunt in any of the groups that I have been involved with.

[Shellydon]

But, why wouldn't you do this anyway? Knowing someone in your class has HIV shouldn't change how you handle these kinds of things. Bodily fluids should always be handled properly.

 

 

I don't carry gloves around in my purse. Do you?

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

I don't, but shouldn't a co-op consider having a first aid kit that would include at least one pair of gloves?

 

 

So a child is dripping blood and nobody can touch him/her until you go fetch the first aid kit? Again, this is why disclosing the fact that people have a reason to be vigilant (not the specific disease, not names) will cause them to rethink their procedures. A first aid kit with gloves *will be* necessary in *each* room. Even scout standards only require one first aid kit per troop meeting. But, that first aid kit could be in an entirely different part of the building.

[Melissa in Australia]

 

 

I don't carry gloves around in my purse. Do you?

Yes I do. but I use to be a Personal Career in a previous life ( before homeschooling)

[Mergath]

So a child is dripping blood and nobody can touch him/her until you go fetch the first aid kit? Again, this is why disclosing the fact that people have a reason to be vigilant (not the specific disease, not names) will cause them to rethink their procedures. A first aid kit with gloves *will be* necessary in *each* room. Even scout standards only require one first aid kit per troop meeting. But, that first aid kit could be in an entirely different part of the building.

 

Even if an HIV positive child is "dripping blood," I can't imagine how anyone could get that much of it in (what would have to be) their own gaping wound to even have a chance to contract HIV. Are the people drinking it or something? Rolling in it? I've treated many a nasty boo-boo without getting a drop on myself.

 

I think the problem here is a lack of education when it comes to HIV.

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

Even if an HIV positive child is "dripping blood," I can't imagine how anyone could get that much of it in (what would have to be) their own gaping wound to even have a chance to contract HIV. Are the people drinking it or something? Rolling in it? I've treated many a nasty boo-boo without getting a drop on myself.

 

I think the problem here is a lack of education when it comes to HIV.

 

 

Sorry, but several other blood borne diseases have been mentioned here. The discussion is how to deal with blood borne diseases in general, yes? And developing protocols to go with them? If you already have a child in the group with a known blood borne disease, then it is best to use gloves in all such situations, yes? Then, the teachers need access to gloves and gauze in each room at a minimum, IMO.

[mamaraby]

Even if an HIV positive child is "dripping blood," I can't imagine how anyone could get that much of it in (what would have to be) their own gaping wound to even have a chance to contract HIV. Are the people drinking it or something? Rolling in it? I've treated many a nasty boo-boo without getting a drop on myself.

 

I think the problem here is a lack of education when it comes to HIV.

 

 

This, this, this. A thousand times this.

 

To whit - the CDC's website on HIV transmisson and the ridiculously tiny percentage (less than one-half of one-percent) of anyone getting HIV from cleaning up another child's cut - http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/transmission.htm.

[mamaraby]

 

 

Sorry, but several other blood borne diseases have been mentioned here. The discussion is how to deal with blood borne diseases in general, yes? And developing protocols to go with them? If you already have a child in the group with a known blood borne disease, then it is best to use gloves in all such situations, yes? Then, the teachers need access to gloves and gauze in each room at a minimum, IMO.

 

 

That's why they are called universal precautions. As in they're universal regardless of one's status which does not require that *anyone* know that anyone else has or doesn't have any number of bloodborne diseases. You do it because that's what we do now that we now better.

[Mrs Mungo]

That's why they are called universal precautions. As in they're universal regardless of one's status which does not require that *anyone* know that anyone else has or doesn't have any number of bloodborne diseases. You do it because that's what we do now that we now better.

 

 

This just doesn't account for the human factor in all of this. In my experience, people are more likely to accept the new standards if they have a reason to do so. Again, our scout group has around 75 kids and can barely get enough people to do the first aid training to stay legal. People don't want to think about this stuff. I am not in favor of disclosure in the vein that the OP seemed to discuss. But, letting people know that there is a known issue and these are the new precautions we need to implement and keep in case of future and/or unknown issues? That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I think people would be much more likely to accept and implement the new standards knowing there was a reason behind it. Otherwise, people tend to dismiss that stuff as bureaucratic nonsense.

 

Let's take a less controversial, more easily spread issue. My dd was in a play that had 3 different casts. Each "Mary Sue" wore the same costume on different nights. There were angels and all of the haloes were thrown in a box. Of course, a child turned up with lice. Parents were notified, everything was cleaned, they got new haloes of their own, kids were checked, etc. Nobody was named or outed or shamed in the process.

[mamaraby]

This just doesn't account for the human factor in all of this. In my experience, people are more likely to accept the new standards if they have a reason to do so. Again, our scout group has around 75 kids and can barely get enough people to do the first aid training to stay legal. People don't want to think about this stuff. I am not in favor of disclosure in the vein that the OP seemed to discuss. But, letting people know that there is a known issue and these are the new precautions we need to implement and keep in case of future and/or unknown issues? That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I think people would be much more likely to accept and implement the new standards knowing there was a reason behind it. Otherwise, people tend to dismiss that stuff as bureaucratic nonsense.

 

Let's take a less controversial, more easily spread issue. My dd was in a play that had 3 different casts. Each "Mary Sue" wore the same costume on different nights. There were angels and all of the haloes were thrown in a box. Of course, a child turned up with lice. Parents were notified, everything was cleaned, they got new haloes of their own, kids were checked, etc. Nobody was named or outed or shamed in the process.

 

Laziness and dismissive behavior by people because they think universal precautions are "bureaucratic nonsense" does not justify disclosing this sort of private and likely protected information. Not to mention the fact that the chances of one's child getting lice is far more likely than contracting HIV.

 

Apples and oranges. Disclosing this sort of information is a great way to invite gossip, speculation, and panic. Can you guarantee that these same "bureaucratic nonsense" parents aren't going to freak out and remove their children from co-op? Because to me all of this seems more like an issue of education than a right to know.

[Mrs Mungo]

Nowhere do I suggest disclosing private and/or protected information. Giving general information is not giving specific information. Do you not think that suddenly instituting a host of new protocols will not invite gossip as well? I would rather deal with it head-on.

 

I would rather they did remove their child from co-op, if they are that type. Would it be better to deal with the fall-out if those types found out after the fact?

[Mergath]

Let's take a less controversial, more easily spread issue. My dd was in a play that had 3 different casts. Each "Mary Sue" wore the same costume on different nights. There were angels and all of the haloes were thrown in a box. Of course, a child turned up with lice. Parents were notified, everything was cleaned, they got new haloes of their own, kids were checked, etc. Nobody was named or outed or shamed in the process.

 

The difference there is that lice is curable and non-fatal. No one demanded names or anything because overall, a case of head lice is fairly minor. Ignorant parents who think their kid is going to die if they get sneezed on by an HIV-positive kid are much more likely to demand names or institute their own witch-hunt.

[Mergath]

I also want to throw out there that some Christian groups still think HIV is strictly a "disease of immoral behavior." We've had people on this very forum say so. In my mind, that's yet another reason that in a homeschool co-op, especially, it's not a great idea to announce that one of the kids has HIV. You could very well end up with the more uber conservative religious families demanding they be ousted because they don't want to associate with such immoral people or whatever. And no, I can't roll my eyes hard enough at that idiotic line of thought. But if the OP lives in an especially religious area, letting that info slip could end up with the poor kid ostracized from the entire hsing community there, if someone figures out who it is.

[Seasider]

I also want to throw out there that some Christian groups still think HIV is strictly a "disease of immoral behavior." We've had people on this very forum say so. In my mind, that's yet another reason that in a homeschool co-op, especially, it's not a great idea to announce that one of the kids has HIV. You could very well end up with the more uber conservative religious families demanding they be ousted because they don't want to associate with such immoral people or whatever. And no, I can't roll my eyes hard enough at that idiotic line of thought. But if the OP lives in an especially religious area, letting that info slip could end up with the poor kid ostracized from the entire hsing community there, if someone figures out who it is.

 

 

Please don't play the religion card, Mergath. I am a fairly conservative Christian. My first encounter with AIDS came before it was even named. My dear friend's brother, a hemophiliac, died from contracting it via a blood transfusion.

 

There's enough misinformation out there not to muddy the waters with accusations such as this. Despite being near thirty years down the road from identifying the virus, many people of all stripes still fear contracting such diseases.

 

This is a difficult situation for the OP; hopefully it will result in an opportunity to educate a few more people as to the actual facts of living with an HIV positive status.

[Mrs Mungo]

I also want to throw out there that some Christian groups still think HIV is strictly a "disease of immoral behavior." We've had people on this very forum say so. In my mind, that's yet another reason that in a homeschool co-op, especially, it's not a great idea to announce that one of the kids has HIV. You could very well end up with the more uber conservative religious families demanding they be ousted because they don't want to associate with such immoral people or whatever. And no, I can't roll my eyes hard enough at that idiotic line of thought. But if the OP lives in an especially religious area, letting that info slip could end up with the poor kid ostracized from the entire hsing community there, if someone figures out who it is.

 

 

My last co-op was a combined group of religious and non-religious people. We had strong leadership who believed in the power of inclusion. Things would not have gone down that way in that group. I cannot speak to what other groups would do. I, personally, find it unlikely that such a family would have no supporters. I have homeschooled in multiple communities over the course of the last 12 years.

[Mergath]

Please don't play the religion card, Mergath. I am a fairly conservative Christian. My first encounter with AIDS came before it was even named. My dear friend's brother, a hemophiliac, died from contracting it via a blood transfusion.

 

There's enough misinformation out there not to muddy the waters with accusations such as this. Despite being near thirty years down the road from identifying the virus, many people of all stripes still fear contracting such diseases.

 

This is a difficult situation for the OP; hopefully it will result in an opportunity to educate a few more people as to the actual facts of living with an HIV positive status.

 

 

It's not an accusation if we've had people on this forum make that claim. And we have. Quite recently, in fact. It may be hard to believe, but there are religious groups out there that believe some extremely strange things about various diseases. When I was a teen, I had a coworker at a summer job threaten to quit if she had to work with me when she found out I had epilepsy. Why? Because her church had taught her that epileptics are possessed by demons. This was just over ten years ago, in about the year 2000. Before that time, I had never dreamed of hiding my epilepsy. Now I understand that some people are lunatics, and you don't tell these people any more than you have to.

 

A lot of the people that hang out in homeschooling circles have some extreme religious beliefs. It's why they're drawn to homeschooling in the first place. I don't know anything about the OP's co-op, but if it has a lot of extremely conservative members, that could cause additional problems if the kid's status is disclosed, even in an anonymous way.

 

Also, just because you knew someone who knew someone with AIDS doesn't mean you get to decide who's allowed to say what about it. At this point, I think most of us know or have known someone with HIV or AIDS.

[Shellydon]

Even if an HIV positive child is "dripping blood," I can't imagine how anyone could get that much of it in (what would have to be) their own gaping wound to even have a chance to contract HIV. Are the people drinking it or something? Rolling in it? I've treated many a nasty boo-boo without getting a drop on myself.

 

I think the problem here is a lack of education when it comes to HIV.

 

 

 

Last year a child fell and smashed her face hard on a concrete sidewalk at our co-op playgroup. Blood absolutely poured from her nose. Rivers of it. I got blood all over my hands helping her as did one other mom. I was able to get her nose to stop bleeding and by the time the paramedics arrived. She had to go for a CT scan. That is how you get blood all over your hands, helping someone that is injured.

[8circles]

At this point, I think most of us know or have known someone with HIV or AIDS.

 

As an aside, I actually don't know nor have I ever met anyone with HIV or AIDS ( that I know of, of course). i'm not sheltered so that always strikes me as odd.

[LucyStoner]

I am aware of a number of HIV positive children whose families have to get their meds shipped to them from out of town because different small town pharmacists or staff broke the law and gossiped. While I think that most people would be supportive and well informed, not everyone is supportive and in fact some people are hurtful all the way up to dangerous. There's a whole lotta crazy out there. Universal precautions should be taught, emphasized and used. Someone may have a blood borne illness that they don't even know about or don't tell the school so complacency is not an option just because the group feels homey.

 

It's worth noting again that the chances of me getting HIV from an HIV positive child bleeding into a minor cut on my hand are VERY low even if I take no post exposure antiretrovirals (ARV). There are no documented cases of transmission through blood to minor wound contact since even before the advent of ARVs and ARVs make it that much less likely since in the US if you have an accident with someone who is HIV positive they are quite often going to have very very low viral loads. There are zero documented cases from blood to intact skin contact. In the unlikely but admittedly still possible scenario that someone does have blood to wound contact, they need to be informed that they have been exposed but even then a post exposure ARV treatment may not even be recommended by a doctor because the infection risk is so low compared to the side effects of post exposure treatment. Again, anyone could be exposed this way but not informed because we were exposed by someone who didn't know or didn't tell. Thus underscoring why universal precautions are the absolute best thing and why people shouldn't get lazy over it or only bother to care if they know there is a child with HIV or an unnamed blood borne illness in the group. Even apart from blood borne illness it is a wise precaution to glove up to protect the injured person from whatever junk you have on your hands.

[swellmomma]

Universal precautions should be followed regardless if someone has HIV or not, so no the status should not be revealed unless the family asks to do so themselves. If you have not previously followed universal precautions in your program now is the time to start and just say new rule for program when blood, vomit or other bodily fluids are present : gloves, bleach solution in a spray bottle for clean up, paper towels not washable cloths for cleaning up so they can be tied in a bag and put right into dumpster etc. I would be more worried about hep, flu, norwalk, or any other number of viruses before I worried about hiv transmission in a co-op setting. At least with hiv if you follow universal precautions the risk is tiny, with hep if you miss a spot while cleaning it up it can survive for hours-up to 16 (hep C) weeks (hep B) or even months (hep A). HIV can only last a couple hours at the very most outside the body, so if using universal precautions for handling and clean up and miss a spot the risk is miniscule to actually contract it.

[swellmomma]

As an aside, I actually don't know nor have I ever met anyone with HIV or AIDS ( that I know of, of course). i'm not sheltered so that always strikes me as odd.

 

Me either. Perhaps someone I know has had it and not revealed that to be the case, but as far as I know I have never met someone with HIV/AIDS

[Jean in Newcastle]

I know very few people who would reveal their HIV status - unless it were to their s*xual partner and perhaps a few close friends. With AIDS, people will often reveal it just because as it progresses the effects become more obvious.

[swellmomma]

 

 

Last year a child fell and smashed her face hard on a concrete sidewalk at our co-op playgroup. Blood absolutely poured from her nose. Rivers of it. I got blood all over my hands helping her as did one other mom. I was able to get her nose to stop bleeding and by the time the paramedics arrived. She had to go for a CT scan. That is how you get blood all over your hands, helping someone that is injured.

 

When I worked in long term care I had a 97 year old patient that had a psychotic episode and in the process of throwing things around her room sliced her hand wide open. I was the first one with her and she grabbed both of my hands as hard as she could before I even had time to grab gloves. I ended up sitting with her clenching my hands until they were able to medicate her and stitch it back up because it was the only thing that was calming her. I had blood all over both hands up the the wrists, on my shirt, on my pants, you name it I had blood on it. Although they knew her health they did a blood draw to double check that she didn't have anything for me to catch, and I had to have blood tests done a couple times in the weeks/months following to be sure as well (hospital setting they are very cautious). It only takes a moment in a situation like that to be covered. Especially with kids because your first instict is to grab them and make them better, not stop and go get gloves to put on.

[Pamela H in Texas]

If your child has HepB people should be told. If your family has a member that has HIV then, yes, people should be notified. There would not be so much fear of the issue if people stepped out and educated others. If it is kept hush, hush, and then leaked people are going to be upset over it. We have a good friend that has adopted two boys with HIV. She has spent a lot of time educating people and is willing to discuss any questions or concerns people have.

 

Do you disclose every issue your child has? I don't. Certain behaviors could greatly impact other children also. Maybe we should start having to disclose those also?

 

I think it is fine for your friend to disclose to people and educate. I share a LOT about my children or certain issues more generally with others. I want people to be aware what they are getting into fostering, for example. And sometimes I share more about why we don't do X or Y that other families can do because of attachment disorder, for example. Well, and now people are interested in why Heidi is doing therapy and becoming a service dog (got awhile before that will happen). But it my CHOICE to disclose, what to disclose, how much to disclose, when to disclose, how to disclose, etc. And it is my choice NOT to do so.

 

It isn't about being "hush hush" about it. Children deserve privacy. People with HIV deserve privacy. And my child's status on any number of issues, including HIV, is none of your business unless I choose to tell you.

[Spryte]

I know very few people who would reveal their HIV status - unless it were to their s*xual partner and perhaps a few close friends. With AIDS, people will often reveal it just because as it progresses the effects become more obvious.

 

Very true. The adults I know who are HIV+ do not disclose this information lightly. For reasons that seemed obvious - discrimination, fear, gossip, etc. Adults can make their own choices, but children depend on their caregivers to protect their privacy.

[8circles]

As an aside, I actually don't know nor have I ever met anyone with HIV or AIDS ( that I know of, of course). i'm not sheltered so that always strikes me as odd.

I know very few people who would reveal their HIV status - unless it were to their s*xual partner and perhaps a few close friends. With AIDS, people will often reveal it just because as it progresses the effects become more obvious.

Jean, I know you weren't responding to me but I just wanted to clarify that I don't expect people to be telling me & I totally get why they wouldn't. It just always strikes me when people say things like "we all know people who have..." and I'm really not sure I do. I guess I wouldn't be surprised to find out someone I know is HIV/AIDS but it isn't an obvious - "of course I know someone".