Matryoshka Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 So, we've been using K12's HO books (which I really like) for the past couple of years. My older two went to high school this year, and younger dd tried out 6th, but now she's back home. Younger dd is not a big history buff, so I've streamlined what we used to do (adding in lots of documentaries and historical fiction), and now she's just reading the text and I've started using the student pages with her (guided reading, some map work, and a few other activities). We go over everything together and orally discuss some of it, and still watch the occasional documentary or historical film. This is actually working quite well. But... we'll soon finish up the second HO volume. While I didn't much care for the student pages for the 1st volume (dropped them after trying them out a short while), I've found the ones for the 2nd volume quite useful. Volume 3 doesn't have any student pages - the whole thing is online. My plan was to finish K12 HO and then do American Odyssey over 7th and 8th grades. But what for output? I've thought of just having her outline them and write a few papers. Is that enough? Again, she is not crazy about either history or writing. So now I'm wondering if it would make any sense to sign her up for the online courses (mostly so she'd be accountable to someone else...). She'll be in 7th/8th, and these are high school courses, but there are three levels. Would the lowest level be doable/appropriate for a middle schooler? What is the difference between their "Core" and "Comprehensive" courses? Anyone taken either of these and be able to speak to what kinds of assignments they do? Are they engaging? How is the teacher support/interaction (required to buy for these courses)? Is it only as-needed, or is there guidance from the teacher? Are there online discussions? Anyone know if I'm I correct in my reading of their S&S that their two US History courses are not sequential, but either/or?? And for $425/semester, am I completely nuts and should I just call the outlining and a couple papers good?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I can only compare the history to what is done in the science...each level adds a bit more content, and science added an additional lab (or two), and a paper that wasn't required in the "core." I would imagine that history would perhaps add additional reading assignments (or maybe video), and a bit more writing. We've never had teacher support/interaction with a course (other than through a VA), but even with the VA the interaction/support can be quite varied. If you call CS, they will be able to give you more information about how it runs. I'm planning on using the textbook in 9th grade, and having my son outline, and write a paper per chapter (1-2 pager) on a topic of his interest that was covered in the chapter, and two larger papers 5-10 pages for his midterm and final (again, covering a topic of his choosing from the semester in more depth) I'll be using some reading selections from Omnibus 3, and including videos/lectures for important things within the time period (he'll be doing AP US History in 11th, AP Gov't in 12th so I'll be splitting up what we cover between those three courses). For 7th & 8th, I wouldn't do as much writing as I've outlined for my son...have her outline, throw in some additional lectures, and have her take notes, read books like: Bud & Me, Anne Frank, Diary of a Young Girl, Destination Moon, The Hiding Place, Hitch, Story of Inventions, The Story of the Trapp Family Singers (and watch The Sound of Music :D), WWII for Kids, Great speeches of the time...To Kill a Mockingbird... If it were my 7th-8th grade, not a history-buff child, I wouldn't sign her up for the K12 high-school level history course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 For 7th & 8th, I wouldn't do as much writing as I've outlined for my son...have her outline, throw in some additional lectures, and have her take notes, read books like: Bud & Me, Anne Frank, Diary of a Young Girl, Destination Moon, The Hiding Place, Hitch, Story of Inventions, The Story of the Trapp Family Singers (and watch The Sound of Music :D), WWII for Kids, Great speeches of the time...To Kill a Mockingbird... Sigh. The problem is, she won't read much of that. She really can't stand most historical fiction, which is the big reason I'm even thinking in this direction. It's not a battle worth fighting - there's lots of other great literature that I can get her to read. We will still watch some videos - I can sneak in some documentaries (also not her favorite) and the movies of some of those books will likely be well-received. If it were my 7th-8th grade, not a history-buff child, I wouldn't sign her up for the K12 high-school level history course. I just asked her what she'd rather do, and she said she'd like to try the class - I think the Core level might not be a big step up? It will definitely be a lot more "output" than I'll get from her, but they said it was just the basics and not as in-depth - it does not sound like Core would be enough for what I'd consider high-school level.. ? I will try to get more detailed info on exactly what the assignments are. I think she knows that she's going to fight me on everything, and she'd rather answer to someone else. I'm wondering if it would at least make sense to try it for a semester? I did talk to K12, and they were somewhat helpful, but still left me with a lot of questions. They said there were 2-3 teacher-led interactive sessions a week? What are those like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 We are having ds11 outline occasionally, answer some comprehension questions I put together while I watched a few episodes of Continuum on Netflix, and do some projects. He also has a small stack of historical fiction to get through. We are letting history bump a bit lower this year and are focusing on writing and pre-algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Sigh. The problem is, she won't read much of that. She really can't stand most historical fiction, which is the big reason I'm even thinking in this direction. It's not a battle worth fighting - there's lots of other great literature that I can get her to read. We will still watch some videos - I can sneak in some documentaries (also not her favorite) and the movies of some of those books will likely be well-received. I just asked her what she'd rather do, and she said she'd like to try the class - I think the Core level might not be a big step up? It will definitely be a lot more "output" than I'll get from her, but they said it was just the basics and not as in-depth - it does not sound like Core would be enough for what I'd consider high-school level.. ? I will try to get more detailed info on exactly what the assignments are. I think she knows that she's going to fight me on everything, and she'd rather answer to someone else. I'm wondering if it would at least make sense to try it for a semester? I did talk to K12, and they were somewhat helpful, but still left me with a lot of questions. They said there were 2-3 teacher-led interactive sessions a week? What are those like? Essentially they will meet in a virtual classroom, with whiteboard discussions...pretty sure they aren't just a lecture. Usually give & take. Core is enough for a high school credit. She will have to be on-time, participation will count (she'll need to be prepared), and there will be deadlines to meet for homework, tests, etc. I'm not sure 100% how this works (I've heard some say you can work at your own pace...go slower/faster...but that the pacing for discussions is pretty well-set, and if you are behind the pace of the class it can impact your grade). As far as the books...most of those weren't historical fiction (just as an FYI). For 7th and 8th grade I wouldn't have a problem watching To Kill a Mockingbird, Anne Frank, The Hiding Place vs. reading those. As far as her wanting to take the class, as long as she understands that it will be a high school level class, and that they will expect her to work at a high school level, then I'd say let her try (I'm not much for telling a motivated student that they "can't" do something...but I am all for making sure they understand that the expectations for her will be the same at 12/13 as they would be for the 14/15 year old) (I just looked up the course description... Core requires a research project, and presentation 2nd semester, Comprehensive requires that as well, but I expect they will have additional shorter writing assignments, Honors has the research project/presentation, plus two additional honors projects, and I would expect additional shorter writing assignments). Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3andme Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Honestly, I think there are better and more affordable options out there which would be more appropriate for a rising 7th grader (unless they're very advanced) if you are just looking for more output or accountability. I think American Odyssey is a readable, quality option but I wouldn't let it drive your decision. Landry Academy has a middle school American History course which uses BJU's American Republic. This is actually a very readable textbook and is just a small step below American Odyssey in difficulty. They also have several more thematic courses at the middle school level such as the Western Movement or Colonial Period. If you want to get a feel for the classes, you can note the instructor's name from the class page and then go the Faculty page and you will often find sample class recordings under the Instructor's name. Memoria Press has a one year middle school American History course which uses Guerber's American History books and is only $400 for the year. Veritas Press has self paced online courses. Each course might be a bit light on their own but you might try combining the last 2 courses (Explorers to 1815 and 1815 to present) in one year. They both have a heavy focus on American History and include optional readings. Potter's School has a one year middle school American History course (sample video) which uses a number of "living" books in lieu of a textbook and is $430. BJU's Online Class - This is an 8th grade class which uses BJU's American Republic. It has 30 min. dailly lessons. You can see a sample video online. $399. Online G3 - If you haven't used Hakim's Story of US yet, this might be an option. It covers all 10 books over 2 years. The courses are designed for younger,gifted students but would still be appropriate material for .a typical middle schooler. The output might be low for middle school (not much traditional essay writing) but they do other creative projects. The teaching itself is excellent and gets the student thinking critically about history. $440 for year. Notgrass's America the Beautiful - Alternative textbook - definitely lower level then K12's Amer. Odyssey but still a good overview with everything planned out. PACWORK's American History Course - Alternative textbook - Readable and appealing text with strong focus on cultural history. Originally designed to be done over 2 years but you could accelerate if you wish. All American History - Alternative textbook. Designed for a 2 year study. If your child is more advanced and capable of high school work, then there are also high school level classes available at the same online academies listed above as well as at some other academies not listed. For alternative textbooks at the Amer. Odyssey level, you might consider doing America: The Last Best Hope and the accompanying Roadmap over two-three years.The Roadmap provides a complete curriculum planning guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 As far as her wanting to take the class, as long as she understands that it will be a high school level class, and that they will expect her to work at a high school level, then I'd say let her try (I'm not much for telling a motivated student that they "can't" do something...but I am all for making sure they understand that the expectations for her will be the same at 12/13 as they would be for the 14/15 year old) (I just looked up the course description... Core requires a research project, and presentation 2nd semester, Comprehensive requires that as well, but I expect they will have additional shorter writing assignments, Honors has the research project/presentation, plus two additional honors projects, and I would expect additional shorter writing assignments). I would actually like her to do a research project (and the presentation looks like it's just of the research project, not a separate thing?). True that she might not have the sophistication of a 9th grader, but again it's the lowest level course - I'm thinking if I did this it would be just Core level. Whiteboard discussions are probably also a plus rather than a minus - when she was in school this year, the teachers all praised her participation. I think she does better when she has other people to bounce stuff off of (especially if they are not me). I also wouldn't have to count the grades from this anywhere, as she won't actually be in high school yet... Anyone know what grade their US History course is supposed to be for? Looking again at the American Odyssey text, it does seem a big step up from the HO style. And waaay more text! HO vol. 3 is about a third the length of AO, and they both are supposed to be covered in a year... for this reason the Modern World History class doesn't seem as intimidating to me as the US History one. I don't know yet whether she's going to school or staying home for high school. I'm wondering if I should keep this one on the back burner in case she stays home, and have her take it at one of the higher levels... (if she stays home I've already decided I'll outsource history and lit classes - I've also been looking at Laurel Springs Academy for those subjects). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Honestly, I think there are better and more affordable options out there which would be more appropriate for a rising 7th grader (unless they're very advanced) if you are just looking for more output or accountability. I think American Odyssey is a readable, quality option but I wouldn't let it drive your decision. Landry Academy has a middle school American History course which uses BJU's American Republic. This is actually a very readable textbook and is just a small step below American Odyssey in difficulty. They also have several more thematic courses at the middle school level such as the Western Movement or Colonial Period. If you want to get a feel for the classes, you can note the instructor's name from the class page and then go the Faculty page and you will often find sample class recordings under the Instructor's name. Memoria Press has a one year middle school American History course which uses Guerber's American History books and is only $400 for the year. Veritas Presshas self paced online courses. Each course might be a bit light on their own but you might try combining the last 2 courses (Explorers to 1815 and 1815 to present) in one year. They both have a heavy focus on American History and include optional readings. Potter's School has a one year middle school American History course (sample video) which uses a number of "living" books in lieu of a textbook and is $430. BJU's Online Class - This is an 8th grade class which uses BJU's American Republic. It has 30 min. dailly lessons. You can see a sample video online. $399. Online G3 - If you haven't used Hakim's Story of US yet, this might be an option. It covers all 10 books over 2 years. The courses are designed for younger,gifted students but would still be appropriate material for .a typical middle schooler. The output might be low for middle school (not much traditional essay writing) but they do other creative projects. The teaching itself is excellent and gets the student thinking critically about history. $440 for year. Notgrass's America the Beautiful - Alternative textbook - definitely lower level then K12's Amer. Odyssey but still a good overview with everything planned out. PACWORK's American History Course - Alternative textbook - Readable and appealing text with strong focus on cultural history. Originally designed to be done over 2 years but you could accelerate if you wish. All American History - Alternative textbook. Designed for a 2 year study. If your child is more advanced and capable of high school work, then there are also high school level classes available at the same online academies listed above as well as at some other academies not listed. For alternative textbooks at the Amer. Odyssey level, you might consider doing America: The Last Best Hope and the accompanying Roadmap over two-three years.The Roadmap provides a complete curriculum planning guide. Thanks, that's a lot of choices for US History! The unfortunate thing for me is that most of them are Christian worldview (some maybe even heading toward Providential or Dominionist history?) which is pretty much polar opposite of what I'd want... The last one is for public schools, so I'd think secular? but wow, that's a lot of info! And three years? I've thought of Hakim many times, but have never managed to get excited - which quite superficially of me seems to be partly an issue with how the books are laid out - I find the layout a bit unreadable. I've wondered about the new redesigned four-volume ones by K12 (but those are written for 5-6th grades?) But I could beef those up - but at $60/each and no way to preview... arrrgh!! Okay - found them used on Amazon - still very pricey but they had a volume D for cheap, so I guess that's how I'll preview! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 American History (using American Odyssey) -- 11th for Core, Comprehensive and Honors...different text for AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 American History (using American Odyssey) -- 11th for Core, Comprehensive and Honors...different text for AP. Ah... that makes sense, then. I find it very difficult on the K12 website to figure out what their "standard" progression is for the high school classes. Any idea what it is? What is their "standard" history class for 10th grade? Just curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3andme Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 We are also secular and see your dilemma - there just aren't that many good options. I plan on using either American Odyssey or Last Best Hope over 2 years in 8th and 9th grade as a second round of American History. Pacworks is good at middle school level esp. as a first go round. It's definitely not a fact cram - more of a social history narrative but it could make a nice conceptual framework for later study. Not as thorough as Amer. Odyssey though. There's also Oak Meadow's High School American History. I like Hakim - we're using that right now. I think it's fine for middle school except for advanced students. I haven't seen the condensed versions but they sound good. You might take a serious look at Onlineg3. I actually previewed one of their history courses a few years ago when it was offered in a condensed, summer semester for only $99 . I would have used it for oldest ds but I started homeschooling my younger 2 ds as well and it was easier to combine them. The teacher is really excellent. She doesn't lecture but instead finds interesting ways to review the highlights each session (jeopardy, solve the mystery, etc.) and also uses quite a few examples from the Critical Thinking in US History series. to examine diff. viewpoints and biases on a deeper level. The assignments are usually fun and creative and give students an opportunity to interact with each other by commenting on their classmates' projects. There are some very precocious younger students in the classes as this is targeted to gifted students but I think it could work for an older student as well. It might be light if you have a gifted or advanced middle schooler though. Re: K12, I'm not sure they have a standard sequence because of the diff. state requirements. I read somewhere that the original sequence was to take Modern World History in 9th using HO 3 and then American at a later point. The regular World History class was designed for students who hadn't used HO 1-3 with K12 and needed a one year survey course to catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Matryoshka, here is a list of their options for HS history: Core / Comprehensive HST102/3: World History HST202/3: Modern World Studies HST212/3: Geography and World Cultures HST302/3: U.S. History HST312/3: Modern U.S. History HST402/3: U.S. Government and Politics HST412/3: U.S. and Global Economics Honors/AP HST104: Honors World History HST204: Honors Modern World Studies HST304: Honors U.S. History HST314: Honors Modern U.S. History HST500: AP U.S. History HST510: AP U.S. Government and Politics HST520: AP Macroeconomics HST530: AP Microeconomics HST540: AP Psychology HST550: AP European History HST560: AP World History Electives HST010: Anthropology HST020: Psychology HST030: Macroeconomics HST040-AVT: Civics it looks like the "Modern World Studies" course is for those who used K12 for MS and have done HO volumes 1 & 2, and the one-yr World History survey is for those who haven't. Then the ones who did the survey course can do Modern World Studies in 10th, while those who already did the 3-volume series can do Geography & Cultures (1 semester course) plus an elective, or go ahead with US History in 10th. It seems a bit odd since, as you mentioned, HO3 is a pretty thin volume, while the US & World History texts are huge, and they are each covered in a year. I assume the online classes must add a LOT to the HO3 text? :confused1: FWIW, I have a couple of the K12 "concise" versions of Hakim, and I like them a lot better than the originals. There are 4 volumes, and I think if they were used 1 per semester, they would make an excellent, and not overwhelming, spine for a 2 yr US History course. I'm debating using them next year w/DD (6th), but I don't really want to spend 2 yrs on American History, I don't generally use textbooks in MS, and I have so many other resources it would be overkill to use them all. So I still haven't decided! I wish there were audiobooks of the concise versions — if there were, I would definitely use those. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 it looks like the "Modern World Studies" course is for those who used K12 for MS and have done HO volumes 1 & 2, and the one-yr World History survey is for those who haven't. Then the ones who did the survey course can do Modern World Studies in 10th, while those who already did the 3-volume series can do Geography & Cultures (1 semester course) plus an elective, or go ahead with US History in 10th. It seems a bit odd since, as you mentioned, HO3 is a pretty thin volume, while the US & World History texts are huge, and they are each covered in a year. I assume the online classes must add a LOT to the HO3 text? :confused1: FWIW, I have a couple of the K12 "concise" versions of Hakim, and I like them a lot better than the originals. There are 4 volumes, and I think if they were used 1 per semester, they would make an excellent, and not overwhelming, spine for a 2 yr US History course. I'm debating using them next year w/DD (6th), but I don't really want to spend 2 yrs on American History, I don't generally use textbooks in MS, and I have so many other resources it would be overkill to use them all. So I still haven't decided! I wish there were audiobooks of the concise versions — if there were, I would definitely use those. Thanks, Jackie - that's useful info. I'm leaning toward going with probably the Core Modern Studies class next year, then if I like the concise Hakim that's coming doing that (without a class, just as a spine) for 8th and if she stays home, 9th and then maybe Laurel Springs World in 10th and LS or K12 US History at a higher level in 11th. Now I'm starting to ponder English - if she stayed home for high school I'd been thinking I'd outsource that - I was looking at Laurel Springs for that too, but I've also been perusing the K12, maybe even starting in 8th (if I don't outsource history in 8th, maybe I can offload that). If anyone has thoughts or feedback on their English grades 8-12, I posted another thread about that on the high school board here. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 You may have already seen this list, but if not, here is a link to the complete list of readings for the 8th/9th English course — it includes all the short stories, poems, etc., that are in the K12 reader for the "Comprehensive" level course, as well as details about some of the writing assignments. I actually own all the K12 components of it (the grammar book is from another publisher), so if you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to look stuff up for you. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 You may have already seen this list, but if not, here is a link to the complete list of readings for the 8th/9th English course — it includes all the short stories, poems, etc., that are in the K12 reader for the "Comprehensive" level course, as well as details about some of the writing assignments. I actually own all the K12 components of it (the grammar book is from another publisher), so if you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to look stuff up for you. Yes, thanks - I've got that printed out. What I really want to know is what the heck they do in 9th (Honors, which follows if you do their 8th), because what they have in the 9th grade S&S link is the 12th grade S&S - I'm pretty sure that 9th and 12th grade are not the same (I'm pretty sure of the two it's 12th because they use book "D"). Did you do the course on your own or with K12? How did you think the readings were? Workload? Quality of writing assignments? As I said in the other thread, I'd be happier staying with MCT for grammar/vocab, but I can't seem to find a good Lit/Comp class that doesn't also include grammar/vocab... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I haven't used the online course, I just kept an eye out on Amazon and bought the printed materials whenever I found a good, used copy really cheap. I'm considering using it with DD at some point in middle school, since she is the polar opposite of DS and likes more scheduling and structuring than he does. I'd do it at home, though, and skip the K12 grammar and vocab components. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 ETA: I'm just running out the door, but I could look through the student and teacher guides tonight and give you an idea of what the assignments are like.... Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I have got to stay off these boards - you people are killing me with your great resources! I have been researching Roanoke, Jamestown, & Pocahontas like crazy and I already have way more options than we can possibly use, but that Critical Thinking Co. book looks amazing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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