WRTR for older kids

[Murrayshire]

I've got the WRTR on hold with my library....waiting for them to call me so I can pick it up!! I've been reading lots of threads about WRTR and it's making my head spin. Too much info overload for me to read it all! So.....I will have a 2nd grader and 5th grader that I will consider using it with. My rising 5th grader is using Phonetic Zoo and though I have seen a ton of improvement in her spelling, I still fill like she struggles a bit. We use the program to the "T".....no slacking here. Would WRTR benefit her with just learning the phonograms but still using Phonetic Zoo?

 

For my 1st grader this year, we have almost completed OPGTR and I've been happy with his progress. We also use AAS and are towards the beginning of Level 3. I feel like it is more pieced than whole. I find myself going back a lot to the phonograms and to certain words that I thought he had already mastered. He is strong in reading and spelling.....but I wonder if I should make the switch to WRTR? I know "if it ain't broke"....WRTR seems like it is much quicker and to the point (but thorough) than AAS. Can anyone help me figure out if switching would be the best thing right now or sticking it out with AAS? Thank you!

[Murrayshire]

Ellie, if you could chime in I would be so grateful!

[edeemarie]

We switched to WRTR from AAS and I couldn't be happier! I think all kids (and moms too!) really benefit from learning the phonograms. I have learned so much about spelling just from teaching my kids. I was the type of person that could memorize words, but never knew the why behind the spelling. I have one natural spelling child and one that is not, and they both are doing very well with WRTR. I think starting an older child would be just fine because there is nothing babyish at all about WRTR. And it really is a lot easier than most people make it sound. For us, we started with the phonograms. We drilled those until the kids knew all of the sounds. Then we started the spelling notebook as described in WRTR. The kids each work at their own level (ds9 is more advanced in the book than dd7). We do 10 new spelling words a day and after they get to 40 words I give them a test. Any words they miss I mark and we redo those words in their notebook before we start new words until they get them correct on test day. I make sure we spend at least one day a week reviewing phonograms (we did that more when they were first learning them). I also put a bunch of tabs on my WRTR manual to keep from so much flipping back and forth. Here is what I have marked: Spelling Rule Notebook Pages, Phonograms, Spelling Rules, Syllable types and divisions, Spelling Notebook Sample pages, Spelling word list, and the Spelling scope & sequence. Hope that helps:)

[nansk]

Would WRTR benefit her with just learning the phonograms but still using Phonetic Zoo?

Yes. You can use the Spalding method with any English word. The Phonetic Zoo words that I have seen did not seem at all harder than those in the Extended Ayres list (which Spalding uses).

Personally, I didn't like the spelling rules in Phonetic Zoo; the Spalding rules are simpler and easier to understand. Also, the Spalding method is spiral (PZ is mastery, right?) so rules keep getting reviewed over and over again, resulting in ultimate mastery.

 

He is strong in reading and spelling.....but I wonder if I should make the switch to WRTR? I know "if it ain't broke"...Can anyone help me figure out if switching would be the best thing right now or sticking it out with AAS?

I have no experience with AAS, but knowing it has the same phonograms and rules as Spalding, if I were you, I would continue with AAS. If you say he is reading and spelling well, then AAS seems to be working.

 

I find myself going back a lot to the phonograms and to certain words that I thought he had already mastered.

You will have to review phonograms and words even in Spalding. So it doesn't seem like AAS is more work. I would stay with AAS since it is working.

 

Hope that helps. :)

[Ellie]

I've got the WRTR on hold with my library....waiting for them to call me so I can pick it up!! I've been reading lots of threads about WRTR and it's making my head spin. Too much info overload for me to read it all! So.....I will have a 2nd grader and 5th grader that I will consider using it with. My rising 5th grader is using Phonetic Zoo and though I have seen a ton of improvement in her spelling, I still fill like she struggles a bit. We use the program to the "T".....no slacking here. Would WRTR benefit her with just learning the phonograms but still using Phonetic Zoo?

 

For my 1st grader this year, we have almost completed OPGTR and I've been happy with his progress. We also use AAS and are towards the beginning of Level 3. I feel like it is more pieced than whole. I find myself going back a lot to the phonograms and to certain words that I thought he had already mastered. He is strong in reading and spelling.....but I wonder if I should make the switch to WRTR? I know "if it ain't broke"....WRTR seems like it is much quicker and to the point (but thorough) than AAS. Can anyone help me figure out if switching would be the best thing right now or sticking it out with AAS? Thank you!

 

That would be *Spalding* for older kids. Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual. :-)

 

Just learning the phonograms isn't doing Spalding; it might help some, but if you want to see true progress, you need to do Spalding.

 

I, of course, would say YES!! do Spalding!! :D But I can't really tell whether AAS isn't really working for you or not. It might be normal to have to keep referring to the phonograms or words that had previously been taught, especially with a 6yo. IDK. OTOH, doing one thing (Spalding) instead of two (OPGTR plus AAS...plus anything you might be using for penmanship) is certainly more efficient. :laugh:

[mrs.m]

Ellie, can we start with cursive if we are starting with an older child? I'm still on The Spelling Lesson / handwriting part of the book. I was amazed last night at my second time through when I realized handwriting practice separate from phonogram learning might be the reason that my oldest ds can't get some words from his head to the paper correctly but can spell them orally.

[Ellie]

Ellie, can we start with cursive if we are starting with an older child? I'm still on The Spelling Lesson / handwriting part of the book. I was amazed last night at my second time through when I realized handwriting practice separate from phonogram learning might be the reason that my oldest can't get some words from his head to the paper correctly but can spell them orally.

 

No, I'd start with manuscript, just as the manual says. Once he knows the 70 phonograms and can *correctly* write them from dictation (written phonogram review), then he can do cursive. It should not take long for that to happen. :-) Children need to be fluent in manuscript as well as in cursive. :-)

[mrs.m]

Thank you. I just read that in the book after I posted. There's a lot of info to take in.

[Murrayshire]

That would be *Spalding* for older kids. Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual. :-)

 

Just learning the phonograms isn't doing Spalding; it might help some, but if you want to see true progress, you need to do Spalding.

 

I, of course, would say YES!! do Spalding!! :D But I can't really tell whether AAS isn't really working for you or not. It might be normal to have to keep referring to the phonograms or words that had previously been taught, especially with a 6yo. IDK. OTOH, doing one thing (Spalding) instead of two (OPGTR plus AAS...plus anything you might be using for penmanship) is certainly more efficient. :laugh:

 

 

Exactly....efficient! I feel like we do this, and that, and a lil' this, and some more of that! It makes me wonder if it's all connecting. He is reading well but needs more practice with spelling. When he writes in his journal to go along with his books, he isn't very confident with spelling. This hinders his wanting to write. I know he is still young.......I'm not pushing too much with writing. We used WWE 1/ FLL 1/ HWOT 1 & 2 this year and he jots down what he has read from his reading books in all subjects. (Science, etc.) He does pretty well with dictations in AAS. I guess what I'm asking is....am I going to be back-tracking if I stop AAS and move to something else OR would switching over to WRTR help with connecting it all together to help him learn in a more unified way? Thank you for helping!

[Ellie]

I guess what I'm asking is....am I going to be back-tracking if I stop AAS and move to something else OR would switching over to WRTR help with connecting it all together to help him learn in a more unified way? Thank you for helping!

 

 

Switching to Spalding *might* involve a little backtracking, but only for a short time. I think the Spalding method (remember: Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual) does help connect everything.

[Murrayshire]

I just ordered the 4th and 6th editions used from another Hive Member off Classifieds. I hope I'm making the right choice. Should I just continue with AAS 3 through the summer and then start WRTR or jump in after I figure it all out? We are only on Step 9 of AAS3. Maybe I should continue on with AAS until I'm certain that I'm going to make the switch. I may get the books and decide otherwise! Thanks to you all for your help....I'm sure I'll be in touch with more questions once they get here. I'll also be lurking the other WRTR threads....

:lurk5:

[Ellie]

I just ordered the 4th and 6th editions used from another Hive Member off Classifieds. I hope I'm making the right choice. Should I just continue with AAS 3 through the summer and then start WRTR or jump in after I figure it all out? We are only on Step 9 of AAS3. Maybe I should continue on with AAS until I'm certain that I'm going to make the switch. I may get the books and decide otherwise! Thanks to you all for your help....I'm sure I'll be in touch with more questions once they get here. I'll also be lurking the other WRTR threads....

:lurk5:

 

IDK. As far as starting Spalding, it won't make a difference (although there may be more for him to unlearn), but I can see why you'd want to continue until you know for sure if you're making the switch to Spalding.

[Murrayshire]

Ellie, I think I read in another post that you prefer the 4th edition over the 5th and 6th. Are there updated words in the 6th edition compared to the 4th edition? What makes the 4th edition stand out so? Thanks again....I don't know what I'd do without you all. I love the Hive!

[LoveBaby]

I'm not an expert like Ellie by any means, but the 4th edition has a lot less "educationalese" making it much more succinct and easy to use, IMO.

[Ellie]

Ellie, I think I read in another post that you prefer the 4th edition over the 5th and 6th. Are there updated words in the 6th edition compared to the 4th edition? What makes the 4th edition stand out so? Thanks again....I don't know what I'd do without you all. I love the Hive!

 

I only "prefer" the 4th edition because I've been using it for upwards of 20 years. :-)

[UrbanSue]

Ellie is going to make you read the entire manual no matter which one you have ;) So just for that reason the MUCH shorter 4th is a better bet! All the same information is there in both books but I find the 4th just much simpler. I actually sold my 6th edition once I had Spalding down and teach from the 4th.

[Ellie]

Ellie is going to make you read the entire manual no matter which one you have ;) So just for that reason the MUCH shorter 4th is a better bet!

 

 

:smilielol5:

[SFM]

 

Switching to Spalding *might* involve a little backtracking, but only for a short time. I think the Spalding method (remember: Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual) does help connect everything.

 

 

Yes, we were using AAS (we went through 1-half 3) and we started using the WRTR in January and it was some backtracking. However, I think the backtracking was worth it. I learned things that I thought my son knew and really didn't know. Like misspelling things because he didn't know 'a' had 3 sounds and the like. He went from a Spelling "test" in January at a 1.2 grade level (he is in 3rd) to a 4.1 in May. :) In 4 MONTHS, I was sold. Also, I was tired of having Handwriting, Phonics, and Spelling separately, I much prefer the streamlined WRTR. I plan to implement it with my daughter starting next week.

 

That being said, I started with the 5th edition because it was what my library had at the time. I ordered the 6th edition and then ordered the 4th. I started re-reading the 4th last night, WOW. I feel so much more confident having read the 4th edition. I plan to use it from here on out. It is concise and free from some superfluous information, in my opinion. I felt as if the author were sitting beside me talking me through the process.

 

I have full confidence in the program and intend to use it exclusively for all of my children for handwriting, phonics, and spelling. I am thrilled I found out about it and thankful for Ellie's wisdom, encouragement, and advice. I thought my son would never build confidence or that he would always just be a poor speller and while he may have some "dyslexic" tendencies certainly the look say methods were just adding to the confusion. We brought him home in 2nd grade and while it took some time to re-train, I am thrilled with his confidence level and his abilities are far superior to what they were even months ago.

 

I encourage you to get it, read it, highlight, make note, email Ellie. Rinse and repeat. :) I am finding, however, that it is easier than we think, we over complicate the process.

 

I might just be rambling now. I just finished reading Why Johnny Still Can't Read by Rudolf Flesch again and it just cements the need for explicit phonics instruction for children. I get a little excited about it all.

[Murrayshire]

Thank you for that SFM!