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Senior class trip participants booted off flight


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A second chaperone, Rabbi Joseph Beyda, said that none of the students were too unruly. He claims that he offered to help a flight attendant to address the situation, but she refused. "They just simply said 'get off the plane,'" Beyda told CNN

 

 

A second individual, Michael Mamiye, claims that he wasn’t offered a chance to turn off his phone before he was kicked off of the flight.

 

Good grief. If the passengers had done what they were supposed to do in the first place, this would never have happened. Southwest flight attendants are the most laid back in the industry.

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Good for Southwest! I wish more people would get kicked off flights for not obeying the rules. It drives me nuts when the flight attendants have to tell some people multiple times to turn off their electronics or sit down. The other passengers shouldn't be late because a few people don't want to follow the rules. Flying isn't a right. You agree to follow the rules and you get to fly; if you don't follow the rules, you don't get to fly.

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"It blew out of proportion. It was a mountain out of a molehill," Yeshivah of Flatbush teacher Marian Wielgus, one of the eight chaperones, told CNN. Wielgus added that, while some students had to be asked more than once to turn off their phones or sit down, they all complied eventually.

 

 

What is it like teaching these students? They all complied eventually!?!?!

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"A second individual, Michael Mamiye, claims that he wasn’t offered a chance to turn off his phone before he was kicked off of the flight."

 

Really?!?! Press power button. Hold for a few seconds. Device off. How the he!! could someone not have a "chance" to turn it off?

 

So are the parents going to kick teen butt or try and kick airline butt?

 

And why didn't the chaperones just collect the phones/devices? I'm sure they knew some of the group had problems listening prior to the flight.

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>>while some students had to be asked more than once to turn off their phones or sit down, they all complied eventually.

 

And while they were taking their sweet time about it, the plane couldn't be cleared for take-off, so it no doubt missed its spot in the line of planes taking off, thus delaying everyone else. And they didn't want to risk it happening again, so they kicked them off.

I agree with PP's - It's pretty hard to tick off a Southwest flight attendant.

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"They complied eventually" Sheesh, I guess the students now see how that rule applies in real life. Hopefully, some of them will find this the most valuable lesson from the trip. In a group that large, those dynamics should have been addressed well before they got on the plan. 1. sit down and put on your seatbelt, 2. turn off your phone. 3. obey the attendants. 3 rules, is it really that hard?

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My only complaint is that they found alternative flights for all of them. I think that if you get kicked off a flight for unruly behavior or failure to comply with directions you should simply be out of luck.

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I would love to hear from some other passengers who were not part of the group.

 

This is from a CNN article

"But business passenger Brad Rinschler, who takes the commuter flight three times a month, said he saw "definitely less than eight" chaperones with the students. He saw only two adults walk off the plane with the kids. And the chaperones sat in the front of the plane, while the noisy students sat in the back. Rinschler sat in business class, he said.

He said about 10 of the more than 100 students didn't listen to the flight crew's instructions and were noisy, swapping seats to sit beside friends and using their cell phones.

"They were laughing at them and ignoring them," Rinschler said of the 10 students.

The crew gave the students "multiple chances" to heed preflight instructions.

"They pilot warned them. They did not comply. They thought it was a joke. You know, it wasn't a joke," Rinschler said.

"I've never seen this," he added. "It's a commuter flight. There's no families on it."

Rinschler didn't witness any anti-Semitic events. "Absolutely not," he said. "There was not one ethnic slur from anyone on the flight crew or anyone who was inconvenienced for two hours.

"If they were adults, they wouldn't have even had that many chances. That's the bottom line," Rinschler said."

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From the CNN article:

>Another student in the group, Michael Mamiye, said he was one of the first to be kicked off the plane. He said a flight attendant did not give him a chance to turn off his cell phone before asking him to "get off the plane."

 

The same flight attendant then told the captain that the students were "making trouble" and not turning off their phones, he added. The captain didn't come out of the cockpit until the last second when he asked the group to leave, Mamiye said.

According to Mamiye, he and his classmates were quiet and were sitting down as they were told. And when they were asked to leave, they left in a respectful and orderly fashion.

 

"We were more behaved than kids should be," he said.<

 

Seriously? "We were more behaved than kids should be"?

 

Someone better let that little darling in on the secret that by the time you reach your senior year of HS the rest of society expects you to be able to behave better than a "kid" while out and about.

 

I was sort of, oh stupid group think combined with excitement, on this one until I read that.

 

Really, if that behavior is you doing the rest of us a favor and being extra, extra good we will make sure to get you a lolly and a book on proper socialization.

 

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This line from one of the students kicked off makes me side with the airline: "'We were more behaved than kids should be," he said." And how much should kids misbehave on a plane? Sheesh.

 

It sounds like the chaperones may not really know the whole story if there were so few of them and if they were not sitting close by when the issue started. I know my kids can be very non-compliant and quiet at the same time.

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Sigh...

 

The last time I flew, there was a businessman across the aisle who did not turn off his phone after the attendant announcement. He was not being subtle. The guy's conversation was loud and I suspect heard by several rows of passengers. The businessman sitting next to me said he wished that he had special privileges not to comply with federal law.

 

I don't know how many of the "privileged" were on my commuter flight, but if each one of them requires a half minute or minute of the attendant's time, the time adds up. We can't blame airlines for flight delays if stupid passengers are to blame.

 

Good for the airline.

 

Curmudgeon Jane

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This:

 

When the students failed to comply with requests from the flight crew, including the captain, they were asked to leave the plane, delaying the AirTran flight for 45 minutes, said Southwest spokesman Brad Hawkins.

 

says they were given multiple chances. It wasn't a "turn off your cell, get in your seat" and 2 seconds later you are off the flight.

 

And the chaperones complaining to only put the disruptive students off the flight? Are you serious? How is that going to go over with the school?

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And I do think the school and parents bear some of the blame if they did not VERY EXPLICITLY spell out the expectations for behavior before, during, and after the flight.

 

Flying has changed a great deal in the past 10-12 years and the tolerance for "stuff" is much lower now. Unless this is a group of frequent flyers the adults in charge should have made it clear what the expectations were. The fact that the kids got on the plane using phones leads me to believe the chaperones were not really on the ball. And the quotes from the students lead me to believe there was at least a little entitlement mentality at play.

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Omheavens.

 

If my 17/18 year old was such an a$$ in a plane that the pilot came outand told him to get off, it'd be a dang good thing his bags were already packed when he got home because guess what? Mama doesn't take that crap at home either.

 

Wow.

 

Just wow.

 

My dh travels a LOT and says that's total BS. They must have been ridiculous if even the pilot came out. And it's also total BS that they needed to be told expectations before the trip. They aren't 7 year olds. They ARE told the expectations every step of the way by the airline and staff. And at 17/18, the expectation is that they are old enough to know how to sit down, shut up, and follow basic reasonable directives politely.

 

And they delayed that business commenter flight by 45 minutes. Given how he travels for business, dh is not even remotely sympathic to them.

 

And the airline helped them find other flights, but wisely not all on the same plane.

 

I doubt it was anti semitic. If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if they got so many chances and help with new flights bc the stewards and pilot knew they'd probably scream bigotry. Dh finds it hard to believe a less noticeably ethnic group would have been given 30 minutes to get their act together.

 

This:

 

says they were given multiple chances. It wasn't a "turn off your cell, get in your seat" and 2 seconds later you are off the flight.

 

And the chaperones complaining to only put the disruptive students off the flight? Are you serious? How is that going to go over with the school?

 

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And I do think the school and parents bear some of the blame if they did not VERY EXPLICITLY spell out the expectations for behavior before, during, and after the flight.

 

 

 

Really? They shouldn't be expected to simply follow the directions of those in charge?

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"It blew out of proportion. It was a mountain out of a molehill," Yeshivah of Flatbush teacher Marian Wielgus, one of the eight chaperones, told CNN. Wielgus added that, while some students had to be asked more than once to turn off their phones or sit down, they all complied eventually.

 

 

What is it like teaching these students? They all complied eventually!?!?!

 

 

I agree with you! "Eventually", the addition of that word to the comment by the teacher made my brain twitch.

 

Faith

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Really? They shouldn't be expected to simply follow the directions of those in charge?

 

Sure they should.

 

But if I have a group of students I've worked with and I know they can be slow to respond to directions I would make sure they knew that the expectations on the flight would be different than those at a pep rally in the gym.

 

If I was the parent of a student wo hadn't flown before I would make sure my son/daughter knew what the expected behavior was on a flight.

 

Either no one did that, and the kids walked in with a bit of entitlement mentality and got a nice life lesson or they were told and thier entitlement mentality is so great they didn't see it as applicable to them.

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Sure they should.

 

But if I have a group of students I've worked with and I know they can be slow to respond to directions I would make sure they knew that the expectations on the flight would be different than those at a pep rally in the gym.

 

If I was the parent of a student wo hadn't flown before I would make sure my son/daughter knew what the expected behavior was on a flight.

 

Either no one did that, and the kids walked in with a bit of entitlement mentality and got a nice life lesson or they were told and thier entitlement mentality is so great they didn't see it as applicable to them.

Exactly.

 

TSA would not have let them in the gate if they were uncooperative when being scanned.

 

I think the school is making a huge mistake pointing the finger at the airline when the kids were misbehaving while the chaperones turned a blind eye.

 

I have no sympathy.

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Sure they should.

 

But if I have a group of students I've worked with and I know they can be slow to respond to directions I would make sure they knew that the expectations on the flight would be different than those at a pep rally in the gym.

 

If I was the parent of a student wo hadn't flown before I would make sure my son/daughter knew what the expected behavior was on a flight.

 

Either no one did that, and the kids walked in with a bit of entitlement mentality and got a nice life lesson or they were told and thier entitlement mentality is so great they didn't see it as applicable to them.

 

 

I agree. Yes, they should know better, but even at that age, the whole mob mentality can take over. 109 on a plane? Isn't that a larger percentage of the plane itself, seems like a pretty big group and obviously it only take a few to break the rules to ruin it for the ones that weren't.

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I read about this a few days ago. I am on the side of the airline. I have flown a lot, my husband has flown probably four to five times as much as me since some years, all he is doing is flying off on tdys. Neither one of us have ever been in an airplane where the captain had to come back and reprimand passengers. If I was in charge of the school, I would not be arguing discrimination, I would be hanging my head in shame. LIkewise, if I was one of the parents.

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If 109 people were kicked off the flight, the plane would have been almost empty. I don't think this was a very cost-effective move for Southwest (not to mention the bad publicity, or the problem of having to find new flights for the group members).

 

 

To me, this fact stands as evidence of just how unruly those kids were. This was a significant move and certainly not undertaken lightly.

 

And yeah, SW flight attendants are about as laid back and fun loving as they come.

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According to Mamiye, he and his classmates were quiet and were sitting down as they were told.

 

 

the delays and kicking the group off the flight cost the airline money. if they were sitting down as told - they wouldn't have been kicked off the flight. no sympathy here - and about darn time they got a reality check. unfortunately it sounds like the leaders also have an entitlement attitude as they are claiming the little dears, are innocent little dears, and supporting the meme of "we got kicked off for being jewish". um, no.

I agree. Yes, they should know better, but even at that age, the whole mob mentality can take over. 109 on a plane? Isn't that a larger percentage of the plane itself, seems like a pretty big group and obviously it only take a few to break the rules to ruin it for the ones that weren't.

 

one report I read said there were 139 (or thereabouts) before the group was kicked off.
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"They treated us like we were terrorists; I've never seen anything like it. I'm not someone to make these kinds of statements," Zehavi said. "I think if it was a group of non-religious kids, the air stewardess wouldn't have dared to kick them off."

 

Wow. Someone needs to educate this young man about making obnoxious statements like this. They were most certainly not treated like terrorists. They were not hauled off in handcuffs for questioning. They were asked to leave a plane after obnoxious behavior and then *given another flight*.

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I read a comment from a pilot on another site. he reminded people interfering with (or not complying with) a flight crew is a federal offense. the rules are the rules and dictated by the FAA. they don't move the plane until the cabin is ready - and if the cabin isn't ready they stay at the gate tying up the gate and messing with more schedules than their own. another pilot commented on having let something like this slide - and then having to make an unscheduled landing to boot them off the plane. and this group has the gall to cry discrimination - people have been arrested for doing what they did.

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I never travelled on a plane before I was 16 and flew alone to NY and then with a group on to Israel. No one needed to tell me what to do or how to behave. I am after all literate and not a spoiled brat. So I can read the signs and listen to the directions. Duh.

 

There is no way an airline is going to cause this much inconvenience and cost for themselves, their other passengers and flights from that gate later that morning for no reason. I have no doubt the behavior must have been bad for this to happen.

 

It sort of cracks me up that they are claiming discrimination. On an El Al Israeli national airline flight, these sorts of shenanigans would get them drop kicked off the plane in flexi-cuffs. And then likely banned from El Al and their suit cases returned to them in shreds. El Al does not put up with anything on their flights.

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Those kids sound charmless and whiny and presumptuous and like generally awful people. The offense, acting like jerks on an airplane to the degree it gets you kicked off, is pretty bad in a "you are being doofuses" kind of way. But complaining about it afterwards is what really makes them seem like they were raised wrong.

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Senior class trip? Doesn't that mean at least half of these "kids" are adults. Jumping up and changing seats?

 

What's wrong with 1. get on the plane, 2. find your seat, 3. stow your carryon, 4. turn off your electronic devices and put them away, 5. wait patiently in your seat for take off.

 

My guess is the flight attendants weren't just concerned about take off. If the students took that long to calm down just for take off and there was no control what would happen during the flight.

 

I don't think they should have been offered another flight, but the group was split up and they probably missed some of their planned activities.

 

Spoiled brats.

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The kid who said it must be because they were obviously Jewish and so were "treated like terrorists" screams of spoiled brat (and they weren't treated like terrorists at all).

 

My husband has taken commuter flights in the past and *has* to get where he is going relatively on time. A 45 minute delay because kids won't listen can mean a meeting has to be rescheduled and a flight was taken for no reason.

 

To say that they all complied *eventually* says a lot about the teacher/chaperone. They are at fault for letting the kids be unruly.

 

The kid who said they were more behaved than kids should be needs a lesson in behavior. For one thing, these are 17 year olds who have just finished their senior year in high school. They are not exactly kids. They are pretty much adults and should behave and listen. We went to Ireland a couple months ago and I expected my children (13, 11, 6, and 4) to sit and behave. That was a long flight and on the way back they were awake because it was mid-day. Of course sometimes kids (and by kids, I mean children who are not near adulthood) get antsy or upset (especially on long flights), but if I saw a 6 year old acting up I would think "poor mom, poor kid." A 17 year old moving around and not listening to the stewardess makes me think "spoiled brat." Fact is, I expect 17 year olds on an airplane to behave as adults and sit and listen to the stewardesses and put away their cell phones.

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If there were onky 10 kids acting up, then 90 were not. I'll bet those 90 are pretty hoppin' mad at the 10. I used to get soooo angry at the little twerps in school who messed it up for the rest of us. Spoiled brats indeed.

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If there were onky 10 kids acting up, then 90 were not. I'll bet those 90 are pretty hoppin' mad at the 10. I used to get soooo angry at the little twerps in school who messed it up for the rest of us. Spoiled brats indeed.

 

One report I read said *everyone* was deplaned to get things under control. the captain gave the option of splitting the group with the behaving students allowed back on with adults. leaving the unruly ones behind with an adult. the rabbi in charge refused, he wanted all or none. whether he was bluffing or not is irrelevant because the captain called it and kicked them all off. the chaperones sound as bad as the bratty young adults as they are also claiming it was unfair they were kicked off.

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If 109 people were kicked off the flight, the plane would have been almost empty. I don't think this was a very cost-effective move for Southwest (not to mention the bad publicity, or the problem of having to find new flights for the group members).

 

 

Exactly -- this wasn't something the airline took lightly. It was a major inconvenience for them, so I'm inclined to believe they felt there was real need for it. They had to re-route luggage, and all that mess.

 

I still haven't read anything from anyone else who was on that flight ....

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Exactly -- this wasn't something the airline took lightly. It was a major inconvenience for them, so I'm inclined to believe they felt there was real need for it. They had to re-route luggage, and all that mess.

 

I still haven't read anything from anyone else who was on that flight ....

 

here's from someone who was on the plane, but not part of the group or airline employee.

business passenger Brad Rinschler, who takes the commuter flight three times a month, said he saw "definitely less than eight" chaperones with the students. He saw only two adults walk off the plane with the kids. And the chaperones sat in the front of the plane, while the noisy students sat in the back. Rinschler sat in business class, he said.

He said about 10 of the more than 100 students didn't listen to the flight crew's instructions and were noisy, swapping seats to sit beside friends and using their cell phones.

"They were laughing at them and ignoring them," Rinschler said of the 10 students.

The crew gave the students "multiple chances" to heed preflight instructions.

"The pilot warned them. They did not comply. They thought it was a joke. You know, it wasn't a joke," Rinschler said.

"I've never seen this," he added. "It's a commuter flight. There's no families on it."

Rinschler didn't witness any anti-Semitic events. "Absolutely not," he said. "There was not one ethnic slur from anyone on the flight crew or anyone who was inconvenienced for two hours.

"If they were adults, they wouldn't have even had that many chances. That's the bottom line," Rinschler said.

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I agree that the unruly students should have been kicked off but I feel badly for the rest of them. 101 students kicked off due to the actions of a handful doesn't seem right either. If I had paid the money for a trip for my kid, and some other kid got the entire group kicked off I would be ticked off. But I do agree the unruly ones should have been removed and had their parents come and claim them. Shame on them for acting like idiots, and shame on the chaperones for not correcting their behaviour instantly and instead letting this nonsense continue. If they were delayed for 45 minutes how did that one yahoo not have time to turn off his phone? it takes 10 seconds to power down.

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This is from a CNN article

"But business passenger Brad Rinschler, who takes the commuter flight three times a month, said he saw "definitely less than eight" chaperones with the students. He saw only two adults walk off the plane with the kids. And the chaperones sat in the front of the plane, while the noisy students sat in the back.

 

 

Thanks -- I was just going to post that I found the same article.

 

If the chaperones were all in the front, how could they possibly know what was going on? I was once in a hotel where an athletic team of some sort was staying. The adults were all gathered in one room for the evening, while the kids were being disruptive.

 

NOTE: I have also been around groups of kids who were very well behaved because the parents and/or chaperones had made it clear what was proper behavior.

 

The kid who made the comment about being better behaved than kids should be still gets me.

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I agree that the unruly students should have been kicked off but I feel badly for the rest of them. 101 students kicked off due to the actions of a handful doesn't seem right either. If I had paid the money for a trip for my kid, and some other kid got the entire group kicked off I would be ticked off. But I do agree the unruly ones should have been removed and had their parents come and claim them. Shame on them for acting like idiots, and shame on the chaperones for not correcting their behaviour instantly and instead letting this nonsense continue. If they were delayed for 45 minutes how did that one yahoo not have time to turn off his phone? it takes 10 seconds to power down.

 

 

Whatever happened to peer pressure? The "good" kids should have been telling the others to knock it off, or talking to the chaperones about it.

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One of the students has a theory:

http://www.bholworld.com/Article_EN.aspx?id=55315&cat=18

 

Jonathan Zahavi, one of the students, said: "This was an early morning flight. It was four in the morning. We were all excited about the trip, no one wild and intended to violate instructions. I have flown different airlines many times, and I saw how non-Jewish youngsters act on planes, in contrast we were just fine, steward found hostility has soon as he saw us, with yarmulkes and tzitizis, his hatred was clear, they turned a mouse into an elephant, it always happens that children do not close the cell phone as soon as they are told, and have to tell them again, but in our case it was clear, it was a hatred of Jews.

 

"When they told us to get off the plane, there was no arguing, new didn’t act like the American youth acts, we acted in perfect order and dignity," said Zahavi.

 

-----------

 

I don't think any insights about behavior were gained there.

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The kid who said it must be because they were obviously Jewish and so were "treated like terrorists" screams of spoiled brat (and they weren't treated like terrorists at all).

 

My husband has taken commuter flights in the past and *has* to get where he is going relatively on time. A 45 minute delay because kids won't listen can mean a meeting has to be rescheduled and a flight was taken for no reason.

 

To say that they all complied *eventually* says a lot about the teacher/chaperone. They are at fault for letting the kids be unruly.

 

The kid who said they were more behaved than kids should be needs a lesson in behavior. For one thing, these are 17 year olds who have just finished their senior year in high school. They are not exactly kids. They are pretty much adults and should behave and listen. We went to Ireland a couple months ago and I expected my children (13, 11, 6, and 4) to sit and behave. That was a long flight and on the way back they were awake because it was mid-day. Of course sometimes kids (and by kids, I mean children who are not near adulthood) get antsy or upset (especially on long flights), but if I saw a 6 year old acting up I would think "poor mom, poor kid." A 17 year old moving around and not listening to the stewardess makes me think "spoiled brat." Fact is, I expect 17 year olds on an airplane to behave as adults and sit and listen to the stewardesses and put away their cell phones.

 

 

I just flew with a 5yo and 2 2yos. My 2yos might have behaved like that unsupervised, but my 5yo knows better. Granted she has flown before, but still... "Eventually complied"? At 17-18? Not acceptable. It sounds like the airline was very tolerant.

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One of the students has a theory:

http://www.bholworld...id=55315&cat=18

 

Jonathan Zahavi, one of the students, said: "This was an early morning flight. It was four in the morning. We were all excited about the trip, no one wild and intended to violate instructions. I have flown different airlines many times, and I saw how non-Jewish youngsters act on planes, in contrast we were just fine, steward found hostility has soon as he saw us, with yarmulkes and tzitizis, his hatred was clear, they turned a mouse into an elephant, it always happens that children do not close the cell phone as soon as they are told, and have to tell them again, but in our case it was clear, it was a hatred of Jews.

 

"When they told us to get off the plane, there was no arguing, new didn’t act like the American youth acts, we acted in perfect order and dignity," said Zahavi.

 

-----------

 

I don't think any insights about behavior were gained there.

 

 

Give me a break. Honestly I get so sick and tired of people playing the race or religion card. Stop being a schmuck and you won't be kicked off a plane. If you are a senior in high school you were mere weeks away from college and the workforce, to being an adult. You aren't children anymore at that point. 10 year old excited and needing reminding sure. 17 & 18 year olds? grow up and act like the adults you should be at this point.

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I agree that the unruly students should have been kicked off but I feel badly for the rest of them. 101 students kicked off due to the actions of a handful doesn't seem right either. If I had paid the money for a trip for my kid, and some other kid got the entire group kicked off I would be ticked off. But I do agree the unruly ones should have been removed and had their parents come and claim them. Shame on them for acting like idiots, and shame on the chaperones for not correcting their behaviour instantly and instead letting this nonsense continue. If they were delayed for 45 minutes how did that one yahoo not have time to turn off his phone? it takes 10 seconds to power down.

 

this goes back to the chaperones. according to a comment posted to the article, there is another who claims to have been on the flight. that person stated the rabbi in charge was given the option of only the 10 disruptive students being kicked off and the rest proceeding to their destination. the rabbi wanted everyone on the flight - so no one went. also according to the report, a flight attendent felt threatened by two students.

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I doubt SW would want to be known as having 'a hatred of Jews'. The SW crew had to know there could be possible backlash, so I am thinking the students' behavior must have quite awful.

 

Sometimes young people (I guess anyone) in groups can be *dumb*, and it doesn't matter race, religion, eye color.

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One of the students has a theory:

http://www.bholworld.com/Article_EN.aspx?id=55315&cat=18

 

Jonathan Zahavi, one of the students, said: "This was an early morning flight. It was four in the morning. We were all excited about the trip, no one wild and intended to violate instructions. I have flown different airlines many times, and I saw how non-Jewish youngsters act on planes, in contrast we were just fine, steward found hostility has soon as he saw us, with yarmulkes and tzitizis, his hatred was clear, they turned a mouse into an elephant, it always happens that children do not close the cell phone as soon as they are told, and have to tell them again, but in our case it was clear, it was a hatred of Jews.

 

"When they told us to get off the plane, there was no arguing, new didn’t act like the American youth acts, we acted in perfect order and dignity," said Zahavi.

 

-----------

 

I don't think any insights about behavior were gained there.

 

 

More obnoxiousness from the kid I quoted above.

 

What's the deal with that article? It reads like it was run through an auto-translator? (Not snarky, genuinely curious)

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