Gardasil -- vaccinate or not?

[Guest gardasilinjured]

"All vaccines have risk" do you know what that means? I didn’t. I had no idea really how a vaccine could cause an injury. I did not realize that vaccines can cause autoimmune diseases or neurological diseases. I assumed that if you were allergic to something in a vaccine you could have a reaction and even die, but until my daughter was injured by Gardasil, I had no idea that you can walk away from a vaccine just fine, and then in weeks watch your daughter start getting sick from a delayed reaction. Molecular mimicry takes time, and your immune system can be triggered to attack you. :crying:

The CDC maintains this is very rare. Every time a person is injured by a vaccine the doctors are trained to discount that the injury has anything to do with the vaccine. They do everything they can to find something else to blame it on. When they can’t, they call it "insidious" meaning they don’t know why it happened. They can neither confirm nor deny the vaccine caused the illness. In this way, the government can continue to say vaccine injuries are "very rare". :glare:

All my children are fully vaccinated. I am a Registered nurse and have been in health care 20 years. I have been vaccinated for everything. I have believed in vaccines my whole life. The Gardasil vaccine injured my child. We are one of the 100 families pending in vaccine court right now because we cannot sue the doctors and we can’t sue the pharmaceutical company as the government protects them. I never knew this existed. :confused1:

I had my daughter vaccinated with the Gardasil vaccine because I have taken care of people with end stage cervical cancer until they died. My close friend died this year at 36 yrs. old from cervical cancer leaving behind 3 young boys. This vaccine is not the answer to cervical cancer. The antibodies do not last long enough to make any difference in preventing cervical cancer. Please do not assume, as I did, that if you get this vaccine you will not get cervical cancer. 62 reports have been made to VAERS because people have received this vaccine and then developed cervical cancer. :huh:

The "horror stories" are real. There are people in the population who cannot tolerate this vaccine. No one has any clue who is susceptible to vaccine injury and who is not. You won’t know until it happens to you. The government will not protect you if you are injured. You will have a fight on your hands. At least people with cancer are well supported by the medical community. I have learned vaccine injured people are NOT. Very unfortunate. :cursing:

Are there any other ways to lower your risk of HPV and cervical cancer besides the Gardasil shot? YES! :hurray:

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[BigMamaBird]

Our children are up to date on their shots and they will not be getting this one.

[celticmom]

My dd will definitely not be getting this vax as long as it is my decision and I will thoroughly explain my reasons to her so hopefully she will not consent to it when she is older.

[mamajudy]

Are there similar cases of boys having adverse affects from the vaccine? Everything I've seen so far is referring to girls. I assume that there would be similar risks involved with boys. I ask because DS is going to the Naval Academy this month and unless he refuses the vaccine, they will start the Gardasil shots the day he reports. I have advised him to refuse.

[Guest gardasilinjured]

Yes. Boys have had similar reactions, although I do not know of any who have gone public yet, however if you look up the VAERS reports you will find that boys have also reported adverse events. I am in contact with one young man who experienced severe nerve pain which has not gone away but has gotten better over time. Male deaths have also been reported to VAERS.

[Embassy]

No Gardasil planned here. My daugher can choose to get it as an adult if she wishes.

[wonderchica]

 

 

For white girls from intact families, the majority will still be virgins at 18 according to statistics.

 

 

Link or citation for this?

[Crimson Wife]

The link is here, and it's a legitimate medical journal, not some quack site. Here is a quote (emphasis mine):

 

One of the most important outcomes is that the maximum reported duration of efficacy is 5 years. Cervical cancer prevention is not possible without demonstration of efficacy of at least 15 years. Therefore, a clinical balance must be struck: Gardasil must be administered to cover the five riskiest years for high risk HPV acquisition as five years is the known duration of protection, but if administered too early before sexual activity, there is a risk of vaccine waning with no long term protection; and if administered too late, after exposure, there is no efficacy for prevention of recurrent/repeat same type HPV infections.

[stripe]

For white girls from intact families, the majority will still be virgins at 18 according to statistics. So it makes much more sense IMHO to wait until a girl is an older teen so that the vaccine won't wear off before she even needs protection from HPV.

 

Here's a shocker: not all of us have children who fit this description.

 

(I think people would like a citation about white girls from "intact" families, not only about the length of efficacy of vaccine.)

[stripe]

I have looked up the Guttmacher Institute's statistics on teen sex

and their source on age of intercourse is

http://www.guttmache...FB-ATSRH.html#1

Abma JC et al., Teenagers in the United States: sexual activity, contraceptive use, and childbearing, National Survey of Family Growth 2006–2008, Vital and Health Statistics, 2010, Series 23, No. 30.

http://www.cdc.gov/n...23/sr23_031.pdf

 

From what I can see, esp in Table 1, it shows the following:

* between hispanic, non-hispanic white, and non-hispanic black girls between the ages of 15 and 19, the rates of sexual intercourse are pretty close (~42%)

* many more of those who are 18 or 19 have had sex (~63%) versus 15-17 year olds (~28%)

* mothers' age at the girls' births (under or over 20) tends to be correlated with the girls' behavior (52 vs 38)

* mothers' education is somewhat associated with the girls' behavior, but not a giant difference (~50% of girls with mothers with no HS diploma have had sex vs. ~40% of girls with mothers with HS degree or college)

* ~35% of girls whose family includes both biological/adoptive parents at age 14 have had sex versus ~54% of girls without this family structure

 

In no place in this article does it bring together the statistics for white girls with the statistics for girls with "intact" families. In fact, the statistics on black (46.4%) and hispanic girls (42.1%) are really not that different from white girls (41.9%).

 

One thing that is different can be found on table 9: more white girls said they "really wanted" their first sexual experience, a close number of hispanic girls, and far fewer black girls. More black girls reported mixed feelings, as well. Among those who really did NOT want it, there are far fewer white girls, and more black and hispanic girls. And far more black girls avoided sex because they don't want an STD than the other groups (table 15).

[Orthodox6]

My dd will definitely not be getting this vax as long as it is my decision and I will thoroughly explain my reasons to her so hopefully she will not consent to it when she is older.

 

My dd is fourteen. We discussed the vaccine and the parental decision to "say no" a couple of years ago with her.

[msjones]

We'll be waiting until the boys are older. I just don't see the hurry.

[TravelingChris]

I didn't with my older one. SHe has inherited Factor V Leiden, which makes her more likely to get blood clots. This particular vaccine, unlike others we have had, has a risk of blood clot. She doesn't take anything that will increase that risk as I don't either. DD 2 hasn't gotten one yet and can decide later if she wants it. With this limited lifespan, I don't see why they are pushing it on such young kids.

[readinmom]

Never, as long as I have a say in it. Too many negatives versus positives. My nephew was a beautiful, healthy baby until after a round of vaccinations. He has since been diagnosed with autism. I know that some might disagree but what if something similar happens to to some of these girls later in life? Will the benefits still outweigh the risk?

[QueenCat]

Never, as long as I have a say in it. Too many negatives versus positives. My nephew was a beautiful, healthy baby until after a round of vaccinations. He has since been diagnosed with autism. I know that some might disagree but what if something similar happens to to some of these girls later in life? Will the benefits still outweigh the risk?

 

Unfortunately, the first signs of autism don't normally show up until about the same time as many vaccinations are given. Scientific research, from reliable sources, has indicated they are not related (yes, there have been reports saying they are but they've been proven wrong). If it were the vaccinations, my child with autism would not have autism, and my child without autism would have autism. Plenty of kids who weren't vaccinated have autism and were seemingly healthy for a couple of years prior to the first signs of autism showing up. It is natural for people to want to blame something, and vaccinations are easy to blame, especially when you get celebrities behind the idea.

[DawnM]

My boys are not getting it even though the doctor did ask if I wanted it at their last physical a couple of weeks ago. They will not be getting it.

[QueenCat]

This is such a personal decision. People need to talk to their doctors, evaluate the info and decide. Just make sure you are using reliable information and not fear mongering, biased, unscientific materials to make your decision.

[Word Nerd]

This is such a personal decision. People need to talk to their doctors, evaluate the info and decide. Just make sure you are using reliable information and not fear mongering, biased, unscientific materials to make your decision.

 

It's also worth noting that there is plenty of fear mongering to be found on both sides of the debate.

[QueenCat]

It's also worth noting that there is plenty of fear mongering to be found on both sides of the debate.

 

True, I didn't indicate there wasn't. Unfortunately, fear mongering is common on many issues in our country.

[Harriet Vane]

Unfortunately, the first signs of autism don't normally show up until about the same time as many vaccinations are given. Scientific research, from reliable sources, has indicated they are not related (yes, there have been reports saying they are but they've been proven wrong). If it were the vaccinations, my child with autism would not have autism, and my child without autism would have autism. Plenty of kids who weren't vaccinated have autism and were seemingly healthy for a couple of years prior to the first signs of autism showing up. It is natural for people to want to blame something, and vaccinations are easy to blame, especially when you get celebrities behind the idea.

 

 

This really doesn't tell the whole story.

 

A close friend of mine has a child who had a vaccine reaction. The day he got a vaccine, within just a few hours, he started screaming and rocking. It went on for hours, and he was in obvious pain, screaming. The initial episode died down eventually, but from that episode he progressed into the typical, full-blown autism behaviors (rocking some, but mostly staring and unresponsive). It was a dramatic difference--he became an entirely different child from that day onward, There really is no question that this happened as a result of the vaccine.

 

This is not some horror story I read somewhere. This is my friend, who I have known many years. I have known her son from age 10 or 11 on. He was in my Sunday School class, and his younger brother played with my ds many, many times over the years. I don't know which vaccine--my friend told me, but I do not remember, and this young man is 19yo now.

 

I can easily accept that vaccines do not cause all autism, and I can accept that for some people, vaccines have no bearing on the development of autism. BUT for some people there is a link, and we do not know why. Some children have reacted in this way, and we do not know why. It's not right or fair to dismiss the experiences that these families have lived with this nightmare.

 

I see it as similar to my anemia diagnosis. I was tested for anemia multiple times over a couple years and told repeatedly that I was not anemic, and that my symptoms were due to "something else." As it turns out, that doctor tested only my hemoglobin, which at the time was low but in the normal range. After several years, another doctor ran a new battery of tests, and as a part of that he did more of a full iron panel that included not only hemoglobin but also ferritin. Lo and behold, I had almost zero ferritin stores. My ferritin number was terribly, terribly low. I had been anemic for years, but we had not measured the iron in my body accurately because we checked only hemoglobin. The problem was not that I was not sick, or not anemic, but rather that the diagnostic tools did not measure the full picture.

 

In the same way, it is apparent that some children have had terrible vaccine reactions, but we do not know why. Is it something specific to that child's chemistry? Is it specific to the vaccines? We don't know, and we may not yet know how to assess it accurately.

[OhanaBee]

I don't have a problem with vaccinations, but this was one I declined for all my girls. One of their childhood friends had a very very bad reaction to it and that, combined with the fact that it's so dang new and they don't know what the long term effects may be, was enough to put me off. My girls, once they turned 18, have made the decision for themselves to also decline the vax.

[Butter]

Our kids have been on a delayed schedule getting vaxed. We've been working on getting them caught up. Yesterday we went to a new ped (since we just moved). The practice is VERY pro-vax. In fact, if you choose not to vax they will not see you. They say it is absolutely the parents' right to choose to vax or not, but it is also their right not to see people who don't vax. I agree with this (they are still fine, btw, not vaxing my youngest for chicken pox - the rest have had the disease - because I am known to be not immune after having CP three times - the last time caught from a kid who was recently vaxed - and since it is a live virus vaccine I would almost definitely get CP if he had the vax - so they aren't so pro-vax that they don't take individual situations into account). Anyway, I have an 11 year old son. According to the CDC recs, he should get Gardisil. The ped did not even mention it. She didn't offer it, didn't say a single word about it. I'm honestly not sure whether I'd allow it. I don't think so, however, even though about half of all high schoolers graduate still virgins, many teens think oral sex is not a sex act. Obviously throat cancer can be caused by HPV through oral sex. Since Gardisil appears to cause problems rather than prevent if HPV has already been contracted (and so why they want the vaccine before sexual contact), awiting until they are 18 could be problematic as they could still be a virgin but have contracted HPV through oral sex. They could honestly say they are a virgin, but still have had sexual contact. I'm honestly not sure on this one, but the ped made it easy by not even mentioning it.

[QueenCat]

This really doesn't tell the whole story.

 

A close friend of mine has a child who had a vaccine reaction. The day he got a vaccine, within just a few hours, he started screaming and rocking. It went on for hours, and he was in obvious pain, screaming. The initial episode died down eventually, but from that episode he progressed into the typical, full-blown autism behaviors (rocking some, but mostly staring and unresponsive). It was a dramatic difference--he became an entirely different child from that day onward, There really is no question that this happened as a result of the vaccine.

 

This is not some horror story I read somewhere. This is my friend, who I have known many years. I have known her son from age 10 or 11 on. He was in my Sunday School class, and his younger brother played with my ds many, many times over the years. I don't know which vaccine--my friend told me, but I do not remember, and this young man is 19yo now.

 

I can easily accept that vaccines do not cause all autism, and I can accept that for some people, vaccines have no bearing on the development of autism. BUT for some people there is a link, and we do not know why. Some children have reacted in this way, and we do not know why. It's not right or fair to dismiss the experiences that these families have lived with this nightmare.

 

 

I don't dismiss them on the micro level; I do on the macro level. Having a child with autism, and having surrounded myself at times with other parents of children with autism, as well as training parents at the state level, I've seen many experiences. Only one, which was similar to your friend, could truly show the correlation and causation. Unfortunately, the few truly documented cases have made many think that there is far more out there than there really is, in relation to connections between autism and vaccines. So many people don't get the fact that the timing of when autism typically starts showing it's signs and when we vaccinate are the same; correlation does not always mean causation. I do think that there are genetic predispositions, as do the many doctors we've worked with.

[Wheres Toto]

I answered all the other Gardasil threads so I might as well jump in on this one.

 

We fully vaccinate, on the recommended schedule, except flu shots and Gardasil. My oldest hasn't gotten it and will not get it. I don't think getting it encourages sexual activity and I don't think not getting it will decrease sexual activity. I just feel like it's too new, too rushed to market, and there are concerns about some strange possibly long-term side effects. Dh is a generic pharmaceutical chemist and we don't avoid medications and are generally pro-vax.

 

As for my younger two, there's a lot of years between now and when it would be recommended for them. If it hasn't been pulled off the market by then, I may revisit the available information and decide differently.

[catz]

We fully vax on schedule and do get the flu shot most years, but will be holding off on this one for a while yet. I need to get my 12 year old in this summer for his other boosters.

[Trish]

This is such a personal decision. People need to talk to their doctors, evaluate the info and decide. Just make sure you are using reliable information and not fear mongering, biased, unscientific materials to make your decision.

 

Or fear-mongering doctors who get their info from unethical pharmaceutical companies. I wouldn't want my kids to be the guinea pigs for this particular vaccine.

[QueenCat]

Or fear-mongering doctors who get their info from unethical pharmaceutical companies. I wouldn't want my kids to be the guinea pigs for this particular vaccine.

 

I have yet to meet a fear mongering doctor. I've only heard about them here, on this board. Glad most people I know go to doctors who care about them and don't tend to instill fear in them. My post was actually suggesting that people need to do the research from reliable resources yet twice now people seem to think I'm suggesting that one side is right and the other is wrong. Not at all. If you're using reliable resources, which exist, than great... if not, well then............

[regentrude]

We are pro vaccine and my children have received all recommended vaccinations - but not Gardasil!

I am very suspicious of the huge advertisement campaign by the manufacturer that pushed such a new vaccine so quickly.

I am concerned about the reports of severe neurological side effects, and several deaths, in otherwise healthy girls. At least one death has been examined thoroughly and directly linked to the vaccine (I looked up the original paper when I responded to a similar question a few months back but do not have time to go dig for it again.)

I will wait until the vaccine has been studied more thoroughly and long term.

[regentrude]

Cervical cancer is just so hard to catch. It is often discovered in advanced stages. That is what I worry about. And no, it doesn't prevent every type of cervical cancer, but some protection from cancer is better than none.

 

Is that the case? I was under the impression that regular pap smears are excellent for early detection of often still precancerous changes - is that not so?

[Word Nerd]

 

 

I have yet to meet a fear mongering doctor. I've only heard about them here, on this board. Glad most people I know go to doctors who care about them and don't tend to instill fear in them. My post was actually suggesting that people need to do the research from reliable resources yet twice now people seem to think I'm suggesting that one side is right and the other is wrong. Not at all. If you're using reliable resources, which exist, than great... if not, well then............

 

I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said. I was just reiterating that point, as earlier in the thread PPs suggested that those who opted not to get the vaccine (or not to get it now) were basing that decision on fear. I should have just said that and not quoted your post. I didn't know it would upset you to do so.

[QueenCat]

I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said. I was just reiterating that point, as earlier in the thread PPs suggested that those who opted not to get the vaccine (or not to get it now) were basing that decision on fear. I should have just said that and not quoted your post. I didn't know it would upset you to do so.

 

Thanks.... just felt a little defensive as I thought I was taking the middle ground yet it appeared that perhaps that wasn't coming through.

[phathui5]

 

Is that the case? I was under the impression that regular pap smears are excellent for early detection of often still precancerous changes - is that not so?

 

Paps can catch changes in very early stages, sometimes before it would even make sense to treat it (you would come in more often for follow-up). And no one has died from their Pap.

[Alessandra]

We are pro vaccine and my children have received all recommended vaccinations - but not Gardasil!

I am very suspicious of the huge advertisement campaign by the manufacturer that pushed such a new vaccine so quickly.

I am concerned about the reports of severe neurological side effects, and several deaths, in otherwise healthy girls. At least one death has been examined thoroughly and directly linked to the vaccine (I looked up the original paper when I responded to a similar question a few months back but do not have time to go dig for it again.)

I will wait until the vaccine has been studied more thoroughly and long term.

 

:iagree:

 

This is a viewpoint I share, and I am amazed -- and heartened -- that so many posters feel exactly this way. I could have quoted so many posts. Regentrude's just happened to be conveniently located towards the end of the thread.

 

We have always vaccinated on schedule. The first thing about Gardasil that disturbed me was not medical, but political -- when all 6th grade girls in Texas had to be vaccinated, when all female green card applicants of a certain age group had to have the vaccine.... Both these policies have ceased, but they left me with a very nasty feeling about Gardasil. Then the medical point of view -- side effects, short time of protection, etc.

 

Today was dd's turn for a check up. When the doctor asked if I'd had a chance to think about it, I said that I had and said, 'not this year.' The ped just nodded and did not pursue it at all.

 

I looked at our pediatrics website. In early childhood, immunizations are 'given' or 'completed.' Flu vaccine is 'recommended.' For pre-teens, HPV vaccine is 'discussed.' Interesting choice of words.