CAT Test from Christian Liberty

[naturally]

DH wants me to test DS1. DS is 9, finishing 3rd grade. However, he is working at a mid-3rd grade level in his lessons. Just starting to memorize multiplication tables, only basic grammar intro, etc. I don't know what grade CAT to get - 3rd because that's where he's working or 4th because that's the "next grade".

We have been "behind" in all lessons, getting into a rhythm, life keeps coming up and so on. DH keeps threatening sending DS to school and I know it's the worst thing to do. DH wants me to prove (by test) that DS isn't too far behind. This is more his hang-up than mine. I know we will eventually get where we need to be.

So what do I need to order?

[readinmom]

Speaking as a ps teacher, your dh threatening is only going to make the situation worse. Kids don't test well under stressful situations. Have dh march into the local ps and ask if every 3rd grader is testing at 3rd grade level. It's not possible, trust me. Tests are made to determine areas of growth and areas of weakness. They are not a punishment or tool for threats.

 

If you contact Seton Home Study, they have the tests availalbe and e-mail you the results. I think it was about a week turnaround time.

 

Good luck!

[ocelotmom]

If you think he's mid-3rd grade level now, then I'd say a 3rd grade test would give you a very good indication of whether your feelings are accurate. Kids generally take their grade-level tests towards the end of the year. Maybe April-ish instead of June, but not so early that a 4th grade test would be appropriate now.

[tampamommy]

If you read Christian Liberty's CAT test ordering instructions and/or talk to someone there, they explain that their testing system/comparisons are designed so that you test your child at the grade level your child will be entering the next school year (not the one they just completed).

 

They make percentile comparisons that way, as opposed to grade levels just completed. This is what I have done and it's worked out just fine.

 

Of course, you can choose whichever approach you find more appropriate. Just be aware that if you have your child test at the grade level they just completed, they are actually being compared to children who are entering that grade. So your child has an extra year of education under their belt compared to their peers' percentile performance.

 

Hope that explanation makes sense.

 

Bottom line is you do what you think makes most sense and best meets your goals.

[3monkeys]

They offer the online version that I've used and been very pleased with. You get immediate results emailed to you. I did as suggested and used grade above. Just know, it starts out easy and gets harder. They are not expected to know everything on test. So if he runs out of time before completing, don't panic as I did!

 

With that said, don't be afraid to go a grade above. It really is setup regardless of grade to find out exactly where they are.

[Candid]

Given a husband who wants to you to prove yourself, I'd be inclined to select a test back so put a third grader in the second grade test. No way would I put a third grader in the next year's test. I have spent years as my group's CAT coordinator and the way CAT is meant to be given by the publisher is at the end of the school year not at the beginning. While you if you uniformly use a test at a certain time of the year, it will be fine and accurate, if I was using it for the first time in this situation I would use it more in keeping with the publisher and use the lower level test or the same level test.

 

And I'd want to learn more if as other posters have noted Christian Liberty does their own scoring. I'd want to know more about their system. While it might be normally helpful having someone who wants you to prove your education reading their assessment might not be best. I don't know.

 

The CAT test was normed in 1990, so I'd also lean towards so selecting a more recently normed test. The Terra Nova has replaced the CAT and is more recently normed. Since both knowledge and trends in education change over time, your children should compare better in more recently normed tests.

[naturally]

Candid,

Thank you. I believe CLP uses CAT 1970 edition. Here is part of one reason they use this version - "We still use the older version of this nationally normed achievement test because the newer editions reflect a lower academic standard."

 

We have never tested. We have the option of assessments and that's what I prefer (and will still do for this year to send to the school) but DH wants this test.

 

So what are you recommending? I'm confused on all of this. I want to be able to test him here at home so I need something that allows me to do that.

 

Thank you all for your help. While I actually don't mind testing to see where our gaps are, the threat hanging over my head makes me nervous.

[PeterPan]

Just be aware that if you have your child test at the grade level they just completed, they are actually being compared to children who are entering that grade. So your child has an extra year of education under their belt compared to their peers' percentile performance.

 

 

This is not accurate. The test will score based on when in the year you did it. I can dig out my stuff. I think some tests norm by month (grade 3.2, etc.) and some by quarter. Nevertheless, what was above is not the case. And yes, you should test him at the grade he's finishing, which is 3rd. If you were to test him in the FALL, say in October, you would test him with a grade 4 test (unless you retained him, in which case use the gr 3), and he'd be normed against the scores kids get doing that test at that time of year. There's no severe bias by time of year.

 

I think when you get the test you're going to relax. Whatever you do, relax. In our state, as long as he's above the 25th percentile he's fine. I think it's reasonable for your husband to be concerned, and testing is a great way to address that. You should also discuss AHEAD of time what you hope to see and a reasonable course of action if you DON'T see what you hope to see. That way there's less anxiety over it. Since he has never done testing before, it's likely your ds will be a little bit nervous, not quite proficient at filling in bubbles, that kind of thing. That's NORMAL. Work out a deal. If he's less than the 50th percentile, you agree to (let's make a list here):

 

-do a portfolio review with a certified teacher or trusted veteran homeschooling mother to give you no bs advice on what you need to change

-implement whatever the reviewer says you need to do

-do it faithfully all summer, 4-5 days a week for at least 1 hour per day

-retest in the fall

 

That would be a reasonable course of action. They don't test grammar terms particularly on these tests, as I recall. Nuts, I've had mine for a month and haven't administered it yet. We do the CAT every year, sometimes from Seton, sometimes from CLP. They're equally fast. I've also done the Woodcock Johnson III (with a tester) and the WIAT. All our tests have been within the realm we expected, so the fact that it's an older test doesn't really seem to be an issue, at least for us. We like that it's quick to administer (3 days in our house), affordable, and sticks to the basics without a lot of stuff we don't need like science or social studies. Works for us.

 

You're really going to feel better once you have the test in hand. And if you don't, just chill out and do it anyway. You'll be fine. :)

[Candid]

Candid,

Thank you. I believe CLP uses CAT 1970 edition. Here is part of one reason they use this version - "We still use the older version of this nationally normed achievement test because the newer editions reflect a lower academic standard."

 

We have never tested. We have the option of assessments and that's what I prefer (and will still do for this year to send to the school) but DH wants this test.

 

So what are you recommending? I'm confused on all of this. I want to be able to test him here at home so I need something that allows me to do that.

 

Thank you all for your help. While I actually don't mind testing to see where our gaps are, the threat hanging over my head makes me nervous.

 

 

If you have a child who is judged to be somewhat behind, a dh who is wanting "proof" you are doing okay, why would you use a test that is an older, higher standard? That just doesn't make good sense to me.

 

It is worse because, some of that knowledge they will test from 1970 is no longer relevant. In some reading selections he might not recognize references to older telephones or radios, for instance, because they don't exist in 2013. So the test gets even harder for your son.

 

I'm not telling you to make the test incredibly easy, but don't make it unfair to your ds either. That's why I say get a recently normed test.

 

If your dh has fixated on this test, you must talk through this issue. OR consider finding a local test administrator who can chose the test for your situation and that your dh will have buy in on.

 

You and he also need to be educated in how standardized tests work. If your son is average then all his percentile scores will be at 50%. Which if you don't understand the score will sound terrible, like flunking. What I would work out in advance is what you dh expects the scores to be and how many can be at X level before the child needs to be put into a brick and mortar school.

 

It would be better to set those goals and have a plan to test twice about a year apart to make sure that wherever your ds is, he is advancing. Not how does he do in this one fixed moment.

 

It would also be wise to discuss in advance what happens with children who are behind in public school. Sometimes they can be brought up, but sometimes they become demoralized and get further and further behind. So talk about your situation and if you are helping your ds and feel confident you are reaching him.

[PeterPan]

 

With that said, don't be afraid to go a grade above. It really is setup regardless of grade to find out exactly where they are.

 

I'm not sure why you're saying this, but again, this is not accurate with the CAT. If you do the Woodcock Johnson III, yes you receive actual grade equivalencies. There are tests like this, yes, that tell the parent the actual level of work the dc is doing. However when you do most standardized testing (CAT, Iowa, etc.), you're actually receiving PERCENTILES which refer to how they COMPARE TO THEIR PEERS.

 

It's a percentile, not an actual grade level. I think CLP may also return stanines as well as percentiles. Seton gives a composite and the breakdown percentiles. A percentile shows you what percent of his peers (same grade, same month of testing) he scored BETTER than. I don't recall getting grade equivalences, though you do with the Iowa. Those are even more confusing, because they show you what grade level would score AT THAT SCORE with that test. Even more weird, eh? NEITHER of those actually tells you what grade level the dc is functioning at.

 

So for instance, my dd's reading level is age 30+. We've had her tested multiple ways (WJIII, etc.), and that's what it is. So if you give her a standardized test with percentiles, it will usually say 99%. That doesn't mean she got 99% of the problems right. It means she scored better than 99% of her peers. Depending on the day, her mood, what's going on outside and how the wind is blowing, she could even miss a couple and have that percentile go lower. Her actual reading level however is still age 30+. And if you were to get a grade equivalent, say on the Iowa (which we haven't done), I'm assuming they only go to gr 12. Haven't seen an Iowa score sheet in a number of years. So you see none of those scores show actual student level. They only show them in relation to their peers.

 

It's very important that users take the time to understand exactly what the test scores are showing them and how to use them accurately. As Candid said, you could take the test and be VERY apprehensive about a score if you don't realize what percentiles actually indicate. Doubtless you can google and find this info very easily. CLP and Seton both usually provide that explanation with your results.

[Garga]

We did th pe CAT last year online. It told me to enter thr grade that the child was going into, not the grade he/she is currently in. The test will tell you what grade to put.

 

If you want your son to look better to your dh, then say he's entering 3rd, and not that he's entering 4th.

 

And then get into high gear and don't let "life" get in the way anymore. If I was your dh and you stopped educating our child from time to time because "life got in the way" I'd be concerned, too.

 

Oh, and (don't tell my dh) but that happened to me this year, too (life getting in the way) and I had to take it up a notch and make homeschool a strict priority and get back on track.

[naturally]

Thank you all so much.

 

Wanting to clarify a little to Garga - it's not that we stopped school but more that because DS struggles with some things (mainly math) I didn't push him just to get further along in the curric. We have had times of an "unschooling" slant but we are still always getting the 3 Rs in, just more slowly.

 

Does CLP or Seton offer assistance in trying to figure out which test to get? Perhaps they can give additional insight with where we are.

[3monkeys]

I've only done the CAT online version. It specifically tells you to enter the grade you are going into. I did get a raw score, grade equivalent, percentile rank, and stanine. It was my understanding that they wanted you to enter the grade your child is going in, but it's testing the grade you completed. So if you enter 2nd grade, it knows you've completed 1 st grade. It's not testing a 2nd grader. I have given this same test at 3 different grades. Each one startss off easy, then grade level and continues to get harder. I had my first grader score at a fifth grade level for language Auding but everything else at 1st and 2nd only. That is completely accurate in what I see everyday at home. So my point is, no matter if you choose to put in 3rd or 4th grade doing the online version, you will get the information you want. I thought my 1st grader would do horrible with me putting him in as a 2nd grader, but after seeing the test I understand now that it isn't considering him a 2nd grader. Actually I'm looking at in now and it even labels it at the top of the page as CAT level 1 grade entering: grade 2. I know nothing of the printed version, so keep that in mind.