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s/o diplomas and transcripts, or Profile, etc - what do B&M schools give?


Joan in GE
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Nan and I are wondering what b & m schools are providing?

 

If you have any who have graduated from a b & m high school in the US, Europe, or Asia (or you still have your own records?-)), could you describe what is sent in the sealed envelope to requesting schools or employers?

 

In this post on Nan's thread, I desribe the transcript and Profile, and this post on Nan's thread, I described the diploma given by a private school here...but it is quite unlike what is given by the public schools here. (I have to get that from another son in the near future)....

 

So I'm wondering about the range of 'possible'....

 

How often is a School Profile included? I'm sure it isn't in my ds2's but then it's a local school that everyone knows...Would they send one to schools/employers abroad?

 

And if a School Profile is included - what is in that document?

 

Thanks,

Joan

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I will be back later today (candling the pines while the day is still cool) to list out exactly what is in my oldest's school profile. I have a copy because it was included with his transcript, which at some point was sent to us. Our guidance department is pretty friendly, so I can probably ask them questions, also.

 

At one point, I think I was told that our school department has to be notified when students in their district go to private school. I am also wondering how all that works, and what happens if at a later time, someone asks the department for that student's records. Are they refered to the private school? Or are they told that the student does not exist in their system?

 

What happens if you lose your diploma? Can you get another one from the school system?

 

Questions questions...

 

Nan

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And if a School Profile is included - what is in that document?

 

My public school has the following information on its school profile (which is a glossy brochure)

1. Population of community and school

2. Percentage breakdown of how many kids go on to four-year colleges, community college and military

3. Average ACT and SAT scores

4. A list of the AP classes offered (although they don't mention that not every AP class is offered every year)

5. A list stating the colleges that the prior graduating students had matriculated to.

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My public school has the following information on its school profile (which is a glossy brochure)

1. Population of community and school

2. Percentage breakdown of how many kids go on to four-year colleges, community college and military

3. Average ACT and SAT scores

4. A list of the AP classes offered (although they don't mention that not every AP class is offered every year)

5. A list stating the colleges that the prior graduating students had matriculated to.

 

 

Oh dear - this is kind of scary! Esp for over here....

 

Are there any schools which aren't giving school profiles now??

 

I'm also wondering what happens if the umb school closes....I guess private schools can close as well.....

 

Hmmmm,

Joan

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Oh dear - this is kind of scary! Esp for over here....

 

Are there any schools which aren't giving school profiles now??

 

I'm also wondering what happens if the umb school closes....I guess private schools can close as well.....

 

Hmmmm,

Joan

 

I actually sat down and wrote ours last week when we started talking about this. Kareni was nice enough to send me a copy of her document, and I combined ideas from that with samples I found online to come up with a general outline. I started out just making notes for myself, brainstorming how I could fill in those blanks, and found it easy enough that I decided to go ahead and finish it while the ideas were fresh.

 

I haven't actually sent it to any colleges, obviously. So, I can't say whether it's "right" or "good enough," but I didn't find it especially difficult to write.

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How often is a School Profile included? .Would they send one to schools/employers abroad?

 

 

Answering for Singapore since my kids are not high school age :)

High School (Junior College) profile is never included. No employer has ever ask for high school profile as we are on the Cambridge GCE A Levels system or International Baccalaureate system and both examination systems are pretty much understood by employers and universities abroad.

Friends and relatives who went to Australia and UK (Great Britain and Ireland) for undergrad was not asked for a high school profile. They just needed to supply certified true copies of their Cambridge A Levels results. The school would be able to certify free of charge. If the school is closed down, the Ministry of Education (MOE) would certify free of charge. The MOE does charge if they send the certified copy direct to the universities but I forgot how much. MOE has records of all students GCE A and O levels results so just pay up if you lose the original. I don't know anyone who applied to non-Commonwealth countries so not sure how that would work.

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I actually sat down and wrote ours last week when we started talking about this. Kareni was nice enough to send me a copy of her document, and I combined ideas from that with samples I found online to come up with a general outline. I started out just making notes for myself, brainstorming how I could fill in those blanks, and found it easy enough that I decided to go ahead and finish it while the ideas were fresh.

 

I haven't actually sent it to any colleges, obviously. So, I can't say whether it's "right" or "good enough," but I didn't find it especially difficult to write.

 

So what categories did you describe? You're talking about the School Profile, right? How did you get around 'average SAT/ACT' scores type of thing? Or did you just say you were a homeschool?

 

 

 

Answering for Singapore since my kids are not high school age :)

High School (Junior College) profile is never included. No employer has ever ask for high school profile as we are on the Cambridge GCE A Levels system or International Baccalaureate system and both examination systems are pretty much understood by employers and universities abroad.

Friends and relatives who went to Australia and UK (Great Britain and Ireland) for undergrad was not asked for a high school profile. They just needed to supply certified true copies of their Cambridge A Levels results. The school would be able to certify free of charge. If the school is closed down, the Ministry of Education (MOE) would certify free of charge. The MOE does charge if they send the certified copy direct to the universities but I forgot how much. MOE has records of all students GCE A and O levels results so just pay up if you lose the original. I don't know anyone who applied to non-Commonwealth countries so not sure how that would work.

 

Oh, this is a very good reason to do A-levels then. I can see where the school profile is not at all necessary if one is taking those standardized exams. It's more about the exam than the school..Are you planning to use A-levels for yours?

 

So then this idea should also translate if enough AP exams are done, except that they still request a diploma.....hmmm....

 

Thanks!

Joan

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No employer has ever ask for high school profile as we are on the Cambridge GCE A Levels system or International Baccalaureate system and both examination systems are pretty much understood by employers and universities abroad.

I am not aware of any employer in the US that would ever ask for a high school profile. As far as I know, colleges are the only ones that request a high school profile.

 

Imo, the high school profile is a great opportunity to provide more information to the college admissions committees about our kids and the unique educational experiences they had because they were homeschooled. I am glad that the colleges request this.

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So what categories did you describe? You're talking about the School Profile, right? How did you get around 'average SAT/ACT' scores type of thing? Or did you just say you were a homeschool?

 

 

Well, I did say we are a homeschool, right up front.

 

The current document has the following categories:

 

1. History and School Philosophy (In which I wrote about why we decided to homeschool and why I think it has worked well for our kids.)

2. Educational Partners (I listed a briefly described the outside agencies through which my kids have taken classes.)

3. Community Information (General information about our city/metro area, including population, median income, average educational attainment, etc. I got all of that from Wikipedia and our city's website. From the school district's website, I culled information about the number of students enrolled in high school. And I found the average composite ACT score for our county on the ACT website.)

4. Grading and Graduation Requirements (I found the requirements for our local public schools and included those, then showed how our kids meet and/or exceed those minimums. I also included a traditional 90/80/70 grading scale.)

5. Extracurricular Activities (I just wrote a few sentences about the kinds of activities in which each of our kids has participated, highlighting my son's interest in dance.)

 

The whole thing is about three pages long.

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Our Homeschool Profile document has the following:

 

1. Background (how and why we chose homeschooling)

2. Philosophy and Methods (talked about our focus on academic excellence and some unique things we did in math and science, plus our more classical, "great books" approach to literature and history)

3. Outside resources (listed and described the resources we used for outside classes: EPGY, Pennsylvania Homeschoolers, dual enrollment at a university, etc.)

4. AP, Honors, and Advanced level courses (listed all the advanced/college level courses we did, both home courses and outside; explained why we didn't label any courses "honors")

5. Grading and GPA (explained how I did grading both objective and subjective, the grading scale I used and the reasoning behind it, and how GPA was calculated--e.g. with no weighting)

6. Credits (explained how I awarded credits--i.e. what constitutes 1 credit, .5 credits etc.)

 

For ds, I sent the profile to all the colleges he applied to. Most of them used the Common Application, and so the profile was expected. One rolling admission college had it's own application and didn't request a profile--but we sent it anyway. It seemed to be accepted by all.

 

I have a homeschool profile all written up for dd (some of the details/approaches/classes were different for her) but only sent it to one college, I think. All the colleges dd applied to (except the one) were very familiar with homeschoolers, had rolling admissions and had their own applications. They only wanted transcripts, test scores, and letters of recommendation (same as for any student)--no mention of a profile! Oh well.

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I am not aware of any employer in the US that would ever ask for a high school profile. As far as I know, colleges are the only ones that request a high school profile.

 

Imo, the high school profile is a great opportunity to provide more information to the college admissions committees about our kids and the unique educational experiences they had because they were homeschooled. I am glad that the colleges request this.

 

 

It's just that the Int School here sends it with the transcript sent to whoever asks for a transcript, I believe, which got me thinking.

 

I would like to try just presenting the HS diploma - AP's if dd has the Swiss exam securely passed hidden in her back pocket so that she has a backup plan.....In CH at least, if you are under about 25 yo, they aren't interested in anything except the piece of paper saying you've succeeded your exams. They don't look at extracurriculars for bachelor level entry. Now that the Bologna accord is in operation, they do ask these types of questions for Master's level entry and are becoming more selective about the student Master's population...

 

Well, I did say we are a homeschool, right up front.

 

The current document has the following categories:

 

1. History and School Philosophy (In which I wrote about why we decided to homeschool and why I think it has worked well for our kids.)

2. Educational Partners (I listed a briefly described the outside agencies through which my kids have taken classes.)

3. Community Information (General information about our city/metro area, including population, median income, average educational attainment, etc. I got all of that from Wikipedia and our city's website. From the school district's website, I culled information about the number of students enrolled in high school. And I found the average composite ACT score for our county on the ACT website.)

4. Grading and Graduation Requirements (I found the requirements for our local public schools and included those, then showed how our kids meet and/or exceed those minimums. I also included a traditional 90/80/70 grading scale.)

5. Extracurricular Activities (I just wrote a few sentences about the kinds of activities in which each of our kids has participated, highlighting my son's interest in dance.)

 

The whole thing is about three pages long.

 

Thank you for sharing!

 

Our Homeschool Profile document has the following:

 

1. Background (how and why we chose homeschooling)

2. Philosophy and Methods (talked about our focus on academic excellence and some unique things we did in math and science, plus our more classical, "great books" approach to literature and history)

3. Outside resources (listed and described the resources we used for outside classes: EPGY, Pennsylvania Homeschoolers, dual enrollment at a university, etc.)

4. AP, Honors, and Advanced level courses (listed all the advanced/college level courses we did, both home courses and outside; explained why we didn't label any courses "honors")

5. Grading and GPA (explained how I did grading both objective and subjective, the grading scale I used and the reasoning behind it, and how GPA was calculated--e.g. with no weighting)

6. Credits (explained how I awarded credits--i.e. what constitutes 1 credit, .5 credits etc.)

 

For ds, I sent the profile to all the colleges he applied to. Most of them used the Common Application, and so the profile was expected. One rolling admission college had it's own application and didn't request a profile--but we sent it anyway. It seemed to be accepted by all.

 

I have a homeschool profile all written up for dd (some of the details/approaches/classes were different for her) but only sent it to one college, I think. All the colleges dd applied to (except the one) were very familiar with homeschoolers, had rolling admissions and had their own applications. They only wanted transcripts, test scores, and letters of recommendation (same as for any student)--no mention of a profile! Oh well.

 

 

Thank you too!

 

This completely was not on my radar until now....

 

Joan

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...This completely was not on my radar until now....

 

Joan

 

Groan. Diplomas weren't on my radar until this conversation. I guess that is what the homeschooling board is for - to make our world bigger and help us be better prepared.

 

I asked our school system what happens to the documentation I turn in every year. (I live in Mass. where I have to apply to homeschool every year with an educational plan for the year, and provide some sort of assessment at the end of every year.) They said that the records move from the active file to the inactive file, where they remain forever. If someone calls the school district with a question about whether my son graduated, they will tell them that he finished, that he completed the school district's requirements. I don't think they use the word "graduated". I can see how this might be good or it might be bad. The word "home school" might or might not be inserted before the word "requirements", perhaps a problem if someone associated with a country where homeschooling is illegal calls. On the other hand, I find it comforting that the school district will acknowledge him and give information about him.

 

It's funny. I suppose one could say, "Well if you were worried about all this, why did you choose to homeschool?" The answer would be that nobody in the family has gone to school or has gone to work in a foreign country before. That has come about BECAUSE we homeschooled. Oops. : ) Looking back, I am very glad we chose to homeschool, but I do rather wonder if it wouldn't have been a good idea to invest in an accredited cover school. We looked into it but chose not to because most of them would have made it harder to do the things we did that resulted in this international worry now. Just like public school. The one we found that might have worked was pretty expensive (Clonlara).

 

Nan

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Our public high school's school profile includes:

 

One size of legal size paper:

-address and key personel

-school seal

-gpa weighting information

-something called "Special Course Descriptions" which are discriptions of the AP's offered, the debate program, DECA, ILP's (TA's, IS's, dual enrollment, and work study), senior internship, science research program

 

The other side:

-philosophy

-description of school which includes number of students, faculty, percentage of faculty having advanced degrees, and accreditation

-profile of student body which includes how many went on to further education and what type, how many national merit scholar semi-finalists and commended students, how many took which tests and what the average score was, a note explaining which grades appear on the transcript, that rank is no longer provided, how gpa is calculated, how weighting is done, graduation requirements, AP information which inlcudes how many students received each score on each test

 

Nan

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The word "home school" might or might not be inserted before the word "requirements", perhaps a problem if someone associated with a country where homeschooling is illegal calls.

 

Just to say....it doesn't always seem to quite work like this....in Germany, there are people who have been homeschooled, who got the Abitur who were still accepted to university - as far as I know.

 

ETA - deleted for privacy for Europe

 

Joan

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Just to say....it doesn't always seem to quite work like this....in Germany, there are people who have been homeschooled, who got the Abitur who were still accepted to university - as far as I know.

 

Yet in one of the cantons here, where homeschooling is legal and growing, the university admissions are pretty clear that you had to attend a school, even if you have the above exam - at least for foreigners....I still need to find out how they look at Swiss who have taken the national exam who have 'self-studied'....

 

Joan

 

 

Sounds like Europe is just as inconsistent as the US. In my state, where it is perfectly legal to homeschool under the supervision of your school district, the state flagship university won't accept homeschoolers unless they have an official final transcript issued by the school district or a cover school or a GED.

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So then this idea should also translate if enough AP exams are done, except that they still request a diploma.....hmmm....

 

Thanks!

Joan

 

 

Kiddo just received his diploma from the... printer... place... with no name... mentioned on this board... And it is STUNNING. Hand calligraphy for his name, heavy vellum, embossed foil ink seal (not a sticker that has been smashed into the paper). Printed mushy vinyl cover, too.

 

You should have seen his face light up. It's like it wasn't real to him until that moment.

 

We're scanning/sending it over to the uni as soon as dad gets home from business and can sign it.

 

 

A

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So what categories did you describe? You're talking about the School Profile, right? How did you get around 'average SAT/ACT' scores type of thing? Or did you just say you were a homeschool?

 

 

In the Homeschool Profile that I sent with my daughter's application material, I had the following categories:

 

History: (how and why we came to homeschool)

 

Educational Partners: (which included the names and backgrounds of tutors, the name and some information on providers such as PA Homeschoolers, name and information on the local community college, etc.)

 

Community: (information about the community in which we live -- population, median household income, percent of the population with a college degree, size of the local high school, and district graduation rate. Also information about SAT scores -- see more below.)

 

Graduation Requirements and Testing: (listed state public school graduation requirements and the fact that our daughter had far exceeded those requirements.)

 

Transportation and Activities: (I included this section since we are a one car family and my daughter relied on public transportation to get to the local community college, co-op, and to her volunteer position. All rides were at least an hour long. I included the line "Given this limitation, we have encouraged G to pursue at-home interests rather than out of the home extracurricular interests.")

 

Joan, you asked about 'average SAT/ACT' scores. In the Community portion of the profile, I included this information:

 

"In 2006, 92 XX High School students took the SAT. The average scores were Critical Reading 504, Math 509, and Writing 473. In comparison, G’s SAT scores, earned in 2008, were Critical Reading 700, Math 680, and Writing 800."

 

If you (or others) would like to see the homeschool profile I wrote, simply send me a personal message with your email address.

 

Regards,

Kareni

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Joan, you asked about 'average SAT/ACT' scores. In the Community portion of the profile, I included this information:

 

"In 2006, 92 XX High School students took the SAT. The average scores were Critical Reading 504, Math 509, and Writing 473. In comparison, G’s SAT scores, earned in 2008, were Critical Reading 700, Math 680, and Writing 800."

 

Very interesting. I'm curious about the "Community" part...with the 92 XX students...you meant those were the students who took it at the local high school?

 

Thanks - and I plan to pm but have to go out.

 

Joan

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Answering for Singapore since my kids are not high school age :)

High School (Junior College) profile is never included. No employer has ever ask for high school profile as we are on the Cambridge GCE A Levels system or International Baccalaureate system and both examination systems are pretty much understood by employers and universities abroad.

Friends and relatives who went to Australia and UK (Great Britain and Ireland) for undergrad was not asked for a high school profile. They just needed to supply certified true copies of their Cambridge A Levels results. The school would be able to certify free of charge. If the school is closed down, the Ministry of Education (MOE) would certify free of charge. The MOE does charge if they send the certified copy direct to the universities but I forgot how much. MOE has records of all students GCE A and O levels results so just pay up if you lose the original. I don't know anyone who applied to non-Commonwealth countries so not sure how that would work.

 

This would be similar for those educated in the UK, except that because one applies to a university before one has received the A level results, the school will send predicted grades to the university, and the offer will be confirmed when the real grades come in.

 

L

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the offer will be confirmed when the real grades come in.

 

This is what makes the application process more nerve-wracking here....That you don't really know for sure what you will be doing the following year because it's all dependent on passing those exams, getting that piece of paper....So we didn't know til July when the AP exam results came out, and then the paperwork still had to pass through - where theoretically it was ok - but it still felt shaky to me....

 

And the Matu federal is taken at the end of the summer so kids taking that exam only know whether they can go to university about two weeks before it starts...

 

Joan

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This is what makes the application process more nerve-wracking here....That you don't really know for sure what you will be doing the following year because it's all dependent on passing those exams, getting that piece of paper....So we didn't know til July when the AP exam results came out, and then the paperwork still had to pass through - where theoretically it was ok - but it still felt shaky to me....

 

And the Matu federal is taken at the end of the summer so kids taking that exam only know whether they can go to university about two weeks before it starts...

 

Joan

 

It's the system I grew up with, so I find it normal. What I find strange is (as in the US) getting a firm offer at a university and then having months at high school afterwards. It seems as if it would be really dead time.

 

Laura

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But aren't kids living on pins and needles - having to have alternative plans lined up for the following year?

 

Well, in the UK you are allowed to hold onto two university choices. Most people have a 'probable' and a 'just in case'. So I knew that I would either go to choice A or choice B, unless there was a complete disaster in my exam taking. It doesn't feel that bad, especially when everyone you know is following the same system (and their parents did the same....).

 

L

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Margaret - It sounds as though yours is a bit different. I like the statute part, your table, and that you put the initials after the names of the instructors. My mother suggested that, too. All three of these things sounds like they would contribute to my efforts to make our graduation documents as offical sounding as possible.

 

Nan

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Well, in the UK you are allowed to hold onto two university choices. Most people have a 'probable' and a 'just in case'. So I knew that I would either go to choice A or choice B, unless there was a complete disaster in my exam taking. It doesn't feel that bad, especially when everyone you know is following the same system (and their parents did the same....).

 

 

Hmmm...well, here you wouldn't get into either if you don't pass the matu - though perhaps you could get into a prep program for the French tech institute..They don't have numerus clausus (finally found those words) for most programs.....So either you've passed and are in, or didn't pass and

aren't...

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Hmmm...well, here you wouldn't get into either if you don't pass the matu - though perhaps you could get into a prep program for the French tech institute..They don't have numerus clausus (finally found those words) for most programs.....So either you've passed and are in, or didn't pass and

aren't...

 

 

That does make a difference: here it's not 'pass/fail' but 'how well did you do and therefore which university will you attend'.

 

L

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That was my goal--to make it look quite official! I wanted them to see that we take education quite seriously and hey, I can speak jargon with the best of them!

 

I am considering listing academic credentials since dh and I both have masters' degrees. On the other hand neither of us are science and math degrees so I'm worried it would backfire.

 

I found some public and private school profiles

Fairfax Co public AP school http://www.fcps.edu/woodsonhs/guidance/academics/ai_docs/profile.pdf

County science magnet http://tjpartnershipfund.org/docs/TJ%20School%20Profile%2010-11.pdf

Private prep school http://www.gonzaga.org/document.Doc?id=3436

Texas public school http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/pshs/Profile1.pdf

 

There used to be a big reference tha colleges used that gave some of this info like percentage of students going on to 2 and 4 year colleges. I know that about 5 years ago the Naval Academy began requiring profiles as part of the application. I'm not sure if the reference went away or if they were looking for more depth like what level of courses were offered.

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Something to make ya'll smile: kid was uploading his ACT report to his Uni yesterday, actually stopped to read it (durrr...) and said "HEY - did ACT calculate a GPA for me? How did they do that?"

 

:: Bangs Head ::

 

no, sweetie - that is your GPA - mommy gave it to them

 

 

a

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