Spelling question, opinions, ideas for 4th grade

[sarawatsonim]

My dd8 is currently in third grade and while she reads well (approx 8th grade level) her spelling is not good. She spells many words phonetically even after she has been taught a spelling rule, or the correct spelling of a word. We have been using AAS for three years, and while it was wonderful for the first 1.5 years, it seems to not work for her anymore. Halfway through AAS level 3 she seems to have hit a roadblock. Nothing is sticking, everything seems to go in one ear and out the other. I was thinking of something more workbook like. Something she literally has to sit down, read, focus, and process to do. I have heard that R&S is the workbook equivalent of AAS, and although we are not religious I have no issues using a spelling curriculum from a Christian publisher if it is going to work ;) I have also been toying with the idea of Sequential Spelling. What do you think would be a good choice? I am open to suggestions. Thanks.

[warneral]

I wouldn't say R&S 5 was a workbook equivalent to AAS (we got mid way through level 5 before quitting). There is some word study/phonogram work and my kids enjoyed it this year. There were quite a few religious terms as spelling words FYI. Not a problem for this evangelical family but thought I would point it out. I think we will continue as it also had vocabulary work as part of the lessons.

 

 

What about how to teach spelling with how to spell workbooks?

 

Or what about trying Apples &Pears?

[Ellie]

I wouldn't say R&S was a workbook equivalent to AAS, either. :huh:

 

Spelling by Sound and Structure is a very traditional spelling series. The spelling lists aren't necessarily very difficult, but the activities (beginning with third grade) are quite challenging. It's hard to know if SSS would make a difference with your dd, but it is inexpensive, and it couldn't hurt to do it (I'd finish a whole book though, not just a few lessons).

[sixpence1978]

My DD is also a very phonetic speller. AAS rules didn't stick with her or help her either. Apples & Pears has been the best fit for her, but Sequential Spelling also helped. Some kids learn better with phonograms and rules, and others learn better with patterns. It could be you have a pattern learner like I have.

[twoxcell]

We switched from AAS to R&S Spelling By Sound and Structure last year and I am very happy with it. There are religious words and references. Also I'm not sure I would say that R&S is the same as AAS but it is a really good program. I like that it is very independent, inexpensive, and is thorough. :)

[Guest amothersite]

Here are some suggestions if your daughter is visual.

I have a high visual and auditory daughter who is about the same age and sound to be doing similar things. I have verbally stated the rules since she started reading. I have started Orton Gillingham spelling (virtually the same as AAS) and have the same issue of things not "sticking" yet,

For her it is a matter of "playing" with words over and over until she sees them and memorizes them. This is where the AAS may work in the end with some extra "aids". I add some strategies for word pictures for spelling from http://www.diannecraft.org and use the color scheme for vowels and letters from Montessori. I think these may work best because my daughter is very visual. I even made a "word wall" that uses the IEW Phonetic Farm grouping by vowel type instead of organizing the words by first letter for tricky words. This way she can organize the words by vowel type and see them according to their type.

[dmmm]

My dd is having the same issues. She can memorize lists to get through them, but they don't stick. We did AAS for quite sometime, but while she gets the words correct the day we do them, they don't stick at all. Sequential Spelling has a few free lessons, so I decided to give it a whirl. I did buy the program (by accident since I put it in my Amazon cart instead of my wish list and my dh bought everything in it :laugh: ). My dd likes it better, but again, it doesn't seem like she is carrying it forward. We are only on Lesson 17 though, so I figure I will finish out the book. Maybe.

 

Here is a link to the first 8 lessons (of Level 1).

http://www.avko.org/sequentialspellingsample.html

[Hunter]

I've noticed this same phenomena where the phonics lessons stop working after awhile and progress stops. I'm still new to it, but adding Spelling Plus and Dictation Resource Book to my phonics program is showing some promising results.

 

Spelling Plus divides the 1000 most common words into 6 levels (plus just a few words for K) and then drills the Hades out of them, by having the student WRITE them during dictation.

[Mrs Twain]

I have been using Spelling Power, but it wasn't enough for my 4th grader who is an excellent reader but only average speller. This year I added R&S Spelling and am happy using a combination of both programs. The reason I am keeping Spelling Power is that the word lists are more difficult than in R&S. I am probably going to use R&S a grade level higher for my younger kids just because of this. However, the word activities in the R&S workbook are quite challenging. I don't have results to share yet, but I was very surprised by how good the R&S Spelling program is (IMO).

[Lori D.]

Amothersite beat me to it. ;) I was going to suggest that there is the possibility that your DD is a visual learner, and if that's the case, a workbook program and writing the words repeatedly will NOT help them stick for her.

 

In addition to the GREAT suggestions of the Dianne Craft ideas, and Phonetic Farm idea of grouping words by vowel patterns, we worked with words on the white board using different colors to highlight the vowel patterns, prefixes, and word ending changes; are fabulous helps for the visual learner. Also, drawing a picture/telling a story was a huge help in getting the vowel patterns and rules to "stick".

 

For example, I would write the word "meat" and "meet" on the white board with the vowel pairs in red to stand out; then tell a simple story and draw a picture around each word: "It takes 2 people to meet and greet [draw a stick figure each standing on an "e" in "meet", shaking hands], so there are two "e"s in "meet"." For "meat": "I LOVE to eat meat". [turn the "a" in meat into a heart]

 

It sounds like the key for your DD is to help her really SEE the vowel patterns to be able to remember them.

 

And, as Hunter was suggesting, once you've introduced the words and worked with the words for a few days, then practice simultaneous writing/spelling through dictating a very short sentence with 2 or 3 spelling words in it, and have the student spell each word out loud as the student writes each word of the sentence.

 

BEST of luck in finding what helps! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

PS -- below is from an "wayback machine" screen shot webpage of Paula's Archives with her goofy sentences that is a very similar technique to Phonetic Farm's grouping idea -- these are just based on Spelling Power's vowel pattern rules. We adapted this and made our own sentences, which helped a bit to have something to compare all the different ways to spell "long A" for example. We used the spelling reference book "The ABCs and All Their Tricks" to help us find all the different types of spelling rules for the different vowel sounds, and then created a short sentence for each. If I were to do this again, I would make it a highly visual reference on a strip of cardboard, using color to highlight the vowel patterns, and even little stick figures and drawings to help make the vowel pattern rules more visual.

 

 

How to use the rules

First, he learns to spell the goofy sentences.

 

Then, he needs to spell "chair." He spells it "chere" and it doesn't look right. So on a piece of scrap paper, he writes, "Who dares go there to their bear's fair?", which is rule 14, the rule for the "air" sound. Then he tries each potential spelling: chare, chere, cheir, chear, chair; and selects the one that looks right.

 

 

Paula's Spelling Power rules

6 Wait eight days to make great clay.

7 We happy chiefs receive these deep cleanings.

8 Try to tie nice wild tigers at night.

9 I hope an old doe will go slow in the boat.

10 A huge blue fruit moves new soup to the moon.

12 Her first nurse works on early journals. "or" after w; "er" at end of words.

13 Pour war corn on your door before roaring. "ar" after w.

14 Who dares go there to their bear's fair?

15 Irritated deer made a frontier series this year.

16 How clowns shout and howl in the shower!

17 My tall daughter always thought she saw the cause.

18 Toy coin

19 I should push good.

22 I know lambs talk and write for hours.

24 I miss the full jazz stuff.

29 A total pencil costs a little nickel.

32 The flies tried buying the keys. Change y to i after a consonant.

 

I love Spelling Power. The one thing I don't like is some of the group rules, especially the ones for Groups 6-19+, which are lists of possible spellings for the target vowel sound. They're too hard to remember that way, and I disagree with some of the choices of possible spellings. I have developed goofy sentences which use all the spellings I consider standard for a particular group's sound. They're easier to remember than a laundry list, too. The numbers refer to group numbers. If these don't make any sense to you now, they will if you start using the program.

[Mommy22alyns]

I have been using Spelling Power, but it wasn't enough for my 4th grader who is an excellent reader but only average speller. This year I added R&S Spelling and am happy using a combination of both programs. The reason I am keeping Spelling Power is that the word lists are more difficult than in R&S. I am probably going to use R&S a grade level higher for my younger kids just because of this. However, the word activities in the R&S workbook are quite challenging. I don't have results to share yet, but I was very surprised by how good the R&S Spelling program is (IMO).

 

 

How are you working using both of them together? I was also using Spelling Power for Rebecca, but she does better if she sees the words first, so I was going to switch her to SBSS like Sylvia. I wasn't sure what level to put her in though, and I hadn't decided what to do with SP.

[Mrs Twain]

 

 

How are you working using both of them together? I was also using Spelling Power for Rebecca, but she does better if she sees the words first, so I was going to switch her to SBSS like Sylvia. I wasn't sure what level to put her in though, and I hadn't decided what to do with SP.

I do Spelling Power 2-3 times per week. On the first day, I test a new list and have him use the practice sheet to practice misspelled words. I keep a running list of words my son gets wrong from Spelling Power. I also add words to this list from R&S Spelling that he has trouble with. On one of two other days of the week, I test him from this list so he can practice the words he has trouble with. At a different time during the day (when my kids are doing independent workbooks), he completes one section from R&S Spelling. I haven't done separate spelling tests for R&S Spelling yet, but I may add that in the future.