faithbasedboys.org ??? (not an unbiased post)

[albeto]

There is zero point in this discussion really.

 

Oh, I don't agree. On a forum that exists to support home educators who are inspired to teach their kids to pay attention to details and think critically, some of the arguments offered in this thread are enormously interesting. For example, I can't recall the last time a Christian confessed to following their religion, knowing it to be a source of pain and suffering and violence, because the alternative (Hell) is worse. Not only that, but the passion with which people defend the god of this religion suggests a pervasive, socially acceptable Stockholm Syndrome mentality. This mentality, however, is not only accepted it's celebrated. The outcry over the BSA evolving its ethical policy both nationally and on this thread, are a testament to this celebration. I suggest it also illuminates the kind of privilege religion has in our society, even when it acknowledges inspiring and protecting public policy that would otherwise be considered inappropriate, if not illegal.

[albeto]

Are you just talking about North America? Because there are many countries in the world that have laws against homosexuality and those countries may only have a very small percentage of Christians (if any).

 

Yes, I'm talking only about North America.

 

:)

[poppy]

I'm surprised anyone finds this surprising.

I'm not surprised by bigotry and misinformation. But I'm surprised it's fine with the mods, and is comes from a sizable minority of posters (apparently). I thought this was a board about parents as thoughtful educators and critical thinkers.

[elegantlion]

The most interesting thing to me about this is how fast public opinion changed and by how much. I can't think of any other public issue where this has happened so quickly.

 

I'm curious, then, if you'd be willing to share what caused you to change your mind about this? What is so different about this issue than the zillions of others where none of us ever change our minds. Hopefully, before the thread is shutdown...

 

I started looking at the science of the issue, looking at the number of people I went to high school with that actually came out after high school (I'm in my 40s), looking at my relatives that came out (some raised in small town rural very conservative environments, gay not something they would just decide to be on a whim). I looked at the 10 commandments, the scripture to love your neighbor as yourself, the fact we had a gay neighbor at the time was slightly ironic. The fact that if I believe that we are all sinners and fall short, then well, I should stay out of other people's business.

 

I also still believe that acts that happen behind bedroom doors are private matters. I also believe that as long as it happens between two consenting adults, it's none of my business. It's hard enough to find someone to love you warts and all in this world. Gay marriage and gay relationships don't harm me. They don't make me want to be gay.

 

This is a country of Americans, the tired poor and hungry, the people yearning to be free, not just the conservative christians. Gay people could live with their partners, but some want to be married, some want equal benefits awarded spouses. Heck, heterosexual people have been screwing up marriage for a really long time, who are we to say gay people have no right. I'm separated and in the midst of divorce. Marriage is hard enough with simply two people in it. When you add politics, wow, difficult. If gay people want to be happy and see if they can increase marriage longevity statistics, have at it.

 

Many of my friends are gay, bi, or came out after I knew them. It never changed my interaction with them. I think people spend too long looking at the perceived sin of another and forget that they are a person of value. You ain't gotta agree with everything about them to love them and treat them with respect. (Pulling out my Firefly slang) Life is hard, period. We're all in this thing together, that doesn't mean we are clones of each other, but this is humanity, us.

[suzybluecheese]

 

I started looking at the science of the issue, looking at the number of people I went to high school with that actually came out after high school (I'm in my 40s), looking at my relatives that came out (some raised in small town rural very conservative environments, gay not something they would just decide to be on a whim). I looked at the 10 commandments, the scripture to love your neighbor as yourself, the fact we had a gay neighbor at the time was slightly ironic. The fact that if I believe that we are all sinners and fall short, then well, I should stay out of other people's business.

 

I also still believe that acts that happen behind bedroom doors are private matters. I also believe that as long as it happens between two consenting adults, it's none of my business. It's hard enough to find someone to love you warts and all in this world. Gay marriage and gay relationships don't harm me. They don't make me want to be gay.

 

This is a country of Americans, the tired poor and hungry, the people yearning to be free, not just the conservative christians. Gay people could live with their partners, but some want to be married, some want equal benefits awarded spouses. Heck, heterosexual people have been screwing up marriage for a really long time, who are we to say gay people have no right. I'm separated and in the midst of divorce. Marriage is hard enough with simply two people in it. When you add politics, wow, difficult. If gay people want to be happy and see if they can increase marriage longevity statistics, have at it.

 

Many of my friends are gay, bi, or came out after I knew them. It never changed my interaction with them. I think people spend too long looking at the perceived sin of another and forget that they are a person of value. You ain't gotta agree with everything about them to love them and treat them with respect. (Pulling out my Firefly slang) Life is hard, period. We're all in this thing together, that doesn't mean we are clones of each other, but this is humanity, us.

 

You've got me crying.

[Mrs Mungo]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

[Guest inoubliable]

 

I started looking at the science of the issue, looking at the number of people I went to high school with that actually came out after high school (I'm in my 40s), looking at my relatives that came out (some raised in small town rural very conservative environments, gay not something they would just decide to be on a whim). I looked at the 10 commandments, the scripture to love your neighbor as yourself, the fact we had a gay neighbor at the time was slightly ironic. The fact that if I believe that we are all sinners and fall short, then well, I should stay out of other people's business.

 

I also still believe that acts that happen behind bedroom doors are private matters. I also believe that as long as it happens between two consenting adults, it's none of my business. It's hard enough to find someone to love you warts and all in this world. Gay marriage and gay relationships don't harm me. They don't make me want to be gay.

 

This is a country of Americans, the tired poor and hungry, the people yearning to be free, not just the conservative christians. Gay people could live with their partners, but some want to be married, some want equal benefits awarded spouses. Heck, heterosexual people have been screwing up marriage for a really long time, who are we to say gay people have no right. I'm separated and in the midst of divorce. Marriage is hard enough with simply two people in it. When you add politics, wow, difficult. If gay people want to be happy and see if they can increase marriage longevity statistics, have at it.

 

Many of my friends are gay, bi, or came out after I knew them. It never changed my interaction with them. I think people spend too long looking at the perceived sin of another and forget that they are a person of value. You ain't gotta agree with everything about them to love them and treat them with respect. (Pulling out my Firefly slang) Life is hard, period. We're all in this thing together, that doesn't mean we are clones of each other, but this is humanity, us.

 

Awesome. That was just awesome. Thank you for sharing.

[unfrumpable.]

 

I started looking at the science of the issue, looking at the number of people I went to high school with that actually came out after high school (I'm in my 40s), looking at my relatives that came out (some raised in small town rural very conservative environments, gay not something they would just decide to be on a whim). I looked at the 10 commandments, the scripture to love your neighbor as yourself, the fact we had a gay neighbor at the time was slightly ironic. The fact that if I believe that we are all sinners and fall short, then well, I should stay out of other people's business.

 

I also still believe that acts that happen behind bedroom doors are private matters. I also believe that as long as it happens between two consenting adults, it's none of my business. It's hard enough to find someone to love you warts and all in this world. Gay marriage and gay relationships don't harm me. They don't make me want to be gay.

 

This is a country of Americans, the tired poor and hungry, the people yearning to be free, not just the conservative christians. Gay people could live with their partners, but some want to be married, some want equal benefits awarded spouses. Heck, heterosexual people have been screwing up marriage for a really long time, who are we to say gay people have no right. I'm separated and in the midst of divorce. Marriage is hard enough with simply two people in it. When you add politics, wow, difficult. If gay people want to be happy and see if they can increase marriage longevity statistics, have at it.

 

Many of my friends are gay, bi, or came out after I knew them. It never changed my interaction with them. I think people spend too long looking at the perceived sin of another and forget that they are a person of value. You ain't gotta agree with everything about them to love them and treat them with respect. (Pulling out my Firefly slang) Life is hard, period. We're all in this thing together, that doesn't mean we are clones of each other, but this is humanity, us.

 

 

Your post brought tears to my eyes.

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

I started looking at the science of the issue, looking at the number of people I went to high school with that actually came out after high school (I'm in my 40s), looking at my relatives that came out (some raised in small town rural very conservative environments, gay not something they would just decide to be on a whim). I looked at the 10 commandments, the scripture to love your neighbor as yourself, the fact we had a gay neighbor at the time was slightly ironic. The fact that if I believe that we are all sinners and fall short, then well, I should stay out of other people's business.

 

I also still believe that acts that happen behind bedroom doors are private matters. I also believe that as long as it happens between two consenting adults, it's none of my business. It's hard enough to find someone to love you warts and all in this world. Gay marriage and gay relationships don't harm me. They don't make me want to be gay.

 

This is a country of Americans, the tired poor and hungry, the people yearning to be free, not just the conservative christians. Gay people could live with their partners, but some want to be married, some want equal benefits awarded spouses. Heck, heterosexual people have been screwing up marriage for a really long time, who are we to say gay people have no right. I'm separated and in the midst of divorce. Marriage is hard enough with simply two people in it. When you add politics, wow, difficult. If gay people want to be happy and see if they can increase marriage longevity statistics, have at it.

 

Many of my friends are gay, bi, or came out after I knew them. It never changed my interaction with them. I think people spend too long looking at the perceived sin of another and forget that they are a person of value. You ain't gotta agree with everything about them to love them and treat them with respect. (Pulling out my Firefly slang) Life is hard, period. We're all in this thing together, that doesn't mean we are clones of each other, but this is humanity, us.

 

I agree with this.

[Shawna in Texas]

 

 

I, personally, would love to see you get started on Catholics as well.

 

I, apparently, left Houston way too soon.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Once we have fed all of the hungry, clothed all of the naked, given all of the thirsty a drink, and comforted those lost and alone, then maybe we can worry about what other consenting adults do in their lives.

Until that day, I believe Jesus gave us instructions that are much more important.

[HRAAB]

 

Many of my friends are gay, bi, or came out after I knew them. It never changed my interaction with them. I think people spend too long looking at the perceived sin of another and forget that they are a person of value. You ain't gotta agree with everything about them to love them and treat them with respect. (Pulling out my Firefly slang) Life is hard, period. We're all in this thing together, that doesn't mean we are clones of each other, but this is humanity, us.

 

I love a chance to say AMEN.

[Embassy]

Once we have fed all of the hungry, clothed all of the naked, given all of the thirsty a drink, and comforted those lost and alone, then maybe we can worry about what other consenting adults do in their lives.

Until that day, I believe Jesus gave us instructions that are much more important.

:iagree: I do believe homosexuality is a sin, but no bigger sin than so many other things. I do think that all people should have equal rights and I have no problem with gay marriage because I don't live in a theocracy. There are so many more important things we should do as Christians than to try to legislate morality or to condemn people. I think the Christian group that went to the gay pride parade in Chicago has a good perspective. http://naytinalbert.blogspot.com/2010/06/i-hugged-man-in-his-underwear-and-i-am.html

[Alice]

I’m a fairly conservative Christian, we’re in Scouts. We’ll be staying in Scouts and I agree with the decision by the BSA. My thoughts...

 

*Even if I believe that homosexuality is a sin (my own thoughts on this are evolving), it’s no worse a sin than any I commit any day of the week. Sin is sin in my mind and the idea that I as a Christian have the right to decide which sin is so bad as to deserve exclusion is just wrong. I firmly believe that the way homosexuals have been treated is an issue that the church as a whole is going to look back on with shame and regret one day. We have not acted in a way that loves our neighbors as ourselves.

 

*Totally separate in my mind from the homosexuality and Christianity issue, Scouts is not a Christian organization. If it met solely in churches, I would agree that the organization should conform to the views of that particular church. However, it is frequently sponsored by schools, other faith groups or secular civic organizations. I don’t expect Scouts to teach my son the finer points of the Heidelberg Catechism and I don’t go to Scouts expecting to agree with everyone there on every issue. I can understand why some sponsoring churches may struggle with what they will do with this decision but that is different than saying that every Scout troop must conform to particular set of beliefs.

 

*What really bugs me is the idea that keeping homosexuals out somehow “keeps our kids saferâ€, which is repeated over and over on the faithbasedboys site. As many organizations have seen (Scouts very prominently) the potential for abuse is there regardless of the stated sexual preference of a leader. For one thing, pedophilia and homosexuality are not the same thing at all. Abuse is not about sex any more than rape is about sex. Keep the boys safe by doing what they do now, no adult is alone with a Scout, etc. We are only in Cub Scouts so I don’t actually know the Boy Scout policies but I’d assume they are similar to the Cub Scout ones. I know the decision currently is only for scouts and not leaders but it appears that the perceived danger of having gay leaders is one of the slippery-slope arguments against this decision.

[Cindy in FL.]

As she takes more... Eventually....

 

See, these are steps on a road in my mind. She took each one. She could have stopped early on before her brain was changed too much couldn't she? Or are you saying that that first drink completely flipped a switch in her brain. I am pretty sure that at the beginning she could have easily turned back. But, she was unhappy in her marriage and already had some one else lined up.

 

I've been a drinker in my life. I know the good way that alcohol can make you feel. There can be a definite allure. She could have stopped, but she made a conscious decision not to.

 

 

 

She had a disease in which her brain, her literal brain, reacts to alcohol with a physical need and craving for more. As she takes more, her body senses she has "enough" feel good chemicals and stops making neurotransmitters to allow for a normal level of stability. Eventually, chronic alcohol use (which only happens in the body of someone who has the disease, and therefore the craving response) means that the person doesn't have a level of *natural* mood stabilizers. They begin to use/drink in order to not feel like crap.

 

The treatment is an ongoing constellation of brain changing activity, activity that *heal* the brain away from the craving response and towards production of mood enhancers. This can happen in many ways; engaged 12 step activity is an efficient way, as well as engaged religious/spiritual. Most people need that AND more.

 

Alcoholism isn't "sin" or moral character any more than cancer, diabetes, heart disease or arthritis. It just has more stigma and misinformation.

[Catwoman]

I'm sorry about your mom, Cindy. :(

[Mrs Mungo]

I also believe that disagreeing with someone's behavior is not the same as hating them. My sons are taught that everyone is made in the image of God and therefore has inherent worth and dignity.

 

You can love someone and disagree with them. But, when you intentionally exclude growing/developing children/adolescents/teens from an activity because of who they are, then that is not an act of love, IMO.

[Cindy in FL.]

I just have to say that I do not believe that the Bible (or Christianity) advocates violence against homosexuals. I do not see how anything I said could be construed that way. I do not believe that homosexuality is right, but I'm certainly not going to physically attack someone over it, or mock them, or call them names, or shun them, or try to make them feel bad. If someone told me they were homosexual, I wouldn't treat them any differently. I wouldn't even tell them that I disagreed with it unless they asked me for my thoughts. I do not hate homosexuals. I don't picket against homosexuals, I don't have a secret membership at Westboro Baptist, I don't make jokes or otherwise belittle them. I simply do not believe that it is right. Why is that so difficult to grasp? Please stop saying that people that disagree with homosexuality want evil and violence perpetrated on its practicers. It is unfair and not true.

 

My children know that there is nothing they could do that will make me love them any less. Nothing. That does not mean that I have to agree with and support everything they do.

 

 

[Cindy in FL.]

Mock away, Jennifer, mock away.

 

 

 

 

That thinking fascinates me. Cool. So God already knew I was going to be a sarcastic skeptic before I was even conceived and thus hasn't expected more from me. Cool. I don't have to worry about following him because he knew before I was born that I wouldn't. That's really cool!

 

I get to hang out in h - e - double hockeysticks with the Goddess guilt FREE!!!

 

I don't know what religion this is but I like it. There were facets of Protestantism (just keep working and God will love you!) that I never understood but this path seems better in some respects. If I'm going to follow a god, I want to follow one who doesn't expect more from me than he already knows I can or will do.

[Mrs Mungo]

I just have to say that I do not believe that the Bible (or Christianity) advocates violence against homosexuals. I do not see how anything I said could be construed that way. I do not believe that homosexuality is right, but I'm certainly not going to physically attack someone over it, or mock them, or call them names, or shun them, or try to make them feel bad. If someone told me they were homosexual, I wouldn't treat them any differently. I wouldn't even tell them that I disagreed with it unless they asked me for my thoughts.

 

If you would not shun them or treat them differently, then how do you disagree with the new BSA policy? Why support systematic shunning and exclusion versus personal shunning and exclusion? How is it different?

[Cindy in FL.]

I do not disagree with the policy of allowing gay boys in the Boy Scouts as delineated.

 

 

 

If you would not shun them or treat them differently, then how do you disagree with the new BSA policy? Why support systematic shunning and exclusion versus personal shunning and exclusion? How is it different?

 

[Guest inoubliable]

I just have to say that I do not believe that the Bible (or Christianity) advocates violence against homosexuals. I do not see how anything I said could be construed that way. I do not believe that homosexuality is right, but I'm certainly not going to physically attack someone over it, or mock them, or call them names, or shun them, or try to make them feel bad. If someone told me they were homosexual, I wouldn't treat them any differently. I wouldn't even tell them that I disagreed with it unless they asked me for my thoughts. I do not hate homosexuals. I don't picket against homosexuals, I don't have a secret membership at Westboro Baptist, I don't make jokes or otherwise belittle them. I simply do not believe that it is right. Why is that so difficult to grasp? Please stop saying that people that disagree with homosexuality want evil and violence perpetrated on its practicers. It is unfair and not true.

 

My children know that there is nothing they could do that will make me love them any less. Nothing. That does not mean that I have to agree with and support everything they do.

 

 

 

Did someone say that people who think homosexuals are wrong for being homosexual also want to harm them? I didn't see that. FTR, I don't think you were advocating violence.

 

We all agree, I think, that people are free to believe in whatever they want to believe. You just can't discriminate against a group of people based on your personal belief. THAT is wrong. I cannot imagine you have a loving god who would be okay with that.

[Cindy in FL.]

Thank you for that. See, there you are being all kind, encouraging, and loving again. Just can't stop yourself, can you?

 

 

I'm sorry about your mom, Cindy. :(

 

[Catwoman]

Thank you for that. See, there you are being all kind, encouraging, and loving again. Just can't stop yourself, can you?

 

 

:D :D :D :D

 

Sorry, I'm trying to cut back, but you know how it is....... ;)

 

I'll try to be mean again later. :D

[Cindy in FL.]

KKinVa,

 

This post seems to indicate that Christianity supports violence against homosexuals. The funny thing is that if I said that Islam supports or encourages violence around the world, I'd get in big trouble. In every group or movement there are those that would do that, but it isn't fair to characterize all adherents that way.

 

 

 

I understand what you're saying. What I'm suggesting is what if what you had been conditioned to believe, what you had been conditioned to understand as "God," is wrong. How would you know? LGBTQ are saying they *know* this is a normal part of their identity for them, it's not "disordered," or a matter of conditioning. Some Christians on this thread are suggesting they are wrong, even though they feel they are right. So... how do you know YOU are right? How do you know that the religion you follow, you *believe deep in your soul* to be right and true and good, really is?

 

What if the fact that your religion doesn't raise any red flags for you when it's pointed out that it encourages violence (evil?) against otherwise innocent people, is because you've been conditioned to ignore that and instead believe the feeling you have is indicative of the truth. This is the argument used against LGBTQ being "normal": a conditioned response to erroneously believe the feeling they have is indicative of the truth.

 

So, how do you know you're right but they're wrong, considering, according to this argument, you're both doing the exact. same. thing?

 

[Jennifer3141]

Mock away, Jennifer, mock away.

 

 

 

I'm NOT mocking. I truly find this way of thinking fascinating.

 

If god knows whether or not you're going to face eternal damnation before you are even conceived... why bother with any of it?

 

So cool. God knew I'd think his stuff was tripe and he PLANNED for me to think his stuff was tripe all along. Therefore god and I are in agreement.

 

Since I was damned before I was even conceived, why on earth would I strive for anything? Ever?

 

There's freedom in that. I like it.

[Cindy in FL.]

Joanne,

 

I just want to take this opportunity and say that I appreciate the work that you do. You obviously care about hurting people and have a genuine desire to help them. It takes a special person to be willing to enter into other's lives that way.

[mommymilkies]

As she takes more... Eventually....

 

See, these are steps on a road in my mind. She took each one. She could have stopped early on before her brain was changed too much couldn't she? Or are you saying that that first drink completely flipped a switch in her brain. I am pretty sure that at the beginning she could have easily turned back. But, she was unhappy in her marriage and already had some one else lined up.

 

I've been a drinker in my life. I know the good way that alcohol can make you feel. There can be a definite allure. She could have stopped, but she made a conscious decision not to.

 

 

You obviously did not read the exceedingly long thread about this very subject.

[Farmgirl70]

edited..was going to post something else, but this thread went way beyond where I was planning to comment....

[Catwoman]

 

 

You obviously did not read the exceedingly long thread about this very subject.

 

In Cindy's defense, this isn't some sort of hypothetical situation for her; this is her own mother she's talking about, so I'm willing to accept her interpretation of her mom's addiction. She was there to witness it, and I wasn't, so I really have no idea how or why her mom became an alcoholic, and I hope none of us tries to second-guess her on this.

 

I think it's a bit different with Joanne, because she is a professional in this area, but even then, it's a tough one, because it has to be an emotional topic for Cindy.

 

Maybe we should all go back to having fun talking about those madcap, zany folks at faithbasedboys.org. :D

 

And ever since ChocolateReign mentioned it, I have been thinking of them as a tacky boy band. ;)

[Mrs Mungo]

I do not disagree with the policy of allowing gay boys in the Boy Scouts as delineated.

 

Got it. :)

 

As far as Albeto goes, I don't see anyone agreeing with her. She often shares opinions that strike me as being...outliers.

[Cindy in FL.]

I promise that I read every word.

 

 

 

You obviously did not read the exceedingly long thread about this very subject.

[Cindy in FL.]

I'd say we should all just kiss and make up, but in the context it wouldn't be appropriate! :) I really think that by and large this is a great community of people. I also think that IRL you might even like me a little because I have a fairly good sense of humor and I really don't go around spewing hatred and leaving devastation in my wake. Honest.

[justasque]

*What really bugs me is the idea that keeping homosexuals out somehow “keeps our kids saferâ€, which is repeated over and over on the faithbasedboys site.

 

I think boys are safer in an organization that realizes that gay kids may be participating, and makes guidelines accordingly, rather than in an organization that assumes there are no gay kids there, and thus has no rules in place to handle various issues that may arise.

 

Any organization that serves youth in the age range of Scouting will find that some of the boys who join as young kids are going to grow into teens who experience same-sex attraction. It's naive to believe that you can somehow identify these kids before they join, when they're starting at age 7 or so. Parents who are counting on their kids' peer groups (from scouts, sports, classes, cousins, neighbors, friends) to be gay-free may have unrealistic expectations.

[Catwoman]

I'd say we should all just kiss and make up, but in the context it wouldn't be appropriate! :) I really think that by and large this is a great community of people. I also think that IRL you might even like me a little because I have a fairly good sense of humor and I really don't go around spewing hatred and leaving devastation in my wake. Honest.

 

You don't even leave a little bit of devastation?

 

Where's the fun in that? ;)

[Cindy in FL.]

That's my story and I'm stickin' t it!

 

 

 

You don't even leave a little bit of devastation?

 

Where's the fun in that? ;)

[NicAnn]

I just want to say, that I can't honestly tell you how I feel about homoesxuality. I know what the Bible says, I know what my religion says, and I know what my gay relatives say. I have reflected on it a lot myself.

What I do know, is that these BOYS are probably very conflicted. The world is not a welcoming place for gay boys, whether they are Christian or not. Arguing about it isn't what is helpful. Give them the ability and knowledge so they can either come to terms with their orientation or provide them a welcome place to pray and talk to God about it.

[ktgrok]

Exactly. I do not understand why homosexuals have been so determined to change BSA. It is a privately funded organization that set up its own set of codes. If you don't care for it, then don't join. You are perfectly free to organize your own private organization with its own code of conduct. I would have more respect for them if they had. I mean, it is kind of like me wanting to go join the public school PTA. I am not living that life, so I really have no place there.That analogy doesn't work. you don't join the public school PTA because that organization is about public schooling. The scouts is not all about heterosexual sex. It is about scouting.

 

Amen, but if the rules were already in place in one group, why didn't those that believe differently start their own group instead?It almost sounds like the arguments used in the time of racial discrimination. If that diner only accepts white people why don't the blacks just start their own restaurant. The idea is silly.

 

I am not Catholic, but I agree about BSA going in a direction that I disagree with. I think this is just the first step. We will not return in the fall.

 

 

I agree. All of us sin, but there is a difference when someone boldly lives a life of sin. I sin. My friends sin. We battle it everyday and try to overcome it. I will freely admit my sins to my dc. That is different than living a sinful life and saying it is not sinful.b

first, I've never ever heard anyone say that having an attraction for the same sex, aka being gay, is a sin. Yes, some people of certain religions feel that HAVING sex with the same sex is a sin, but as the BSA explicitly says that NO SCOUTS, gay or straight, are allowed to have sex, that really has nothing to do with this. These kids are NOT leading a "sinful life". They are celibate for heavens sake!

 

T

This! The Bible calls it sin, therefore it is. Believing it or not is my choice, but it doesn't change His opinion.

Which doesn't matter as the BSA isn't based on the Bible, and isn't a Christian group. It is made up of Hindus, Muslims, Jews, etc.

 

Yes!

 

But, that's just it. The Bible gives the answer.Again, this isn't a Bible based organization, that is what church groups are for.

 

 

 

Again, all that has happened is that children that have crushes on the "wrong" people won't be kicked out of a group that has NOTHING to do with romance anyway. turns out that gay children want to canoe and camp and fish just like straight kids.

[Farmgirl70]

I recently read a book called, "Torn" http://www.amazon.com/Torn-Rescuing-Gospel-Gays-vs--Christians-Debate/dp/1455514306/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1369445393&sr=8-2&keywords=Torn by Justin Lee. Lee tells his own story of growing up in a loving Christian home, discovering his attraction to other boys and grappling with what to do with that in light of what he had always believed. If you want an honest story that deals with issues of faith and homosexuality, check it out. He is very sincere in his desire to follow Jesus, and hearing his story was helpful in my processing my views as well. I have many homosexual friends and many of them express similar journeys. No matter what you believe, listening and respect are always appropriate.

[justasque]

What I do know, is that these BOYS are probably very conflicted. The world is not a welcoming place for gay boys, whether they are Christian or not. Arguing about it isn't what is helpful. Give them the ability and knowledge so they can either come to terms with their orientation or provide them a welcome place to pray and talk to God about it.

 

In their Points of Clarification on the new policy, the BSA says, "Youth are still developing, learning about themselves and who they are, developing their sense of right and wrong, and understanding their duty to God to live a moral life."

[Cricket]

To the original post, it does look like the group is just starting out. Probably an idea whose time has finally come. I know the BSA wasn't a Christian group but it has been a religious group. For a long time those religions have agreed on certain moral standards but things are definitely changing, for better or worse depending on your point of view. I'm sure this group will implement safety standards the way all childrens' groups have. Even the BSA had to start somewhere. I don't get where the "creepy" and "sense of dread" of dread comes in though and I don't see a hyperfocus on being anti-gay.

[mommymilkies]

In Cindy's defense, this isn't some sort of hypothetical situation for her; this is her own mother she's talking about, so I'm willing to accept her interpretation of her mom's addiction. She was there to witness it, and I wasn't, so I really have no idea how or why her mom became an alcoholic, and I hope none of us tries to second-guess her on this.

I think it's a bit different with Joanne, because she is a professional in this area, but even then, it's a tough one, because it has to be an emotional topic for Cindy.

Maybe we should all go back to having fun talking about those madcap, zany folks at faithbasedboys.org. :D

And ever since ChocolateReign mentioned it, I have been thinking of them as a tacky boy band. ;)

 

Well, then apparently she should have read the part of my mother being a reformed meth addict. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about and still find the line about addicts choosing their addiction to be at best, offensive. And it has NOTHING to do with scouting.

[Jennifer3141]

Well, then apparently she should have read the part of my mother being a reformed meth addict. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about and still find the line about addicts choosing their addiction to be at best, offensive. And it has NOTHING to do with scouting.

 

I cannot even imagine living through that. :grouphug:

[Joanne]

As she takes more... Eventually....

 

See, these are steps on a road in my mind. She took each one. She could have stopped early on before her brain was changed too much couldn't she? Or are you saying that that first drink completely flipped a switch in her brain. I am pretty sure that at the beginning she could have easily turned back. But, she was unhappy in her marriage and already had some one else lined up.

 

I've been a drinker in my life. I know the good way that alcohol can make you feel. There can be a definite allure. She could have stopped, but she made a conscious decision not to.

 

 

{{Cindy}}

 

I'd be happy to answer if you'd like.

 

But if you are expressing and processing your frustration and pain, and don't want a response, I can happily honor that.

 

None of my answers are meant to invalidate your pain as her child. The disease robbed you of your Mom, and of the relationship you had a right to. I'm so sorry.

[Jennifer3141]

I recently read a book called, "Torn" http://www.amazon.co...2&keywords=Torn by Justin Lee. Lee tells his own story of growing up in a loving Christian home, discovering his attraction to other boys and grappling with what to do with that in light of what he had always believed. If you want an honest story that deals with issues of faith and homosexuality, check it out. He is very sincere in his desire to follow Jesus, and hearing his story was helpful in my processing my views as well. I have many homosexual friends and many of them express similar journeys. No matter what you believe, listening and respect are always appropriate.

 

That sounds like it would be a GREAT bookclub book!!

[StephanieZ]

My opinion = all TRUE Christians believe the ENTIRE Bible therefore all TRUE Christians believe homosexuality is a sin.

 

:confused1: :banghead:

 

I just have to say, wowsers. Spectacularly amazingly shocking. Just when I think I can't be shocked, there it goes!

 

To have the "confidence" in your judgement of other professing Christians to not only type it out for all the world to see (and quote) for posterity, but to even highlight your TRUE judgments by YELLING them. It is just amazing.

 

I will now bite my tongue so as not to desecrate SWB's lovely board with my own impolite judgments about the very unchristian behavior of some people who profess to be Christians. And my other judgments about the limited intellect of people who have such narrow interpretations of such a complex and beautiful text as the Bible and such a complex and beautiful religion as Christianity. I'll also refrain from wondering aloud on whether those with such obviously limited understanding of the Bible have ever actually read it or studied it, or if they limit their studies to the Plain English versions of selected verses, as translated and interpreted by Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh . . . And, I will refrain from mentioning that this is a board dedicated to classical education, so maybe those whose intellectual interests are so limited might be better off on another forum devoted, perhaps, to, say checkers . . .

 

Bigotry is ugly. It makes you ugly. Those who cling to their bigotry will someday be ashamed when their grandchildren question them about this period in our history. Or, they will STILL be clinging to their bigotry, in which case their grandchildren will be ashamed of them and won't visit much.

 

Peace.

[Cindy in FL.]

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts. I know that you want to help and have a wealth of knowledge to share. It does break my heart that she died and our relationship will always be stuck in that place. It also makes me angry. Love those mixed up crazy emotions! I'll still filter things through my faith, but I wouldn't mind trying to understand the psychology better.

 

 

 

 

{{Cindy}}

 

I'd be happy to answer if you'd like.

 

But if you are expressing and processing your frustration and pain, and don't want a response, I can happily honor that.

 

None of my answers are meant to invalidate your pain as her child. The disease robbed you of your Mom, and of the relationship you had a right to. I'm so sorry.

[Catwoman]

Well, then apparently she should have read the part of my mother being a reformed meth addict. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about and still find the line about addicts choosing their addiction to be at best, offensive. And it has NOTHING to do with scouting.

 

 

Wow -- I didn't read the thread so I had no idea about your mom. :( That must have been absolutely horrible! I am always amazed when I hear about people who are able to find the strength to break free of their addictions and resist the temptation to start using drugs (or drinking, or whatever) again. The daily struggle must feel impossible for a long time.

[elegantlion]

In Cindy's defense, this isn't some sort of hypothetical situation for her; this is her own mother she's talking about, so I'm willing to accept her interpretation of her mom's addiction. She was there to witness it, and I wasn't, so I really have no idea how or why her mom became an alcoholic, and I hope none of us tries to second-guess her on this.

 

I think it's a bit different with Joanne, because she is a professional in this area, but even then, it's a tough one, because it has to be an emotional topic for Cindy.

 

Maybe we should all go back to having fun talking about those madcap, zany folks at faithbasedboys.org. :D

 

And ever since ChocolateReign mentioned it, I have been thinking of them as a tacky boy band. ;)

 

 

It's an emotional topic for many on this board. It's not just a topic on a thread or even something read about in a book. It's a real event in life for some, fraught with the scars, consequences, pain, and guilt.

 

Not just to Cindy, but to anyone who is dealing/dealt with a loved one with addiction issues, I would recommend looking into Al-anon for support. It may not be exactly what you need, it might, and it might help answer those lingering questions regarding the whys of addiction. Al-Anon can also be helpful in learning to separate the science of addiction and the consequences of it.

[Cindy in FL.]

I misunderstood mommymilkies when she said that I hadn't read the long thread. I thought she was talking about Joanne's post in this thread. I had not read the prior addiction thread and did not intend to offend her or anyone else in regard to addiction.