faithbasedboys.org ??? (not an unbiased post)

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

 

The BSA law references being "morally straight" and one of the BSA values is being "clean". The controversy is over whether that excludes individuals who identify with a homos*xual lifestyle and are vocal about it rather than keeping their private life private.

 

It isn't only Christians who have an issue with homos*xual behavior. There are plenty of non-Christians who do as well.

 

 

Gays aren't clean? Wow. Just wow.

And yes, gays can certainly be morally straight. Heck, the founder of the scouts was gay.

[Catwoman]

I just noticed that we are all starting to judge each other, and that is probably going to get the thread shut down.

 

What was the original topic again? ;)

[justasque]

I hear you. There is a difference between practicing and non-practicing homosexuals. I failed to acknowledge that and lumped them all together. I see that the BSA is allowing non-practicing homosexuals and I don't disagree with that stance. I don't disagree with that within the church, either.

 

 

Thank you for understanding my post.

 

I think it's key to read the actual statements from the BSA on this policy change (regardless of your (general "your") position), as there are nuances not made clear by the general news media.

[albeto]

Gays aren't clean? Wow. Just wow.

 

Depending on who you ask, gays are most certainly not clean.

 

And yes, gays can certainly be morally straight. Heck, the founder of the scouts was gay.

 

 

Well, they know better today.

 

:closedeyes:

[Guest]

Let's not get into that? I guess you know when you don't have an answer. Good game.

 

 

 

Something came up and I have a few minutes before we leave while I wait.

 

Your argument is very played out. That's why I didn't want to get into that with the lack of time I have. I did give an explanation, though. There is a difference between moral and ceremonial laws. Someone else can explain if you need further info, or I will get into it when we get back if no one else does.

[unfrumpable.]

I don't really want my son around people who refer to being gay as a "disordered attraction", so, I guess this change is a double win for me!

 

 

 

I have reached my "like quota" again, but I so like your post!

[Crimson Wife]

 

Ok. But when did you decide to be heterosexual?

 

 

I was attracted to boys since puberty. However, I chose not to act upon that attraction until I was an adult with my DH. I also have chosen not to act upon attractions I have felt to men other than my DH. The sin is not the attraction, but acting upon those attractions in a sinful manner.

[unfrumpable.]

My opinion = all TRUE Christians believe the ENTIRE Bible therefore all TRUE Christians believe homosexuality is a sin.

 

 

 

Oh my goodness.

 

Luanne, you are Fabulous!

[justasque]

 

The BSA law references being "morally straight" and one of the BSA values is being "clean". The controversy is over whether that excludes individuals who identify with a homos*xual lifestyle and are vocal about it rather than keeping their private life private.

 

It isn't only Christians who have an issue with homos*xual behavior. There are plenty of non-Christians who do as well.

 

 

The previous policy excluded scouts with same-sex attraction regardless of their actual sexual behavior and regardless if they did their best to keep it quiet at Scouts. The new policy info states that,"Scouting is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether homosexual or heterosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting." and that, "No member may use Scouting to promote or advance any social or political position or agenda."

 

The policy says that, "No youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone."

 

(All bolding mine.)

[albeto]

 

I was attracted to boys since puberty.

 

 

How did you decide to be attracted to boys and not girls? How did you train yourself to not feel emotional pleasure when a girl you were sexually attracted to paid attention to you? How did you condition your body to not respond physiologically to a certain kind of woman?

[Luanne]

 

That's not even an opinion. That's just dead wrong information you've been given.

 

 

What you are stating is YOUR OPINION. I am NOT dead wrong.

[poppy]

 

I was attracted to boys since puberty. However, I chose not to act upon that attraction until I was an adult with my DH. I also have chosen not to act upon attractions I have felt to men other than my DH. The sin is not the attraction, but acting upon those attractions in a sinful manner.

 

 

How lucky for you, that you were allowed to get married.

[unfrumpable.]

 

 

Just because they say that, doesn't automatically make it true. They have been conditioned to respond that way.

 

 

Wow, I didn't think you could get any more condescending (and wrong) than your last post I quoted.

[Spy Car]

 

 

I was attracted to boys since puberty. However, I chose not to act upon that attraction until I was an adult with my DH. I also have chosen not to act upon attractions I have felt to men other than my DH. The sin is not the attraction, but acting upon those attractions in a sinful manner.

 

 

That's not what it says in Matthew 5:28

 

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

Bill

 

 

 

[Guest inoubliable]

What you are stating is YOUR OPINION. I am NOT dead wrong.

 

 

No. You are wrong. That is a fact. Being gay is not a choice one makes. I no more choose to be bisexual than I chose to have blue eyes or ten fingers. Gay people no more choose to be gay than they do to have fingernails or nostrils.

[Mergath]

My opinion = all TRUE Christians believe the ENTIRE Bible therefore all TRUE Christians believe homosexuality is a sin.

 

 

I had to read this three times to figure out if it was satire or not.

 

Yes, I sure do. My mom was an alcoholic. Many would say that she was born that way, and to a point I would agree. I could agree that she had a genetic makeup which predisposed her to alcoholism. However, every single drink she took was a conscious decision on her part to do something wrong. She would say that she couldn't help it, etc. She could have, she just took the easier path.

 

Homosexuals may not choose to be attracted to the same sex, but they sure choose to act on those feelings.

 

 

Yes, because having to live your life alone to conform to the requirements of one religion is completely fair.

 

You know, comparing sexual orientation to crime or mental illness really doesn't help you make your point.

 

Nobody is perfect (obviously), but I try to live as close as possible to what the Bible says is the way to live. We aren't expected to follow Old Testament traditions. You aren't going to find me in my backyard sacrificing a lamb... sorry, isn't going to happen.

 

 

So you only follow the bible as long as it's convenient. I see. I guess hate and discrimination are pretty easy. Much easier than love and acceptance, which is probably why Jesus made such an effort to emphasize love. It's too bad that so many Christians ignore that part of the bible when it's not convenient, too.

 

Just because they say that, doesn't automatically make it true. They have been conditioned to respond that way.

 

 

You do realize that more than one of us on this post are either bi- or homosexual, right? When we tell you that it's not a choice, and we haven't been conditioned to say that, it's because we know from firsthand experience. Who in the world do you think does this conditioning, anyway? At the time and place I grew up, if I had admitted to being attracted to women, someone probably would have found my body in a ditch. If anything, we've all been conditioned to hide any kind of same sex attraction.

[Cindy in FL.]

You know who's not clean? The 20 yo guy (sone of a friend) who has been living in my spare room the past 3 months. He just moved out and I'm trying to decide whether the room is salvageable!

 

 

 

Gays aren't clean? Wow. Just wow.

And yes, gays can certainly be morally straight. Heck, the founder of the scouts was gay.

 

[StephanieZ]

I don't know if anyone has already linked this, bc I can't keep up with all these HOT threads, but I found this short video very inspiring and enlightening. (When did you choose to be straight?)

[justasque]

I disagree. Being gay is a choice, not an idenity like blue eyes or blond hair.

 

 

Interestingly, the Catholic church says, in Always Our Children: A Pastoral Message To Parents Of Homosexual Children And Suggestions For Pastoral Ministers (A Statement of the Bishops' Committee on Marriage and Family),

 

"...it seems appropriate to understand sexual orientation (heterosexual or homosexual) as a deep-seated dimension of one's personality and to recognize its relative stability in a person. A homosexual orientation produces a stronger emotional and sexual attraction toward individuals of the same sex, rather than toward those of the opposite sex."

[albeto]

 

 

Just because they say that, doesn't automatically make it true. They have been conditioned to respond that way.

 

 

Are all LGBTQ people are conditioned to react physiologically in certain ways?

 

Are all heteronormative people are conditioned to react physiologically in certain ways?

 

That would imply no conditioning would create the state of asexuality, is that correct?

 

If so, how do you explain the lack of consistency in the outcomes?

 

I'm asking because as a mother of a child on the autistic spectrum, I've been blamed for my child's socially inappropriate behavior by both strangers and close family and everyone in between. Their well-meaning advice isn't always helpful, however, especially when they're not familiar with autism. You seem to be familiar with human sexual behavior, including the emotional and physical responses, both instinctual and conditioned, and so you seem like a good resource to answer these questions.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Cindy in FL.]

Mergath,

 

Alcoholism is not a crime or a mental illness. Though in my mom's case I won't disagree that she committed some crimes and might have had some mental illness to boot. And, no, I don't think that's funny. I lived it and it wasn't the least bit funny!

 

Also, life is not fair. Never has been, never will be. Children die, cancer kills, accidents happen, people hurt us, the list goes on and on. So, some people, heterosexual and homosexual alike, will have to live life without a partner they love. I don't like that people are sad or that they hurt. I really don't. I didn't make the rules.

[kitten18]

 

 

Just because they say that, doesn't automatically make it true. They have been conditioned to respond that way.

 

Conditioned? Like an animal?

That is one the most offensive things I have ever read here.

[albeto]

I didn't make the rules.

 

 

Yeah, but you can walk away from rules that don't make sense, hurt people, tear families and communities apart, and inspire violence around the world.

 

Or you can try and defend them to the very people the rules try and break.

 

One of them is a compassionate response to the rules you didn't make.

[Mergath]

Mergath,

 

Alcoholism is not a crime or a mental illness. Though in my mom's case I won't disagree that she committed some crimes and might have had some mental illness to boot. And, no, I don't think that's funny. I lived it and it wasn't the least bit funny!

 

Also, life is not fair. Never has been, never will be. Children die, cancer kills, accidents happen, people hurt us, the list goes on and on. So, some people, heterosexual and homosexual alike, will have to live life without a partner they love. I don't like that people are sad or that they hurt. I really don't. I didn't make the rules.

 

 

Actually, it is considered a mental illness. And it's only a matter of time before someone compares gay boys to sexual predators. Again.

 

Life may not be fair, but discrimination is about people not being fair, not life. People can be fair if they choose to.

[Luanne]

 

:huh: That's called cross-dressing and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with sexuality or identifying with the opposite gender.

 

Watching Bing Crosby and Danny Kaye perform "Sisters" will now be even funnier now, though! Thanks!

 

 

 

There is a big difference between cross-dressing and just having fun like Bing and Danny were doing (not to mention the fact that neither of them were even wearing ladies blouses or skirts... they wore their own pants and shirts) just for fun. I know you know that, but it is nice seeing people pick stuff that doesn't even apply to make some kind of point.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

 

Actually, it is considered a mental illness. And it's only a matter of time before someone compares gay boys to sexual predators. Again.

 

 

Already done in the BSA thread that was closed.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

So, some people, heterosexual and homosexual alike, will have to live life without a partner they love. I don't like that people are sad or that they hurt. I really don't. I didn't make the rules.

 

 

That's not a rule. No one made that up. You can stop following it at any time and stop expecting other people to follow it, too.

[Cindy in FL.]

That would mean walking away from God and I don't consider that to be safe. As Martin Luther said, "Here I stand, I can do no other."

 

 

 

Yeah, but you can walk away from rules that don't make sense, hurt people, tear families and communities apart, and inspire violence around the world.

 

Or you can try and defend them to the very people the rules try and break.

 

One of them is a compassionate response to the rules you didn't make.

 

[Luanne]

Interestingly, the Catholic church says, in Always Our Children: A Pastoral Message To Parents Of Homosexual Children And Suggestions For Pastoral Ministers (A Statement of the Bishops' Committee on Marriage and Family),

 

"...it seems appropriate to understand sexual orientation (heterosexual or homosexual) as a deep-seated dimension of one's personality and to recognize its relative stability in a person. A homosexual orientation produces a stronger emotional and sexual attraction toward individuals of the same sex, rather than toward those of the opposite sex."

 

 

 

Do you really want to get me started on Catholics as well?

[SailorMom]

Everyone is always entitled to their own opinion. Obviously on this forum there will be a huge range of opinions.

 

Scientific knowledge has been increasing in regards to homosexuality, and it is clear according to that science that at least in a majority of cases, it is trait a person is born with. Argue with the science all you want, but those of us who are stating that sexual preference is not a choice are not just giving our opinion - we are sharing current scientific knowledge.

 

I think it has been well established that BSA is not a Christian organization, so the rules of the Bible do not matter any more than the rules of the Koran, the Buddhist beliefs, or my beliefs as a Deist when it comes to BSA policy. Well - they have mattered more, but they shouldn't. If BSA is choosing to accept all religious beliefs and all types of faith, then they should respect the values of all of the faiths and take them into consideration when forming membership standards. My faith does not allow me to pass judgment on or discriminate against someone for any trait they were born with (or not, for that matter) - be it hair color, skin color, or sexual preference.

[unfrumpable.]

 

 

Do you really want to get me started on Catholics as well?

 

 

 

I, personally, would love to see you get started on Catholics as well.

[Mergath]

 

 

Do you really want to get me started on Catholics as well?

 

:blink:

 

I call Poe's Law on Luanne.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

 

There is a big difference between cross-dressing and just having fun like Bing and Danny were doing (not to mention the fact that neither of them were even wearing ladies blouses or skirts... they wore their own pants and shirts) just for fun. I know you know that, but it is nice seeing people pick stuff that doesn't even apply to make some kind of point.

 

I think you're confused on what cross dressing is. You understand that it doesn't mean transsexual, right? It doesn't mean homosexual? That most people who cross dress are doing it for fun, or for art, or simply because they like the way boxer shorts feel or silk stockings feel? How is cross dressing at all sinister and not for fun or pleasure?

[Guest inoubliable]

 

 

Do you really want to get me started on Catholics as well?

 

Yes. Please.

[SailorMom]

I am cracking up over the 'mental illness' thing. This is very serious and I shouldn't be laughing, but I just can't help it.....

I'm going to go tell all the monkeys, dolphins, frogs, cats, dogs, birds, gorillas, etc., that the homosexual members of their species need therapy and medication.... Of course, the carnivorous ones may eat me if I say that - and I can't say I'd blame them.

[Luanne]

nm

Edited May 25, 2013 by Moderator
Check our posting guidelines, please.

[Mergath]

I am cracking up over the 'mental illness' thing. This is very serious and I shouldn't be laughing, but I just can't help it.....

I'm going to go tell all the monkeys, dolphins, frogs, cats, dogs, birds, gorillas, etc., that the homosexual members of their species need therapy and medication.... Of course, the carnivorous ones may eat me if I say that - and I can't say I'd blame them.

 

Just remember, it's not their fault. They've been conditioned to be that way. Or to maintain that it's not a choice. Probably both.

 

I wonder who goes out and conditions the gay frogs? You'd think someone would have noticed that.

[unfrumpable.]

 

 

YOU really have NO right to say I am WRONG. I can believe what I want and there is NOTHING you can do about it. YOU are not in charge of my life or what I think. YOU are very arrogant and I am going to report you.

 

 

She has every right to say she thinks you're wrong. Just like you have every right to say you think she's wrong.

 

I say pot-kettle-black for you here, Luanne.

[justasque]

YOU really have NO right to say I am WRONG. I can believe what I want and there is NOTHING you can do about it. YOU are not in charge of my life or what I think. YOU are very arrogant and I am going to report you.

 

Honey, please don't get upset about this discussion. If it's getting frustrating for you, take a break, hug your kids, do something else for a while. We're all just hsing moms here, trying to discuss various aspects of a current event with a group of smart, thoughtful moms who may or may not agree with us.

 

ETA - Ladies, Luanne is getting upset. Let her have a bit of time to reflect on this conversation. No need to push her further.

[Joanne]

Mergath,

 

Alcoholism is not a crime or a mental illness.

 

Um? Yes, it is.

[Luanne]

Honey, please don't get upset about this discussion. If it's getting frustrating for you, take a break, hug your kids, do something else for a while. We're all just hsing moms here, trying to discuss various aspects of a current event with a group of smart, thoughtful moms who may or may not agree with us.

 

Don't worry. I just put a bunch of people on ignore. Yes, I am going to get upset when people are constantly telling me "you are wrong". There is no need for them to try to start a fight with me... which is exactly what they were doing.

[albeto]

I would not mock them or be hateful and sarcastic about them doing so.

 

Unless they aren't heteronormative, because mocking LGBTQ kids is still socially acceptable to xians:

 

Girls/Boys - hey! I have a penis, but I like dresses and think of myself as a girl so by golly that make me a girl and I want in!

[Guest inoubliable]

 

ETA - Ladies, Luanne is getting upset. Let her have a bit of time to reflect on this conversation. No need to push her further.

 

It's cool. So long as she doesn't come out swinging at me again. That was uncalled for.

[Guest inoubliable]

Um? Yes, it is.

 

Thank you. I've reached my quota of likes so I can't like your post. But, thank you.

[mothergooseof4]

I have no idea but think it's fabulous that people are taking initiative to form their own associations. If the BSA had voted the other way, I'd think it fabulous that those it doesn't serve gathered to create their own associations as well. I would not mock them or be hateful and sarcastic about them doing so.

 

I don't think that site is affiliated with AHG, which I've found nothing to criticize about this year I'm pleasantly surprised to admit. My girls have thoroughly enjoyed it and are looking forward to doing it next year.

 

I'm curious about http://www.onmyhonor.net/whats-next/ and what if any result that will net.

 

I feel bad for our parish scout troop. It is very large and I suspect and hope they will no longer receive parish support. I would be quite happy to enroll my boys, pending interests and financial considerations, in an alternative, especially if it were a RC alternative. Tho to be honest, we've not felt a desire to do scouting since we gave it a trial run with our older boys.

 

Exactly. I do not understand why homosexuals have been so determined to change BSA. It is a privately funded organization that set up its own set of codes. If you don't care for it, then don't join. You are perfectly free to organize your own private organization with its own code of conduct. I would have more respect for them if they had. I mean, it is kind of like me wanting to go join the public school PTA. I am not living that life, so I really have no place there.

Christians should have the right to form a new group if the old group is now saying homosexuality is not a sin. Christians are entitled to have their religious beliefs.

Amen, but if the rules were already in place in one group, why didn't those that believe differently start their own group instead?

I knew the group wasn't Christian, but when it no longer meets the needs of people, they, and whatever assets they brought to the group, will go elsewhere. And they will be disappointed about it. *shrug*

 

That's it for me.

 

I personally think BSA has every intention of going further than this and plans to eventually promote disordered attractions as acceptable, so for me, there's not any point in staying on a morally sinking ship until my feet are actually in the water.

 

To me, it makes more sense to accept the inevitible obvious (to me anyways) and instead choose another ship sooner rather than later.

 

If I can find a ship that flies a Vatican flag, I'm going to be extra happy. :)

 

.....

 

 

Mild side topic...

 

It's doesn't matter what someone calls themselves, there's someone it doesn't apply to or wasn't intended to apply to. I've heard all this and more:

 

Roman catholic - oh hey, I'm RC but don't actually believe x, y, and z.

 

American - oh hey, canadians are American! Since when does America , a term used for two continents only mean United States?!

 

Girls/Boys - hey! I have a penis, but I like dresses and think of myself as a girl so by golly that make me a girl and I want in!

I am not Catholic, but I agree about BSA going in a direction that I disagree with. I think this is just the first step. We will not return in the fall.

 

You are entitled to this opinion. I, on the other hand, don't want my sons being told that anything goes. I do not want them being told it's ok to have relations with someone of the same sex or that if you don't feel like or want to be the gender you were born then you can just change that. I believe that if you are born a male, then that is what God intended you to be. That is not for us to decide.

 

I also don't want them to be influenced to believe that sex outside of marriage, adultery, lying, stealing, murdering, drunkenness, illegal drugs, etc. are right or good. Those are contrary to what I believe the Word of God teaches and I believe that, not the ever changing society we live in.

 

I also believe that disagreeing with someone's behavior is not the same as hating them. My sons are taught that everyone is made in the image of God and therefore has inherent worth and dignity. Truly loving someone means that you want the absolute best for them and I believe that God knows what that is, not us. There is nothing to be gained by going against His created order except for a temporary happiness.

I agree. All of us sin, but there is a difference when someone boldly lives a life of sin. I sin. My friends sin. We battle it everyday and try to overcome it. I will freely admit my sins to my dc. That is different than living a sinful life and saying it is not sinful.

 

I am adult enough to realize that not everyone agrees with me. However, this earth belongs to my Heavenly Father and it matters to Him what people do, so it matters to me. I will stand for the truth regardless of what people think of me for doing so.

 

Thank you!

 

He is. We disagree with what that means, though. Loving someone might just mean telling them a truth that they don't want to hear.

It often means just this. I don't think that Christians on this thread have spouted hate. We just completely disagree on the line between love and acceptance of sin. I love my children, but I will point out their sins to them because I am called to teach them the conduct by which the Lord expects us all to live by. I also want them to see their need for a savior....because I love them. Just as if I call sin "sin" in others it is not a hateful, spiteful action. It is because I care for them. Yes, I sin. But, I know my sins and battle them. I do not deny they are sins and do not actively dwell in them.

 

Let's not get into that. There is a difference between ceremonial and moral laws.

 

 

Here's a couple of New Testament verses for you, regardless:

 

 

Matthew 19:4-6

 

New King James Version (NKJV)

 

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.â€

 

 

 

Romans 1:24-28

 

King James Version (KJV)

 

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

This! The Bible calls it sin, therefore it is. Believing it or not is my choice, but it doesn't change His opinion.

We are to be kind. But we are to call sin what it is, not accept it as not sin. That's what people are missing.

 

Gotta run for now!

Yes!

Let's not get into that? I guess you know when you don't have an answer. Good game.

But, that's just it. The Bible gives the answer.

That's not what it says in Matthew 5:28

 

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

Bill

Ah, but there is a difference in being tempted and lusting. Looking at an attractive person may tempt you to lust, but you choose whether or not to commit the sin of lust. I may be somewhere with men wearing only swimsuits and notice a very attractive man with only trunks and no shirt. I choose whether to keep my thoughts to, "He is an attractive man," or allow them to wander into thoughts of touching, embracing, or imagining what other areas of his body look like which would be lust.

 

ETA: I do not hate anyone. I do not think that homosexuals or anyone else should be degraded or shamed. I do not go out in public looking for homosexuals to insult or mistreat. When we are around someone that is homosexual, I teach my dc to treat them with respect and consideration just as they are to treat anyone else including the man that is having an affair, the woman that has been very mean to us in our neighborhood, or the buy that is living in the depths of drug abuse. But, I do teach my dc that all of those things are sin.

[SailorMom]

The issue here is that there are little Cub Scouts who have been in scouting since they were in 1st grade. Then along comes puberty, and boom! they are no longer acceptable and have to leave scouting.

Most of the time it isn't about choosing to join a different group - it's about being kicked out of one you're already in or having to lie about yourself in order to not get kicked out.

[albeto]

That would mean walking away from God and I don't consider that to be safe. As Martin Luther said, "Here I stand, I can do no other."

 

So you've been conditioned to follow "rules that don't make sense, hurt people, tear families and communities apart, and inspire violence around the world," because that's more "safe" than modifying your religious beliefs to be, I dunno, not hurtful, not destructive, not violent?

[Jennifer3141]

I am cracking up over the 'mental illness' thing. This is very serious and I shouldn't be laughing, but I just can't help it.....

I'm going to go tell all the monkeys, dolphins, frogs, cats, dogs, birds, gorillas, etc., that the homosexual members of their species need therapy and medication.... Of course, the carnivorous ones may eat me if I say that - and I can't say I'd blame them.

 

I don't get the conditioned argument either.

 

So if you're born straight... you are just correct. But if you are born gay, you've been conditioned to be gay. I don't get it. You think Dick Cheney was secretly or unknowingly conditioning his daughter to be a lesbian? Matt Salmon? Rob Portman? These are all very straight-laced "traditional" men who fathered gay kids. How did that happen?

 

And approximately 10% of the animal populations on our planet engage in homosexual behavior. Why would they do that? How do you condition a gay lion? :confused1:

 

I have 6 female ducks. No males. I don't want to deal with fertilized eggs. I have two female ducks who frequently engage in homosexual behavior. But I didn't raise them any differetly than their clutch mates. I mean, they are ducks. We cuddled them all as babies. Because baby ducks are the cutest thing in the world. :laugh:

 

I can maybe in the teensiest sort of way see society conditioning some radical young feminists to consider a lesbian lifestyle. We have a lot of stupid "male" behavior on our planet and I can see a small argument that if you told young girls often enough that they can live their lives just fine and dandy without patriarchy that they just might consider it. Perhaps. But the men I know just watching enough, "Will and Grace" and then deciding that's what they really are?? Uh, NO. I do not know one straight man that would ever consider it. There isn't enough TV in the universe to make my DH suddenly think, "I want to make out with Brad Pitt!"

 

And even for those radical young feminists, I don't think the solution of stigmatizing homosexuality is going to work. End the ridiculously violent male behavior and you nip that in the bud right there. It is 2013 and we have American soldiers who think it's AOK to rape their fellow soldiers. It is 2013. Jesus hasn't walked around in Palestine for 2000 YEARS and we still have people who think rape is just fine.

[Jennifer3141]

Exactly. I do not understand why homosexuals have been so determined to change BSA. It is a privately funded organization that set up its own set of codes. If you don't care for it, then don't join. You are perfectly free to organize your own private organization with its own code of conduct. I would have more respect for them if they had. I mean, it is kind of like me wanting to go join the public school PTA. I am not living that life, so I really have no place there.

 

 

It wasn't the, "homosexuals" who wanted to change the BSA. I filled out that parent survey and I'm as straight as they come. It was the current participants who wanted a policy change.

[Joanne]

My opinion = all TRUE Christians believe the ENTIRE Bible therefore all TRUE Christians believe homosexuality is a sin.

 

This world view is one of the reasons sexual minorities live in a hostile environment.

 

That hostile life context is directly responsible for the misery dozens of adults and teens felt when they took their lives.

 

Having known, and more recently, counseled persons who suffer similarly, I can assure the reader that they didn't take their lives because of their sexual minority status but because of the violent, hateful, angry, stereotype believing and ignorant context in which many sexual minorities still live.

 

I can't imagine any higher power worth worshiping who would not weep over that reality, or who would not offer loving metaphysical embrace for those who concluded no other way out.