faithbasedboys.org ??? (not an unbiased post)

[justasque]

... I do not understand why homosexuals have been so determined to change BSA. It is a privately funded organization that set up its own set of codes. If you don't care for it, then don't join. You are perfectly free to organize your own private organization with its own code of conduct. I would have more respect for them if they had. ...if the rules were already in place in one group, why didn't those that believe differently start their own group instead?

 

The BSA did an extensive survey of its members, and found that, while opinions differed, especially by certain demographics (age, geography), there was ample support within the organization to make the change.

 

To quote the BSA's information regarding the change:

 

-- Views among parents under the age of 50 have changed significantly in the past three years, with a majority now opposing the BSA's current [old] policy.

 

-- Parents in three of four BSA regions oppose the current [old] membership policy.

 

-- [Adults in the Scouting community] ... are less likely to agree with removing a Scout from the program solely on the basis of sexual orientation as opposed to behavior.

 

[brackets mine.]

 

The BSA was not unified in support of the old policy. This change was supported by many people within the organization.

[albeto]

I don't get the conditioned argument either.

 

I used to speak "conditioned," maybe I can translate.

 

:)

 

So if you're born straight... you are just correct. But if you are born gay, you've been conditioned to be gay. I don't get it. You think Dick Cheney was secretly or unknowingly conditioning his daughter to be a lesbian? Matt Salmon? Rob Portman? These are all very straight-laced "traditional" men who fathered gay kids. How did that happen?

 

You're not born either way. You're born into sin (whatever that means, however that works), and a lifetime of experiences subtly condition a person to either respond positively to the opposite sex (yay, good), or the same sex (uh-oh, not good). Good parents make sure their kids are surrounded by more good environmental cues than bad. Good environmental cues include traditional gender roles, church, homeschooling, xian friends and family, wholesome entertainment that reinforces these values. Bad environmental cues include accepting non traditional gender roles (gay uncle bringing his partner to Thanksgiving Dinner), public school, learn why Harvey Milk was a hero.

 

People like Cheney's daughter sadly was inundated with more bad environmental cues than good. Too late for her. Old Dick has the option now to pity her or alter his understanding of human sexual behavior.

 

And approximately 10% of the animal populations on our planet engage in homosexual behavior. Why would they do that? How do you condition a gay lion? :confused1:

 

I have 6 female ducks. No males. I don't want to deal with fertilized eggs. I have two female ducks who frequently engage in homosexual behavior. But I didn't raise them any differetly than their clutch mates. I mean, they are ducks. We cuddled them all as babies. Because baby ducks are the cutest thing in the world. :laugh:

 

Animals don't count. They also lick their naughty bits to keep clean, even on the sofa, even when everyone is around. Doesn't mean we want our kids to think they can whip of their pants and flop around when a play-date is happening (or, ever, because masturbation is one of those bad environmental cues).

 

Hope that helps.

 

:)

[Joanne]

Unless they aren't heteronormative, because mocking LGBTQ kids is still socially acceptable to xians:

 

 

Unfortunately, current youth culture basically across the board does this. Using "gay" as a put down is quite common. Jokes about Justin Beiber, Maroon 5, and One Direction are all born of the same hate and homophobia.

 

It's sadly and strikingly ironic that in the midst of the so-called "Homosexual Agenda" we are in many ways moving backwards.

[Joanne]

I used to speak "conditioned," maybe I can translate.

 

:)

 

 

 

You're not born either way. You're born into sin (whatever that means, however that works), and a lifetime of experiences subtly condition a person to either respond positively to the opposite sex (yay, good), or the same sex (uh-oh, not good). Good parents make sure their kids are surrounded by more good environmental cues than bad. Good environmental cues include traditional gender roles, church, homeschooling, xian friends and family, wholesome entertainment that reinforces these values. Bad environmental cues include accepting non traditional gender roles (gay uncle bringing his partner to Thanksgiving Dinner), public school, learn why Harvey Milk was a hero.

 

People like Cheney's daughter sadly was inundated with more bad environmental cues than good. Too late for her. Old Dick has the option now to pity her or alter his understanding of human sexual behavior.

 

 

 

Animals don't count. They also lick their naughty bits to keep clean, even on the sofa, even when everyone is around. Doesn't mean we want our kids to think they can whip of their pants and flop around when a play-date is happening (or, ever, because masturbation is one of those bad environmental cues).

 

Hope that helps.

 

:)

 

Wow. I had to read, look at the username, read and process.

 

Well done. Onion worthy.

[justasque]

We will not return in the fall.

...

ETA: I do not hate anyone. I do not think that homosexuals or anyone else should be degraded or shamed. I do not go out in public looking for homosexuals to insult or mistreat. When we are around someone that is homosexual, I teach my dc to treat them with respect and consideration just as they are to treat anyone else including the man that is having an affair, the woman that has been very mean to us in our neighborhood, or the buy that is living in the depths of drug abuse. But, I do teach my dc that all of those things are sin.

 

Please reconsider whether you really need to pull your boy(s) from scouting.

I don't think you will find your local troop to be much, if at all, different in the fall than it has been in the past.

It is a good program. This issue rarely comes up in day-to-day scouting activities. And if it does, you are still free to teach your boy(s) what you see fit regarding the behavior of their peers, regarding sexuality or anything else (as is your job as a parent).

[Luanne]

 

It's cool. So long as she doesn't come out swinging at me again. That was uncalled for.

 

 

I'm sorry. I came out swinging at you? I don't think so. I voiced my opinion and stated it was such and you decided that was worthy of starting a fight with me. I never once said to you YOU ARE WRONG. You said it repetitively to me.

[NotSoObvious]

This world view is one of the reasons sexual minorities live in a hostile environment.

 

That hostile life context is directly responsible for the misery dozens of adults and teens felt when they took their lives.

 

Having known, and more recently, counseled persons who suffer similarly, I can assure the reader that they didn't take their lives because of their sexual minority status but because of the violent, hateful, angry, stereotype believing and ignorant context in which many sexual minorities still live.

 

I can't imagine any higher power worth worshiping who would not weep over that reality, or who would not offer loving metaphysical embrace for those who concluded no other way out.

 

 

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[Cindy in FL.]

Well God has my eternal destiny in His hands, so I'm not going to modify my beliefs to suit another human being. The Bible says not to fear the one that can kill the body, but fear the One who can cast you, body and soul, into hell. Now, I can understand if you don't believe that part of the Bible or any part of it for that matter, but I do.

 

 

 

So you've been conditioned to follow "rules that don't make sense, hurt people, tear families and communities apart, and inspire violence around the world," because that's more "safe" than modifying your religious beliefs to be, I dunno, not hurtful, not destructive, not violent?

[albeto]

Unfortunately, current youth culture basically across the board does this. Using "gay" as a put down is quite common. Jokes about Justin Beiber, Maroon 5, and One Direction are all born of the same hate and homophobia.

 

It's sadly and strikingly ironic that in the midst of the so-called "Homosexual Agenda" we are in many ways moving backwards.

 

I think there are two groups that use "gay" as an insult. One group is the churched kids who are conditioned to feel uncomfortable around non heteronormative behavior. That's an insult because it's comparing a strapping masculine man to a weak, subservient girl-girl.

 

The other is the up and coming internet-culture that is no more impressed by traditional arguments of appeal to god, appeal to tradition, than they are impressed by any other logical fallacy that is generally rejected. For them, using "gay" as an insult (or maybe more frequently, "fag," like 4-chan's use of "fag" as a generic suffix) is more about taking back the word. When a community no longer acknowledges the negative connotations of a word, it ceases being offensive. I think some people use this to reduce the offensiveness of the word simply by making it so common, it's no longer shocking.

 

Knowing the community of churched kids conditioned to feel uncomfortable and threatened by LGBTQ issues is decreasing every year makes me feel hopeful. I think by the time our kids have kids of their own, teasing LGBTQ people will be socially unacceptable like racism. It will still happen, but only in "safe" communities, not in public, and it won't be given privileged status in society any more.

[catz]

Exactly. I do not understand why homosexuals have been so determined to change BSA. It is a privately funded organization that set up its own set of codes. If you don't care for it, then don't join. You are perfectly free to organize your own private organization with its own code of conduct. I would have more respect for them if they had. I mean, it is kind of like me wanting to go join the public school PTA. I am not living that life, so I really have no place there.

 

I have not followed this entire thread. My son went to public school for 2 years. I did not allow him to participate in BSA because it was exclusionary to some friends we hold near and dear and he understood that. I'm straight FTR. I have no problem if people have exclusionary groups at their churches. It's when BSA had a school sponsored troop that was using school space and advertised to ALL kids that it became a problem for me. There were boys there that had single gender families that could not participate. And you could say the boys were welcome, but their parents weren't welcome. Engaged parents want to be involved.

 

As an alternative, we set up a Campfire group for a couple years for mixed gender mostly coming up with out own outings and activities (Campfire wasn't set up perfectly for us either, but they are inclusive).

[albeto]

 

Wow. I had to read, look at the username, read and process.

 

Well done. Onion worthy.

 

Ha!

 

Thank you.

[Cindy in FL.]

It is a substance abuse disorder and has mental and physical symptoms. My mother wasn't "crazy", she was a sinner who gave in to her desire to check out of reality. No one wants to call sin sin anymore.

 

 

 

Um? Yes, it is.

[albeto]

Well God has my eternal destiny in His hands...

 

Unless you were conditioned wrong.

 

Which is what people are suggesting about homosexuality, right? It *feels* right, but it's not. Just because you really really think something, doesn't mean you're right.

 

In other words, don't believe everything you think.

 

Or am I missing something?

[Luanne]

It is a substance abuse disorder and has mental and physical symptoms. My mother wasn't "crazy", she was a sinner who gave in to her desire to check out of reality. No one wants to call sin sin anymore.

 

 

That is so true, Cindy. Even churches now days want to just keep everyone happy and tell them what they want to hear rather than risking offending someone by teaching the truth.

[LucyStoner]

 

 

I'm sorry. I came out swinging at you? I don't think so. I voiced my opinion and stated it was such and you decided that was worthy of starting a fight with me. I never once said to you YOU ARE WRONG. You said it repetitively to me.

 

To say that there is a RIGHT sort of Christian is to say that there is a wrong kind. So you called scores of people wrong.

 

If you think that homosexuality is a sin or wrong that you your prerogative. It is also my prerogative to believe that calling love a sin or wrong is wrong. If you can't discuss the issue without getting emotionally wrought, I understand. But that doesn't mean anyone need tiptoe around stating their beliefs and values as strongly as you did yours.

[Cindy in FL.]

 

No. The eternal destiny of every single person ever born or to be born in the future is in the hands of God. I didn't think that up myself. The Bible also tells us that "There is a way that seems right to a man, but it leads to death."

 

We're on dangerous ground if we live by the motto, "If it feels good, do it."

 

 

 

Unless you were conditioned wrong.

 

Which is what people are suggesting about homosexuality, right? It *feels* right, but it's not. Just because you really really think something, doesn't mean you're right.

 

In other words, don't believe everything you think.

 

Or am I missing something?

[Luanne]

 

To say that there is a RIGHT sort of Christian is to say that there is a wrong kind. So you called scores of people wrong.

 

If you think that homosexuality is a sin or wrong that you your prerogative. It is also my prerogative to believe that calling love a sin or wrong is wrong. If you can't discuss the issue without getting emotionally wrought, I understand. But that doesn't mean anyone need tiptoe around stating their beliefs and values as strongly as you did yours.

 

I didn't ask anyone to tiptoe around me. I asked people to not flat out attack me when I wasn't even talking directly to them. Funny how it is me attacking (supposedly) when they are the one who started it.

[Joanne]

It is a substance abuse disorder and has mental and physical symptoms. My mother wasn't "crazy", she was a sinner who gave in to her desire to check out of reality. No one wants to call sin sin anymore.

 

She had a disease in which her brain, her literal brain, reacts to alcohol with a physical need and craving for more. As she takes more, her body senses she has "enough" feel good chemicals and stops making neurotransmitters to allow for a normal level of stability. Eventually, chronic alcohol use (which only happens in the body of someone who has the disease, and therefore the craving response) means that the person doesn't have a level of *natural* mood stabilizers. They begin to use/drink in order to not feel like crap.

 

The treatment is an ongoing constellation of brain changing activity, activity that *heal* the brain away from the craving response and towards production of mood enhancers. This can happen in many ways; engaged 12 step activity is an efficient way, as well as engaged religious/spiritual. Most people need that AND more.

 

Alcoholism isn't "sin" or moral character any more than cancer, diabetes, heart disease or arthritis. It just has more stigma and misinformation.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

No. The eternal destiny of every single person ever born or to be born in the future is in the hands of God. I didn't think that up myself. The Bible also tells us that "There is a way that seems right to a man, but it leads to death."

 

We're on dangerous ground if we live by the motto, "If it feels good, do it."

I wish I could like this post twice (and a few other things you have said so far).

[unfrumpable.]

I didn't ask anyone to tiptoe around me. I asked people to not flat out attack me when I wasn't even talking directly to them. Funny how it is me attacking (supposedly) when they are the one who started it.

 

 

No one is attacking you.

[Jennifer3141]

No. The eternal destiny of every single person ever born or to be born in the future is in the hands of God. I didn't think that up myself. The Bible also tells us that "There is a way that seems right to a man, but it leads to death."

 

We're on dangerous ground if we live by the motto, "If it feels good, do it."

 

 

That thinking fascinates me. Cool. So God already knew I was going to be a sarcastic skeptic before I was even conceived and thus hasn't expected more from me. Cool. I don't have to worry about following him because he knew before I was born that I wouldn't. That's really cool!

 

I get to hang out in h - e - double hockeysticks with the Goddess guilt FREE!!!

 

I don't know what religion this is but I like it. There were facets of Protestantism (just keep working and God will love you!) that I never understood but this path seems better in some respects. If I'm going to follow a god, I want to follow one who doesn't expect more from me than he already knows I can or will do.

[elegantlion]

No, if someone found out you were gay, they kicked you out of BSA. Now if a boy comes out before he's 18 he can remain a scout. This is particularly important for kids who've invested a lot of work in earning their Eagle and could have been denied it before this change in policy.

 

Yes, this was done in our area. A kid earned his Eagle and, IIRC, came out before it was awarded. He was kicked out of the troop.

 

Actually, it is considered a mental illness. And it's only a matter of time before someone compares gay boys to sexual predators. Again.

 

Life may not be fair, but discrimination is about people not being fair, not life. People can be fair if they choose to.

 

...And sadly people I know compared the above young man to a jailed sexual predator. In fact, the young man had more in common with her son who had recently reached Eagle himself. It's sad and made me ill to think that people are so afraid or misinformed about the nature of sexuality.

[Catwoman]

Am I the only one here who hopes that some of the participants in this thread never have to deal with finding out that one of their kids is gay? Because I can't even tell you how sorry I would feel for those poor kids. :(

 

 

[unfrumpable.]

I am curious to know what this means.

 

I think a few other people are too, but nothing has been forthcoming yet.

[HRAAB]

 

She had a disease in which her brain, her literal brain, reacts to alcohol with a physical need and craving for more. As she takes more, her body senses she has "enough" feel good chemicals and stops making neurotransmitters to allow for a normal level of stability. Eventually, chronic alcohol use (which only happens in the body of someone who has the disease, and therefore the craving response) means that the person doesn't have a level of *natural* mood stabilizers. They begin to use/drink in order to not feel like crap.

 

The treatment is an ongoing constellation of brain changing activity, activity that *heal* the brain away from the craving response and towards production of mood enhancers. This can happen in many ways; engaged 12 step activity is an efficient way, as well as engaged religious/spiritual. Most people need that AND more.

 

Alcoholism isn't "sin" or moral character any more than cancer, diabetes, heart disease or arthritis. It just has more stigma and misinformation.

 

Thank you, Joanne.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

 

No one is attacking you.

 

Bringing out the science is attacking, apparently.

 

So remember, if someone tells you "Millipedes have one million legs!" and you say "No, they don't. There is a rare species with up to 750, but they don't have one million.", then you are attacking their beliefs. We must leave them alone to believe forevermore that millipedes do have one million legs. To point out the misinformation is a big no-no.

[albeto]

No. The eternal destiny of every single person ever born or to be born in the future is in the hands of God. I didn't think that up myself. The Bible also tells us that "There is a way that seems right to a man, but it leads to death."

 

We're on dangerous ground if we live by the motto, "If it feels good, do it."

 

I understand what you're saying. What I'm suggesting is what if what you had been conditioned to believe, what you had been conditioned to understand as "God," is wrong. How would you know? LGBTQ are saying they *know* this is a normal part of their identity for them, it's not "disordered," or a matter of conditioning. Some Christians on this thread are suggesting they are wrong, even though they feel they are right. So... how do you know YOU are right? How do you know that the religion you follow, you *believe deep in your soul* to be right and true and good, really is?

 

What if the fact that your religion doesn't raise any red flags for you when it's pointed out that it encourages violence (evil?) against otherwise innocent people, is because you've been conditioned to ignore that and instead believe the feeling you have is indicative of the truth. This is the argument used against LGBTQ being "normal": a conditioned response to erroneously believe the feeling they have is indicative of the truth.

 

So, how do you know you're right but they're wrong, considering, according to this argument, you're both doing the exact. same. thing?

[elegantlion]

If your destinies really are in the hands of God, don't you believe he holds and loves gay people too? Those without sin should cast the first stone. Because if God loves us all (even the sinner), when you throw stones, you're hitting the hands of God. Ouch.

 

I don't believe homosexuality is a sin, I used to, change my belief.

 

However, even if you do believe it is a sin perhaps you should look into the sins of your own life first before elevating yourself to judge the sins of others.

[Guest inoubliable]

Am I the only one here who hopes that some of the participants in this thread never have to deal with finding out that one of their kids is gay? Because I can't even tell you how sorry I would feel for those poor kids. :(

 

You're not the only one. :(

[*Lulu*]

 

 

Bringing out the science is attacking, apparently.

 

So remember, if someone tells you "Millipedes have one million legs!" and you say "No, they don't. There is a rare species with up to 750, but they don't have one million.", then you are attacking their beliefs. We must leave them alone to believe forevermore that millipedes do have one million legs. To point out the misinformation is a big no-no.

 

I just wanted to stop and say how much I like you!

 

 

[HRAAB]

I wish I could say all this Christian love was making me miss religion, but I cannot tell a lie.

[Luanne]

 

Bringing out the science is attacking, apparently.

 

So remember, if someone tells you "Millipedes have one million legs!" and you say "No, they don't. There is a rare species with up to 750, but they don't have one million.", then you are attacking their beliefs. We must leave them alone to believe forevermore that millipedes do have one million legs. To point out the misinformation is a big no-no.

 

 

Bringing out the science? Flat out telling me numerous times NO YOU ARE WRONG... is not bringing out the science. It is personally attacking me and then you go and blame me for it saying I was the one who came out swinging. I wasn't even talking to YOU anyway so why start something with me?

 

 

 

Sidenote: Catwoman, if my child told me they were gay I would love them just the same. You don't have to agree 100% with everything a person does or is to love them unconditionally. Do you 100% agree with everything your child does?

[LucyStoner]

I didn't ask anyone to tiptoe around me. I asked people to not flat out attack me when I wasn't even talking directly to them. Funny how it is me attacking (supposedly) when they are the one who started it.

 

Sigh. If you disagree with someone, you are making a point and if they disagree with you, they are attacking you? Got it.

[poppy]

I have learned so much about this community from this thread. I'm amazed at the level of insult and condemnation that is tolerated towards gay members. It's pretty disheartening.

 

I am sure if there's been message boards 60 years ago, we'd be hearing the exact same arguments used against integration and interracial marriage.

[Catwoman]

Sidenote: Catwoman, if my child told me they were gay I would love them just the same. You don't have to agree 100% with everything a person does or is to love them unconditionally. Do you 100% agree with everything your child does?

 

I have no doubt in my mind that you would do exactly that, but I'm not so sure about a few others.

[*Lulu*]

 

 

Sigh. If you disagree with someone, you are making a point and if they disagree with you, they are attacking you? Got it.

 

Just wanted you to know I liked it all.

 

:)

[albeto]

I'm amazed at the level of insult and condemnation that is tolerated towards gay members. It's pretty disheartening.

 

 

I'm surprised anyone finds this surprising.

[albeto]

holy cow, triple post

[albeto]

whoa, double post

[Firefly]

That thinking fascinates me. Cool. So God already knew I was going to be a sarcastic skeptic before I was even conceived and thus hasn't expected more from me. Cool. I don't have to worry about following him because he knew before I was born that I wouldn't. That's really cool!

 

I get to hang out in h - e - double hockeysticks with the Goddess guilt FREE!!!

 

I don't know what religion this is but I like it. There were facets of Protestantism (just keep working and God will love you!) that I never understood but this path seems better in some respects. If I'm going to follow a god, I want to follow one who doesn't expect more from me than he already knows I can or will do.

 

 

Ah, but there's the rub: god made you to be that way, but expects you to deny who you are/how you were made or face eternal damnation. :huh:

[Dana]

I have learned so much about this community from this thread. I'm amazed at the level of insult and condemnation that is tolerated towards gay members. It's pretty disheartening.

 

I am sure if there's been message boards 60 years ago, we'd be hearing the exact same arguments used against integration and interracial marriage.

 

Check out newspapers and letters to the editor and editorials. Very similar...and you don't need to go that far back in time, unfortunately.

[LucyStoner]

There is zero point in this discussion really.

 

Pretty much everyone who is pro-equal rights will stay that way. A fair number of people like who are opposed to homosexuality will continue to shift to a pro-equal rights stance, usually when they have a child or relation who is gay. New generations will wonder why this is even an issue to debate. Discriminatory beliefs about gay people belong to an ever shrinking, ever aging population and in a couple of generations will seem as misguided and bizarre as opposing interracial marriage. People may not like it, but the evidence is overwhelmingly against discrimination holding the day here.

[LucyStoner]

And since it is pointless, I depart to make thai food for dinner. To heck with the chili I made, after reading this, I deserve homemade thai food.

[Catwoman]

 

 

Just wanted you to know I liked it all.

 

:)

 

Clearly, you are way too happy and cheerful for this thread. Next thing you know, your positive attitude is going to rub off on others and people are going to start being nice to each other. ;)

 

It's gonna be scary. :eek:

[SailorMom]

Speaking on "conditioning" - what about cultural conditioning? What are the odds that so many people become Christian in the US, but Hindu in India, and Muslim in Iran (for example)? I mean - I'm not saying anyone's faith is in-sincere, but look at the percentages.... Most people become whatever religion is dominant in the culture they grow up in. Well - at least on some sort of spectrum of the same religion (i.e. - some kind of Christian, some kind of Buddhist, etc., acknowledging the many different sub-faiths).

I tread lightly here, but again - from a purely statistical, mathematical point of view - most people here are Christians (or whatever) because of how and where they were raised....

So - doesn't this kinda, maybe make some people think that maybe, in a miniscule way, they could maybe, possibly be wrong? Even just enough to not want to condemn other loving humans??

I don't believe homosexuality is a sin, I used to, change my belief.

 

The most interesting thing to me about this is how fast public opinion changed and by how much. I can't think of any other public issue where this has happened so quickly.

 

I'm curious, then, if you'd be willing to share what caused you to change your mind about this? What is so different about this issue than the zillions of others where none of us ever change our minds. Hopefully, before the thread is shutdown...

[Embassy]

I think there are two groups that use "gay" as an insult. One group is the churched kids who are conditioned to feel uncomfortable around non heteronormative behavior. That's an insult because it's comparing a strapping masculine man to a weak, subservient girl-girl.

 

Are you just talking about North America? Because there are many countries in the world that have laws against homosexuality and those countries may only have a very small percentage of Christians (if any).

[Guest inoubliable]

No. The eternal destiny of every single person ever born or to be born in the future is in the hands of God. I didn't think that up myself. The Bible also tells us that "There is a way that seems right to a man, but it leads to death."

 

We're on dangerous ground if we live by the motto, "If it feels good, do it."

 

Which religion are you?

[*Lulu*]

 

 

Clearly, you are way too happy and cheerful for this thread. Next thing you know, your positive attitude is going to rub off on others and people are going to start being nice to each other. ;)

 

It's gonna be scary. :eek:

 

This thread makes me feel conflicted.

 

On one hand I love a good train wreck with a side of Bonquiqui-esq craziness.

 

On the other hand this is not a light hearted issue and it pains me that so many are being hurt in the name of Christ. Add to that the fact that many of us who are Christians do not agree on this at.all. and there is a level of frustration as well.

 

It is really hard to hold a drink with hands this full.

 

So I choose to put it down and grab a glass of something! (Preferably chilled and with a side of chocolate, my drug of choice. :p)

[Pawz4me]

I didn't ask anyone to tiptoe around me. I asked people to not flat out attack me when I wasn't even talking directly to them. Funny how it is me attacking (supposedly) when they are the one who started it.

 

You might want to go look back over your posts in this thread. You don't need to read them, just look at how very frequently you're posting in all caps. You do know in message board etiquette that's considered yelling, right? Done sparingly and selectively it can simply be for emphasis. But you're using all caps a lot. A whole lot. So being fluent in "message board-ese" I have to assume you meant it as yelling. That's by far the most glaring example of "attacking" I'm seeing in this thread.