Please help-- spelling for 2nd grader/difficulties

[LAmom]

My almost 8 yo is really struggling with spelling.

 

I use Spelling Power and R&S for my natural speller (4th grader). I tried Spelling Power with ds and started at beginning and got to 3rd list and he had no idea how to spell those words or even figure them out...I quickly got AAS realizing he needed some extra help. He has completed level 1 and almost done with level 2.

 

After a a lesson today on "oi vs oy" and him showing understanding, ability to spell key words, used tiles, wrote some, etc., this is the result of the sentences I asked him to write:

 

Sentence: Is the soil moist or dry?

 

His written answer: Is the soill moyst or grie?

 

 

Sentence: The snake was in the coil.

 

His answer: The snack was on the quoil.

 

Ok. Those are only 2 examples that made me frustrated today. He JUST did the lesson and showed understanding. This is pretty "normal" for him to majorly mess up words that he has shown the ability to spell in the past. I'm a natural speller and it has been very hard and frustrating to teach the AAS method. I don't know rules and I don't need them. I am assuming he needs rules.

 

Maybe I am using AAS wrong. Maybe I should try something else. Or maybe I should spend the summer reviewing level 2 again. We move on from lesson to lesson because he shows understanding. But, then he will write a word like backe for bake and gets himself all confused. He is not a great reader either, if that matters.

 

Any help, suggestions, curriculum that worked for you poor speller. An easier way to help him than AAS (I don't really like the program but can see how it is a good one, though not working AT ALL here).

 

Sorry so long. I'm so frustrated. I get that I need to be patient. I want to help him but am failing.

[Tanikit]

The thing that would worry me in the spelling your child did today is the "g" used for "d" and "qu" for "c" and "o" for "in" - did he hear you correctly, does he have comprehension problems and how is his handwriting? Is he just not paying attention - did he repeat the sentence after you before writing it down? Can he spell normal cvc words correctly or do you get these types of errors on them too? Does he rush dictation and does he check himself before he shows you?

 

Confusing oi and oy straight after a lesson on both can occur so I'd be less worried about moyst, but I would correct it immediately. The "ll" at the end of "soil" is also a fairly honest mistake and you will need to go over short vowel sounds with him again and that the "ll" is ONLY after short vowels. The "ie" at the end of "dry" is a legitimate ending (die, lie etc) for that sound, so he needs the rule explained to him again about when to use "y".

[LAmom]

I think he definitely has some struggles with learning. I repeated myself more than once and I speak loudly and clearly!! He just goes with whatever guess he has and really does not seem to be "getting it."

 

He can spell easy cvc words. But today during his pathway readers workbook exercise he wrote some sentences and spelled to -ot- 3 times! Then the 4th time spelled it correctly. I know there is an overall struggle (his reading is better than beginning of year though)!

 

Anyone have other spelling programs they love that don't cost a fortune? Are rules vital for kids that aren't natural spellers? Or could I teach him by drill and use R&S or similar?

[MerryAtHope]

My kids struggled a lot too. My oldest especially would add or drop letters like decorations with no rhyme or reason. In 4th grade, he once spelled ask "aic" because he thought the C could stand for both sounds at once and the i just because some words have extra vowels.

 

AAS did turn things around for him (I found it at the end of his 5th grade year), but know that kids who struggle like this are going to need lots and lots of review--much more than you as a natural speller would suspect. I review the phonogram, sound, and key cards monthly (one type each week). And I review all cards once a week for 3 weeks after they move out of daily review, before putting them in "mastered." Any missed card starts back over in daily review. And don't move anything out of daily review until he can answer the card or spell the word easily--without a lot of hesitation or second-guessing.

 

Marie's article on the Funnel Concept can really help us to see why just doing the lesson and seeming to understand it isn't enough for some kids--that doesn't equal learning, and they need to review that topic daily for a time. I like to do a step over a week. Day 1, I introduce the new teaching and 10 words. Day 2 I ask if they remember what we're learning--if not, I review the new teaching and do a few dictations. Day 3, same thing, add in some reinforcement words and more dictation. Day 4, same thing--stretch it out over the days so that each day, he demonstrates the concept with the tiles and talks it through so he gets visual, auditory, and kinesthetic review of the concept.

 

This kind of repetition is a great technique to use in other subjects as well--any time you see him struggling to remember or master something (math topics, grammar, history or science--anything can be helped by this approach).

 

Know also that it takes time to move from spelling individual words correctly to remembering everything in the context of a dictation sentence--that is harder and requires more automaticity. Independent writing is another step harder still. Here's an article on automaticity and how to help kids who struggle with this.

 

Besides the words that had schwa sounds from the beginning of Level 2, the last 2 lessons are the hardest ones in L2, and do take more time. I would add reading the word cards for the oi/oy words daily to help build up visual memory--use them like the word banks.

 

When he does make mistakes, help him to walk through them:

 

Is the soill moyst or grie? "There are 3 spelling errors, can you find them?" Praise for each one he finds. If he knows how to correct it or what's wrong, praise again. If he's not sure, walk through each one.

 

"When do we double F, L, and S at the end of a word?" (only after a single vowel. Do we have a single vowel?)

 

How do we usually spell /oi/ in the middle of a word?

 

For "grie," have him sound out *exactly* what he wrote, and see if he says "dry" or if he says "gry." Does he typically mis-pronounce the /d/ sound as a /g/? If so, I would address that. If not, he should hear and see his error her, unless he has some auditory processing struggles. If he does mispronounce them, I would walk through these sounds with him before moving on (help him feel in his own mouth where the sounds are made--/d/ with the tip of the tongue against the roof of the mouth a little behind the teeth, while /g/ has the back of the tongue against the roof of the mouth, and the sides of the tongue in back may be touching some of the back teeth as well. You can do this kind of thing in front of a mirror and have fun with it--keep it light as much as possible!)

 

You mentioned speaking loudly, which also makes me wonder about auditory processing issues for him. One thing that really helps is to turn toward your child so he can watch your mouth as you pronounce the words. This is especially important if your child confuses similar-sounding words. In people with auditory processing struggles, their ears and brain don’t work together 100% of the time, so watching your mouth helps get everything in sync. The sounds get “crisper†when they have the visual cue to go with the auditory.

 

If your child misspells a word because he isn’t applying a spelling rule or pattern, go back to the letter tiles to demonstrate. Don’t attempt to explain it all orally.

 

Allow for “lag time†while your child processes what you just said. After you explain something, allow a few seconds for the explanation to sink in.

 

Hold spelling lessons during your child’s best time of day, when he is best able to concentrate and least likely to be disruptive or shut down.

 

In order to keep making progress, it is important to work on spelling every weekday. Make spelling a priority and don’t skip lesson time.

 

Back to "grie"--once you walk through the /g/ vs. /d/ sound, then ask him what ways he has learned to spell the long /i/ sound at the end of a word so far. He's right that it could be spelled "ie" (like pie), but he hasn't gotten to that yet. He probably just forgot about the letter Y--which is one reason why reviewing the phonogram and sound cards frequently is important for kids who struggle like this. You want to keep those patterns on the forefronts of their minds.

 

For "The snack was on the quoil."--again, have him read *exactly* what he wrote. If he still says "snake" instead of "snack," read it for him--gently say, "I would read this 'snack.' Do you know how to change it to make it snake?" Then see if he does. If not, walk him through the changes--if he tries adding just an E, praise for the E, then address the /k/ sound. Walk through that rule again.

 

Anytime he misses phonograms or rules, put all related sound, phonogram,and key cards back in daily review.

 

That may sound like a lot, but just make that review part of the daily time, not something extra. It only takes a minute or two, and it really solidifies things for kids who struggle like this.

 

Similarly with "quoil," see if he says "coil" or "/kw/oil." Help him see and hear the difference if he doesn't recognize it automatically. Have him watch your mouth as you say sounds.

 

I think I actually spent 2 weeks on oi/oy with my youngest...I remember it was awhile. It's ok if you need to camp out on certain lessons for a time until they master it. It's ok to only get through one or two dictations and need to walk through each word and how to correct it. Let your child try to find mistakes, praise for any he can find, let him try to re-work the words with tiles and then re-write, praise for what he can do--and take a break when you and he are tired. Review the concept again tomorrow. He'll get it.

 

When he writes "ot" for to, have him point to each letter in order, say the sounds, and blend them. That should help him to see his mistakes there. The segmenting exercises that were taught in Level 1 are critical to use throughout, and will help with letter reversals like this.

 

HTH some!

 

Merry :-)

 

 

My almost 8 yo is really struggling with spelling.

 

I use Spelling Power and R&S for my natural speller (4th grader). I tried Spelling Power with ds and started at beginning and got to 3rd list and he had no idea how to spell those words or even figure them out...I quickly got AAS realizing he needed some extra help. He has completed level 1 and almost done with level 2.

 

After a a lesson today on "oi vs oy" and him showing understanding, ability to spell key words, used tiles, wrote some, etc., this is the result of the sentences I asked him to write:

 

Sentence: Is the soil moist or dry?

 

His written answer: Is the soill moyst or grie?

 

 

Sentence: The snake was in the coil.

 

His answer: The snack was on the quoil.

 

Ok. Those are only 2 examples that made me frustrated today. He JUST did the lesson and showed understanding. This is pretty "normal" for him to majorly mess up words that he has shown the ability to spell in the past. I'm a natural speller and it has been very hard and frustrating to teach the AAS method. I don't know rules and I don't need them. I am assuming he needs rules.

 

Maybe I am using AAS wrong. Maybe I should try something else. Or maybe I should spend the summer reviewing level 2 again. We move on from lesson to lesson because he shows understanding. But, then he will write a word like backe for bake and gets himself all confused. He is not a great reader either, if that matters.

 

Any help, suggestions, curriculum that worked for you poor speller. An easier way to help him than AAS (I don't really like the program but can see how it is a good one, though not working AT ALL here).

 

Sorry so long. I'm so frustrated. I get that I need to be patient. I want to help him but am failing.

 

[serendipitous journey]

This must be frustrating!

 

To be honest, I would toss it out on the special needs board to see if it rings any bells there. At 8 years old this may indicate a learning difference of some sort; or may not of course. It might be useful to get their ideas.

 

On the other hand, we bailed from AAS at 7 years old b/c my little guy just hated it and he kept reversing some sounds. Then I'd teach him and he'd do it with another sound in a later lesson. I've had much much better luck both with the Modern Speller (free google book, vintage, excellent) and with Evan Moor's spelling, which is what we're doing now. I think AAS is just a poor fit for some children. -- when we did Modern Speller, I assigned each lesson as handwriting copywork in the AM and gave it as dictation in the PM, noted problem words and added them to the daily lists until mastered.

 

ETA -- note that Modern Speller is a very cost-effective option. Follow it up with Wheeler's Elementary Speller. Here's a post with vintage spelling options ... another option is to look at Charlotte Mason style spelling, perhaps start with Simply Charlotte Mason's site.

[jetted4]

My understanding is that spelling rules (beyond the basic phonics) don't really start to cement for many kids until around 3rd grade. Depending on your son, it may be worthwhile to back off a bit and just work on phonics and strengthening reading skills for now and wait a few months to return to formal spelling rules instruction. You may find that he's more developmentally ready at that point - making the process less stressful for both of you :-)

[LAmom]

WOW, Merry! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer me. I appreciate the tips and insights you gave. I didn't realize AAS had helpful posts on their website answering many of my questions, too.

 

THANK YOU!