Processed Meats too Dangerous for Humans

[JessReplanted]

http://dreamhealer.w...an-consumption/

 

 

What do you all think about this?

 

I find it very disturbing. My kids eat lunch meat just about every day. :sad: I feel like I need to stop buying it.

But now I have to make a new plan for lunch.

My youngest does not like bread or peanut butter. Typically, lunch here is fruit, yogurt, turkey/ham, & cheese.

ugh.

 

Why can't food just be safe?

 

:banghead:

[NicAnn]

Oh yeah, nitrates are bad news. There are numerous studies about the amount of processed meat eaten and likelihood of cancer.

[Plateau Mama]

I heard about this seceral months ago. I started buying only meats foods w/o nitrates. You can get lunch meat w/o them.

[gardenmom5]

my son cannot have artifical nitrate/nitrite preservatives. I figured that out before I ever started him with his naturopathic dr by how he responded to the chemicals in his body.

 

there are artificial nitrate/nitrite free versions of the same meats.

 

I use the word artrificial because sea salt contains nitrates as well, but he doesn't react to them.

[mommymilkies]

Nitrates have been linked to cancer for years. I am very paranoid about it, and I never buy lunchmeat or anything with nitrates. Our walmart here (very rural) even carries it, so it's just about everywhere. I try to avoid processed meat altogether, though.

[poppy]

Pay more for better meats. If it means you eat less meat, or eat mess less often, it's worth it.

[Maplecat]

The sodium content of lunchmeat is very high. When I needed to watch my sodium, even Boar's Head low sodium ham was too much for me with two slices of bread.

[nmoira]

Just a heads up that "no added nitrates/nitrites" is not the same as nitrate free. "Natural" "uncured" cured meats often (usually?) still have nitrates. Ingredients like celery juice or beet juice are the tip off there are "natural" added nitrates/nitrates in your meat, often as much or more as in the regular products.

 

Nitrates have been linked to cancer for years.

 

This. We generally avoid them to the greatest extent practically possible, but we do occasionally have good salami or the like.

[Orthodox6]

ALL processed meats? Hardly.

 

I abandoned artificial nitrates and nitrites in deli meats years ago -- without abandoning deli meats for my family. The naturally-occuring forms (such as that mentioned already for salt) do not worry me. Nor do they appear to worry the health-safety-conscious. Look for brands such as Applegate or Diestel.

 

Recently, I have read concerns about smoked meats (whether containing added nitrates/nitrites or not). My learning curve goes in that direction, but I do not yet know enough to make a decision.

[gardenmom5]

ALL processed meats? Hardly.

 

I abandoned artificial nitrates and nitrites in deli meats years ago -- without abandoning deli meats for my family. The naturally-occuring forms (such as that mentioned already for salt) do not worry me. Nor do they appear to worry the health-safety-conscious. Look for brands such as Applegate or Diestel.

 

there are many brands. if you have a whole foods or trader joe's - they will have a good selection. even some of the "regular" brands in regular grocery stores in some areas are coming out with 'natural' meats.

I have no problem with naturally occuring nitrates. my son will react within hours to consuming artificial nitrates. the more he comsumes, the more he reacts (that was my tip-off there was something wrong with them.) and the longer it takes him to come down. He can pig out on natural meats (whether they use sea salt, celery juice, etc.) and after two years of using them I've yet to see any reaction.

[nmoira]

I abandoned artificial nitrates and nitrites in deli meats years ago -- without abandoning deli meats for my family. The naturally-occuring forms (such as that mentioned already for salt) do not worry me. Nor do they appear to worry the health-safety-conscious.

 

The nitrite (-NO2) produced by the interaction of the celery/beet juice, salt and meat is chemically identical to nitrite added to regular meats and produces nitrosamines (which is what we're really concerned about) in exactly the same manner. "No added nitrates/ites" is nothing more than the "appeal to nature" fallacy reinforced by perfectly legal deceptive labeling.

[gardenmom5]

The nitrite (-NO2) produced by the interaction of the celery/beet juice, salt and meat is chemically identical to nitrite added to regular meats and produces nitrosamines (which is what we're really concerned about) in exactly the same manner. "No added nitrates/ites" is nothing more than the "appeal to nature" fallacy reinforced by perfectly legal deceptive labeling.

you'd probably also be interested in the new information on all the folic acid supplements/food additives. folic acid (in that form) does NOT occur in nature and the body 'expends' more to use it than the benefits the body receives from ingesting it.

 

folinic aicd (yes, there is a difference. I had to spell it out to someone recently, so sorry if I sound redundant.) is what we should be recieving. it's the form of folate our bodies actually use, and is actually the form found naturally in food.

[mommymilkies]

I thought methylfolate was also ideal? That way it is more readily usable by the body for some people.

[mommymilkies]

I thought methylfolate was also ideal? That way it is more readily usable by the body for some people.

[Orthodox6]

The nitrite (-NO2) produced by the interaction of the celery/beet juice, salt and meat is chemically identical to nitrite added to regular meats and produces nitrosamines (which is what we're really concerned about) in exactly the same manner. "No added nitrates/ites" is nothing more than the "appeal to nature" fallacy reinforced by perfectly legal deceptive labeling.

 

Thanks! I'm glad to know this. Another question, though. Does it not help that the total quantity of the substance is very reduced in comparison with "typical" meats? Perhaps even down to a negligible level? Can you point me toward some reliable info? Thank you in advance.

[nmoira]

you'd probably also be interested in the new information on all the folic acid supplements/food additives. folic acid (in that form) does NOT occur in nature and the body 'expends' more to use it than the benefits the body receives from ingesting it.

 

I was under the impression supplements have a higher bioavailability than folates in food, and I haven't seen anything to the contrary. Do you have a link?

 

Regardless, I don't see how research on things that are similar but not chemically identical has a bearing on things that are chemically identical. :confused:

[NicAnn]

I also didnt know that. Would love any links, so the research freak inside me can be occupied for hours...

[gardenmom5]

I thought methylfolate was also ideal? That way it is more readily usable by the body for some people.

there are multiple forms of folate the body uses. methylfolate is one. folinic acid is another. I have two sons on prescrition levels of both methyltetrahydrofolate and folinic acid.

 

as for the methylfolate, be sure to check your form because not all are created equal. here's a great site for reading up on them. the guy is a pioneer in the field, and I was able to listen to him a couple weeks ago. for 1 1/2 hours he NEVER stopped talking as he was trying to share everything. sometimes very close label reading is required because the manufacturer will be misleading as to the type. for otc mthf, I only use thorne.

[Word Nerd]

The study did not say what the title of this post does. Here is the World Cancer Research Fund's response:

 

"The articles talking about processed meat being 'too dangerous for human consumption' are unhelpful and scaremongering. We would say that if people can't cut out processed meat completely they should cut down. WCRF International advocates a sensible, healthy, balanced diet."

[nmoira]

Thanks! I'm glad to know this. Another question, though. Does it not help that the total quantity of the substance is very reduced in comparison with "typical" meats? Perhaps even down to a negligible level? Can you point me toward some reliable info? Thank you in advance.

 

It would help, but that's not necessarily what's happening here.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/business/02hotdog.html

 

Cooks Illustrated ran tests on different kinds of bacon, but the article is only available to subscribers. They found some brands of "no nitrate added bacon" had significantly more nitrites than the regular bacon.

[Orthodox6]

No time this evening to explore the topic further. Just stopped by to remind everybody, including myself, that all studies are funded by somebody with an agendum to further. Let's try to find out who is funding which answers.

[Sara in AZ]

Hold the phone, folks! I've been avoiding nitrates for a long time and I just dug the packaging out of the trash from the Applegate turkey bacon we had this morning. Nmoira, so you are saying that the sea salt and celery powder listed in the ingredients is chemically the same as nitrates. GardenMom5, you are saying that your son can eat these chemically identical ingredients without reacting. But the natural ingredients are still dangerous and should be avoided? Clear this up for me, please!

[gardenmom5]

I was under the impression supplements have a higher bioavailability than folates in food, and I haven't seen anything to the contrary. Do you have a link?

 

Regardless, I don't see how research on things that are similar but not chemically identical has a bearing on things that are chemically identical. :confused:

 

since you had an interest in the chemical properties of things we ingest, I'd thought you might find it interesting to add to a wider understanding of nutrient/food biochemistry. if I was wrong, I apologize and feel free to disregard the post.

 

supplements vary WIDELY in bioavailability. some are the form your body uses, some your body has to convert to the form your body uses. (if your liver has to convert the supplement, there are then waste products your body has to get rid of.) some supplements you get almost nothing from and are a complete waste of money. e.g. if a label says .b9. and NOTHING else - I pass it up immediately because there is a huge difference in forms of b9. they're technically b9, but some your body can use, and some it can't. if a manufacturer doesn't put the form on the lable, chances are extremely high they're using a cheap form your body won't/will-hardly use.

 

with folic acid, your body has to use nutrients to convert. so you're actually *losing* nutrients when you eat it. the guy (he is a pioneer in this field. mthfr.net. lectures to many drs groups. he spoke to our autism group.) I linked to in a pp thinks the form folic acid in food should be BANNED because he considers it so unhealthy. folic acid *isn't* chemically identical to folinic acid. (but those who market it would have people think it is.) that was the point. he get's into the methylfolate forms on the page I linked and why some are good, and some are to be avoided. and why. (it helps if you've taken organic chemistry. ;p)

 

I also had the depressing information from him - if you've had your gallbladder out, you cannot store B12.

 

eta: dr lynch started getting interested in this in medical school when the mehtylation cycle came up. almost nothing was known about it, but it fascinated him and he wanted to know more. some of what he has learned and put into practice with his patients has totally changed their lives for the better. (I've a ND who uses this information on my asd son and the differences have been phenomenal.) he has scaled back his clinic as he wants more time for research. the guy lives and breaths this.

[nmoira]

Celery powder contains nitrates. Some of these are converted to nitrites in reaction with the salt in the meat. These nitrites are chemically identical to those added to regular meats.

 

The evidence supporting the link of nitrites to cancer is suggestive but not overwhelming. Processed meats are not the only sources in our diet. This is an area to exercise caution, but not panic. :)

[gardenmom5]

Hold the phone, folks! I've been avoiding nitrates for a long time and I just dug the packaging out of the trash from the Applegate turkey bacon we had this morning. Nmoira, so you are saying that the sea salt and celery powder listed in the ingredients is chemically the same as nitrates. GardenMom5, you are saying that your son can eat these chemically identical ingredients without reacting. But the natural ingredients are still dangerous and should be avoided? Clear this up for me, please!

nmoira's information is the first I've heard about naturally occuring nitrates being bad.

yes - my son will react within hours of ingesting artificial nitrates, and has no reaction with naturally occuring nitrates. we do blood work on him every year with a naturopath, including checking the levels of the things that nitrates in the body stress.

[nmoira]

 

nmoira's information is the first I've heard about naturally occuring nitrates being bad.

yes - my son will react within hours of ingesting artificial nitrates, and has no reaction with naturally occuring nitrates. we do blood work on him every year with a naturopath, including checking the levels of the things that nitrates in the body stress.

 

But we're talking about different things. :) I'm taking about the nitrites forming nitrosamines, which are suspected carcinogens. Some people have our claim a sensitivity to added nitrates and nitrites. These are different issues.

[Cricket]

Dating have time to read the linked article, but for lunches you can make your own chicken salad with leftover chicken, egg salad or tuna for lunches. Quesadillas and grilled cheese are quick and easy too.

[gardenmom5]

But we're talking about different things. :) I'm taking about the nitrites forming nitrosamines, which are suspected carcinogens. Some people have our claim a sensitivity to added nitrates and nitrites. These are different issues.

you might still find his information on the methylation cycle interesting as it could also explain if/how/why the nitrates are doing bad things in the background. what systems are they interrupting/derailing. the biochemistry in our bodies are so fine tuned and subtle. it's really fascinating and it is so important to the functioning of our bodies, and only the surface on understanding it has been scratched.

 

you can almost compare it to semmelweiss and pastuer. semmelweiss pointed out the connection between washing hands and purperal fever, not the "why" they were connected. that only came later. there have been those expressing concerns for all the artificial chemcial additives and other stuff in foods, and what he trying to do is the show the "why" in a lab setting. (why some react and some don't) and how to change it.

[Firefly]

So, the nitrates in celery powder and celery juice alone are not bad? Does raw celery and/or celery seed (the spice) also contain nitrates? Just trying to figure it all out.

[Spy Car]

 

 

The nitrite (-NO2) produced by the interaction of the celery/beet juice, salt and meat is chemically identical to nitrite added to regular meats and produces nitrosamines (which is what we're really concerned about) in exactly the same manner. "No added nitrates/ites" is nothing more than the "appeal to nature" fallacy reinforced by perfectly legal deceptive labeling.

 

Exactly correct!

 

There is nothing different between nitrates coming out of a bottle, and nitrates formed by adding celery juice and lactic acid together so they form nitrates.

 

Trader Joes, and companies like them, are perpetrating a fraud on the public with their legal, but deceptive, food labeling.

 

As you say, "no added nitrates" DOES NOT MEAN "no nitrates." "No added nitrates" is a lie.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

So, the nitrates in celery powder and celery juice alone are not bad? Does raw celery and/or celery seed (the spice) also contain nitrates? Just trying to figure it all out.

 

Celery juice (or powder) is mixed with lactic acid. When that happens nitrates are formed. These nitrates are nitrates. There is no such thing as "natural nitrates" or healthier nitrates."

 

Bill

[nmoira]

So, the nitrates in celery powder and celery juice alone are not bad? Does raw celery and/or celery seed (the spice) also contain nitrates? Just trying to figure it all out.

 

Carrots and spinach too, though levels for all depend on the soil. That's why you're not supposed to feed babies carrots unless you know what kind of soil they're grown in... but this is also a separate issue than any cancer risk.

 

It's not that the nitrates themselves are good or bad , because it's nitrosamines that are potentially worrisome. I'm about to make dinner, but I'll see what I can dig up for you later.

[Firefly]

I understand that regardless of the source, a nitrate is a nitrate. What I'm asking is if celery juice, powder, or seed on their own also contain nitrates/nitrites. But it sounds like it's the mixing with lactic acid that creates the nitrates.

 

I use celery seed in cooking so that's why I asked.

[Spy Car]

Hold the phone, folks! I've been avoiding nitrates for a long time and I just dug the packaging out of the trash from the Applegate turkey bacon we had this morning. Nmoira, so you are saying that the sea salt and celery powder listed in the ingredients is chemically the same as nitrates. GardenMom5, you are saying that your son can eat these chemically identical ingredients without reacting. But the natural ingredients are still dangerous and should be avoided? Clear this up for me, please!

 

 

You are the victim of a (inexplicably legal) fraud. I think it is unconscionable that we are being deceived by these companies and bad food labeling laws.

 

Bill

[Firefly]

Carrots and spinach too, though levels for all depend on the soil. That's why you're not supposed to feed babies carrots unless you know what kind of soil they're grown in... but this is also a separate issue than any cancer risk.

 

It's not that the nitrates themselves are good or bad , because it's nitrosamines that are potentially worrisome. I'm about to make dinner, but I'll see what I can dig up for you later.

 

 

 

Oops, we posted at the same time! Thanks, I really appreciate that. :)

[LostSurprise]

Cooks Illustrated ran tests on different kinds of bacon, but the article is only available to subscribers. They found some brands of "no nitrate added bacon" had significantly more nitrites than the regular bacon.

 

 

 

My son's on a special high fat diet, and at one time we bought organic meat from a farm and had it processed without artificial nitrates. Since it didn't make much difference to him personally I talked to the butcher about the process. "Natural" processed meats use a vegetable based nitrate (not a chemical one) BUT the butcher told us that often a lot of "natural" nitrate has to be used in order to get the same effect. It usually turns out that there is more nitrate in a "natural" processed meat than in a chemically processed meat.

 

If you know someone that is effected by chemically processed meat (chemically processed is not not a new thing by the way..saltpeter was originally used and in a greater amount than is currently standard) I would recommend looking at the list of preservatives. That is the other thing effected by a natural label.

[jen3kids]

I know the farmer I get our pork and beef from switched to a 'natural nitrate' curing process and I think the bacon and smoked hams are nasty! But I guess it is what we've gotten used to. The 'nitrate-free' meat from Trader Joe's tastes a lot different to me, as well.

 

I'd heard that 'natural nitrates' were just as bad as the artificial ones, but I haven't done any research on it. This is a very informative chat - thank you.

[twoxcell]

I really don't know the difference between chemical nitrates and the supposed natural ones but my daughter reacts very badly to chemical nitrates, so I buy products that say natural and have celery and they do not bother her. The last time she had a regular hotdog we were at a party and she came over to me with a white face and layed on my lap(she was completely out of it and everyone was worried about her.) We brought her home and she immediately vomited and layed on the coach. I realized at that point that every time she had eaten a hotdog she had gotten sick and vomited, and each reaction was worse. We rarely ate hotdogs so it stood out to me. Now if we get hotdogs I get the Oscar Myer natural ones and she is fine. She can tell by the smell of the hotdog at a party if it is safe to eat. lol

[nmoira]

So, the nitrates in celery powder and celery juice alone are not bad? Does raw celery and/or celery seed (the spice) also contain nitrates? Just trying to figure it all out.

 

Sources of nitrosamines:

* Foods containing nitrosamines/ides include processed/cured meats, beer, and certain relatively exotic mushrooms.

* Nitrosamines/ides can be produced in your digestive tract when nitrites interact with some foods traveling through. These nitrites can either be ingested directly or converted during digestion from nitrates.

 

The question of how much nitrate in veggies and water eventually ends up as nitrosamines/ides doesn't have an answer I can find. However, we knows that nitrosamines/ides cause stomach cancer in animals, and possibly humans. Vegetarians tend to consume many more nitrates from veggies and have a *lower* risk of stomach cancer than the general population.

[Catwoman]

I'm a big believer in moderation, so I'm not going to panic and vow to never eat any of these products ever again. I wouldn't eat them every single day of my life, but if we have some sandwiches with cold cuts in them every now and then, I will be just fine with that.

 

I know that there are many people who eat nothing but nutritious foods for every single meal, every single day, but I'm not one of them. I try to be sure my family eats pretty well most of the time, but I'm not anti-junk foods or anti-soda or anti-cupcakes, either.

 

And I think it may actually be Un-American to be anti-bacon. :eek:

 

 

[nmoira]

I really don't know the difference between chemical nitrates and the supposed natural ones but my daughter reacts very badly to chemical nitrates, so I buy products that say natural and have celery and they do not bother her. The last time she had a regular hotdog we were at a party and she came over to me with a white face and layed on my lap(she was completely out of it and everyone was worried about her.) We brought her home and she immediately vomited and layed on the coach. I realized at that point that every time she had eaten a hotdog she had gotten sick and vomited, and each reaction was worse. We rarely ate hotdogs so it stood out to me. Now if we get hotdogs I get the Oscar Myer natural ones and she is fine. She can tell by the smell of the hotdog at a party if it is safe to eat. lol

 

Have you noticed this in other foods to which nitrates are added? There's all sorts of stuff is added to hot dogs, and those that are "uncured" (i.e. no "added nitrates/ites" also tend to have a shorter ingredient list, probably because the person buying them is going to be reading the label.

 

Here's what's in Ball Park Franks:

 

Aside from mechanically separated turkey, pork, paprika extractives, and beef stock, we have:

 

Potassium lactate: Made from neutralized lactic acid, it’s a common meat preservative because of its properties as an antimicrobial, capable of killing off harmful bacteria.

 

Sodium phosphates: Any of three sodium salt of phosphoric acids that can be used as a food preservative or to add texture.

Flavorings: Under current U.S. Food and Drug Administration guidelines, most combinations of flavoring agents are okay to just be listed as "flavor" rather spelled out individually.

 

Sodium diacetate: A combination of sodium acetate and acetic acid, it helps to fight fungus and bacterial growth and is often used as an artificial flavor for salt and vinegar chips—and in the sodium acetate form, it’s found in instant hand warmers.

 

Sodium erythorbate: A sodium salt of erythorbic acid, it has replaced the use of sulfites in many foods and serves as a preservative and to help keep meat-based products pink. Some people report side effects, including dizziness, gastrointestinal issues, headaches and, if consumed in large quantities, kidney stones.

 

Maltodextrin: A compound made from cooked starch (often corn in the U.S. and wheat in Europe) that is used as a filler or thickening agent in processed foods. Brewers also often use it in beer.

 

Sodium nitrate: This common preservative helps meats retain their color and also keep foodborne illnesses, such as botulism, to a minimum. Animal studies have linked sodium nitrates to an increased risk of cancer. It’s also frequently found in fertilizers and, yes, fireworks.

 

ETA: Here are the ingredients for Oscar Meyer Naturals:

 

INGREDIENTS: Beef, Water, Contains Less than 2% of Sea Salt,Potassium Lactate (from Corn), Evaporated Cane Juice, Celery Powder, Flavor, Lactic Acid Starter Culture.

[twoxcell]

Have you noticed this in other foods to which nitrates are added? There's all sorts of stuff is added to hot dogs, and those that are "uncured" (i.e. no "added nitrates/ites" also tend to have a shorter ingredient list, probably because the person buying them is going to be reading the label.

 

Here's what's in Ball Park Franks:

 

Aside from mechanically separated turkey, pork, paprika extractives, and beef stock, we have:

I really don't know it was mainly hotdogs that I noticed, but I intentionally buy natural bacon, lunch meat, hotdogs, pepperoni, and sausage now. I like that the ones that have natural nitrates/uncured also have shorter ingredients lists. I could be anyone of those additives.

[nmoira]

I like that the ones that have natural nitrates/uncured also have shorter ingredients lists.

 

This is precisely we buy these or dry cured meats.

[Donna]

But now I have to make a new plan for lunch.

My youngest does not like bread or peanut butter. Typically, lunch here is fruit, yogurt, turkey/ham, & cheese.

ugh.

 

Why can't food just be safe?

 

 

I boil or grill 5lb of chicken every week for my boys to have sandwiches or wraps for lunch. Cheaper than lunch meat and better for you.

[LostSurprise]

 

The question of how much nitrate in veggies and water eventually ends up as nitrosamines/ides doesn't have an answer I can find. However, we knows that nitrosamines/ides cause stomach cancer in animals, and possibly humans. Vegetarians tend to consume many more nitrates from veggies and have a *lower* risk of stomach cancer than the general population.

 

 

Remember that vegetable-based nitrates are concentrated, extremely concentrated. It is not like someone eating a head of celery.

[Serenade]

Our walmart here (very rural) even carries it, so it's just about everywhere. I try to avoid processed meat altogether, though.

 

 

 

Your Walmart carries lunchmeat without nitrates? Or did I misunderstand?

 

If so, what is the brand?

 

I buy Applegate when I can, but it is not everywhere, and I'm not familiar with other brands. Plus it's pricey. If Walmart carried something, it would probably be less.

 

A dietician once told me that the meat sliced at the deli has fewer nitrates than the pre-packaged kinds, but I never did any research to see if that's true.

[Firefly]

Sources of nitrosamines:

* Foods containing nitrosamines/ides include processed/cured meats, beer, and certain relatively exotic mushrooms.

* Nitrosamines/ides can be produced in your digestive tract when nitrites interact with some foods traveling through. These nitrites can either be ingested directly or converted during digestion from nitrates.

 

The question of how much nitrate in veggies and water eventually ends up as nitrosamines/ides doesn't have an answer I can find. However, we knows that nitrosamines/ides cause stomach cancer in animals, and possibly humans. Vegetarians tend to consume many more nitrates from veggies and have a *lower* risk of stomach cancer than the general population.

 

 

Interesting-- thank you for the information.

[mom31257]

http://dreamhealer.w...an-consumption/

 

 

What do you all think about this?

 

I find it very disturbing. My kids eat lunch meat just about every day. :sad: I feel like I need to stop buying it.

But now I have to make a new plan for lunch.

My youngest does not like bread or peanut butter. Typically, lunch here is fruit, yogurt, turkey/ham, & cheese.

ugh.

 

Why can't food just be safe?

 

:banghead:

Whole wheat tortillas and pita breads are a lunch lifesaver to me. I can quickly make a pita pizza or quesadilla for lunch. I only buy the sandwich meats without nitrates, and you can make a great wrap with tortillas as well. I put 2 slices of meat, 1 slice of cheese, and lots of spinach, onion, tomato and any dressing the kids want. How about refried bean nachos for a quick, no meat lunch? There are lots of ways to make it quick without having to make a traditional sandwich. I hope you find food ideas that you call all like!

[Serenade]

Growing up, my mom used all sorts of leftovers to make sandwiches -- roast, meatloaf, chicken, etc. We also ate plenty of cheese sandwiches. Although I'm sure we ate more than our fair share of salami, too.

 

I struggle with the whole lunch meat thing as well. We are sandwich eaters at our house but we usually keep our leftover dinner meats for supper meals, not sandwiches. I don't like to make a lunch that includes pot ands pans. I do try to limit lunch meats, but I will usually buy them a couple of times a month.

 

I guess we'll have to eat more cheese sandwiches. I've started making homemade pimento cheese, but that's not exactly healthy, either.

 

I think the bottom line is if you want healthy foods, you have to make it all from scratch, which means a lot of cooking and that doesn't seem to mesh well with our current lifestyles. Although I'm beginning to think nothing is really healthy and natural anymore, what with contamination in the water and soil from pesticides and hormones, and the spread of GMOs, too.

[J-rap]

This is interesting. We stay away from added nitrates, but I knew nothing about naturally occurring nitrates.