Anyone NOT like Brave Writer (for lower elem)? Advice please!

[marylandhsmom]

Hi, I've just stumbled across Brave Writer and I know it's on sale now at the HSBC until the end of May. My DD is a rising 1st grader. I'm wondering if anyone has used the Wand or Jot It Down? We plan on using MFW 1st as our core curric. We also supplement with ETC. Any advice would be super helpful! I'm not sure I want to use FLL and/or WWE with DD, who is very right-brained and creative, but also a reluctant writer.... is it worth getting TWJ right now, also?

 

Thanks in advance!!!

jane :hat:

[marylandhsmom]

Forgot to mention that MFW 1st includes phonics instruction....

[Farrar]

Well, I'm well known for loving Brave Writer. So I can't give you the cons very well. ;)

 

Yes, definitely worth getting TWJ now. It lays out her whole philosophy and stages of writing and so forth. They may have changed the wording, but for ages it said grade 3 and up or something, which I think was a mistake. It's really focused on the whole of writing education and I think reading it early helps you think about the goals and so forth.

 

There aren't a lot of Wand users here. I found BW when my kids were starting to age out of the Wand so we didn't use it, though in retrospect, I think we could have done level 3 last year. But the sample lesson from The Wand on the website seems misleading to me because it's the first one from the easiest book. So just be aware that the phonics and the mechanics content does move up substantially, even with level 1 it seemed to me, and certainly by level 3.

 

ETA: I can't say how it would mesh with MFW, not having any experience with that. But the biggest con to doing BW in the early grades IMO, would be a weakness in direct, progressive phonics and spelling instruction, which some kids would do fine with - getting phonics and spelling all in context works for some kids. But many kids need more. But if you're doing ETC, then you're covering your bases so to speak.

[ItoLina]

Definately get TWJ, that will give you a good idea of how it will work for you.

 

I use The Wand and Jot it Down with ds who is finishing Iup K but mostly already doing 1st grade work. I agree with Farrar that The Wand by itself is not enough phonics. We use ETC along with it and also additional readers to the ones that go along with the lessons in The Wand. I think if you were contineing on woth the phonis from MFW and doing ETC that definately be enough with The Wand.

 

Another thing is that it really does move way too fast if you start young. We started level 1 in the middle of K and it was perfect for ds....maybe just a little below where hi his reading level was when we started. Now, we are toward the end of level 2 and he is getting really frustrated with it. It is just getting too advanced for him. So, I have actually not done it for a bit and have been just continuing on with our routine from TWJ on my own...basically doing my regular phonics stuff and using but my own selections for copywork and dictation. The Wand is a nice guide of all the things that TWJ tells you to do all laid out for you. For me, it was very helpful in getting me into the routine of the Brave Writer lifestyle because it was all planned out for me. Now that we have been doing it a while, it feels less overwhelming to pick it up on my own and continue without a guide. If anything, i reccomend getting it for that. it felt like someone holding my hand and helping me incorporate all the great ideas from TWJ into our school day. That said, I definately plan to come back to the convinience of The Wand when I feel ds is ready for the rest of the lessons.

 

We just started Jot it Down a couple months ago as well and I love it. It is has some really great ideas for writing projects and lays out the proces for completing them. My son is loving it. I feel the Jot it Down is very easily adapted to many levels because you are writing the story for them as they narrate to you.

 

For a reluctant writer I think the whole Brave Writer lifestyle is especially great. It is very gentle, fun, and not overwhelming.

[pgr]

My eldest was out of the age range for the Wand and Jot it Down, but I agree that TWJ has a lot of terrific ideas that we have implemented.

 

It does show up on HSBC fairly regularly. One book that we have loved (though some don't) is No More "I'm Done" - cant get it to link otherwise:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1571107843/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1368986888&sr=8-1&pi=SL75

 

Just an additional option :)

[marylandhsmom]

Thanks so much, ladies, for the responses!

 

One more question. Do you think BW is the "same" or "better" as FLL/WWE? Or is it like comparing apples and oranges?

 

I think I will end up getting TWJ now. (Ooh DH, sorry!)... just wish it weren't so pricey!!

[Farrar]

Thanks so much, ladies, for the responses!

 

One more question. Do you think BW is the "same" or "better" as FLL/WWE? Or is it like comparing apples and oranges?

 

I think I will end up getting TWJ now. (Ooh DH, sorry!)... just wish it weren't so pricey!!

 

They're not apples and oranges because there are some things about them that are very much the same.

 

Both rely on the classical ideas of writing others' words (copywork/dictation) in order to learn good writing/sentence structure and practice grammar concepts. Both also rely on the classical ideas of memory and summary (narration/dictation).

 

But then they diverge. BW has a different idea of narration in many ways. It's more open, less formulaic. BW also has different ideas about how to teach dictations. And BW also believes in taking the child's personal voice and helping that become the center of their writing. That's where narrations and revisions come in. This is very different from WTM thinking, where creative writing doesn't have a huge place and writing is really all about academic writing. In BW, writing is a lifelong skill and academic writing is one form you focus on in high school.

 

They also have different concepts of how to do grammar. FLL is direct teaching. BW is about teaching in context for the most part.

 

So I think they're different. I think WWE/FLL might work better for some kids/parents and BW might work better for others. I personally like BW much better - I think it's a bigger vision that works for more types of learners and writers. However, it's less laid out than WTM style writing instruction, so that means that it's a harder road map for some parents.

[Five More Minutes]

 

They're not apples and oranges because there are some things about them that are very much the same.

 

Both rely on the classical ideas of writing others' words (copywork/dictation) in order to learn good writing/sentence structure and practice grammar concepts. Both also rely on the classical ideas of memory and summary (narration/dictation).

 

But then they diverge. BW has a different idea of narration in many ways. It's more open, less formulaic. BW also has different ideas about how to teach dictations. And BW also believes in taking the child's personal voice and helping that become the center of their writing. That's where narrations and revisions come in. This is very different from WTM thinking, where creative writing doesn't have a huge place and writing is really all about academic writing. In BW, writing is a lifelong skill and academic writing is one form you focus on in high school.

 

They also have different concepts of how to do grammar. FLL is direct teaching. BW is about teaching in context for the most part.

 

So I think they're different. I think WWE/FLL might work better for some kids/parents and BW might work better for others. I personally like BW much better - I think it's a bigger vision that works for more types of learners and writers. However, it's less laid out than WTM style writing instruction, so that means that it's a harder road map for some parents.

 

I agree. Farrar has compared the two programs beautifully.

 

I'm one of those parents who can't make BW work, although I've benefited from and used some of the ideas in TWJ. I use WWE as our main writing program, and one of the huge draws for me has been its open-and-go nature. I have observed, too, that our in-school focus on more academic writing has not impeded my elder daughter's creative writing, which she pursues on her own. But she is only 7 years old, so I may find myself adjusting programs down the road!

 

FWIW, many people use FLL with WWE with good success, but the two programs don't have to be used together. I used FLL for K and Gr. 1, but in Gr. 2 switched to MCT for grammar and writing enrichment activities and am finding that it complements WWE beautifully.

[ByGrace3]

We are new to BW and have slowly started incorporating some if their ideas and will be adding a lot more next year.

 

Formal spelling and grammar are important to me so we keep separate programs for those. For writing, I am planning to use WWE style narrations across the curriculum and then use BW style dictation and copy work via the Arrow. We have Jot It Down and plan to use some of those projects with my first and third graders.

 

I like a lot of the BW ideas, but while it has similarities with FLL/WWE it really has very different philosophy.

 

Philosophically, I line up with SWB much more than BW, but I think TWJ has a lot of great practical day to day ideas to utilize.

 

I am not as laid back about LA as BW is-- just using dictation copy work for grammar and spelling is not sufficient for me...

 

So, I take the bests of both.

 

I like WWE/FLL with a but of jot it down for first and second will be out plan (moving to BW style dictation/copy work in 2nd) and then from third on use WWE style narrations with BW dictations/copy work, poetry teas, and free writes.

 

Sorry if this is all over the place I am on my phone... :)

 

I think TWJ is well worth it, but the wand is not appealing to me. Jot it down is a great supplement but I like more mechanics for my littles, and FLL-WWE offers that.

 

So, both but not all of both. ;)

[mlktwins]

We are new to BW and have slowly started incorporating some if their ideas and will be adding a lot more next year.

 

Formal spelling and grammar are important to me so we keep separate programs for those. For writing, I am planning to use WWE style narrations across the curriculum and then use BW style dictation and copy work via the Arrow. We have Jot It Down and plan to use some of those projects with my first and third graders.

 

I like a lot of the BW ideas, but while it has similarities with FLL/WWE it really has very different philosophy.

 

Philosophically, I line up with SWB much more than BW, but I think TWJ has a lot of great practical day to day ideas to utilize.

 

I am not as laid back about LA as BW is-- just using dictation copy work for grammar and spelling is not sufficient for me...

 

So, I take the bests of both.

 

I like WWE/FLL with a but of jot it down for first and second will be out plan (moving to BW style dictation/copy work in 2nd) and then from third on use WWE style narrations with BW dictations/copy work, poetry teas, and free writes.

 

Sorry if this is all over the place I am on my phone... :)

 

I think TWJ is well worth it, but the wand is not appealing to me. Jot it down is a great supplement but I like more mechanics for my littles, and FLL-WWE offers that.

 

So, both but not all of both. ;)

 

 

This is me exactly (except for the part about BW style dictation and copy work via the Arrow). We will stick with FLL, WWE, and AAS for spelling. I recently purchased TWJ and Jot it Down. We will doing freewrites Bravewriter style and I love several of the projects in Jot it Down. Plan to use them with my twin 3rd graders. They both do well with FLL and WWE, but one loves to do creative writing and the other one doesn't. Hoping the freewrites and Jot it Down help with that.

[marylandhsmom]

 

I bought TWSS and the Fables, Myths, Fairytailes book, and that worked.

TWSS made me help to understand how dd experiences a writingassignment, and why she struggled that much.

 

 

What is TWSS?

[marylandhsmom]

Wow, now I have a lot more to consider after reading everyone's comments... Never thought about combining FLL and BW. I probably just need to read TWJ to understand the BW philosophy better. Thank you to everyone who replied! :)

[VeritasMama]

TWSS is Teaching Writing: Structure and Style from IEW.

 

It might be interesting to note that Julie Bogart uses CM language arts methods combined with her own experiences as a professional writer. I've read some great comments from her on some CM forums. That may be why there is so much overlap between BW and WWE. I've always though of CM as a classical educator who came up with her own approach to classical methods, and there is so much overlap between the two approaches.

 

I am going to purchase TWJ from hsbcc this month to use with my soon to be 3rd grader, I used WWE with my older children, but ds8 needs something different. I think which one works best will depend on your student and your own teaching style.

[marylandhsmom]

So if I were to make only one purchase through HSBC, should I buy TWJ or Jot it Down, and get TWJ next year? DD is 6 and we will be using MFW 1 and ETC for phonics/basic grammar.

[Farrar]

So if I were to make only one purchase through HSBC, should I buy TWJ or Jot it Down, and get TWJ next year? DD is 6 and we will be using MFW 1 and ETC for phonics/basic grammar.

 

 

I pretty much always think people should start with TWJ. But Jot It Down is the real, practical piece. And it gives a bit of the philosophy as well...

[marylandhsmom]

Thank you, Farrar! I appreciate your thoughts...coming from one DC metro native to another! (Nice blog!)

[stripe]

What ever happened to her next program? I got this email on 4/30 about how she was about to release a book on partnership writing, but haven't heard much from her except that slightly bizarre email saluting hippies of the 21st century.

[Wabi Sabi]

I *wanted* to like Brave Writer, but just could not get through TWJ at all. I'm sure her ideas are fabulous if I could just wade through all of the extraneous, rambling writing to get to them! I've learned that I prefer more succinct writing. In retrospect, I should've paid more attention to her posts on the Brave Writer Facebook page for a week or two before making the purchase. If so I'm sure I would have realized that her writing style just wasn't going to be something that I'd enjoy.

 

https://www.facebook.com/bravewriter?fref=ts

[Farrar]

What ever happened to her next program? I got this email on 4/30 about how she was about to release a book on partnership writing, but haven't heard much from her except that slightly bizarre email saluting hippies of the 21st century.

 

 

On FB, she said there was a formatting delay and it will be out this week - Thurs or Fri I think? She posts lots and lots of those sorts of things on her FB page, so in that context it didn't seem weird at all. She is always having these ramblings about homeschooling and so forth. I like most of it. It was odd that it then came as an email though when those are usually just very product and class selling...

[stripe]

I'm not even entirely sure why I am thinking about her next thing, seeing as I keep buying her stuff and then not using it. Hmph.

 

Eta: Bravewriter is NOT the only resource for which this is the case. My comment may be more about me than anything else.