BJU math 2 or Horizons 2? I'm stuck!

[alisoncooks]

This is the last decision to be made for this fall! :hurray:

 

We've almost finished BJU 1 this year and DD really likes it. She loves the cute cartoons mostly. I like that there's a reasonable amount of work for each lesson (not crowded or too full pages) mixed with hands-on.

I have a few reservations that continue to nag: I've read (many times) that it is behind even public schools s&s.... and I am not a fan of the teacher's guides (which are pretty pricey).

 

I was planning to use BJU 2 next year but went ahead and ordered Horizons (it's the only other math program I have NOT tried/looked at this year). And it looks pretty good (doggone it!) I love the look of the teacher's manual! Reservation: there is sooo much work per lesson! I don't know if DD can handle that. Also, I think we'd have to go backwards a half-year for her to be able to jump in...

 

Thoughts?

Love Horizons and think it prepares excellently for the upper grades math?

Love BJU and feel it is perfectly adequate/comparable to other programs?

[Plink]

Choose what works best for you with the intention of sticking with it long term. Both are solid, but curriculum hopping can leave you with gaps over the long term. (Not that it really matters in 2nd grade, but you wouldn't want to make math shopping an annual event)

 

Can you link to where you have heard that BJU math is behind academically? I have not heard that before, but would be interested in researching it.

[alisoncooks]

Thanks. I am hoping to choose something that we'll stick with until middle school (or if we choose BJU, possibly longer).

I'm sure I read the BJU-being-behind info on the boards here... if not here, then on one of my many "BJU Math reviews" google searches. :p (And that one little review has planted a seed of doubt... it's likely not even true!)

[Jess4879]

Can I pick your brain about BJU math?? We are looking at using it for gr.2, but I'm undecided. How long does it take you to teach a lesson, on average? Do you feel the need to supplement in any areas?

[Tanikit]

I don't know anything about BJU, but use Horizons 1 with my DD and I have also looked at Horizons 2 - the print size from 1 to 2 gets quite a bit smaller and there is more work per page which I do worry about with my young DD. She is only half way through Horizons 1 and I have had to drop the amount of problems that she does per page - she now does only half of them unless it is a new concept and this works well for her - she is not missing out at all and it is quicker to get the worksheet done. You may find it easier of you start at book 2 of Horizons 1 and she will get used to the amount of work.

 

I also can't help you on swapping curricula - I use both SM and Horizons as I cannot decide, which is perhaps also why I get away with skipping half the worksheets in Horizons. Since you have Horizons 2 you could also always try it and see if it will work (though quite a pricey experiment if you do not go with it) and you could also compare them that way. Though in another vein I do not usually advise people to switch if something is working for them.

[...................]

I say Stick with BJU. Horizons is great but it's not great for critical thinking and if your dd loves BJU that's another great reason.

 

If you do use horizons you have to teach times tables NOW before starting horizons 2 b/c horizons doesn't really teach it well, and your dd will be expected to know all her times tables by 2b. By 3a she will be doing multi digit multiplication.

 

BJU has good long term options with the Internet lessons when she gets older. That night come in handy.

 

We are using a more conceptual math and I must say my children's love for math is back, and that's refreshing.

[alisoncooks]

Can I pick your brain about BJU math?? We are looking at using it for gr.2, but I'm undecided. How long does it take you to teach a lesson, on average? Do you feel the need to supplement in any areas?

 

Well, we've only made it halfway through BJU 1 (we did all of SM 1A before making the switch). I have NOT been using the teacher's guides, so I don't know how long a lesson *should* take. (Because I still had my SM HIGs, I've been teaching with their methodology, but doing the BJU worksheets. I do plan on using the guides from here on out if I use BJU -- otherwise you get very little drill, hands-on, etc.)

Also, my DD is a SLLLOOOOWWW worker (needs lots of hand-holding to get a page done) so we do math for 30-45 min. per lesson. I did not supplement any this year (since we're already behind) but I do plan on adding in a Math Logic & word problem workbook from Creative Teaching Press next year.

 

I have also looked at Horizons 2 - the print size from 1 to 2 gets quite a bit smaller and there is more work per page ...[snip]...You may find it easier of you start at book 2 of Horizons 1 and she will get used to the amount of work.

 

I noticed this, too. I actually have Horizons 1 (book 2) on hand. I would definitely go back and begin there if I made the switch!

 

I say Stick with BJU. Horizons is great but it's not great for critical thinking and if your dd loves BJU that's another great reason.

....

We are using a more conceptual math and I must say my children's love for math is back, and that's refreshing.

 

That is a good point. She does like BJU a lot -- though she's been open to Horizons -- she thought it looked colorful & fun, too. :p

What "more conceptual math" are you using now? Does Calvert use MiF?

[PentecostalMom]

We recently switched from Saxon 2 to Horizons, and I had to go back to the fist book of Horizons 1. We were on lesson 22 of Saxon 2. Horizons is colorful and most days my dd (turned 7 this past March) does two lessons. I don't think it is too much fo her, but we also do the supplemental worksheet packet. I haven't yet looked at Horizons 2, because we are planning to try a MUS/TT combo for 2nd grade. She should easily test into TT 3 when she is done with Horizons 1 (I have looked at the TT placement test). We are actually adding in MUS starting Monday due to other reviews and recommendations. My dh is the math expert around here and while I do the research and narrow it down to certain choices, he and I discuss and he reviews everything I choose to help me make the best math choices. FWIW, I don't have a problem with Horizons or BJU, and I agree that you should stick with what is working. If you switch her and she is miserable (because you mentioned she works slowly) then that will again cause you to question your choice and may cause you to consider switching again. We are planning to go long-term with the MUS/TT combo, that was one of our criteria when making choices.

 

I used BJU with my older dc and it was fine, but we had been using Abeka and I ended up back with that because BJU was behind Abeka. I don't think BJU is behind, and even if it is, if you let her work at her own pace (within reason) she may get ahead at some point. I would not worry yourself if she is not a math oriented kid. BJU is a solid program.

[8filltheheart]

I know nothing about BJU, so I can't comment. I am on my 7th child working through Horizons.

 

My 1st comment is to agree with the poster that said you need to pick a program and stick with it. Good programs build on each other yr after yr and are systematically set up to ensure all elementary topics are covered thoroughly.

 

My 2nd response is that Horizons is a great program. It does provide conceptual understanding of all concepts being taught. Its one weakness, if there is one, is that there are not a lot of word problems. It has provided my kids a solid elementary base so I don't think it is that big of a weakness over all. I have started using Hands on Equations and love it and its problems are nothing but word problems so it is a great supplement that complements Horizons teaching approach very well. i just startd HOE with my 6th child through Horizons, so my older kids had zero supplementing. The older 5 have all been solid in upper math, so not supplementing did not hurt them in any way. (Also, there was no pre-alg or alg bk when we first started using it, so we switch after the 6th grade bk.)

 

And 3rd, I think the length of Horizons' lessons is appropriate.

 

 

[Jess4879]

Well, we've only made it halfway through BJU 1 (we did all of SM 1A before making the switch). I have NOT been using the teacher's guides, so I don't know how long a lesson *should* take. (Because I still had my SM HIGs, I've been teaching with their methodology, but doing the BJU worksheets. I do plan on using the guides from here on out if I use BJU -- otherwise you get very little drill, hands-on, etc.)

Also, my DD is a SLLLOOOOWWW worker (needs lots of hand-holding to get a page done) so we do math for 30-45 min. per lesson. I did not supplement any this year (since we're already behind) but I do plan on adding in a Math Logic & word problem workbook from Creative Teaching Press next year.

 

 

I am so undecided. We used Saxon K and then went to MM 1 and now I want to switch again. Eek. I do not do well with explaining math topics. My math vocabulary is very, very limited, so I end up using words like "this over here" and "that line here is such and such" It's not pretty. LOL

[alisoncooks]

My math vocabulary is very, very limited, so I end up using words like "this over here" and "that line here is such and such" It's not pretty. LOL

LOL! :D

Well, if it helps:

1. BJU is scripted. ;)

2. I think BJU is very thorough on math vocabulary it actually teaches the child & expects the child to know (addend, subtrahend, minuend.... :huh:). I didn't see those actually taught/reviewed in the other programs I used/looked through....or at least not as much.

 

ETA: Math Mammoth is a good program and gets a lot of praise, but my daughter couldn't handle the pages jam-packed full of work. I skipped about half the problems, but they were still there, distracting her. Plus, I wanted a program that TAUGHT ME how to actually teach her... and MM didn't have enough hand-holding for me.

[8filltheheart]

 

LOL! :D

Well, if it helps:

1. BJU is scripted. ;)

2. I think BJU is very thorough on math vocabulary it actually teaches the child & expects the child to know (addend, subtrahend, minuend.... :huh:). I didn't see those actually taught/reviewed in the other programs I used/looked through....or at least not as much.

 

These are taught I Horizons.;)

[Jess4879]

LOL! :D

Well, if it helps:

1. BJU is scripted. ;)

2. I think BJU is very thorough on math vocabulary it actually teaches the child & expects the child to know (addend, subtrahend, minuend.... :huh:). I didn't see those actually taught/reviewed in the other programs I used/looked through....or at least not as much.

 

I noticed that in the samples. I like that it's scripted too. That's one thing I liked about Saxon, but the spiral drove my DD and myself insane. We attempted MM, but so many times she is glazing over when the math is broken down (like the pages where they complete the next ten). She isn't understanding what the purpose is, even after I've explained and done examples with manipulatives. We'll go over the lesson, work a few problems, she'll fill in the blanks...and the next day she has no idea how to do it. We did Saxon K and then MM 1...and I am worried to switch again, but I'm thinking it might be the best move. I'd rather switch than keep strugging through a program that she isn't grasping...

 

(thanks for letting me work this through in type...lol)

[alisoncooks]

These are taught I Horizons. ;)

Arg! Hahaa, that doesn't make my decision any easier. I'm on vacation right now, but I've got 2 levels of Horizons sitting at home, waiting for me to just look-and-look-and-debate.... :)

 

**The more I look at Horizons, the more I really like their teacher guides... I may just have to close my eyes and point to pick.**

[SebastianCat]

I have one child working through Horizons and one child in MUS. We used BJU in kindergarten and I have several friends who are using BJU math long-term (but their oldest children are entering 6th grade this fall and have used BJU since kindergarten).

 

To the OP, if your child is doing well with BJU and she likes it, go with the "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" mentality. Don't switch to a different program. Stick with what works for that child.

 

My older child has been in Horizons since Horizons 1 in 1st grade. He LOVES it. He eats is up - the jokes, the secret word, the logic, everything about it. He will be doing Horizons 6 starting this fall, and I plan to keep him in Horizons as long as I can - currently through Algebra I.

 

My younger child hit a wall halfway through Horizons 2. It was too much, too fast for her. We took a deep breath, started drilling multiplication tables daily, and switched to MUS, which has been a wonderful fit for her. MUS has given her the confidence that she didn't have in Horizons, because she can focus on one main skill at a time, not moving on until she masters that skill - rather than constantly being bombarded with 20 different types of problems in the sprial format of Horizons. I will keep her in MUS for as long as we homeschool.

 

I say all of this to emphasize that different math programs will fit children differently, even within the same family. If your child is doing well in BJU, why switch? If you feel she needs a little extra supplementation, buy a cheap supplement on those specific topics, but I wouldn't try using Horizons as a supplement since it moves SO quickly and covers SO much in each lesson.

[PeterPan]

Are you using new or old edition BJU? If you're using the new edition, there's NO issue with being behind. Old edition, yes you could have some questions. It was old and standards have changed. New edition is awesome.

 

If you're using the worktext and not the tm, you're NOT getting the entire course. There's a cd in there with supplemental worksheets, etc. The tm has review built in. Those lessons might go faster if you used the tm. My dd has low processing speed, so I understand lessons going long. However in this case I'm suggesting you might be shooting yourself in the foot. If you want to use BJU, use it. If you want to use SM, use SM. And sorry to be blunt, but why are you jumping so much??? The kid is 6. It's ok to try everything, but she's 6. Pick something and stick with it and do it every day. Pay yourself a dollar a day for every day you pick up that abhored tm, teach the lesson, and go use the money to buy yourself something nice (a manicure, whatever) at the end of the month.

[alisoncooks]

Glad to hear the new editions are considered current, re: standards.

[PeterPan]

Glad to hear the new editions are considered current, re: standards.

 

 

It's actually more than that. BJU was always fine and correlated to standardized tests. They did some independent testing a few years ago and found over the long run students using BJU did BETTER than students using other curricula. http://www.hightestscores.com

 

From what I've been told, the tests and standards (this was pre common core) have been increasing, so BJU has been incorporating those new standards into their new editions. They were never behind before, and they are now quite good. Have you been using old edition or new?

[alisoncooks]

Have you been using old edition or new?

 

We've been using the new edition.

Maybe I just need to sit down with the BJU guide again and figure out how to make it work for me...

[PeterPan]

Also check out what's on the cd in the tm. In the old edition we had Stretch Your Mind pages that were extra and fun. I assume something like that is on the cd now, don't know.

[jer2911mom]

I have heard that the Horizons teacher guides are not always explicit in their instruction. Is that still the case? I noticed some of that in the samples I looked at a couple of years ago. It would say "teach this" but not really tell how. It might be worth looking into if you prefer more explicit instruction.

 

HTH,

Kathy

[MissKNG]

I think BJU math is "on point" but is "behind" Horizons Math. I would try the placement test for Horizons if you are going from BJU to Horizons.

 

Horizons is very easy to compact and cross problems out. You don't need to do every single problem on every single page. I've even skipped entire exercises because the repetition was much.

[alisoncooks]

Thanks for all the feedback on these 2 programs.

I believe that I am just going to continue with BJU. DD likes it & it is currently stress-free for us (important since phonics/reading are toughies for DD).

 

Now, for those that have used BJU: I continue to see listings for "Spread your wings" and "Stretch your mind" workbooks on ebay/amazon. Did these go with the older (2nd) edition? I don't see them listed at any e-tailers that sell the curriculum....

[FriedClams]

We've used Horizons from the beginning through 6th grade. My dd transitioned seamlessly to Saxon Algebra 1/2. My son is breezing though Horizons 6. Their grades have been good and their standardized test scores excellent. (We never skip problems or tests.) We do have to take space into consideration and rewrite a few problems so there's more room, but overall I love the program and highly recommend it.

[jer2911mom]

Thanks for all the feedback on these 2 programs.

I believe that I am just going to continue with BJU. DD likes it & it is currently stress-free for us (important since phonics/reading are toughies for DD).

 

Now, for those that have used BJU: I continue to see listings for "Spread your wings" and "Stretch your mind" workbooks on ebay/amazon. Did these go with the older (2nd) edition? I don't see them listed at any e-tailers that sell the curriculum....

 

 

I emailed BJUP recently to ask them about the Stretch Your Mind book and also the Reviews book answer key that I was seeing for sale on RR. Here is what they had to say:

 

Thank you for emailing BJU Press. The answers to the Math 3 Reviews are found in the Teacher’s Toolkit CD which is found attached to the back cover of the Math 3 Teacher’s Edition. We no longer produce the Stretch your Mind workbook.

 

HTH,

Kathy

[alisoncooks]

I emailed BJUP recently to ask them about the Stretch Your Mind book and also the Reviews book answer key that I was seeing for sale on RR.

Thanks. I was thinking it must've been with the older editions...