How do you refer to a transgender person?

[UmMusa]

I know from the mother that this teenage boy wants to be, or is, transgender, and that he started going by a girl's name at some point. However, the mom still refers to him as her son. Today, he is dressed like a feminine boy with makeup, girlish haircut, perky mannerisms in talk and actions. I've never been introduced to this person and honestly don't know if he/she identifies as a boy or girl.

 

Here's where the question comes in: I was sitting at a table with this person with my kids, and I didn't know whether to refer to him as a he or a she. He referred to the person next to him as a 'he', but that person looked more like a 'she' to me.

 

What is the right thing?

[Truscifi]

I would ask, but I'm straightforward like that. The only "protocol" I'm aware of is to go with how the person self-identifies.

[Rosie_0801]

I'd say "Hey, what pronoun do you go by?" Blunt, but gets the awkwardness over and done with.

[UmMusa]

Ok, we were sitting at the same table b/c of face painting, so I didn't know how to refer to the person, and it was so short-lived and random that I don't even know what I would've asked!

[UmMusa]

Rosie, LOL!!!

[oceanseve]

You go by what the person identifies with. If you are curious and don't want to offend the child then ask the mother what pronoun he/she would prefer when being spoken to/in front of when the child is not present/paying attention.

 

When in doubt you can always use their. It's their turn. Let them go. What a beautiful face painting they have.

[LucyStoner]

Use what they use for themselves and don't be shy about simply asking when in doubt.

 

Just never say "it" and you'll be fine. ;)

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Just ask. Then you'll know which they prefer.

[Melissa in Australia]

I would not know what term to use. I hope I am never in a situation where I need to. :leaving: I know my father would use the pronoun it

[Laurel]

And you just keep those fingers crossed you don't get introduced to "Jaime." Ohhhhh Jaime, you perfectly appropriate name for a girl or boy! I shake my fist at your ambiguous (but lovely name!) nature!

 

I knew a guy who, when he transitioned, went from one androgynous name to another. I always found it ironic that his given name was a more stereotypical male name than his chosen one. (Obviously that was my opinion at least.)

[Tap]

I'd say "Hey, what pronoun do you go by?" Blunt, but gets the awkwardness over and done with.

 

This is what I have done in the past. It has worked well for me and of the people, I have asked, I have had nothing but respectful answers in response.

[UmMusa]

I was tucking in my 4yr old and she said she likes girls to do face painting and not boys. That's why she didn't sit in the chair today unless she was on my lap; she said she didn't like for a boy to do it. So I guess she knew it was a boy!

[Ravin]

Most trans folks would prefer to be asked than to be mis-gendered. Don't be afraid to politely ask, just as you'd ask a person their name when you've forgotten it after being introduced (something I find myself having to do a lot). A simple, "I'm sorry, but which pronouns do you prefer?" is all it takes.

[Ravin]

I was tucking in my 4yr old and she said she likes girls to do face painting and not boys. That's why she didn't sit in the chair today unless she was on my lap; she said she didn't like for a boy to do it. So I guess she knew it was a boy!

 

 

Four year olds aren't necessarily good judges of gender. Not long ago at an SCA event, there was this 4 yo. boy who flat out didn't believe me or his parents when I told him DS was a boy becaus DS has long hair. It wasn't until I pointed out all the adult men around him (probably a third of them) with long hair (usually accompanied by facial hair) that he was at all convinced.

 

And please don't refer to a person as "it." Ever.

[UmMusa]

Thanks, Ravin! I never would have thought to ask what pronoun someone would like for me to use ( I would've thought that would be rude, but apparently from the replies it is done). Also, I think you misunderstood my use of "it"... not derogatory.. kinda like when a baby is born you say "It's a boy!"

[Ravin]

Yes, UmMusa, I got that. I just tend to be sensitive about it...see some of the above posts (like the one previous poster's comment about what her father would have to say) as to why, in a transgender-topic context, I am so sensitive about it.

[swellmomma]

I would call them what ever they preferred, so I would ask them, might feel awkward but less so than stumbling over she/he/him/her all the time kwim

[Pod's mum]

Years ago when I had very short hair and rode a motorbike I was in a bank, wearing (masculine) wet weather bike gear and a young child walked all around me, studied me from all angles close up and walked 2m away and loudly announced to his mum, "He's a girl, cos he's got an earring."

Mum was mortified, but I thought it was really funny. I wanted to congratulate him, but confuse him further because boys sometimes have one earring too, not just because they've lost one.

 

"He's a girl", worked for me, however for transgender person we knew we used 'his' adopted gender.

[Night Elf]

My dd15 just did a lot of research on this and said to be polite and ask them their preference. They shouldn't feel annoyed, but glad someone cares to ask.

[Jenny in Florida]

We have a teen in our lives who is dear to us (referred to for several years as my other child). When she began moving towards identifying as he, we did find the transition a little awkward. One day, I just asked what was preferred. He said he was okay with either, but preferred the chosen male name and pronoun. So, that's what we use now.

 

Except when his parents, who have thus far refused to acknowledge the whole situation publicly, are around. Then, I construct all of my sentences to be gender neutral, which is a real pain but seems to keep the peace.

[TranquilMind]

I know from the mother that this teenage boy wants to be, or is, transgender, and that he started going by a girl's name at some point. However, the mom still refers to him as her son. Today, he is dressed like a feminine boy with makeup, girlish haircut, perky mannerisms in talk and actions. I've never been introduced to this person and honestly don't know if he/she identifies as a boy or girl.

 

Here's where the question comes in: I was sitting at a table with this person with my kids, and I didn't know whether to refer to him as a he or a she. He referred to the person next to him as a 'he', but that person looked more like a 'she' to me.

 

What is the right thing?

 

21st Century problems.

 

Life used to be simpler. We all knew what gender we were. Lord.

 

I'd probably do my best to avoid all pronouns, honestly. But I'd always think of a boy as a boy, if I knew him as a boy. That's just the way it is. I would have a really hard time calling a guy, "She", no matter what the person told me to do.

[Aslana]

If they are in the process of transitioning, most would prefer you ask. In fact, they welcome the asking. Just ask "how should I address you?" and they'll tell you. Once they've transitioned, you address them as they present.

 

I wouldn't ask parents if I thought the parents were not welcoming to this. I would ask the person. If the parents are welcoming and accepting, then I would ask them as well.

[TranquilMind]

Most trans folks would prefer to be asked than to be mis-gendered. Don't be afraid to politely ask, just as you'd ask a person their name when you've forgotten it after being introduced (something I find myself having to do a lot). A simple, "I'm sorry, but which pronouns do you prefer?" is all it takes.

 

But couldn't that be offensive too? What if you are mistaken and THINK a person is transgendered, but isn't (assuming it hasn't been directly addressed here)?

 

I can't imagine if someone thought a person was a masculine looking person trying to look female, but the person was just a female who wasn't particularly feminine! I can just see all kinds of awkward situations here by asking, "So, Janet....which pronouns do you prefer?" and getting a totally blank stare.

[Aslana]

It's a lot easier to tell a transgendered that you think. This isn't a matter of looking at a particularly masculine female or feminine man. They usually have and give off clues that they are transitioning. In fact, if they are welcomed in their circle of friends, you will know it just by that. It really isn't that complicated. Unless you are of the belief that this is wrong and it shouldn't be (as your previous post indicates), you shouldn't have this problem with identifying pronouns.

[higginszoo]

The only time I'd ask would be if it were a young child (I've heard of but never met a transgendered little one). For teens and adults, I agree that most of them feel validated that you at least cared to ask instead of pigeonhole them in the wrong one. Some have a strong preference, some don't care. I had a transgendered roommate/teammate on an international Girl Scout trip who really didn't care. He'd been born female was just starting to fully identify as male, but hey, was still a Girl Scout, so 'she' fit from that perspective, and the whole s/he issue was one that he saw as something to have a sense of humor about. Like someone else said, as long as you don't use 'it', many/most transgendered people are fine, but most of them are glad to give a preference if they have one if you ask.

[AdventureMoms]

Asking is perfectly appropriate. As is matching the pronouns to the name choice. If someone chooses the name Jane, then she can't be too offended if the female pronouns are used.

 

On four-year-olds, my Dd was very good at identifying gender at 2 and 3, but lost the ability around 4 when she began to absorb cultural norms. She has a mom who wears men's clothes and has short hair and had two long haired brothers until recently, but at 5 she still makes gender assumptions by hair length and clothing.

[nmoira]

 

21st Century problems.

 

Life used to be simpler. We all knew what gender we were. Lord.

 

I'd probably do my best to avoid all pronouns, honestly. But I'd always think of a boy as a boy, if I knew him as a boy. That's just the way it is. I would have a really hard time calling a guy, "She", no matter what the person told me to do.

 

Yes, it was certainly easier when people with certain "issues" were too shamed by society to even talk about it. :001_rolleyes:

[Rosie_0801]

 

21st Century problems.

 

Life used to be simpler. We all knew what gender we were. Lord.

 

I'd probably do my best to avoid all pronouns, honestly. But I'd always think of a boy as a boy, if I knew him as a boy. That's just the way it is. I would have a really hard time calling a guy, "She", no matter what the person told me to do.

 

 

It's hardly a 21st century problem and it's no one's fault that English doesn't have enough pronouns, as other languages do.

[TranquilMind]

 

Yes, it was certainly easier when people with certain "issues" were too shamed by society to even talk about it. :001_rolleyes:

 

 

We ALL have issues, of one type or another.

 

And we are almost all too ashamed of them to ever talk about them.

 

No one is special.

[nmoira]

We ALL have issues, of one type or another.

 

And we are almost all too ashamed of them to ever talk about them.

 

No one is special.

 

 

Makes me want to put on The Smiths to cheer up.

[TranquilMind]

 

Makes me want to put on The Smiths to cheer up.

 

 

I have no idea who that is. I googled a few lyrics. I take it that they are depressing? Don't know, as it is hard to judge without hearing the music.

[nmoira]

 

I have no idea who that is. I googled a few lyrics. I take it that they are depressing? Don't know, as it is hard to judge without hearing the music.

 

 

 

Yeah, you could say so, though the music is occasionally ironically cheery.

 

Mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head...

 

"Girlfriend in a Coma"

"Cemetery Gates" ("Keats and Yeats are on your side, while Wilde is on mine")

[Pod's mum]

 

I have no idea who that is. I googled a few lyrics. I take it that they are depressing? Don't know, as it is hard to judge without hearing the music.

 

The words of one of their songs go (from memory)

"I'd like to wish you an unhappy birthday,

Because you're evil and you lie,

And if you did die,

I might be a bit sad,

But I wouldn't cry."

 

Sung slowly and dirgy in a Northern English (?) voice.

[nmoira]

 

The words of one of their songs go (from memory)

"I'd like to wish you an unhappy birthday,

Because you're evil and you lie,

And if you did die,

I might be a bit sad,

But I wouldn't cry."

 

Sung slowly and dirgy in a Northern English (?) voice.

 

Manchester, though Morrissey's accent is mild.

[TranquilMind]

 

The words of one of their songs go (from memory)

"I'd like to wish you an unhappy birthday,

Because you're evil and you lie,

And if you did die,

I might be a bit sad,

But I wouldn't cry."

 

Sung slowly and dirgy in a Northern English (?) voice.

 

Ewww.

 

That's about the last thing I need right now. I'm glad I don't know them.

[Pod's mum]

Ewww.

 

That's about the last thing I need right now. I'm glad I don't know them.

 

You mean not everyone has an ex that was written expressly for?!

Wow....alternate realities.

[LucyStoner]

21st Century problems.

 

Life used to be simpler. We all knew what gender we were. Lord.

 

 

 

Transgendered people have existed as long as people have existed. There is ample evidence to point to that this is not a 21st century "problem", despite what you may want to think. My brother's life is significantly better for having been born at a time and in a place where he was able to come out as trans and get the help he needed. When you say such flip and derisive things you might consider that you are talking about real people with real lives, children, family and faith. People who I am quite sure you wouldn't challenge to their face about the veracity of their "problem".

 

(Edited to remove the freaking adorable picture of my brother, his husband and their oldest daughter as an infant)

[swellmomma]

 

But couldn't that be offensive too? What if you are mistaken and THINK a person is transgendered, but isn't (assuming it hasn't been directly addressed here)?

 

I can't imagine if someone thought a person was a masculine looking person trying to look female, but the person was just a female who wasn't particularly feminine! I can just see all kinds of awkward situations here by asking, "So, Janet....which pronouns do you prefer?" and getting a totally blank stare.

 

I dunno, I ask alot of people how I should address them, do they prefer mr or mrs so and so, or on a first name basis etc. If you don't know if they are actually transgendered then you likely don't know them well at all it would still be socially acceptable to ask how they prefer to be addressed anyway.

[stripe]

21st Century problems.

 

Life used to be simpler. We all knew what gender we were. Lord.

I have to say, there is a history of various issues with this, ranging from hermaphrodites to eunuchs. Both the Bible and the Quran refer to such people, and the Catholic Church used to have castrated men sing, for their higher voices.

 

I dunno, I ask alot of people how I should address them, do they prefer mr or mrs so and so, or on a first name basis etc. If you don't know if they are actually transgendered then you likely don't know them well at all it would still be socially acceptable to ask how they prefer to be addressed anyway.

I would be rather surprised and irritated if someone called me "Mr." In fact I know a guy with a high voice who was asked this over the phone, and he was quite shocked and insulted.