Still trying to figure out grammar for next year - help please? Interested in R&S possibly

[Wonder]

This year my DD (3rd grade) did Abeka Language (some of Grade 2 and almost all of gr. 3 (skipped much of the writing stuff)). She did really well with SOME parts of Abeka, but other parts were just "too much" - not a gentle enough intro. Maybe there just wasn't enough instruction on my part. I would go over "new" things (but maybe not enough), but it seemed she struggled with the independent aspect. Currently, we've been doing FLL3, and that has gone better, but we're only up to lesson 25 and would like to have a break for grammar over the summer (will probably be working on math through the summer). I think she enjoys doing grammar with mom the WHOLE time, but I also think she gets a bit tired of the repetition (although I realize it's essential for retention :)).

 

I'm curious about Rod and Staff. On the website, I can't seem to find a sample of the student text. It looks like it's not "workbook" style? I'm not sure my DD is ready to have to transfer everything over to another piece of paper, but I'm just curious to know how others' kiddos have done with R&S. How long does it take to "teach" a lesson? Are the lessons daily?

 

I don't think I want to go with GWG from what I've read about it. And I think MCT is too expensive for our budget. Are there any other suggestions?

 

Is it possible to jump into FLL4 even if we haven't finished FLL3?

 

I will also have two 1st graders, and would like to figure out what to use for them as well.

[Hunter]

 

Climbing to Good English is an Amish workbook series that is similar to Rod and Staff.

[fiberdrunk]

 

I'm curious about Rod and Staff. On the website, I can't seem to find a sample of the student text. It looks like it's not "workbook" style? I'm not sure my DD is ready to have to transfer everything over to another piece of paper, but I'm just curious to know how others' kiddos have done with R&S. How long does it take to "teach" a lesson? Are the lessons daily?

 

 

 

Is it possible to jump into FLL4 even if we haven't finished FLL3?

 

I will also have two 1st graders, and would like to figure out what to use for them as well.

 

 

 

WTM recommends FLL for grades 1-4. Bauer hasn't finished a grammar series for the logic stage (grades 5-8) yet, so she recommends the Rod & Staff grammar series for then. FLL is good preparation for Rod & Staff. They are similar in some ways (occasional diagramming, learn the parts of speech, etc.) There is a separate workbook booklet and test booklet available for Rod & Staff, though each lesson has plenty of exercises without the workbook booklet. We usually do the exercises in the book orally (except for when there's something like diagramming) and then do the worksheet from the booklet. We spend about an hour daily, usually Monday through Thursday. There are 115 lessons in the 5th grade book, so if you divide that by the number of weeks in your school year, that should give you an idea of how many days a week you would need to spend on lessons.

[Wonder]

Climbing to Good English is an Amish workbook series that is similar to Rod and Staff.

 

Do you know how well it covers things compared to R&S? How much "practice" it gives, etc.? It looks like the font/type is rather small and squished onto the page? My DD seems to get overwhelmed when things are crammed onto the page, but maybe not if you only do 1 page at a time? How many pages/lessons are there? For example - in the 4th grade book? Anything else you can tell me about it, especially in comparison to R&S?

[gratitude]

I have taught English 2 for R&S, and I am at the end of English 2 the second time and at the end of English 3.

 

I Love it! My boys are so-so about it, truthfully, but they don't complain about it and best of all they do retain it. So it works for us. This doesn't mean it will work for you, but I have found it to be an exceptional English program. It is thorough and solid and what WTM recommended before Susan Bauer wrote some of her own. It lays a solid foundation, goes incrementally, has some review built in, has one topic per unit for 5 units a year, and builds on what it has done before. My boys are definitely learning English and can apply it in other situations.

 

It is mastery, but has review often at the end of a lesson. English 3 has 125 lessons for the year, plus reviews at the end of each unit, plus unit tests: around 150 days worth.

 

It is text book. For English 2 I do a lot orally. I have found it works best for grade 2. For grade 3 I build the writing until they are writing the entire assignment. It takes about 40 minutes written as long as he stays with it.

 

I do plan to continue with R&S. I feel like this is one area in our home school that gets done easily, is building nicely year to year, and really help them learn how to write and leave them off in a very solid place for English by the end of 10th grade. I plan to use it for my 3rd born too.

[Ellie]

You can get free samples by calling the publisher at (606) 522-4348. Then you can hold them in your hand and check them out--much better than a web site, IMHO. :-)

 

When a child uses a textbook, he doesn't "transfer everything to another piece of paper." He reads the lesson, then carefully reads the directions for the activities, and writes what is necessary on paper. Sometimes that might be only the correct punctuation, or only the words which need to be correctly capitalized, and so on. Did you never use textbooks in school?

 

R&S is more than just grammar. If you want only grammar, then you're looking at something like Easy Grammar. R&S's English texts are comprehensive grammar *and* writing, and learning to use resource materials such as dictionaries and thesaurus, and public speaking, and more.

[Hunter]

 

Do you know how well it covers things compared to R&S? How much "practice" it gives, etc.? It looks like the font/type is rather small and squished onto the page? My DD seems to get overwhelmed when things are crammed onto the page, but maybe not if you only do 1 page at a time? How many pages/lessons are there? For example - in the 4th grade book? Anything else you can tell me about it, especially in comparison to R&S?

 

I don't own R&S. Back in the late 90s I had a older version of grade 8, but that is the only book I've seen.

 

The lower CGE grades have daily lessons. The upper levels have lessons for 3 days a week, with supplementary grammar lessons for the other 2 days if you want them. I preferred to repeat the generic writing lessons instead of reviewing grammar.

 

I don't hava access to my CGE workbooks right now and haven't used them in a few months. I own the entire series. There are threads here that I have posted in, about CGE.

[kaymom]

You can find samples online here. http://www.milestonebooks.com/list/building_christian_english_series/. We've used it for 4th grade and it really grew on us. We'd spend about 30 minutes a day 4 days a week and usually did the lessons orally or on the white board. We did use the tests and also used the worksheets for extra practice. Otherwise there would be way too much writing IMO since the book is a text and not a consumable.

[rwjx2khsmj]

We do FLL for a grammar intro then R&S for grades 2-5. Analytical Grammar follows in grades 6-8. After that we move on to Elements of Style and The Oxford Essential Guide to Writing. R&S is a complete program (grammar and writing). I've got children that love to write so we add on assignments from history or Writing Strands. For the most part a lesson in R&S takes about 20-30 minutes. At lower grades they read the lesson aloud then do the exercises orally. For older grades they read the lesson silently then do the exercises aloud. There's a lot of repetition within a lesson. The classroom exercises are often very similar to the independent exercises. When that's the case we do odd numbers only or if my child answers the first five correctly we skip the remainder. If there is diagramming, we usually do that on a dry erase board. Writing lessons are done in notebooks.

[Ellie]

I know that Milestone Ministries has the samples on-line, but I recommend getting the samples from the publisher (R&S doesn't have a web site) so you can hold them in your hand and look at them. :-)

[boscopup]

I'm curious about Rod and Staff. On the website, I can't seem to find a sample of the student text. It looks like it's not "workbook" style? I'm not sure my DD is ready to have to transfer everything over to another piece of paper, but I'm just curious to know how others' kiddos have done with R&S. How long does it take to "teach" a lesson? Are the lessons daily?

 

Writing from the textbook onto paper is really quite easy. Usually, it's just one word for an exercise. It's no more writing than she would do in a workbook. And 3rd graders are typically capable of learning to use a textbook in this manner. Just teach the basics of which direction the paper goes, where to start numbering/writing, etc. I had to be explicit with my son ("The red line is your friend!"), but once I taught him how to use separate paper, it's been easy. And he's writing phobic.

 

I spend about 5 minutes teaching a lesson, and then it takes my son maybe 10-15 minutes to do the lesson exercises on his own. I only assign about half the exercises, and any diagramming is done on the white board, and I pick 2 or 3 different "types" of diagrams for him to do, even if it's a list of 10 there. I wouldn't make him diagram 10 sentences. It comes up often enough that we don't need to do that. ;)

 

Is it possible to jump into FLL4 even if we haven't finished FLL3?

 

 

Yes! All 4 books start at the beginning.

 

I will also have two 1st graders, and would like to figure out what to use for them as well.

 

 

FLL1 is great for 1st grade. It's completely oral and includes poetry memorization, discussion of family members, memorizing address and phone number, things like that. Plus they get a very gentle intro to grammar. Just feel free to skip some of the noun lessons if your children get it early on (there are about 45 lessons on common vs. proper nouns, with other lessons inbetween). I'll be using FLL1 with my first grader this next school year. If he finishes early like DS1 did, we'll move on to FLL2 (I have that too).

[Juliegmom]

My dd LOVES workbooks. I was concerned that there would be a lot of complaining and whining about using R&S. It's been a hit for us this year and I plan to continue with it. Keep in mind that a lot of the exercises can be done orally. You can decide how much writing you feel is necessary. The lessons can usually be done in as little as 15 minutes. I find it to be a gentle, but steady progression in grammar. We haven't gotten there yet, but I like that it will also cover some writing topics.

[Wonder]

Thanks everyone. At this point, we may just do FLL3/4 next year since she seems to really enjoy doing grammar "with mom." If we do go that route, is it fairly easy to jump from FLL4 to R&S 5? Boscopup, did you switch to R&S after FLL 1/2? And why didn't you stick with FLL? Just curious. :) At this point, DD9 has only had FLL3, but I'm trying to also think ahead for my upcoming 1st graders. :)