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DragonFaerie
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I was reading the other thread about boys in the ladies' room, and it brought to mind sort of the opposite problem that I had recently. My DS is 10 and uses the men's room by himself. If he has a problem, he can yell and I can go storming in, Angry Mama-style. However, at the mall recently, I needed to use the restroom, but what to do with DS? I wasn't comfortable leaving him standing alone in the mall outside the ladies' room (right next to the very crowded foot court area), so I made him come in with me. I didn't really like that idea either, but what else was there to do? When is a boy old enough to wait alone while mom uses the restroom?

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I was reading the other thread about boys in the ladies' room, and it brought to mind sort of the opposite problem that I had recently. My DS is 10 and uses the men's room by himself. If he has a problem, he can yell and I can go storming in, Angry Mama-style. However, at the mall recently, I needed to use the restroom, but what to do with DS? I wasn't comfortable leaving him standing alone in the mall outside the ladies' room (right next to the very crowded foot court area), so I made him come in with me. I didn't really like that idea either, but what else was there to do? When is a boy old enough to wait alone while mom uses the restroom?

 

 

I actually think this is a more complicated problem than sending a boy into a restroom alone.

 

I asked other moms or old ladies/old couples if they'd watch my kid(s) while I went to the bathroom. A few times, I had them wait at the counter of a fastfood restaurant and told the workers what I was doing.

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Fancier department stores like Nordstrom make this a little easier. They usually have a sitting area outside the restroom, but still inside the door from crowded store. I've had my children sit in there on occasion when I've had to use the restroom. I seek out the nice department stores in the mall for this specific purpose, even if I can't afford to shop there!

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My son is 11. I have no problem leaving him outside the bathroom. Around 8 he started balking at having to go in and by 9 there was no way he was stepping foot inside a girls bathroom under any circumstance. At 11 I will stand him right by the door and I'll sometimes leave my 5 yo with him. When older DS was younger I would try to find a family restroom and make him go in.

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Next to a food court, I probably would have found him a table to sit at to wait. I wouldn't think anything of a 10-year-old sitting alone for a few minutes.

 

I think a lot of this depends on where you live. In our city, I wouldn't have any trouble sitting my boys at a table and asking someone nearby to keep an eye on them. When we were in Ireland last year, a woman put her 7-year-old granddaughter on the train in Waterford and asked us to watch out for her until her mom picked her up at the station in Cork. But, when we stopped in New York on the way home, I tried to convince Dh that our kids were young enough for leashes. :p

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It really depends on the venue and the level of congestion.

 

I almost never worry about Punk waiting outside the restroom, but sometimes I will make Bug go in with me, sometimes I will let him wait with his brother. I almost never leave Sister outside the restroom, but that is more about her fighting with her brothers and having zero concern about being separated from the group. (I have never known a kid to wander like she does! *sigh*)

 

The last time I insisted Punk come inside the women's room I just had him stand by the door. No one seemed irritated. Although, truthfully, I would not have much cared if someone was. I try to be mindful of others' needs and feelings whenever possible, but my family is also part of society. Just as we accommodate others I expect to occasionally be accommodated. If someone called me out for it I would be embarrassed, because I do not like confrontation, but I would not necessarily change course.

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Both of mine at 10 were more than capable of looking out for themselves for the two or three minutes it took me to use the restroom. At that age I wouldn't even give it a second thought, especially at a food court. I would've found an empty table near the restroom and told them to stay parked there until I came back.

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My boys wait outside, it's no big deal. I give them very clear parameters of where they can be and warn them to behave. It's never been an issue. My 8yo even sits at a table in a restaurant while I go if necessary and we're alone. He knows the rules, and it's a public place so if someone tries to snatch him (highly unlikely) he knows to yell "you're not my mom" or "you're not my dad" and get as much attention as possible. But I will admit that I've been a much looser parent (as in supervision) since visiting Japan. I learned a lot there, and while our culture is not the same, I realized that I don't need to helicopter as much as I have been.

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This problem has never come up. Usually when we go to the big city for shopping or traveling we are together. If I have to go dd stays with dh. If we are out and about in town we've gone prior to leaving home. There just isn't enough to do in town to need another potty break until we get home.

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It's funny because at the grocery store or in a restaurant, I don't really worry about it. Even in Target, I'll let him browse the dollar section right out side the restrooms. But for some reason, the crowded mall seems much scarier.

 

 

We have three malls we visit semi-regularly, two of them never worry me because of the layout. The other though........

I really try not to go when we are there. Or I go into a department store.

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The only time I've left my ds10 outside alone at the mall, I found a security guard nearby when I get out. I had given him strict instruction to make a huge amout of noise if anything weird started to happen. I guess I didn't have to worry. An unattended kid caught security's attention in no time at all. BTW the guard didn't address the issue, just loitered nearby. Hope he wasn't the weird fellow I'd worry about.

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it varies with location and child. I was so glad when my older sons were old enough I felt I could leave them -or send them into the men's restroom by themselves. then I started over . . . . he's getting closer.

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I was reading the other thread about boys in the ladies' room, and it brought to mind sort of the opposite problem that I had recently. My DS is 10 and uses the men's room by himself. If he has a problem, he can yell and I can go storming in, Angry Mama-style. However, at the mall recently, I needed to use the restroom, but what to do with DS? I wasn't comfortable leaving him standing alone in the mall outside the ladies' room (right next to the very crowded foot court area), so I made him come in with me. I didn't really like that idea either, but what else was there to do? When is a boy old enough to wait alone while mom uses the restroom?

Man Tries To Abduct 11-Year-Old Boy From Albertson's Restroom

Registered Sex Offender Attacks 10-Year-Old Boy in Wendy's Bathroom 9-Year-Old Boy Killed In Public Restroom While Aunt Waits Outside Man Attacks 8-Year-Old In Park Bathroom Man Reaches Under Stall In Attempt To Snatch 7-Year-Old In Bookstore 6-Year-Old Molested in Park Bathroom After Soccer Match 7-Year-Old Sexually Assaulted In Restroom While Mom Orders Food At Burger King 7-Year-Old Attacked in Target Restroom 11-Year-Old Boy Sexually Assaulted in Park Restroom Sex Offender Assaults 13-Year-Old Boy in LIBRARY RESTROOM The reason I've posted all these links is not to argue for any particular age or standards. Different parents have different standards, kids have varying levels of strength/maturity, and venues/living areas have different levels of safety. My point is that obviously people have different comfort levels with respect to age (look at the variety in the stories, from age 6 through 13), and the venues run from kinda dangerous (park) to what most of us would imagine to be safe (library). Now that I think about it, one of my highschool teachers was raped in a large public library (in a stairwell). So I would just say that all parents need to make their own judgments based on their own child and situation. But also, to be VERY aware that there are offenders out there who are looking for an *opportunity* -- maybe imagine to yourself, "if an adult with a bad intention came across my child in the situation I'm intending to leave him/her in, could the child handle it successfully?" That's the question I try to ask myself. I feel fortunate to have two children of similar ages who are usually together (11 and 13) but even then I'm right outside the door.

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Man Tries To Abduct 11-Year-Old Boy From Albertson's Restroom

Registered Sex Offender Attacks 10-Year-Old Boy in Wendy's Bathroom 9-Year-Old Boy Killed In Public Restroom While Aunt Waits Outside Man Attacks 8-Year-Old In Park Bathroom Man Reaches Under Stall In Attempt To Snatch 7-Year-Old In Bookstore 6-Year-Old Molested in Park Bathroom After Soccer Match 7-Year-Old Sexually Assaulted In Restroom While Mom Orders Food At Burger King 7-Year-Old Attacked in Target Restroom 11-Year-Old Boy Sexually Assaulted in Park Restroom Sex Offender Assaults 13-Year-Old Boy in LIBRARY RESTROOM The reason I've posted all these links is not to argue for any particular age or standards. Different parents have different standards, kids have varying levels of strength/maturity, and venues/living areas have different levels of safety. My point is that obviously people have different comfort levels with respect to age (look at the variety in the stories, from age 6 through 13), and the venues run from kinda dangerous (park) to what most of us would imagine to be safe (library). Now that I think about it, one of my highschool teachers was raped in a large public library (in a stairwell). So I would just say that all parents need to make their own judgments based on their own child and situation. But also, to be VERY aware that there are offenders out there who are looking for an *opportunity* -- maybe imagine to yourself, "if an adult with a bad intention came across my child in the situation I'm intending to leave him/her in, could the child handle it successfully?" That's the question I try to ask myself. I feel fortunate to have two children of similar ages who are usually together (11 and 13) but even then I'm right outside the door.

 

 

 

This is the kind of post and thinking that is not really helpful or informed, I'm afraid. It's a bit like using the 3 women held captive for 10 years as a reason to never be out and about, doing errands or living life.

 

I personally would rather be informed about the statistics of risk, and reading about offender behavior/thinking than hypervigilence about "offenders looking for opportunity."

 

Kids are more at risk, much more at risk, at Little League, church, and Thanksgiving dinner with people they know.

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I would have no concerns leaving a 10 yr old alone outside the restroom, assuming it is a high traffic area. I really don't like it when public restrooms are down corridors leading to emergency exits, though, as is often the case here. But an 8 or 10 yr old should be able to sit or stand alone in a public area for 10 minutes, and know not to move and to call for help should someone try to get them to move before a parent returns.

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This is the kind of post and thinking that is not really helpful or informed, I'm afraid. It's a bit like using the 3 women held captive for 10 years as a reason to never be out and about, doing errands or living life.

 

I personally would rather be informed about the statistics of risk, and reading about offender behavior/thinking than hypervigilence about "offenders looking for opportunity."

 

Kids are more at risk, much more at risk, at Little League, church, and Thanksgiving dinner with people they know.

I'm sure the parents of all the kids involved above thought there was "little risk" in letting their kids go into those bathrooms. And yes, Thanksgiving dinner is a bigger risk, as many of us will die of heart disease. Nonetheless, we each have to make decisions about when it's safe to let our kids use a particular bathroom by themselves. I err on the side of caution.
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I'm sure the parents of all the kids involved above thought there was "little risk" in letting their kids go into those bathrooms. And yes, Thanksgiving dinner is a bigger risk, as many of us will die of heart disease. Nonetheless, we each have to make decisions about when it's safe to let our kids use a particular bathroom by themselves. I err on the side of caution.

 

 

 

I think children have a greater risk of being assaulted at Thanksgiving Dinner where extended family members have easy access to the children. I personally know of more than one case...

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i've had the same issue with my 9 year old. sometimes i'm not with my husband & my daughter is off at a friend's -- so it will just be me and my son. there is absolutely no way i'm leaving my little guy by himself in the food court mall while i use the bathroom. either we use the family restroom or he comes in with me and stands by the entrance inside. i especially can't stand rest areas. hands down i am not sending him into a bathroom with 20 stalls and two entrances into the bathroom. heck no. i don't feel bad at all about it. the circumstances for him to come with me aren't common, but when they arise, we stick together. last weekend we were at lowes, but the layout of the bathroom entrance allowed me to let him go in alone. i could still hear him because it was a big open entrance with no door -- so i could listen for him or ask, "how ya doing, bud?" and hear him easily.

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I always use the restroom at a department store. It is usually in a hallway in the women's department. Ds would wait outside the door of the ladies room in this hallway. There was little foot traffic and the women who work in that department are generally suspicious of a man lingering. Not as much help if the attacker is a woman but it offered me some peace of mind.

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I think children have a greater risk of being assaulted at Thanksgiving Dinner where extended family members have easy access to the children. I personally know of more than one case...

 

Okay, but that does not mean that "Thanksgiving Dinner" is as dangerous to a child as "a public restroom." That's comparing napkins to toilet paper. I know who is at my Thanksgiving Dinner, and that my children will not be assaulted there. I do NOT know who is in a public restroom, and whether or not my children will be assaulted there. So I take precautions with them until I feel they're old enough to handle themselves if a problem comes up. Such as an assault by an adult.

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Okay, but that does not mean that "Thanksgiving Dinner" is as dangerous to a child as "a public restroom." That's comparing napkins to toilet paper. I know who is at my Thanksgiving Dinner, and that my children will not be assaulted there. I do NOT know who is in a public restroom, and whether or not my children will be assaulted there. So I take precautions with them until I feel they're old enough to handle themselves if a problem comes up. Such as an assault by an adult.

 

That's just it. The fear of public restroom assault/crime is driven by a primal, visceral fear. It's exacerbated by the way such attacks are fodder for news ~ and both dynamics skew the perception of risk.

 

The overwhelming risk of assault to children is in homes, and at that Thanksgiving Dinner where you *do* know everyone.

 

Psychologically, it's more likely a kid can and will yell, run, scream if a stranger interacts with them physically vs. a known, trusted, and loved family member or friend.

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Statistics are okay until it is your kid who is the statistic.

 

I understand this point. If it is your kid, it's 100%. The same risk-view could be used with regard to vaccine reactions, car seat installation, botched circumcisions, etc.

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That's just it. The fear of public restroom assault/crime is driven by a primal, visceral fear. It's exacerbated by the way such attacks are fodder for news ~ and both dynamics skew the perception of risk.

 

The overwhelming risk of assault to children is in homes, and at that Thanksgiving Dinner where you *do* know everyone.

 

Psychologically, it's more likely a kid can and will yell, run, scream if a stranger interacts with them physically vs. a known, trusted, and loved family member or friend.

 

Out of curiosity, do you have the stats on both sexual assault (including flashing) in both public restrooms and by friends and family?

 

It seems as if both are pretty close just because of the nature of the crimes. And both get ample warnings from the experts.

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This is the kind of post and thinking that is not really helpful or informed, I'm afraid. It's a bit like using the 3 women held captive for 10 years as a reason to never be out and about, doing errands or living life.

 

 

I disagree. I think it's like using the three abducted women to point out that you don't accept rides from people.

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If there are lots of people around, it's probably safe to leave such a big kid among said people, unless there is some reason to believe they are all nasty people. The chance that something is going to happen to a child in public while other adults casually look on is practically nil. If you're really worried, maybe mention to the mom nearest your son that you're going to be right back and would she mind being aware of your son sitting there. ... Now if you're in some deserted spot such as a rest stop at night, might as well take the kid in with you since you will probably be about the only people there. Just holler to let other women know and make him stay in a stall rather than putz around looking at people.

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I must have missed that they all three willingly got into a car with him.

 

 

In his suicide note, he blamed them because they willingly got in his car. IDK what story he told Michelle Knight, but her missing person report noted that she was easily confused by her surroundings. He told Amanda Berry that his son worked at Burger King with her. He told Gina DeJesus that he would take her to play with his daughter. The DeJesus one was different in that she did actually know him, and we pointed that out in talking to DS about this: just because you know someone doesn't mean they're safe. Her "mistake" was that nobody else knew she got in his car. If she had told her parents that Arlene's dad was picking her up and taking her over to Arlene's house, I don't think he'd have been able to make her disappear.

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As for the extremely rare horror stories someone posted, why as women do we dare to go to the toilet alone? Rape of grown women is much more common than child molestation by strangers, my goodness. For that matter what kind of crazy woman would walk down the street alone? Go to work and have to return to a dark parking lot at the end of the day? My oh my. The human race would have been starved out long ago if we operated with this kind of mindset. This is the earth, where sh!t sometimes happens no matter how careful you are. Most of the kids who are hurt are in the direct care of their parents, or of someone their parents have entrusted them to. In fact, sometimes the thing that kills them was thought to be the safer choice (e.g., driving a child somewhere instead of letting her walk); many now-banned baby items; etc.).

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That's just it. The fear of public restroom assault/crime is driven by a primal, visceral fear. It's exacerbated by the way such attacks are fodder for news ~ and both dynamics skew the perception of risk.

 

The overwhelming risk of assault to children is in homes, and at that Thanksgiving Dinner where you *do* know everyone.

 

Psychologically, it's more likely a kid can and will yell, run, scream if a stranger interacts with them physically vs. a known, trusted, and loved family member or friend.

 

 

I know what's going on in my home. I don't know what's going on in a public restroom, necessarily. Just because there is "low risk" of having an accident on any single car trip doesn't mean I don't wear my seat belt because the risk is low.

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In his suicide note, he blamed them because they willingly got in his car. IDK what story he told Michelle Knight, but her missing person report noted that she was easily confused by her surroundings. He told Amanda Berry that his son worked at Burger King with her. He told Gina DeJesus that he would take her to play with his daughter. The DeJesus one was different in that she did actually know him, and we pointed that out in talking to DS about this: just because you know someone doesn't mean they're safe. Her "mistake" was that nobody else knew she got in his car. If she had told her parents that Arlene's dad was picking her up and taking her over to Arlene's house, I don't think he'd have been able to make her disappear.

 

All that may be true, but I hesitate to take it from just his side. He also said he was surprised at how young Dejesus was, yet she was his daughter's friend, so I dunno. Anyhoo, not really on topic here.

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When it comes to stranger danger, we watched the Safe Side video. It divides everyone into Don't Know, Kinda Know, Safe Side Adult. Everyone except 1-2 adults (usually Mom and Dad, maybe Grandma) are Don't know (strangers) or Kinda Know's (everyone else). It is a non scary way to approach the issue. It also gives a set of rules for how to respond to each category.

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I don't think anyone is saying the parent should send a kid (or even other adult) into a situation without having any sense of how safe/unsafe it might be. I'm sure there are restrooms that I would not use myself, as well as streets I wouldn't walk down etc. But I have a problem with the trend toward paranoia that I sometimes see. Just because there are places that are unsafe for 10yos does not mean 10yos are unsafe alone in public, period. And I do not agree that forcing a middle-school boy to come into the women's toilet (without a darn good reason) is a benign decision. It's weird, I'm sorry. Would you let your son sleep in my bed with me, too? Or try on the merchandise in the ladies' lingerie section? I mean, after all, he'd be safe, but would it be healthy?

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As for the extremely rare horror stories someone posted, why as women do we dare to go to the toilet alone? Rape of grown women is much more common than child molestation by strangers, my goodness. For that matter what kind of crazy woman would walk down the street alone? Go to work and have to return to a dark parking lot at the end of the day? My oh my. The human race would have been starved out long ago if we operated with this kind of mindset. This is the earth, where sh!t sometimes happens no matter how careful you are. Most of the kids who are hurt are in the direct care of their parents, or of someone their parents have entrusted them to. In fact, sometimes the thing that kills them was thought to be the safer choice (e.g., driving a child somewhere instead of letting her walk); many now-banned baby items; etc.).

 

 

That doesn't mean we throw up our hands and say, "Oh well! There's a better chance my kid will be assaulted at my Thanksgiving dinner!" and then just send them marching into any old restroom at any old age. You need to make judgments about your child and the particular situation. I think people tend to assume "certain" situations are safer. Like maybe a Target store or a grocery store restroom would be safe. Not necessarily.

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I don't think anyone is saying the parent should send a kid (or even other adult) into a situation without having any sense of how safe/unsafe it might be. I'm sure there are restrooms that I would not use myself, as well as streets I wouldn't walk down etc. But I have a problem with the trend toward paranoia that I sometimes see. Just because there are places that are unsafe for 10yos does not mean 10yos are unsafe alone in public, period. And I do not agree that forcing a middle-school boy to come into the women's toilet (without a darn good reason) is a benign decision. It's weird, I'm sorry. Would you let your son sleep in my bed with me, too? Or try on the merchandise in the ladies' lingerie section? I mean, after all, he'd be safe, but would it be healthy?

 

WHAT?!?

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In his suicide note, he blamed them because they willingly got in his car. IDK what story he told Michelle Knight, but her missing person report noted that she was easily confused by her surroundings. He told Amanda Berry that his son worked at Burger King with her. He told Gina DeJesus that he would take her to play with his daughter. The DeJesus one was different in that she did actually know him, and we pointed that out in talking to DS about this: just because you know someone doesn't mean they're safe. Her "mistake" was that nobody else knew she got in his car. If she had told her parents that Arlene's dad was picking her up and taking her over to Arlene's house, I don't think he'd have been able to make her disappear.

 

I'm with SKL...I wouldn't take it from just his side.

 

So, I wouldn't say they accepted a ride from him.

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I'm with SKL...I wouldn't take it from just his side.

 

So, I wouldn't say they accepted a ride from him.

 

That wasn't just from his side, only the first sentence that mentioned the note was. The rest was from family statements and what the women told police from what I understand.

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That doesn't mean we throw up our hands and say, "Oh well! There's a better chance my kid will be assaulted at my Thanksgiving dinner!" and then just send them marching into any old restroom at any old age. You need to make judgments about your child and the particular situation. I think people tend to assume "certain" situations are safer. Like maybe a Target store or a grocery store restroom would be safe. Not necessarily.

In real life, it's the mother with the boy who is making the decision. The mother is right there and has enough information to know whether the place is patently unsafe for the child. What concerns me is that there's a trend toward moms thinking their sons are more helpless than they really are; or that here are a lot more child predators than there really are. And also, that the general public could care less if a 10yo boy was being dragged away kicking and screaming. I don't think we give "strangers" as much credit as they (we) deserve.

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In real life, it's the mother with the boy who is making the decision. The mother is right there and has enough information to know whether the place is patently unsafe for the child. What concerns me is that there's a trend toward moms thinking their sons are more helpless than they really are; or that here are a lot more child predators than there really are. And also, that the general public could care less if a 10yo boy was being dragged away kicking and screaming. I don't think we give "strangers" as much credit as they (we) deserve.

 

I routinely drag my child away kicking and screaming and no one has ever said a word to or about me for it.

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eh. i just don't see taking a boy to the bathroom with you as a precautionary as being over the top. we aren't talking about a 12 year old in middle school, but 10 year old boys (which is 4th grade here). it really isn't a huge deal to tell your son, "this place is too big and too busy for me to comfortably leave you unsupervised. come with me to be on the safe side". my son is only 9. he is just a little boy and still small enough to sit in my lap. the nearest mall to me is panama city beach. it is overcrowded & very touristy. i can't imagine leaving him there for five minutes alone.

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