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What is the point of the Duke TIP program?


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Local university has a program kids can participate in if they're in TiP. We're not doing it this summer but may next. Discounts on Duke TiP courses.

 

 

I spent a bit of time on the site, but I didn't see a list of programs. Is that information provided after you join or do I need to look harder? Are the courses worth joining for if we don't get anything else out of it?

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Take a look at http://www.tip.duke.edu/node/238 for a listing of the programs available to 7th/8th graders. For other grades you can go to the top and hit "students" to get the drop downs for it. The independent learning ones are reasonably priced, others not so much in my opinion. There are some free things for 4th/5th grade. We did TIP in 5th grade, tested with the EXPLORE in 8th, rejoined in 7th (you have to requalify), and did the ACT this year as 7th graders. The ACT (but not the SAT) covers our state yearly required testing and these all give experience with large group testing, which was useful to us.

 

We are getting ready to do the SAT in June as well based on her scores in language on the ACT. It's not TIP, but if you have a child who can score highly enough on the SAT *before they turn 13* there is a free program through Johns Hopkins for which they will qualify. http://cty.jhu.edu/set/ You can list this program on the SAT as a place to send scores if you think your child might qualify.

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Why is taking the SAT in 7th grade desirable? I know people do it sometimes, but I don't know why.

 

Taking tests designed for older students (testing out of grade level) helps give a better picture of what a gifted or accelerated child actually knows. On a test geared towards my son's grade level, he typically will hit the ceiling and I end up with very little usable information. Since we live in a state that requires yearly testing, I figure I should at least use it to get a good sense of what he knows/doesn't know!

 

From the Duke TIP website:

Why above-level testing?

Some gifted students may "bump their heads" against the ceilings of tests and assessment devices used to evaluate the abilities of students in their grade level. Score results for these students may suggest that they are bright, without providing more specific and substantial information.

Students who score at the highest levels on grade-level testing devices may need higher degrees of difficulty to differentiate these students' level and depth of knowledge. For example, two students may appear identical on a grade-level assessment, scoring at the 99th percentile. However, when given an above-level test, these students could be quite different (i.e., one scoring at the 75th percentile and another at the 25th percentile).

When approached carefully, above-level testing can offer valuable feedback. Such testing may be appropriate when a student:

  • scores at the top of the range on grade-level assessment devices;
  • consistently makes excellent grades without studying or apparent effort;
  • indicates high ability through regular testing but makes surprisingly low grades in the classroom;
  • and wants to know more about the degree and nature of his or her academic strengths.

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:iagree:

 

We tested for that reason-DD has this annoying habit of hitting the ceiling on tests, so testing with the EXPLORE at just turned 8 gave us a test where she didn't hit the ceiling. That and, I have to have SOME test on file anyway, so talent search testing at least is more challenging and less boring for DD (and only requires ONE day of my twiddling my thumbs).

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I did Johns Hopkins CTY rather than Duke TIP, because of the state I grew up in. It was a life-changing experience for me. I came from a poor background where nobody really cared about how smart I was, and I didn't really have anybody advocating for me. Qualifying for CTY put me on the radar of school counselors & administrators. Attending CTY summer camp (with kids from mainly affluent backgrounds who attended private schools) gave me a first glimpse at the idea that there were other smart kids out there who were doing a whole lot more than me. Getting recruitment mail from top colleges when I was only a 7th grader made me aware of college admissions. I went to the library and checked out college guides. I figured out what classes I needed to take in high school and what I needed to do to get into college. I figured out what I would need to earn scholarships, since financial aid wasn't an option (very poor, but I couldn't apply for financial aid since my mother would not help me by providing tax forms). I was the first person in my family to attend college . . . on scholarship. My family was homeless when I left for college. I literally got on a plane at 17 and flew to another state to attend a college I had never even visited before. These programs find children who would otherwise be missed. They open up opportunities for children who don't even know what to aim for, because it doesn't exist in their world. These programs are not just about bragging rights for affluent parents. They change lives.

 

Why would a child who already has family support and access to educational information want to participate?

-To get an idea of their potential through out-of-level testing.

-To have an opportunity to take the SAT early (for practice or just early exposure).

-To gain opportunities to take advanced classes online or through summer camps.

-To have the opportunity to meet other profoundly gifted children.

 

If you or your child do not need any of these things, then feel free to pass up Duke TIP without feeling guilty. It is a wonderful program, though.

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It is one of the few programs designed for bright kids. So the courses are better quality than those available in most pre college level schools, and the other students are more comparable peers for gifted students. Our older son attended at least once and greatly enjoyed both the number theory course he took as well as the physics course. After returning he did not enjoy my attempt to continue the number theory course with him, which tells me the TIP instructor and the TIP course offered him an experience I could not replicate. I.e. TIP was fun, while my course was work.

 

He had a lot of fun there, and got the satisfaction of doing well in advanced courses. He also enjoyed meeting other gifted kids with similar interests. Our younger son may not have benefited from it as much, but I am not sure. To me TIP is like an oasis in a desert of pitifully inadequate schooling opportunities for gifted kids in the US.

 

I believe SAT tests in math only measure competence in math subjects traditionally taught up through the first half of sophomore year, i.e. elementary algebra and geometry, and the English test measures mainly vocabulary, so for home schooled kids who have studied these math topics, and who read widely, it is perfectly appropriate to take the test. There is a lot of literature out there on advanced schooling for the gifted, and this body of theory, plus the lessons of experience, guide the TIP and Johns Hopkins programs. I read as much of it as possible back in the day, seeking guidance in educating our kids, both of whom were bored to tears in public school.

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Take a look at http://www.tip.duke.edu/node/238 for a listing of the programs available to 7th/8th graders. For other grades you can go to the top and hit "students" to get the drop downs for it. The independent learning ones are reasonably priced, others not so much in my opinion. There are some free things for 4th/5th grade. We did TIP in 5th grade, tested with the EXPLORE in 8th, rejoined in 7th (you have to requalify), and did the ACT this year as 7th graders. The ACT (but not the SAT) covers our state yearly required testing and these all give experience with large group testing, which was useful to us.

 

We are getting ready to do the SAT in June as well based on her scores in language on the ACT. It's not TIP, but if you have a child who can score highly enough on the SAT *before they turn 13* there is a free program through Johns Hopkins for which they will qualify. http://cty.jhu.edu/set/ You can list this program on the SAT as a place to send scores if you think your child might qualify.

Thank you. I looked under the parent and educator tabs but not the student one.

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He had a lot of fun there, and got the satisfaction of doing well in advanced courses. He also enjoyed meeting other gifted kids with similar interests. Our younger son may not have benefited from it as much, but I am not sure. To me TIP is like an oasis in a desert of pitifully inadequate schooling opportunities for gifted kids in the US.

 

MinivanMom also mentioned gifted kids. Dd is accelerated and learns easily but isn't gifted. Would she be out of place? She does meet the requirement to join, I believe.

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Hmmm. I looked at the locations of some programs from Duke and John Hopkins. The only location that would be even remotely possible is KU. I'm not entirely sure which would be more painful - paying the tuition or allowing Dd attend KU for any reason. (I'm a K-Stater.)

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Actually, your student does not have to be enrolled in a talent search program to sign up for the SAT. You can arrange that yourself.

 

I know, but with TIP he was in a room with other students his own age and I got a report from TIP that compared his scores with other students his age.

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"Gifted" is to me just a word, and at least as I use it, accelerated is one of its possible definitions. Indeed IQ used to be defined as (mental age)/(chron. age), i.e. accelerated.

 

(E.g. at age 70, my 120 IQ seems to mean I have the mental agility of an 84 year old, but in fact many 84 year olds are much sharper. But since my mental acuity resembles more that of the 100 year olds in my family, my IQ must have gone up at least to 140.)

 

If the child qualifies to attend TIP, then that means that TIP thinks he/she would benefit, (and I do too). It may be better if the child does not consider himself gifted, since that may mean he will not be disappointed at meeting stronger students than himself.

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I did Johns Hopkins CTY rather than Duke TIP, because of the state I grew up in. It was a life-changing experience for me. I came from a poor background where nobody really cared about how smart I was, and I didn't really have anybody advocating for me. Qualifying for CTY put me on the radar of school counselors & administrators. Attending CTY summer camp (with kids from mainly affluent backgrounds who attended private schools) gave me a first glimpse at the idea that there were other smart kids out there who were doing a whole lot more than me. Getting recruitment mail from top colleges when I was only a 7th grader made me aware of college admissions. I went to the library and checked out college guides. I figured out what classes I needed to take in high school and what I needed to do to get into college. I figured out what I would need to earn scholarships, since financial aid wasn't an option (very poor, but I couldn't apply for financial aid since my mother would not help me by providing tax forms). I was the first person in my family to attend college . . . on scholarship. My family was homeless when I left for college. I literally got on a plane at 17 and flew to another state to attend a college I had never even visited before. These programs find children who would otherwise be missed. They open up opportunities for children who don't even know what to aim for, because it doesn't exist in their world. These programs are not just about bragging rights for affluent parents. They change lives.

 

Why would a child who already has family support and access to educational information want to participate?

-To get an idea of their potential through out-of-level testing.

-To have an opportunity to take the SAT early (for practice or just early exposure).

-To gain opportunities to take advanced classes online or through summer camps.

-To have the opportunity to meet other profoundly gifted children.

 

If you or your child do not need any of these things, then feel free to pass up Duke TIP without feeling guilty. It is a wonderful program, though.

 

 

That's amazing. So glad for you!

 

We are too late now, but I wish I'd known about it for my kids when they were younger, because it sounds interesting.

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I know, but with TIP he was in a room with other students his own age

 

you can't count on that, as it depends on the school. My DD (who took it through TIP) was in a room with a few younger student and mainly normal high school age students. Not a problem.

 

and I got a report from TIP that compared his scores with other students his age.

 

That information is available for free online:

http://legacy.mckinn... TIP Scores.pdf

 

ETA: I don't say this to discourage anybody from enrolling! Just to put the info out there- I did not know this myself back then.

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you can't count on that, as it depends on the school. My DD (who took it through TIP) was in a room with a few younger student and mainly normal high school age students. Not a problem.

 

 

 

That information is available for free online:

http://legacy.mckinn... TIP Scores.pdf

 

ETA: I don't say this to discourage anybody from enrolling! Just to put the info out there- I did not know this myself back then.

 

 

My daughter was also in a mixed group for the ACT and it wasn't an issue here either. Do note the free information is not for the current year, whereas the report you receive is for the one your child actually takes.Possibly not a big deal, but, as you say, in the interest of full information.

 

Oh, and some of the independent learning materials are also available to non-participants for a somewhat higher fee, if you read the descriptions.

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Here is some free information from our son's tenure at TIP: the number theory book used was by Underwood Dudley:

 

http://www.amazon.co...nderwood dudley

 

and the physics book used was by Lewis Epstein:

 

http://www.amazon.co...hinking physics

 

And here is the web page of Lenny Ng, a well known math professor at Duke now, who was also a young student (maybe 9 years old?) in our son's number theory class at TIP, with links to some math chats giving tips to youngsters on admission to Duke University, (and even to some crossword puzzles that Lenny made up as a college student - that exercise might entertain some of your kids):

 

http://www.math.duke.edu/~ng/

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The MIT admissions page for homeschooled applicants specifically references talent search programs including TIP. The competition to get into a good college these days is insane (my alma mater only accepted <6% of applicants this past cycle). Even my local Cal State has gone from accepting 2/3 of applicants to only 1/3. It's not enough these days to simply have good grades and SAT/ACT scores. Participating in TIP can only help bolster your student's application down the road.

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If you are on the west coast, where is the closest summer location? It looked to me like it was Texas. Is that right? There is nothing offered on the west coast at all?

 

I'm feeling rather down about the whole thing anyway. Whether or not the kids could qualify, I have my doubts that we could pay nearly $4000 a summer for them to go have an enriching experience on top of the travel required to get them there. I'm wondering if these kinds of programs are just not feasible for the middle class.

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There are lots of programs on the west coast. There are certainly math circles in the Palo Alto area.

 

Kathy in Richmond probably can help with advice. And I'll bet there are programs at the UW.

 

Math Path may also be cheaper, in Colorado Springs, (Minnesota this year):

 

http://www.mathpath.org/

 

and epsilon camp for younger kids, in Colorado Springs:

 

http://www.epsiloncamp.org/

 

 

 

Price is to be weighed against value. $4,000 is a lot, but some of the books I recommend are free.

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The MIT admissions page for homeschooled applicants specifically references talent search programs including TIP. The competition to get into a good college these days is insane (my alma mater only accepted <6% of applicants this past cycle). Even my local Cal State has gone from accepting 2/3 of applicants to only 1/3. It's not enough these days to simply have good grades and SAT/ACT scores. Participating in TIP can only help bolster your student's application down the road.

 

I remember one time you mentioned about going to Nevada for a test because the Bay Area does not have a test site. Is it CTY? The enrollment period will end next month and I was hoping that I could have DD take a test - at this point any test just to get something started. But driving too far does not seem worthwhile to me for a second grader.

 

This is one of those times I wish we were part of a school system. I remember my brother doing a jh talent search in 6th or 7th grade, but my parents were not involved. The school handled everything for him and we had no idea until the teachers informed us of his status.

 

I just looked up TIP, but it seems to be for 4th grader and higher.

 

ETA: Just signed up for CTY and I think we are supposed to take the SCAT and there are a few test centers in the Bay Area, but the test costs $60. I think it's computerized and DD is not good on the computer.

 

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For us, the pros to talent search testing were

 

1. Finding out where my kids stood in a talented pool of the top few percent: Duke (or CTY or any of the other regional talent searches) takes the SAT/ACT scores of these young kids and spreads them out on a bell curve of their own in math and in verbal. Finding out where mine stood relative to other gifted kids was interesting since we never had done any IQ testing. It validated what I thought I was seeing and gave me confidence to plan a very challenging program for them.

 

2. For the kids, the benefit was a chance to take the SAT (or ACT) in a low-stakes environment. It was a confidence booster, and later when it counted more, these high stakes tests were not so intimidating.

 

3. If they test high enough on either section, the kids are invited to a state award ceremony (not all that big a deal really, but my kids enjoyed it somewhat). If they test above 700 on either section as a seventh grader, or above 750 as an eighth grader, they are invited to the Grand Award ceremony at Johns Hopkins. Duke has a similar gathering for top TIP test takers. This was very well-done and the kids enjoyed going and spending the day, touring the campus, & making new friends.

 

4. If they top 700 on either section before age 13, they can become members of SET (Study of Exceptional Talent). It's run by CTY, but anyone can participate by sending in scores. They receive a magazine and newsletter, which the kids enjoy reading and often contained cool ideas of other programs to explore, and there's a private area on Cogito's website where the kids to meet & interact.

 

5. Talent search testing through CTY allows access to the STB (spatial test battery) exam. For my dd, this was an eye-opener. We were given advice and resource lists for educating visual spatial thinkers.

 

6. It looks good on their resume: We've listed it when applying for other programs; others knew what it meant.

 

If you are on the west coast, where is the closest summer location? It looked to me like it was Texas. Is that right? There is nothing offered on the west coast at all?

I'm feeling rather down about the whole thing anyway. Whether or not the kids could qualify, I have my doubts that we could pay nearly $4000 a summer for them to go have an enriching experience on top of the travel required to get them there. I'm wondering if these kinds of programs are just not feasible for the middle class.

 

There are lots of programs on the west coast. There are certainly math circles in the Palo Alto area.

 

Kathy in Richmond probably can help with advice. And I'll bet there are programs at the UW.

 

Math Path may also be cheaper, in Colorado Springs, (Minnesota this year):

http://www.mathpath.org/

 

and epsilon camp for younger kids, in Colorado Springs:

http://www.epsiloncamp.org/

Price is to be weighed against value. $4,000 is a lot, but some of the books I recommend are free.

 

The various talent search programs are supposed to have good financial aid. Probably would not include travel costs but it wouldn't hurt to apply & see what the aid package is.

 

FairProspects, CTY offers summer programsin Seattle. you should also take a look at the summer programs listings on the Cogito and hoagies websites. You can sort them by various criteria such as state location, age, and area of interest. There's a huge variety in terms of program length, cost, & type of interests!

 

Lots of these camps offer financial aid; some merit & some need based. It certainly can't hurt to apply. We (middle class) made too much to qualify for CTY's need based aid, but my kids went to various math camps on partial scholarships. The remaining expense was very much worthwhile here. They not only learned a lot and found adults to mentor them in their interest areas, but they also made like-minded friends who became good & lasting influences in their lives (priceless!) :001_smile:

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what is the definition of a 4th grader? if your 5 year old is working on a 4th grade level, is he a 4th grader?

 

My second grader is overall working above 4th grade level, but the birth year for her is not listed on TIP's online application. And, it would be weird to choose a different birth year.

 

 

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I remember one time you mentioned about going to Nevada for a test because the Bay Area does not have a test site. Is it CTY? The enrollment period will end next month and I was hoping that I could have DD take a test - at this point any test just to get something started. But driving too far does not seem worthwhile to me for a second grader.

 

This is one of those times I wish we were part of a school system. I remember my brother doing a jh talent search in 6th or 7th grade, but my parents were not involved. The school handled everything for him and we had no idea until the teachers informed us of his status.

 

I just looked up TIP, but it seems to be for 4th grader and higher.

 

ETA: Just signed up for CTY and I think we are supposed to take the SCAT and there are a few test centers in the Bay Area, but the test costs $60. I think it's computerized and DD is not good on the computer.

 

 

Oldest DD did take the EXPLORE test for C-MITES in Reno when she was in 3rd. We combined it with a weekend trip up to Lake Tahoe that we would've presumably taken in any case. The EXPLORE was a much cheaper option than an individual achievement test to meet a requirement for one particular program that we were interested in having DD apply for.

 

DS is on the waiting list for a full neuropsych eval and that will presumably include an individual achievement test so we may not bother with the EXPLORE for him. He's only in 1st so it's going to be a while before he could even take it.

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what is the definition of a 4th grader? if your 5 year old is working on a 4th grade level, is he a 4th grader?

 

 

Generally the talent searches ask for the student's birth date. C-MITES and CTY both accepted DD as a fall birthday young-for-grade student but I didn't try to register her for above her "official" grade level.

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Belin-Blank doesn't officially test until 4th, but will let your DC test earlier if they're regularly hitting ceilings on other tests if they're working regularly out of level and have shown the ability to handle group testing. You don't have to be in their area-DD was the only BESTS kid (and the only 3rd grader) testing at our local site, and except that her name was on a separate page (the registration sheets given to the site proctors are broken down by testing program and grade, so DD was on a page by herself), it was simple and smooth. Well, that and my just barely 8 yr old was a little small for the high school desk (she commented that her feet didn't reach the ground in the chair, and ended up sitting on a history book so she could comfortably write-I wish they'd taken a picture!)

 

What I've found is that programs that want EXPLORE scores of X don't care whether your DC was a 3rd grader or a 5th grader, at least not for online classes-you just have to score at x level on the EXPLORE before 7th grade or the SAT/ACT after 7th. I haven't looked at the physical ones, because the local ones are middle school focused and she's still very young.

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FairProspects, CTY offers summer programsin Seattle. you should also take a look at the summer programs listings on the Cogito and hoagies websites. You can sort them by various criteria such as state location, age, and area of interest. There's a huge variety in terms of program length, cost, & type of interests!

 

Lots of these camps offer financial aid; some merit & some need based. It certainly can't hurt to apply. We (middle class) made too much to qualify for CTY's need based aid, but my kids went to various math camps on partial scholarships. The remaining expense was very much worthwhile here. They not only learned a lot and found adults to mentor them in their interest areas, but they also made like-minded friends who became good & lasting influences in their lives (priceless!) :001_smile:

 

 

Hooray, some options that are actually in our area! My kids are still too young to apply for now, but great to keep in mind for the future. Ds would LOVE cryptology. Thanks!

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what is the definition of a 4th grader? if your 5 year old is working on a 4th grade level, is he a 4th grader?

 

It is what grade you would put them in if they would be in a traditional school. With a five year old I would say Kindergarten or 1st grade, if you put a five year old in fifth grade they are being compared to ten year old kids not other five year olds.

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I participated in TIP in the 80s and my oldest son does now. Because of TIP I graduated from high school a year early but more importantly, because of TIP I knew I wasn't alone. I got to spend 3 weeks every summer with "nerds" like me who were fun, smart, quirky, beautiful/handsome, and cool. No one was afraid to raise their hand; no one was made fun of for being smart; and best of all - there were tons of kids SMARTER than me :)

 

Now that my son is in TIP, there is also CTY. I can honestly say that he has enjoyed the CTY offerings more but we have done some of both. TIP and CTY both have spent decades studying gifted education. They are advocates for gifted education and understand that the top 5% are as different from the normal child as the bottom 5% and deserve to have their needs met as well.

 

If you have a child that can participate in either of these programs, I would STRONGLY encourage it. They will never forget it.

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That's amazing. So glad for you!

 

We are too late now, but I wish I'd known about it for my kids when they were younger, because it sounds interesting.

 

We knew about it and I got an invitation. But we didn't even pursue it because I knew we couldn't afford it.

 

This description... makes me wish we'd looked into it. Maybe there were scholarships or something. It would have been nice to be challenged even if only for a summer. Maybe it would have changed things in between.

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Thank you for this eye-opening thread. I have been on the fence and couldn't understand the benefits. I had no idea that there were so many CTY offerings within a couple of hours from us! Intensive physics, too!! And, Kathy, thank you for the cogito link - wow!

 

I am now going to sign ds13 up for the June SAT. He is very excited, as he enjoys doing the SAT Daily Questions of the day (although I find those easy compared to the real deal).

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We knew about it and I got an invitation. But we didn't even pursue it because I knew we couldn't afford it.

 

This description... makes me wish we'd looked into it. Maybe there were scholarships or something. It would have been nice to be challenged even if only for a summer. Maybe it would have changed things in between.

 

Yes, there is financial aid!!

 

I just wanted to add that as an FYI for those who have not pursued Duke TIP or Johns Hopkins CTY due to the high cost of the summer programs. Both programs offer financial aid. CTY also offers scholarships for those who come from low-income backgrounds, rural areas, or underserved populations. Even if you don't think you would qualify for financial aid or that you might be right on the line, I think it's worth applying for the aid. The worse they can do is tell you no.

 

My personal experience with CTY (back in the early 90's) was that the vast majority of students come from relatively affluent backgrounds, so I don't know that they are overwhelmed with applications for financial aid. I know that I saw a chart once for Duke TIP's financial aid cutoffs and was very surprised by how high your income could be to still qualify for 50% aid. I don't want to spread false hope (and if anyone knows more about the financial aid cutoffs for either program then feel free to correct me), but many people don't realize that they may qualify. I do know that Duke TIP financial aid operates on a "first come, first served" basis, so the earlier you apply for aid the better. I'm not sure whether CTY has a similar policy.

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Pineapplehorse reminds me from my days of reading their literature, that the gifted advocates at TIP and CTY point out the need for gifted kids to have some documentation of their achievements, that they can use to leverage opportunities available from public and private schools, and to help get recognition and entrance to college and scholarships. Thus they offer not just education but also certificates and official recognition. This is a real issue, since opportunities are given out based on documentation of eligibility.

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Lisabees: This is OT, but I read your signature, and I am intrigued about Bill Gates Big History Project. How are you liking it? Do you participate independently or through one of the pilot schools?

 

I'll send you a PM. :) We are very pleased with it. We participate independently.

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Yes, there is financial aid!!

 

I just wanted to add that as an FYI for those who have not pursued Duke TIP or Johns Hopkins CTY due to the high cost of the summer programs. Both programs offer financial aid. CTY also offers scholarships for those who come from low-income backgrounds, rural areas, or underserved populations. Even if you don't think you would qualify for financial aid or that you might be right on the line, I think it's worth applying for the aid. The worse they can do is tell you no.

 

My personal experience with CTY (back in the early 90's) was that the vast majority of students come from relatively affluent backgrounds, so I don't know that they are overwhelmed with applications for financial aid. I know that I saw a chart once for Duke TIP's financial aid cutoffs and was very surprised by how high your income could be to still qualify for 50% aid. I don't want to spread false hope (and if anyone knows more about the financial aid cutoffs for either program then feel free to correct me), but many people don't realize that they may qualify. I do know that Duke TIP financial aid operates on a "first come, first served" basis, so the earlier you apply for aid the better. I'm not sure whether CTY has a similar policy.

 

 

A quick google shows that CTY financial aid limits are typically around 50K but TIP has very middle class friendly aid of ~40% available at income ranges from 70-100K depending on family size.

 

See http://www.tip.duke.edu/node/1309 I understand it may still be a heavy lift to cover even 60% or to cover the full amount if you are above the limits, but Duke is making an effort to include a more diverse student body. For both programs I would call to inquire if you are either rural or an ethnic minority.

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  • 1 month later...

Okay, I've read through the entire thread and I still have some questions. A third grader could take the SCAT to get into CTY, right? But the SCAT doesn't count for Davidson Gifted, correct? For Davidson Gifted, a third grader would need to do the ACT Explore. But I have no idea if the Explore is offered in our area (Seattle). Also CTY has summer classes in Seattle. So maybe figuring out how/where to take the SCAT would be best. Did I get that right? (Sorry for the lack of paragraphs, something's funny on my browser.) [New Paragraph!] If a kid is accepted into CTY does that also get them in to Davidson Gifted and TIP? Or, do you need to qualify separately for each thing?

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