Questions about Math Curriculum: Math Mammoth, CLE, and Singapore

[avazquez24]

This is a spin off on my other math threads I posted yesterday and today....so I'm now looking at MM, CLE, and Singapore and would love to hear input from others who use or have used them (you can read my other thread about how I'm using MUS and some issues I'm having w/ dd and ds).

First off, I know really nothing about these programs as I'm still pretty new to homeschooling (dd is 1st and ds kinder). I asked for everyone's favorite math programs (and least favorites), and after looking online at the sites of many curriculums, these were the 3 I was most interested in. So, ANY help/info regarding them would be helpful:)

 

 

1) Math Mammoth: Would this be solid as my only math curriculum, or would it work best if used with another program? I see they have the blue series by top and the light blue series which is a complete curriculum. I'm wondering which most people use? If I wanted to use it as my only math curriculum, is the the light blue series the way to go then? As far as I'm seeing, there are teacher manuals for it? Are there pages within the book then that are for the 'teacher' so I would know exactly how or what to teach them? or are the worksheets supposed to basically do that?

About how many lessons are there for the 1st or 2nd grade?

Any other info or input for a 'newbie' to MM would be great too!

 

2) Singapore: I spent some time on their site but I must admit I'm a little confused by everything lol. First off, I see they have US editions and Standards edition, what is the difference? Which do most people use and why? If it matters, I'm in California. Also, so, would I purchase the student workbook, teachers guide, AND Home inst guide? I've heard some say they had a hard time because they were confused on the way the material was taught.....method that's used that makes it way different from other programs? I just am wondering if I'm going to be completley confused teaching them (I was always fine with math and loved it though).

Again, any other info or input for a 'newbie' to Singapore would be great too!

 

3) CLE: This one I'm not completely sure about (other two are probably higher on my list), BUT I've seen many people post how they use and love it. First off, I see their items are broken down as 'light units', which sort of confuses me. So grade one has light units 101-110....can someone explain these 'light units'? Are there a certain number of lessons within each light unit?

Again, any other info or input for a 'newbie' to CLE would be appreciated!

 

I'm just not sure if I should stick w/ MUS for dd and ds, switch for one of them, supplement another program with MUS, switch completely for both....then as of now I'm looking at the 3 programs above, so I'm not sure which one would be best (hence looking for info on them to maybe help me decide:)

 

ETA: As of now, DS seems to catch on to math really fast and easy....does that mean he may do better with a spiral approach? I thought I read that 'mathy' kids could be bored wtih a mastery approach program, as they don't need to spend so much time on one topic? (we're currently using MUS, which is mastery). I also heard others say though, that you can just speed it up and not spend say 5 days on the same lesson...do one sheet, then move on. DD is struggling a little bit to remember all the 'tricks' with MUS and is starting to forget things from past lessons. I would have thought a mastery program would be best as she'd need to spend more time on topic than a spiral approach? Or am I completely wrong here in my thinking? This is all so new to me....

 

Thanks!

[ondreeuh]

A great way to look up past discussions is to do a google search using the search term site:welltrainedmind.com. Paste each of these into a google search ...

 

site:welltrainedmind.com CLE reviews

 

site:welltrainedmind.com Singapore reviews

 

site:welltrainedmind.com "math mammoth" reviews

[avazquez24]

Thank you! I'll do that too :)

[avazquez24]

This is a spin off on my other math threads I posted yesterday and today....so I'm now looking at MM, CLE, and Singapore and would love to hear input from others who use or have used them (you can read my other thread about how I'm using MUS and some issues I'm having w/ dd and ds).

First off, I know really nothing about these programs as I'm still pretty new to homeschooling (dd is 1st and ds kinder). I asked for everyone's favorite math programs (and least favorites), and after looking online at the sites of many curriculums, these were the 3 I was most interested in. So, ANY help/info regarding them would be helpful:)

 

 

1) Math Mammoth: Would this be solid as my only math curriculum, or would it work best if used with another program? I see they have the blue series by top and the light blue series which is a complete curriculum. I'm wondering which most people use? If I wanted to use it as my only math curriculum, is the the light blue series the way to go then? As far as I'm seeing, there are teacher manuals for it? Are there pages within the book then that are for the 'teacher' so I would know exactly how or what to teach them? or are the worksheets supposed to basically do that?

About how many lessons are there for the 1st or 2nd grade?

Any other info or input for a 'newbie' to MM would be great too!

 

2) Singapore: I spent some time on their site but I must admit I'm a little confused by everything lol. First off, I see they have US editions and Standards edition, what is the difference? Which do most people use and why? If it matters, I'm in California. Also, so, would I purchase the student workbook, teachers guide, AND Home inst guide? I've heard some say they had a hard time because they were confused on the way the material was taught.....method that's used that makes it way different from other programs? I just am wondering if I'm going to be completley confused teaching them (I was always fine with math and loved it though).

Again, any other info or input for a 'newbie' to Singapore would be great too!

 

3) CLE: This one I'm not completely sure about (other two are probably higher on my list), BUT I've seen many people post how they use and love it. First off, I see their items are broken down as 'light units', which sort of confuses me. So grade one has light units 101-110....can someone explain these 'light units'? Are there a certain number of lessons within each light unit?

Again, any other info or input for a 'newbie' to CLE would be appreciated!

 

I'm just not sure if I should stick w/ MUS for dd and ds, switch for one of them, supplement another program with MUS, switch completely for both....then as of now I'm looking at the 3 programs above, so I'm not sure which one would be best (hence looking for info on them to maybe help me decide:)

 

ETA: As of now, DS seems to catch on to math really fast and easy....does that mean he may do better with a spiral approach? I thought I read that 'mathy' kids could be bored wtih a mastery approach program, as they don't need to spend so much time on one topic? (we're currently using MUS, which is mastery). I also heard others say though, that you can just speed it up and not spend say 5 days on the same lesson...do one sheet, then move on. DD is struggling some to remember all the 'tricks' with MUS and is starting to forget things from past lessons. I would have thought a mastery program would be best as she'd need to spend more time on topic than a spiral approach? Or am I completely wrong here in my thinking? This is all so new to me....

 

Thanks!

 

[avazquez24]

Thanks for suggesting this! I'm only on the CLE reviews, but already its' been so helpful!

A great way to look up past discussions is to do a google search using the search term site:welltrainedmind.com. Paste each of these into a google search ...

 

site:welltrainedmind.com CLE reviews

 

site:welltrainedmind.com Singapore reviews

 

site:welltrainedmind.com "math mammoth" reviews

 

[Plateau Mama]

First let me address the spiral approach. If your child catches onto math concepts quickly they will die of boredom in a spiral approach. Having to review material they already know will make them want to poke their eyes out.

 

I'm a fan if MM. I switched to that from a spiral (Saxon) about 3 years ago and my son has don really well with it. He consistently tests Post High School on his yearly testing. It is more than enough for a full curriculum. There is no seperate teachers manual, it is all in the worksheets. My son has totally done this on hs own since 3rd grade, very rarely does he need help from me. Maria is also very quick to answer questions. Light Blue is intended as a year curriculum. She will be having a sale soon.

 

Like I said we have been using it for 3 years. I got it 60% off at homeschool buyers co-op. for less than $100 I got all the different versions and grades. My son is finishing up 5th grade and I just started 1st with my 5yo. So far he is enjoying it too.

[Dana]

I prefer standards edition for Singapore, but it sounds like they may be changing it with the new common core...

If you get the HiG you do not need the teachers guide.

[HappyGrace]

I have used all of them between my two children, and here are my quick thoughts:

 

1. I like the spiral of CLE, but it is not conceptual (I have used 1-6 w/ older dc, 2-4 w/ younger) at all.

 

2. Singapore is great and challenging but I couldn't stand all the switching among books (IMO the HIG is a must for the program) and there were many conceptual leaps

 

3. My favorite is MM. There is no TM-just answer key, but I like that because it teaches it to the student. (I do teach the concept to my student though-but it's right from the pages so it's easy). It is masterfully done and more incremental than Singapore-no leaps. I only wish it had some optional spiral to keep older concepts fresh.

 

If I were to use one, with nothing else added, it would definitely be Light Blue MM. Also, her YouTube videos are amazing! I never care about price for math curric-I get what I need no matter the price because it's so important-but the MM price on the group buy (as listed above) for the whole Lt. Blue series can't be beat!

 

Keep searching old threads, as someone mentioned above-that's the best way to learn. I've been on these boards for 11 yrs now and it has been the best help of anything for my homeschooling, choosing curricula, etc.

[Crimson Wife]

I haven't used CLE but it seems a solid enough program. One thing to bear in mind is that the S&S for CLE has the child doing Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Where I live, the standard college prep track is Algebra 1 in 8th and the honors track has it in 7th. In my district 70% of students take Algebra 1 before 9th and 20% take Geometry before 9th. I have to keep in mind the "signaling" effect of when my child does Algebra 1. Taking it in 9th as the CLE S&S has it would signal that he/she is in the bottom 30% of students. Definitely NOT what I want colleges to think!

 

With Singapore, the S&S of the secondary books has the student starting the easier topics of Algebra 1 in 7th and doing the rest plus some of the easier topics of Algebra 2 in 8th. So a student doing DM would not be "behind" the standard college prep track. If you choose to switch from Singapore after 6B, many students can go directly into an Algebra 1 textbook that has some pre-algebra built in like Jacobs.

 

With MM, the student would do pre-algebra in 7th and then Algebra 1 in 8th. Maria Miller should presumably have MM 7 out long before you would need it. Again a bright student may be able to go directly into Algebra 1 after 6B.

[ondreeuh]

In my district 70% of students take Algebra 1 before 9th and 20% take Geometry before 9th. I have to keep in mind the "signaling" effect of when my child does Algebra 1. Taking it in 9th as the CLE S&S has it would signal that he/she is in the bottom 30% of students. Definitely NOT what I want colleges to think!

 

 

I have a question about this... why do you believe a college is comparing your child's track to students from the same district instead of nationwide? Is there a way for a college to know what the standard track is for a particular district? If it's a local state school then maybe the admissions officer would know that taking Algebra in 9th is atypical for a given school, but what about other schools, especially farther away? What's to stop them from thinking that Algebra in 9th is the normal track?

 

In our district/state, I am near certain that Algebra in 9th is the norm. By your logic, it would not reflect poorly on us to wait until 9th for Algebra, since that's what most kids do. But if my kid is competing with kids from your district, wouldn't that make your kid look extra-advanced?

[alisoncooks]

I have tried each of these this year with my oldest, trying to get a feel for what will work for us...

 

1) Math Mammoth: Would this be solid as my only math curriculum, or would it work best if used with another program? I believe many people do use this as a complete/only math curriculum -- the light blue series is designed to be used so. I see they have the blue series by top and the light blue series which is a complete curriculum. I'm wondering which most people use? If I wanted to use it as my only math curriculum, is the the light blue series the way to go then? Yes. As far as I'm seeing, there are teacher manuals for it? Are there pages within the book then that are for the 'teacher' so I would know exactly how or what to teach them? or are the worksheets supposed to basically do that? It is meant to be taught from the worktext. There is no separate manual, but there are 1-2 pages at the beginning of each chapter that give some links to games online, teaching tips, special notes.

 

About how many lessons are there for the 1st or 2nd grade? IDK, there aren't really lessons.... more like topics divided into chapters and you just work your way through each chapter, 2 or so pages a day. Her website shows the table of contents and extensive samples. The FAQ section (I believe) also discusses pacing of the program.

Any other info or input for a 'newbie' to MM would be great too! For my DD, there was just too much with Math Mammoth. Too much on a page, too much practice -- and that was with us skipping. I also missed having a teacher-directed teaching time, games, etc.... it wasn't enough for me to just teach from the text. I didn't like that.

 

2) Singapore: I spent some time on their site but I must admit I'm a little confused by everything lol. First off, I see they have US editions and Standards edition, what is the difference? Which do most people use and why? If it matters, I'm in California. Many use the Standards ed. -- I've heard it described as more rigorous. IDK if that's the case, but that's what we used. This has been what we used most this year (all of 1A, most of 1B) but I'm not using it next year. Also, so, would I purchase the student workbook, teachers guide, AND Home inst guide? You need TEXTBOOK, WORKBOOK, and HIG. You do not need the teacher's guide. I've heard some say they had a hard time because they were confused on the way the material was taught.....method that's used that makes it way different from other programs? I just am wondering if I'm going to be completley confused teaching them (I was always fine with math and loved it though).

Again, any other info or input for a 'newbie' to Singapore would be great too! It is different than what I learned. Lots of emphasis on relationships and number bonds in the early level. Lots of mental calculations, number manipulation. I've found the word problems to be pretty challenging, compared to other programs. FWIW, Math Mammoth teaches from a similar perspective -- what people here refer to as "conceptual" focused, rather than algorithm based.

 

3) CLE: This one I'm not completely sure about (other two are probably higher on my list), BUT I've seen many people post how they use and love it. First off, I see their items are broken down as 'light units', which sort of confuses me. So grade one has light units 101-110....can someone explain these 'light units'? Are there a certain number of lessons within each light unit? CLE has pretty good samples on their website. We did parts of CLE Math 1. There are 10 "light units", each has maybe 15-17 lessons? Plus a quiz and unit test. It's very spiral and holds your hand well. The teacher's guide is excellent, step-by-step. Why we didn't stick with it? It didn't look "fun" (which DD whined about) and each day's practice was several pages long (granted, there weren't many items per page, but the fact that there were 3-4 pages to go through turned DD off.)

Again, any other info or input for a 'newbie' to CLE would be appreciated!

 

Thanks!

 

I'm a relative "newbie" but we've tried a lot of stuff this year. :p

I don't have any long-term evidence of one program being superior to others.... :) HTH!

[Crimson Wife]

 

I have a question about this... why do you believe a college is comparing your child's track to students from the same district instead of nationwide? Is there a way for a college to know what the standard track is for a particular district? If it's a local state school then maybe the admissions officer would know that taking Algebra in 9th is atypical for a given school, but what about other schools, especially farther away? What's to stop them from thinking that Algebra in 9th is the normal track?

 

The entire state has Algebra 1 in 8th as the standard. Maybe schools outside the state aren't aware of that fact but definitely all the California schools know. They will be comparing my kids with other students living in suburban California districts, and I don't want my kids to be seen as "behind".

[mrs.m]

My DD tested in pre-algebra for 7th grade and we were using CLE. I don't think that's an issue for a student that is moving through CLE 6 successfully.

[HappyGrace]

my oldest tested into pre-alg while in CLE 605, and this is NOT a mathy child at all. Also got a perfect score on the math part of CAT test in 5th grade-which this dc took the 5th grade test in April and we hadn't even finished the 5th grade CLE yet. I do think CLE is ahead.

 

That being said, this student can only do math in a very formulaic way due to CLE, which we're now trying to remediate. For us for many yrs though it was the only math that could be tolerated w/out tears, so we had to do it. Once logic stage came, dc was more able to start to understand concepts. (This is a child who is basically gifted in other areas.)

 

Getting to algebra earlier than CLE does it was one big reason we switched from CLE-in my area also they expect average kids to be doing Alg I in 8th, and 7th is considered even better.

[momma_pajama]

We started out with MUS, tried MM and ended up moving to CLE Math. With MUS my son was very bored with the mastery approach, and like the original poster mentioned mine forgot the "tricks" after a couple of weeks.

 

We moved over to CLE and he started telling me math is his favorite subject. A LightUnit is just another word for a workbook. There are ten for the year. Each LU is divided into daily lessons (between 10 and 15) , 2 quizzes, and a test. The teachers guide is very detailed and shows you how to teach each concept. I personally think CLE math is a bit ahead in the younger grades... not sure in the later. In math 1 and 2 there are a lot of review questions, so we are able to cross out a few each day for him to skip and he feels like it is something special. He also really feels accomplished when he finishes a LightUnit and gets to start a brand new one. For 1st grade math we wrote a special reward at the top of each unit to celebrate completing it... you know, little stuff like going to get frozen yogurt. He was so movitated to do his work!

 

Not sure what my long term plan is with math, but plan on sticking with CLE for as long as it works!

[Mom0012]

My DD tested in pre-algebra for 7th grade and we were using CLE. I don't think that's an issue for a student that is moving through CLE 6 successfully.

 

I agree. There may be good reasons to pick a program other than CLE, but concern about not doing algebra until 9th isn't one of them. There are many ways around that. My dd is working a year ahead in CLE and will start Saxon 8/7 next year in 6th because it's a good point to make the switch to a program that will take her all the way through high school.

 

I think it would be pretty easy for a strong student to go from CLE 7 into algebra. My son is going all the way through CLE 8, but he he's working a little ahead. He will likely start algebra partway through his 8th grade year and finish before 9th grade. If he doesn't, it won't be because of CLE, but because he just isn't there yet developmentally.