Very good article about the characteristics of kids with Nonverbal Learning Disorder

[unsinkable]

http://www.ldonline.org/article/6119/

 

I am learning about Nonverbal Learning Disorders. I am not an expert AT ALL but I was surprised at how many characteristics hit home for our situation. I have learned some characteristics overlap with Aspergers and ASD but it is a different diagnosis entirely.

 

Here are some traits from the article:

 

The student...

 

Has difficulty coping with changes in routine and transitions

 

Has difficulty generalizing previously learned information

 

Is easily overwhelmed

 

May experience heightened sensory experiences

 

Imparts the "illusion of competency"

 

Anyway, I just wanted to share in case anyone is struggling with a quirky kid and a bunch of characteristics that don't make sense.

[Dandelion]

Good article. Thanks for sharing!

 

All 10 of the neurobehavioral characteristics described in the article are applicable to my DS9 (dx'd with Asperger's). There's an incredible amount of overlap between these two diagnoses.

 

I've done some googling on the differences between NVLD and Asperger's but have yet to find an explanation that crystallizes that difference for me. One of the supposed distinctions I've read about is that those with NVLD have typical emotions but are inept at expressing them and recognizing them in others, to the extent that they are expressed nonverbally - whereas those with Asperger's are thought to not have the same range of emotions as a typical person, and have an "emotionally flat" affect. My experiences with my son as well as many other adults/kids on the spectrum (that I've met through the Asperger's support groups I moderate) don't seem to bear this out. There's a wide range of emotional expression, and many Aspies I've met fit the description of NVLD emotional expression better.

 

Some say that what distinguishes NVLD from Asperger's is often more a question of who is providing the diagnosis (and how it's obtained), rather than clearly defined distinctions between the two. NVLD is diagnosed based on a battery of neuropsychological tests while Asperger's is diagnosed based on subjective interpretation of observed behaviors.

 

It's definitely an interesting topic.

[unsinkable]

Julie,

 

I noticed in another thread that you said you did a lot of research into Aspergers and ASDs and I wondered if you had seen stuff/overlap with NLD.

 

I saw a nice chart...somewhere...that showed the similarities and differences.

 

Darned if I remember where...

[Dandelion]

I like charts. :) Would love to take a look at it if you remember where you saw it.

[Laurie4b]

One area that seems to be different is that kids with NVLD have a great deal of difficulty with higher math, whereas Aspies often excel there.

NVLD kids also tend to have a great deal of difficulty with writing. Don't know how that compares with Aspies.

[Dandelion]

One area that seems to be different is that kids with NVLD have a great deal of difficulty with higher math, whereas Aspies often excel there.

NVLD kids also tend to have a great deal of difficulty with writing. Don't know how that compares with Aspies.

 

 

Many Aspies have difficulty with writing as well (fine motor skill issues are very common in kids on the spectrum).

[unsinkable]

One area that seems to be different is that kids with NVLD have a great deal of difficulty with higher math, whereas Aspies often excel there.

NVLD kids also tend to have a great deal of difficulty with writing. Don't know how that compares with Aspies.

 

 

I've read that kids with NLD are very good at rote memory but poor at abstract thinking. So, as math moves from the concrete to the abstract, more and more difficulties arise.

 

That has proven true in my personal experience.

[unsinkable]

One area that seems to be different is that kids with NVLD have a great deal of difficulty with higher math, whereas Aspies often excel there.

NVLD kids also tend to have a great deal of difficulty with writing. Don't know how that compares with Aspies.

 

 

Do you mean the physical act of writing?

[unsinkable]

There is a chart in here. But the differences seem to be more of a continuum.

 

http://www.aboutourkids.org/files/articles/may_jun_4.pdf

[*Lulu*]

Thanks for posting this; I was interested to see who a many of the NLVD traits Punk has. (Originally they thought his diagnosis was going to be Asperger's, but moved away from it. I will be asking the psychologist administering his testing if he tanks NLVD is a possibility)

[unsinkable]

Thanks for posting this; I was interested to see who a many of the NLVD traits Punk has. (Originally they thought his diagnosis was going to be Asperger's, but moved away from it. I will be asking the psychologist administering his testing if he tanks NLVD is a possibility)

 

Here is an article with more info

 

http://www.nldontheweb.org/nldadvancedreading/nld.html

[bettyandbob]

NVLD is difficult to diagnose because there is so much overlap with other conditions.

 

 

Living with a family member who has this can put the whole family under constant stress. My family is affected by this and other serious and lifelong disabilities. NVLD affects all aspects of our life.

[unsinkable]

(((Betty)))

 

It's really tough when I think that this isn't going to be "solved" with extra time for testing.

 

 

[OrganicAnn]

Thanks for the article. My DD was diagnosed with this. We thought she was going to be diagnosed with ADHD and I was bracing for a recommendation for a PX. I think there are several issues that are either related or pop up in more than one diagnosis. I think that is why it is very important to get a good diagnosis (especially when you are having issues).

 

There were things on that list that fit my DD spot on, but a few of the list are less so.

 

PX - perscription for adderall or other ADHD med.

[unsinkable]

Thanks for the article. My DD was diagnosed with this. We thought she was going to be diagnosed with ADHD and I was bracing for a recommendation for a PX. I think there are several issues that are either related or pop up in more than one diagnosis. I think that is why it is very important to get a good diagnosis (especially when you are having issues).

 

There were things on that list that fit my DD spot on, but a few of the list are less so.

 

When I first started looking into this, and I saw all the characteristics (on a different list) I was stunned at how apt it was.

 

Is PX a prescription?

[unsinkable]

Ham hands!

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Sausage fingers!

[Mom-ninja.]

Thanks. This gives me much to think about.

[Celia]

Thanks for this. Very helpful!

[sbgrace]

I talked to a highly respected pysch. who specializes in autism this week. I asked her about NLD as I've wondered about my son. She told me that the expert who actually created the NLD label and characteristics has since said that he believes nearly 99% of kids who would fit the criteria for NLD would rightly be diagnosed on the autism spectrum. She indicated they are degrees of the same thing, just another variation. I haven't researched this at all to confirm. However, I do believe she knows her stuff.

 

Honestly, I think all of autism is a wide range of varying conditions with different causes and presentation lumped under a single label. And I think it does matter. These particular clusters of issues have their own unique struggles. The more that is known about particular struggles and how to best accommodate or address them the better.

[*Lulu*]

(((Betty)))

 

It's really tough when I think that this isn't going to be "solved" with extra time for testing.

 

 

Thanks for the other link as well.

 

I know what you mean about wanting an answer as a solution. Coming to grips with the fact that this isn't something to "fix" has been a struggle for DH and for me. I've come to view testing as just another way to learn how to help Punk reach for his dreams.

[unsinkable]

I talked to a highly respected pysch. who specializes in autism this week. I asked her about NLD as I've wondered about my son. She told me that the expert who actually created the NLD label and characteristics has since said that he believes nearly 99% of kids who would fit the criteria for NLD would rightly be diagnosed on the autism spectrum. She indicated they are degrees of the same thing, just another variation. I haven't researched this at all to confirm. However, I do believe she knows her stuff.

 

Honestly, I think all of autism is a wide range of varying conditions with different causes and presentation lumped under a single label. And I think it does matter. These particular clusters of issues have their own unique struggles. The more that is known about particular struggles and how to best accommodate or address them the better.

 

 

Thanks.

 

It's interesting how if you were to say, "XXX is autistic" or "XXX has Aspergers" people mostly have an idea of what you are talking about.

 

But if you say, "XXX has a Nonverbal Learning Disability" people mostly haven't a clue what you are talking about.

[OrganicAnn]

It is interesting because no one would ever say my DD is anything like autistic or aspergers. She definitely doesn't fit those descriptions, but she does fit the NLD. She is very verbal - high vocabulary. She has difficulty with abstract learning like math. For us, it focus is more learning style. I think as Autistic and Aspergers as having more impact of the whole personality (but I could be wrong).

[Laurie4b]

Do you mean the physical act of writing?

 

 

No, I was speaking about the process of 1) getting the abstract ideas in one's head for the paper (thesis and analysis), 2) getting it from one's head to paper. (I was thinking of high school math and jumped ahead without connecting the dots to high school writing.)

 

I understand that Aspie's often have problems with the fine motor coordination needed for handwriting, but didn't know if they also have problems with the abstract processes of writing.

 

I am thinking that in general, NVLD kiddos have more difficulties with abstract thinking in general, but that may just be in higher math.

[Laurie4b]

I talked to a highly respected pysch. who specializes in autism this week. I asked her about NLD as I've wondered about my son. She told me that the expert who actually created the NLD label and characteristics has since said that he believes nearly 99% of kids who would fit the criteria for NLD would rightly be diagnosed on the autism spectrum. She indicated they are degrees of the same thing, just another variation. I haven't researched this at all to confirm. However, I do believe she knows her stuff.

 

Honestly, I think all of autism is a wide range of varying conditions with different causes and presentation lumped under a single label. And I think it does matter. These particular clusters of issues have their own unique struggles. The more that is known about particular struggles and how to best accommodate or address them the better.

 

 

Your first paragraph is my impression as well in terms of what is going on in the field as right now the move is to collapse everything into one category--for instance, Asperger's will no longer be a separate dx from autism.

 

My sense is that the research around NVLD is fluid--they are not really sure what they are looking at yet.

 

I also agree that using "autism" as a catch-all category is not productive and totally agree with everything else you said in your second paragraph as well.

 

One of the criticisms of mental health diagnoses in general is that unlike medical diagnoses, there is often not a lot of correlation between the dx and the treatment, but it's the treatment that is really the issue, right? For instance, if I have a sore throat, a strep diagnosis is going to result in a different treatment than if it is due to allergy or if it is viral. Diagnosis makes a big difference and leads directly to the most effective treatment.

 

In mental health, a great number of diagnoses are given the same treatment (talk therapy) so some people have brought up the philosophical question of whether there should be separate diagnostic categories if there are not differentiated therapies. Because talk therapy often varies by practitioner (therapist x uses cognitive behavioral therapy, therapist y uses psychoanalytic therapy, etc.) rather than by diagnosis, it's often incumbent on the consumer to pretty much know the diagnosis, research the best kind of talk therapy, and identify a therapist who uses that type. Diagnosis can also vary by practitioner. I used to work in a residential mental health facility for children. In our intake process, there were certain situations in which we could pretty much guess who had referred the child by what the diagnosis was. Mental health issues are much harder to pin down given our current knowledge than most physical issues.

 

All that is to say, that I agree. Keeping clusters with their unique challenges in mind is important for developing the strategies that work best for that cluster of issues. I think that can be done while keeping in mind the things that the clusters have in common.