Problem with Math-u-see level scheduling....

[stephanie]

Dd11 started MUS gamma this year and has done great; it was the exact approach she needed for math. However, we're starting her 6th grade year beginning in Delta which means 7th grade would be Epsilon, 8th-Zeta. I need her to have those completed by end of 7th so she can start her pre-alg in 8th. I realize I can have her work during summer to get on track, but we do enjoy a break, and our summer is filled as it is. So how can I make this work for her? Ugh...I had hoped we would have also completed Delta this year, but there was just no way with the amount of time it has taken her to complete Gamma.

 

I need a plan....please. Lol

[MerryAtHope]

Is there a reason that you want to rush her through to get to pre-alg by 8th grade? Are you planning on homeschooling all the way through? Personally, I would just keep working through the programs, and start one when she finishes the last one, even if it's mid-year or near the end of a school year. But I think it's more important to build a solid foundation than to rush ahead to higher level math to achieve some "one size fits all" type of math plan that may not be best for her.

 

Even if she does pre-alg in 9th, she could still complete Alg 1 & 2 and Geometry in high school (potentially) which would be just fine. And I've known students who only got through Alg 1 or Alg 1 & Geometry and still went on to college. Colleges know students have strengths and weaknesses.

 

Anyway...unless there is some kind of pressing reason, I really don't think I'd try to cram it all in.

 

But I don't see a way to do it other than to have her double her math time each day or work through the summers etc... My kids wouldn't have liked that!

 

OR...if she doesn't need all of the practice sheets, maybe she could do the tests sooner and not do all of the practice--but I'd only do that with a student who was really getting it. If she needs the practice, it's not worth skipping the pages. Sometimes the A & B pages are easier/shorter, and maybe she could double those up. Some people do A/D, B/E, and C/F together on one day each and then do the test, so they get through a lesson in 4 days. You could see if something like that would work for her.

 

Hth some! Merry :-)

[stephanie]

Is there a reason that you want to rush her through to get to pre-alg by 8th grade? Are you planning on homeschooling all the way through? Personally, I would just keep working through the programs, and start one when she finishes the last one, even if it's mid-year or near the end of a school year. But I think it's more important to build a solid foundation than to rush ahead to higher level math to achieve some "one size fits all" type of math plan that may not be best for her.

 

Even if she does pre-alg in 9th, she could still complete Alg 1 & 2 and Geometry in high school (potentially) which would be just fine. And I've known students who only got through Alg 1 or Alg 1 & Geometry and still went on to college. Colleges know students have strengths and weaknesses.

 

Anyway...unless there is some kind of pressing reason, I really don't think I'd try to cram it all in.

 

But I don't see a way to do it other than to have her double her math time each day or work through the summers etc... My kids wouldn't have liked that!

 

OR...if she doesn't need all of the practice sheets, maybe she could do the tests sooner and not do all of the practice--but I'd only do that with a student who was really getting it. If she needs the practice, it's not worth skipping the pages. Sometimes the A & B pages are easier/shorter, and maybe she could double those up. Some people do A/D, B/E, and C/F together on one day each and then do the test, so they get through a lesson in 4 days. You could see if something like that would work for her.

 

Hth some! Merry :-)

 

I guess I'm just afraid she won't have time for higher level math if she wanted to. If you ask me today if I plan on schooling through high school then my answer is yes. However, I don't know what the future may hold so I would like for her to be at an appropriately level just in case.

I'm also trying to think ahead to her sciences in high school and needing to have certain maths complete before proceeding to a particular area of science. I may try to move ahead if she has mastered the skill. I might spend the summer working on division so she will feel at ease somewhat once she begins Delta.

Sigh.....why can't we all be born just knowing math!

[Mandy in TN]

There are several options.

 

You can suck it up and school through the summer.

 

You can see if you can get your hands on the old MUS intermediate and advanced.Go through them and then into Alg.

 

Change curriculum. Find something that has a more traditional scope and sequence. If you can find a program that has a lot of review, it may be that she can jump in a grade level or perhaps just one grade level below her own.

 

Keep going as is and realize that if she needs more advanced math she will be doing it in college vs high school.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[TN Mama]

We used MUS Gamma this year for my 4th grader. We have tried several different programs, but so far this one seems to be the best fit. Just over halfway through Gamma we introduced Delta. Since then she has worked one lesson in each book. Gamma will finish up next week. We'll continue Delta for the remainder of this school year, plus some through the summer. In the fall we plan to introduce Epsilon, and depending on how it goes we'll try continuing with two lessons per day.

[armom]

When I pulled my twins out of PS, I started them with Gamma in 5th grade. They really just needed a review. We did MUS at an accelerated pace. We did Gamma, Delta, and a portion of Epsilon in 5th grade. Then we finished Epsilon and Zeta this year in 6th grade.

[stephanie]

We used MUS Gamma this year for my 4th grader. We have tried several different programs, but so far this one seems to be the best fit. Just over halfway through Gamma we introduced Delta. Since then she has worked one lesson in each book. Gamma will finish up next week. We'll continue Delta for the remainder of this school year, plus some through the summer. In the fall we plan to introduce Epsilon, and depending on how it goes we'll try continuing with two lessons per day.

 

 

Geesh, I'm not sure why I didn't think of doing this? She was coined a 2E child after testing so I've tried to not overwhelm her, but I don't think MUS will do that having 2 separate lessons. Although now we are at the very end of Gamma and she's having to do the front page one day, the back the next because her multi-digit multiplication takes her SO long to complete. She knows her facts pretty well, but can be a bit obsessive over her penmenship, lining her numbers up, the size of the numbers, and them being correct. Lol. So I will order Delta today and start her on it asap. We still have another month or so left before we break so I think that'll work.

 

Thank you!

[TN Mama]

Stephanie, the multi-digit problems were the cause of some troubles here, too. I bought graph paper (after reading about the idea here, I'm sure) to keep things more easily lined up, and it's been MUCH better since. Also, on the days where there are several multi-digit problems I might do a few and she'll do the rest. When I say that I'm doing these, I mean that I'm doing the writing. She tells me exactly what & where. This does cause a little eye-rolling because if it's 1 x a number she looks at me like - "SURELY you don't need me to tell you this!" :lol:

[dereksurfs]

Stephanie, we also doubled up once we got to Zeta with ds11. I had him start work in MUS Pre-A. That allowed him to begin working on more advanced topics at least where MUS is concerned. He liked doing the *big kid* math and the different thinking it required. Since MUS S&S is so different from other programs I wanted to supplement and broaden the scope a bit anyway. We also also used Hands on Equations to develop more abstract reasoning skills earlier on. But if your dd is having trouble with multi-digit multiplication I wouldn't start HOE quite yet. I think starting with the next book as Laura did would be fine. Some things just take longer to master. That is also one of the reasons we moved our dds from MUS to CLE. MUS's mastery approach was just not as good of a fit for them. They learn better being introduced to a topic, then coming back it with some variety in between. If you stay with MUS you could also do this using two levels coming back to this area of multi-digits so that she doesn't get stuck there going over and over something with no mental breaks. Sometimes variety is what their brain needs, maybe even another perspective on the concepts. Do you use any other supplements/resources? We've used Dreambox with our dds as well once a week for fun and some variety.

 

Lastly, although we take Summers off for the most part we continue with math, though not every day. This helps them not *forget* all that they learned throughout the school year. You may consider some limited math through the Summer as well.

[jenn-]

Geesh, I'm not sure why I didn't think of doing this? She was coined a 2E child after testing so I've tried to not overwhelm her, but I don't think MUS will do that having 2 separate lessons. Although now we are at the very end of Gamma and she's having to do the front page one day, the back the next because her multi-digit multiplication takes her SO long to complete. She knows her facts pretty well, but can be a bit obsessive over her penmenship, lining her numbers up, the size of the numbers, and them being correct. Lol. So I will order Delta today and start her on it asap. We still have another month or so left before we break so I think that'll work.

 

Thank you!

 

 

When we got to the really large multiplication problems, even my math boy balked at the amount of work (really it was the amount of writing he had issues with). If he could make it through a new concept's first page with accuracy, I allowed him to do odds or evens on the rest of the new work and selected only one or two of the long problems each of the review pages. I wouldn't suggest this if she is still struggling with the concept though.

[stephanie]

Stephanie, the multi-digit problems were the cause of some troubles here, too. I bought graph paper (after reading about the idea here, I'm sure) to keep things more easily lined up, and it's been MUCH better since. Also, on the days where there are several multi-digit problems I might do a few and she'll do the rest. When I say that I'm doing these, I mean that I'm doing the writing. She tells me exactly what & where. This does cause a little eye-rolling because if it's 1 x a number she looks at me like - "SURELY you don't need me to tell you this!" :lol:

 

 

The graph paper didn't seem to work well for her. She writes larger than the squares and if she tried to write within them then she would spend forever just making sure they were perfect. She's pretty good about lining them up since she's a bit meticulous with her writing...but she's only like this with numbers. When we make corrections I will write them for her and she can do the mental work. She likes that, of course. Lol.

[stephanie]

Stephanie, we also doubled up once we got to Zeta with ds11. I had him start work in MUS Pre-A. That allowed him to begin working on more advanced topics at least where MUS is concerned. He liked doing the *big kid* math and the different thinking it required. Since MUS S&S is so different from other programs I wanted to supplement and broaden the scope a bit anyway. We also also used Hands on Equations to develop more abstract reasoning skills earlier on. But if your dd is having trouble with multi-digit multiplication I wouldn't start HOE quite yet. I think starting with the next book as Laura did would be fine. Some things just take longer to master. That is also one of the reasons we moved our dds from MUS to CLE. MUS's mastery approach was just not as good of a fit for them. They learn better being introduced to a topic, then coming back it with some variety in between. If you stay with MUS you could also do this using two levels coming back to this area of multi-digits so that she doesn't get stuck there going over and over something with no mental breaks. Sometimes variety is what their brain needs, maybe even another perspective on the concepts. Do you use any other supplements/resources? We've used Dreambox with our dds as well once a week for fun and some variety.

 

Lastly, although we take Summers off for the most part we continue with math, though not every day. This helps them not *forget* all that they learned throughout the school year. You may consider some limited math through the Summer as well.

 

 

She works on the Keys To series on "easy days" which is usually Friday. I'm going to check out dreambox though. Thanks!

[Lymeade Mom]

Have you thought of doubling up on lessons? So once or twice a week, she could do 2 pages in one day (schedule 2 times a day to work--like school kids have classwork and homework). If I did 2 pages in a day, it might be new material and a review page, so there is some variety. Pre-algebra is ideal in 8th, but you can catch up later. Algebra and Geometry don't overlap much, so you could do geometry and algebra 2 in the same year as 2 separate subjects.

 

From my experience tutoring math, I would say understanding the basics is more important than moving ahead quickly. Do take the time you need.

 

I think I would work on trying to get through more than one book a year, but not necessarily 2 books in one year. So, if you aim to do one lesson a week and do school for 36 weeks, then you could do Zeta, plus 6 weeks of Epsilon next year. Also, we can often skip the B's and C's in the first lessons of the book as they are usually easy (or any lesson where they get 90% or above), so you might get to lesson 8 or 10. Then, the next year, you could do last 20 lessons of Epsilon and 16-20 of Pre-Algebra. Finally, for freshman year you might finish Pre-Algebra and complete Algebra. You could even call it all Algebra on the transcript since most Algebra courses do a lot of review of pre-alg. concepts. I usually start my homeschool early and math is often one of the the things I start first and have my kids continue to work on until they reach the goal for the year, even if that means doing a week of double lessons after all our history or whatever is finished.

[fluffybunny]

If your 11 year old child is average at math, then it should only take about 4 months to get through each unit at this level. So you'll be on target.

 

We're in a similar situation. When we started HSing our ds 18 months ago, we were advised to start at Alpha and move through the levels at a faster rate. In 18 months we've covered Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Delta and we are now on Epsilon. Ds is currently 7th grade and it will probably take him 4 months on Epsilon and 4 months on Zeta. So I'm looking at him starting preAlgebra in the beginning of 2014. :)

[Mom2OandE]

DD struggled a bit with the longer multiplication. We used Khan academy and demonstrated three ways to do it. Regrouping, carrying and lattice. MUS teaches regrouping and that turned out to be the method she didn't work for her. She uses carrying and lattice and did much better.

 

I had hoped to do gamma and delta this year and it just didn't happen. I realized that its more important for her to learn it than complete every level by 12th grade. I went to college and only had algebra and geometry. So now we slow down when we need to and move faster when we can.

[SebastianCat]

We use notebook paper turned sideways for the longer multiplication problems, and that has helped my dd in Gamma.

 

In addition to the ideas mentioned, you could work faster through the earlier lessons in each book, and not complete every worksheet. This year with Gamma, my Dd did one lesson per week and didn't complete every worksheet of every lesson. This pace worked very well for her until we hit the multiple-digit multiplication (around lesson 24?), where we had to slow down.

 

We are planning to start Delta this summer, and do one lesson per week as long as DD can handle that pace. Then when we hit harder topics, we'll slow down and take our time getting through them - and if it takes us longer than a week per lesson, we'll have plenty of time.

[stephanie]

If your 11 year old child is average at math, then it should only take about 4 months to get through each unit at this level. So you'll be on target.

 

We're in a similar situation. When we started HSing our ds 18 months ago, we were advised to start at Alpha and move through the levels at a faster rate. In 18 months we've covered Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Delta and we are now on Epsilon. Ds is currently 7th grade and it will probably take him 4 months on Epsilon and 4 months on Zeta. So I'm looking at him starting preAlgebra in the beginning of 2014. :)

 

 

She is average in math, and she did 2 lessons a day for a while, but then she slowed down and has been only completing one page per day...not even a lesson per day. She will spend 45 min -1 hr of focused work and I feel that's plenty. Yesterday she told me she really didnt like math as much as she used to, and it made me sad. I think now she's finding it's just not so easy anymore. I just need to be able to cover 2 levels within the year. I won't move any faster than she needs, but I think i'll move a little faster in the beginning this time.

 

Good for y'all for getting caught up; I know that helps your heart have some peace!

 

[dereksurfs]

She is average in math, and she did 2 lessons a day for a while, but then she slowed down and has been only completing one page per day...not even a lesson per day. She will spend 45 min -1 hr of focused work and I feel that's plenty. Yesterday she told me she really didnt like math as much as she used to, and it made me sad. I think now she's finding it's just not so easy anymore. I just need to be able to cover 2 levels within the year. I won't move any faster than she needs, but I think i'll move a little faster in the beginning this time.

 

Good for y'all for getting caught up; I know that helps your heart have some peace!

 

Stephanie, I'm sorry to hear this about your dd. It made me sad also whenever my dds would tell me this. I just asked my wife this morning after reading your post how dd9 is doing in math and dd9 overheard. She has never been a math lover! Anyway she brought her book down and showed me all that she is learning in CLE. Then she asked me to quiz her. In the past she typically would never want to talk about math at all, especially on the weekend! Part of that I took with a grain of salt initially as just something which was hard for her like hiking, running, etc... Although with these physical activities she will do them with me when coaxed and usually have fun once out there. But I never saw the liking part with math at all during our years with MUS which they all started from the beginning (Primer). So I just asked her what she likes more about CLE than MUS. She described how she enjoys the variety more including the stories which lead into more interesting word problems. For example there is a story about Italy she explained. Then they do problems related to that country. Since she's always liked reading and history more than math this helps build a bridge for her into the world of math.

 

I mention all this because 'sometimes' curriculum change can lead to a new appreciation for math even if one was non existent prior. I'm not saying CLE is it per se, but just that MUS can sometimes be the wrong fit for a child at least during this stage of their life. Maybe you could have a look *with* her look at a few programs such as CLE, R&S and MM just to get some initial feedback. You could say you are considering this as a trial or supplemental initially if you prefer. It might really help her in the long run gain an appreciation for math or at least not dislike it so much.

 

The greatest concern with changing programs for us as with most parents I think is that we knew we would probably have to go backward first before going ahead. But because they both were generally unhappy and seemed to like CLE quite a bit more after sampling it we decided it would be worth a trial run. That turned out to be the best decision we have made for them regarding their math education. After ~ 1.5 years they have caught back up to their grade level and now both gone beyond it. This is all with very little if any coaxing or complaining. We like to celebrate with a little 'math party' when they finish their grade level just to encourage them which we had recently. I consider this all a part of the tailoring process as we as parents learn their unique learning style. Its all still math, just a different way of covering it. IMO, it is worth whatever it takes to help a child learn and eventually appreciate math more even if that means going sideways or even backwards for a while to do so.

[stephanie]

 

 

Stephanie, I'm sorry to hear this about your dd. It made me sad also whenever my dds would tell me this. I just asked my wife this morning after reading your post how dd9 is doing in math and dd9 overheard. She has never been a math lover! Anyway she brought her book down and showed me all that she is learning in CLE. Then she asked me to quiz her. In the past she typically would never want to talk about math at all, especially on the weekend! Part of that I took with a grain of salt initially as just something which was hard for her like hiking, running, etc... Although with these physical activities she will do them with me when coaxed and usually have fun once out there. But I never saw the liking part with math at all during our years with MUS which they all started from the beginning (Primer). So I just asked her what she likes more about CLE than MUS. She described how she enjoys the variety more including the stories which lead into more interesting word problems. For example there is a story about Italy she explained. Then they do problems related to that country. Since she's always liked reading and history more than math this helps build a bridge for her into the world of math.

 

I mention all this because 'sometimes' curriculum change can lead to a new appreciation for math even if one was non existent prior. I'm not saying CLE is it per se, but just that MUS can sometimes be the wrong fit for a child at least during this stage of their life. Maybe you could have a look *with* her look at a few programs such as CLE, R&S and MM just to get some initial feedback. You could say you are considering this as a trial or supplemental initially if you prefer. It might really help her in the long run gain an appreciation for math or at least not dislike it so much.

 

The greatest concern with changing programs for us as with most parents I think is that we knew we would probably have to go backward first before going ahead. But because they both were generally unhappy and seemed to like CLE quite a bit more after sampling it we decided it would be worth a trial run. That turned out to be the best decision we have made for them regarding their math education. After ~ 1.5 years they have caught back up to their grade level and now both gone beyond it. This is all with very little if any coaxing or complaining. We like to celebrate with a little 'math party' when they finish their grade level just to encourage them which we had recently. I consider this all a part of the tailoring process as we as parents learn their unique learning style. Its all still math, just a different way of covering it. IMO, it is worth whatever it takes to help a child learn and eventually appreciate math more even if that means going sideways or even backwards for a while to do so.

Derek, thank you for sharing this with me. I am not certain if she doesn't like math as much because it requires more work, or if she isnt liking the program. I'm a bit hesitant to start a new program because I'm not looking forward to having to catch her up where MUS hasnt covered yet. I know that absolutely is no reason to not change; it's just a thought I've had. I'm going to look at some other programs. We did use Dreambox last week and she really enjoyed it so thank you for that suggestion.

 

Also, when I had her tested last year the diagnostician suggested she use a hands-on curriculum, mastery approach. She had previously used TT and did awesome...until she tested. She just didn't retain very well. One thing about MUS is that she has remembered all the material. She remembers all her measurements, conversions, etc. I really like that about MUS.

[swellmomma]

My teens are 13 & 14 and only in delta, other programs we tried just weren't working, MUS is. We are currently doing 1 lesson per school day which means you can finish a book in under 2 months. Ds struggles a bit more than dd so he is slower going, but for the first time it is sticking. We will keep doing 1 a day until it gets too challenging for them. Delta will be done in June (we did not do school in april at all, and most of may is eatten up with dance/work) otherwise we would have been done it by now. Epsilon they will start right away, allowing for time off in the summer for family camp, and work schedules I am anticipating finishing that level by end of sept provided we don't completely stall out on a concept for a long time. Then zeta before xmas, prealgebra after xmas to end of year. Which would have them starting alg 1 in grade 9/10. I was really worried about it all until I realized that they were capable at this point of a lesson per day, where with gamma we had been breaking it up and doing a lesson a week. You may find the same thing, that you can zoom through some lessons and only need to slow down on a few. I have the kids do pages A, B & D, if they score well they do the test and call it good, if they don't then they do the rest of the practice pages before the test.

[stephanie]

My teens are 13 & 14 and only in delta, other programs we tried just weren't working, MUS is. We are currently doing 1 lesson per school day which means you can finish a book in under 2 months. Ds struggles a bit more than dd so he is slower going, but for the first time it is sticking. We will keep doing 1 a day until it gets too challenging for them. Delta will be done in June (we did not do school in april at all, and most of may is eatten up with dance/work) otherwise we would have been done it by now. Epsilon they will start right away, allowing for time off in the summer for family camp, and work schedules I am anticipating finishing that level by end of sept provided we don't completely stall out on a concept for a long time. Then zeta before xmas, prealgebra after xmas to end of year. Which would have them starting alg 1 in grade 9/10. I was really worried about it all until I realized that they were capable at this point of a lesson per day, where with gamma we had been breaking it up and doing a lesson a week. You may find the same thing, that you can zoom through some lessons and only need to slow down on a few. I have the kids do pages A, B & D, if they score well they do the test and call it good, if they don't then they do the rest of the practice pages before the test.

You know, this is where I lost our time this year. I know dd could've done a lesson more quickly than she did. I just never rushed her and allowed her to do all of them. Now I will be able to move through delta much quicker having her move quickly past concepts she's obviously mastered.

[kohlby]

With the multi-digit mult problems, I didn't worry about how much was done, just that the child understood it. My oldest was terribly distracted. So I had to take a little break during that section - he was young for that book though - and I'd give him just a couple of big problems a day until he got more confident. With my middle child, who is a perfectionist with great focus, I would just have her do the odds or the evens. She learned better with less problems. It was too overwhelming for her to do lots and she didn't need all that extra practice. MUS is excellent for pacing to the child. I don't have a standard number of pages/lessons to do. I base it on the child. This makes acceleration easy if your child understands lessons quickly. You may find you don't need a full year for each level after this one - or your might - you can figure it out as you go, though I do like the idea of doing delta and gamma together to help speed it up a little. Another thing to consider is that you can likely do more than one high school level math at the same time. With most curriculums, it is was very possible to take Alg II and Geometry at the same time. With some, it may even be possible to start Geometry after a semester of Alg I.

 

*My kids zip through the first half of Delta. My middle child is on lesson 16 now, so I'm not sure what her pace will be like for the rest. My oldest slowed down slightly with the long-division but still moved quickly. My daughter was able to do one lesson a day for Delta lessons 1-15. (Can't remember exactly for my son, but it was 1-2 days). I did have her do two days on lesson 16. I think she could have handled one, but I wanted to reinforce since it's the start of long division.

[kohlby]

For the big mult, instead of graph paper, we used regular lined paper turned sideways. This allowed everything to be lined up but allowed the child to write larger than most graph paper allows. The lining up horizonally really wasn't an issue, since they were used to writing on a horizontal line. It was the drifting from one vertical column to another where the lines were needed.

[stephanie]

Thanks for all the great ideas y'all. I ordered Delta today and hope to start asap. I hope she catches on quickly though! :huh: