xpost: Any serious Tolkien fans?? A question about The History of LOTR and book order, etc

[NCMom]

Not sure if you have watched them, but on Netflix there are 2 National Geographic videos about LOTR. We watched National Geographic: Lord of the Rings. It talks about the movie but also Tolkien's childhood and making the elvish language. The part about the Finnish village is very interesting. Maybe these 2 videos will give you some jumping off points.

 

 

I'd pre-watch these first and and/or maybe read the Amazon reviews, which detail a lot of my complaints, lol. I did not find them useful but of course, ymmv.

 

Georgia

[Nancy in NH]

Coming extremely late to this party (LOL), but here are links to a wide assortment of topics that may be of interest to your DD as she pursues Tolkien's background to try and uncover what caused him to create the World of Middle Earth. These are pulled from the research I did for putting together the year-long study of Lord of the Rings with my co-op class this past year. Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

 

General Resources

- The Tolkien Society = esp. check out their extensive list of links under "resources"

- Resource Links = Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings

- Tolkien Trail = photos of places Tolkien knew as a child

- Houghton-Mifflin lesson plans for secondary school educators

 

Maps/Encyclopedias

- Encyclopedia of Arda = brief entries on people, places, and the mythology of all the ages of Middle Earth, with maps showing locations of places

- 3 Ri.ngs = iInteractive map with zoom feature; when you click on a place, a text box comes up with definitions and meanings of that name.

- Lord of the Rings Project = interactive map with timeline, people, places and event options; for example, click on a character name and a colored line appears on the map showing all the places that character travels to during the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Click on the timeline feature and see where events in the trilogy take place on the map of Middle Earth.

- Timeline of the One Ring = circular timeline with key events and the 7 ringbearers

- Walk to Rivendell Challenge = fun personal challenge to track your own walking against the walking done in Lord of the Rings

 

Other Works by Tolkien

- "Farmer Giles of Ham" = read the short story online

- "Smith of Wooton Major" = read the short story online

- "Leaf by Niggle"= read the short story online

- All Poetry: poems by Tolkien = read poems by Tolkien online

 

Tolkien's Own Thoughts on Literature

- "On Fairy Stories"= read this essay by Tolkien online

- "Of Monsters and Critics" = read this essay by Tolkien online

- "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" = read this essay by Tolkien online

-

= hear Tolkien sing

- Galadriel's lament= hear Tolkien recite

- chapter 2, Fellowship of the Rings, "One Ring to Rule Them All" = hear Tolkien read

-

= hear Tolkien read

-

= hear Tolkien read

 

Language/Writing

- Arwen Undomiel = website on the Elven language

- Book of Kells = Wikipedia article on this illuminated text, which Tolkien would have known/been influenced by

- Tengwar Calligraphy = how to use calligraphy the way J.R.R. Tolkien did

- Your "secret Hobbit name" = just for fun random name generator based on letters in your name

 

Others on Tolkien

- 8-part audio lecture series on The Hobbit = Corey Olsen of Mythgard Institute

- comparison of "Farmer Giles of Ham" and The Hobbit= short article by Corey Olsen of Mythgard Institute: short article

- Fall of Arthur = short review of Tolkien's own Arthurian work, to be released in May 2013

-

= sung version of this poem

- search for YouTube of The Tolkien Ensemble performing various Tolkien poems/songs

 

Biblical Elements in Tolkien's writing

- "Presence of Christ in The Lord of the Rings" = Peter Kreeft, essay excerpt from his book, The Philosophy of Tolkien: The Worldview Behind the Lord of the Rings

- Christian themes in the Ent/Entwife song = short article by Angelina Tsaoussis

 

Beowulf

-

, read by Heaney

-

, read by Heaney

- Beowulf, Opening Lines = performed by Benjamin Bagby in the original, accompanied by a reproduction harp

- Beowulf, Grendel's Ambush = performed by Benjamin Bagby

- Beowulf, Battle = performed by Benjamin Bagby

-

-

-

-

-

-

- Beowulf = free online prose retelling

- connection between Rohan and Beowulf = short article by Michael Kightley

 

King Arthur

- Chivalry = short article

- connections between King Arthur and Lord of the Rings = short article by Richard Finn

 

Lori,

Thanks so much for these wonderful resources! You are amazing!

 

I'm left wondering if I really need LLFLOTR with all these wonderful resources available. I know you are a big fan of the curriculum, and I was just about to purchase it, but it's a bit expensive. My son loves to read and discuss, so I know much of the busy work will be skipped. It seems it has value with respect to the unit studies, though. My ds is excited to make this a year-long adventure, and I'm not always confident about pulling things together on my own. I keep telling myself we would probably do fine without it, but I'd love your opinion.

 

Also, is it essential to have both student and teacher books?

 

Nancy in NH

[Lori D.]

On 6/28/2013 at 12:44 PM, Nancy in NH said:

I'm left wondering if I really need LLFLOTR with all these wonderful resources available.... [and] it's a bit expensive...
... I know much of the busy work will be skipped...
... I keep telling myself we would probably do fine without it, but I'd love your opinion.

JMO, but I do think LLftLotR is very worthwhile, and is a wonderful, gentle, enthusiastic intro into literary analysis for younger students (middle school) and for those high school students who enjoy fantasy / Tolkien but who are brand new to literary analysis. The notes for each chapter and the 12 additional units of material are what make the program so worthwhile, IMO. My links do not cover the same ground as those chapter notes and units.

And yes, it is easy to skip the "busy work" (fill in the blanks comprehension page for each chapter, and the vocabulary worksheets/quizzes) and still have plenty of "meat" to the program. That's what we did.

And yes, I do think it was worthwhile for us (I really can't answer that for anyone else! ;)). The chapter notes weave consistency through the program so that you keep coming back to the main themes and see what new things have happened relating to those themes as the story progresses. And the notes continually bring in interesting bits of background and show specific influences on Lord of the Rings. And the 12 additional units were quite interesting in helping expand knowledge and enjoyment from the trilogy into the greater world of aspects of Literature.

On 6/28/2013 at 12:44 PM, Nancy in NH said:

Also, is it essential to have both student and teacher books?

If you can find an original edition (pre-2009 ?? I think), no you don't need both -- you can just buy a used teacher edition, which is all the student pages with the answers added in, plus the addition of writing assignment ideas and some teacher resources.

If you can only find second edition, then yes, you will need both teacher and student books. While the content of the first and second editions is the same, the second edition has reorganized the material so that the teacher book now contains the answers and the chapter notes, while the student book contains the fill-in-the blank pages, the discussion questions, and the 12 units of material. So, alas, if you want all the meat of the program, you do need both.

However, you might be able to find it used, or even just the teacher edition used, and then purchase a new student book (but not write in it) and then when finished you could re-sell and re-coop a good portion of your investment.

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Lori D.

[Nancy in NH]

 

 

JMO, but I do think LLftLotR is very worthwhile, and is a wonderful, gentle, enthusiastic intro into literary analysis for younger students (middle school) and for those high school students who enjoy fantasy / Tolkien but who are brand new to literary analysis. The notes for each chapter and the 12 additional units of material are what make the program so worthwhile, IMO. My links do not cover the same ground as those chapter notes and units.

 

And yes, it is easy to skip the "busy work" (fill in the blanks comprehension page for each chapter, and the vocabulary worksheets/quizzes) and still have plenty of "meat" to the program. That's what we did.

 

And yes, I do think it was worthwhile for us (I really can't answer that for anyone else! ;)). The chapter notes weave consistency through the program so that you keep coming back to the main themes and see what new things have happened relating to those themes as the story progresses. And the notes continually bring in interesting bits of background and show specific influences on Lord of the Rings. And the 12 additional units were quite interesting in helping expand knowledge and enjoyment from the trilogy into the greater world of aspects of Literature.

 

 

 

 

 

If you can find an original edition (pre-2009 ?? I think), no you don't need both -- you can just buy a used teacher edition, which is all the student pages with the answers added in, plus the addition of writing assignment ideas and some teacher resources.

 

If you can only find second edition, then yes, you will need both teacher and student books. While the content of the first and second editions is the same, the second edition has reorganized the material so that the teacher book now contains the answers and the chapter notes, while the student book contains the fill-in-the blank pages, the discussion questions, and the 12 units of material. So, alas, if you want all the meat of the program, you do need both.

 

However, you might be able to find it used, or even just the teacher edition used, and then purchase a new student book (but not write in it) and then when finished you could re-sell and re-coop a good portion of your investment.

 

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thank you, Lori. I'm on the hunt for an original edition!

Nancy in NH

[EmilyK]

Not sure if you have watched them, but on Netflix there are 2 National Geographic videos about LOTR. We watched National Geographic: Lord of the Rings. It talks about the movie but also Tolkien's childhood and making the elvish language. The part about the Finnish village is very interesting. Maybe these 2 videos will give you some jumping off points.

 

 

I can only find one of these -- do you know the names? This is just for fun for my 11 year old -- I realize this isn't as serious as the other resources mentioned. Thanks!

[8filltheheart]

I wanted to update our study. LLfLOTR's is a complete bust for this dd. Picking it up 5 yrs later after doing it in middle school with my other 2.....it is way below her level. I am reading the unit notes for where certain things are in the appendices and the info on Tolkein and outside references, but that is about it.

 

The Mythgard Silmarillion lectures are too long and drawn out. Another disappointing bust.

 

So......we have been reading the Silmarillion together along with the map book while each of us is independently reading LOTR. The Mythgard LOTR lectures are not as bad as the Silmarillion. (If you wanted to spend a couple of hours listening to general chatter about the Silm, they aren't that bad, but really there is nothing in them that we haven't picked up on ourselves except for a few minutes per lecture. I personally can't handle 1 1/2 hrs of discussion for 3-4 mins of real insight.

 

We still haven't found our groove which is disappointing, but now that I have most of my sr's stuff out of the way, we will be able to make this into what we are wanting.

[Lori D.]

On 9/8/2013 at 5:57 AM, 8FillTheHeart said:

I wanted to update our study. LLfLOTR's is a complete bust for this dd. Picking it up 5 yrs later after doing it in middle school with my other 2.....it is way below her level. I am reading the unit notes for where certain things are in the appendices and the info on Tolkein and outside references, but that is about it.

The Mythgard Silmarillion lectures are too long and drawn out. Another disappointing bust.

So......we have been reading the Silmarillion together along with the map book while each of us is independently reading LOTR. The Mythgard LOTR lectures are not as bad as the Silmarillion. (If you wanted to spend a couple of hours listening to general chatter about the Silm, they aren't that bad, but really there is nothing in them that we haven't picked up on ourselves except for a few minutes per lecture. I personally can't handle 1 1/2 hrs of discussion for 3-4 mins of real insight.

We still haven't found our groove which is disappointing, but now that I have most of my sr's stuff out of the way, we will be able to make this into what we are wanting.

Now that the school year is over, would LOVE to hear what the 2 of you DID end up doing, how you made it something new/different for your DD with very different interests and strengths, and what you liked / what you'd recommend… A list perhaps, for future readers of this thread?? 😉

Edited January 26, 2019 by Lori D.

[SilverMoon]

I'm curious too. :)

 

DS and I are working on building a course covering Norse myths through King Arthur. Our research kept pointing us to Tolkien (and a bit of C.S. Lewis), so much that DS commented that Tolkien as his Vandiver for medieval would be awesome.

[8filltheheart]

I'll have to answer this on a day with lots of time.   This school yr was completely thrown for a loop when our dil had a difficult pregnancy which ended with a csec.   Our grandkids, ages 1 and 2, lived with us off and on for weeks.  (lots of weeks :) ) We ended up shifting gears for quite a bit of time and will be continuing it next yr.

[SilverMoon]

 

On 5/30/2013 at 9:19 AM, Lori D. said:

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by SilverMoon

[Connections]

8Fill-

 

Thought I would bump this and see if you have time for an update :)

 

 

[idnib]

Try looking at this:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/comments/151jct/recommended_reading_for_tolkien_fans/

 

and this:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/1zp9sh/good_books_about_tolkien/ 

 

and this:

 

http://lotrproject.com/map/

 

I'm no expert as I'm just getting started, but my goal is to be more than just the reader I currently am.

[8filltheheart]

I am so glad that I started this thread 3 yrs ago bc the responses are just incredibly wonderful. Thank you to every single person who contributed!!

 

I am working on jumping into this again, this time with my 9th grader. She is no where close to the same level as her sister, but just reading through the thread has really sparked some great ideas. I hope others will get as much of a benefit from the suggestions as I have.

 

One day when I don't have a graduating sr or a house full of grandkids, I will have to write about where these adventures take us. Not this yr, though, bc the dd who I originally asked this question for is a sr and sr yrs are just crazy.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I am so glad that I started this thread 3 yrs ago bc the responses are just incredibly wonderful. Thank you to every single person who contributed!!

 

I am working on jumping into this again, this time with my 9th grader. She is no where close to the same level as her sister, but just reading through the thread has really sparked some great ideas. I hope others will get as much of a benefit from the suggestions as I have.

 

One day when I don't have a graduating sr or a house full of grandkids, I will have to write about where these adventures take us. Not this yr, though, bc the dd who I originally asked this question for is a sr and sr yrs are just crazy.

 

I was thinking recently that I should try to keep a journal of what we do in a year, because it is amazing when I think about it all.  

 

I think it would be incredibly interesting to read some side by side journalling of different homeschool families.  (Side by side meaning what what going in January for each family.)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I can't remember if I mentioned this when the thread was new.

 

Tales Before Tolkein  I read the companion book Tales Before Lewis and really liked it.

[mo2]

I actually already had this thread open in another tab because I searched for it just yesterday.   :lol:  My 9th grader will be doing LLLotR this year, and I want to beef it up by reading some of the other works mentioned  in the curriculum (Beowulf, Sir Gawain, etc) and also some more Tolkein.  This thread is a goldmine. 

 

My biggest problem is not finding resources, but figuring out how to schedule them.  LLLotR schedules the 3 books to last the full school year.  When you are reading extra book (unscheduled in LLLotR), are you reading them simultaneously alongside LOTR or do you speed up your reading of LOTR to make room for the other books? 

[8filltheheart]

Speed up or simultaneously. It just depends.

[MamaChicken]

Have you found a  nice illustrated copy of the Silmarillion.  I'd love to get this for DS for his birthday in August also.  He already has and treasures the illustrated Hobbit and LOTR.

We're doing LLLotR this year too.

Christopher Tolkien compiled History of LOTR, so I am sure he would be happy with it. Kreeft and Pearce are both Catholic and ardent Tolkien fans, so both of their books are very respectful (and full of Tolkien love. )

DD is very familiar with the stories. It was actually watching The Hobbit that made her want to read the Silmarillion and the Unfinished Tales b/c she can spot which parts are not in The Hobbit.

We already own a copy of the Silmarillion, but I saw the illustrated copies when I was researching other titles. I might consider getting her an illustrated copy for her b-day (which is conveniently the end of Sept!)

She is already finishing up this school yr. She has finished geo. We only have a couple weeks left in lit. She has pretty much finished history, etc. She actually wants to start reading for this study this summer. I am just not sure where to start or with what.

Thanks for the suggestion about the sewing. Her older sister and I made a medieval ball gown back when we read the study and it was a lot of fun. That is a project that this dd definitely would enjoy as well.

 

[happypamama]

I actually already had this thread open in another tab because I searched for it just yesterday. :lol: My 9th grader will be doing LLLotR this year, and I want to beef it up by reading some of the other works mentioned in the curriculum (Beowulf, Sir Gawain, etc) and also some more Tolkein. This thread is a goldmine.

 

My biggest problem is not finding resources, but figuring out how to schedule them. LLLotR schedules the 3 books to last the full school year. When you are reading extra book (unscheduled in LLLotR), are you reading them simultaneously alongside LOTR or do you speed up your reading of LOTR to make room for the other books?

They way I'm planning to do it is that the LOTR books will be part of an evening readaloud session, between my big two kids and me, DH possibly. The supplemental stuff I might read aloud between LOTR books, but a lot of it, I am planning to have them read on their own, as part of their daily literature assignment. I'm using LLfLOTR with sixth and ninth graders as part of our larger medieval history year, so for instance, Beowulf fits nicely with both one of the LLfLOTR extras and with medieval history. Each of them will be reading an appropriate version for their age. I am not sure about the other Tolkien books and stories. . . They've already listened to The Hobbit when DH read it to them, so they may or may not listen when we read it with their younger siblings, but I might read some of the other stories aloud to the whole crew. (We did that with Tolkien's Father Christmas letters one year, and everyone loved it.). I might then read some of the harder stuff to the big kids or have or let them read it on their own. Kind of just going to see how the pacing of it all works out.

[Mosaicmind]

Is this the Beowulf translation by Tolkien that you want?

 

 

Edited: address in next post. Ugh!!

Edited July 21, 2016 by Mosaicmind

[Mosaicmind]

Is this the Beowulf translation by Tolkien that you want?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Beowulf-Translation-Commentary-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/0544570308/ref=pd_sim_14_74?ie=UTF8&dpID=51XBodiqMiL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR102%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=AMX5DBTBT4SYF1X7GZM8

[Mosaicmind]

I'm going to be doing LLLotR with Moe this year and I've been reading the teacher's manual this week. You guys have some great book ideas to add and it's all very exciting and confusing.

 

Would someone please put in 1 post the other books to read in order? I would like to start buying some now so I can stay on top of this as we go. Our family is huge Tolkien fans and to add in the history behind Middle Earth, the writing of LOTR, and the other things mentioned would really spark the boys writing and reading I think. I would much appreciate it if someone can do this. I can just put the titles, You Tube videos, and other materials in a Word doc to be added to our study.

[Nan in Mass]

Just remember that for some children, their favourite book is too sacred to discuss. I know that it can deepen one,s appreciation for a book, but that is only true if one,s internal version of the book matches the standard version. If one desperately needs one,s internal version of a book to remain the same, then it might be a bad idea to risk altering it by discussion and study. And many children just don,t want to do something unfun with something that has always been fun.Tolkien,s books are so rich and glorious, well worth studying, but not for everyone or at every age. Maybe ask before you begin and then keep an eye on how things are developing and switch to Shakespeare or something if necessay...

 

Nan

[Saddlemomma]

We are doing the Hobbit and LOTR for Lit this year as well.  I have gleaned a ton of helpful resources from the suggestions of all of you on this thread.  I thought I would share one of the resources for our study which I found on YouTube.  

 

There is a series of lectures on

(3 Parts),

, and

(2 Parts) by Dr. Ryan Reeves of Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. In addition, you can see a live lecture by Peter Kreeft  at Biola University on YT entitled,

 and "LOTR and Evil", a 5 Part audio lecture also on YT.  

[jjeepa]

We are doing the Hobbit and LOTR for Lit this year as well.  I have gleaned a ton of helpful resources from the suggestions of all of you on this thread.  I thought I would share one of the resources for our study which I found on YouTube.  

 

There is a series of lectures on Silmarillion (3 Parts), The Hobbit, and Themes in the LOTR (2 Parts) by Dr. Ryan Reeves of Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. In addition, you can see a live lecture by Peter Kreeft  at Biola University on YT entitled, "Christian Themes in LOTR" and "LOTR and Evil", a 5 Part audio lecture also on YT.  

 

I'm doing LLfLOTR with my 12 yr old dd this fall, and an in-depth study on Tolkien with my 18 year old ds at the same time.  These lectures look perfect!  Thanks for posting.

 

This entire thread has been so helpful!

[Lori D.]

Bumping, since there's another recent thread asking about doing Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings, and this thread has so many great extension ideas for that -- or for creating your own unique LotR study! (:D

In case some of these were not linked elsewhere in this thread, here are some links I provided to my co-op class students the last time I taught the Lord of the Rings trilogy: 

Middle Earth
- Encyclopedia of Arda =  online atlas of Middle Earth
- Timeline of The One Ring -- in a ring-shape!
- Tolkien Gateway = info on all the characters, places, events of Middle Earth
- interactive maps: 3rin.gs; LOTR Interactive Map Project
- "Lay of Nimrodel" = Legolas' song set to music and sung
- Arwen Undomiel = Elvish language website

Tolkien
- Tolkien Society = all about Tolkien / appreciation of Tolkien and his writings
- "Christianity in The Lord of the Rings" = lecture series about Tolkien's faith by Peter Kreeft
- audio recordings of Tolkien = singing Sam's troll song; reading Merry's song at the Prancing Pony Inn
- Tolkien poems = read online

Guides to the books
- The Hobbit; The Fellowship of the Ring; The Two Towers; The Return of the King = lecture series on Tolkien's books by Corey Olsen of Mythgard

Beowulf
- Beowulf manuscript = flip through the pages of the online electronic version of the 1000-year-old manuscript
- Beowulf for Beginners website = names pronounced; summaries; background info; etc.
- Beowulf names = written help on pronunciation; audio of names pronounced
- Sutton Hoo and an article on its history = Anglo Saxon burial mound site
- Anglo Saxon "gold hoard" = photos of artifacts from burial mounds

King Arthur
- Timeless Myths website: articles on King Arthur and Camelot (his court and knights)
- Chivalry and the Medieval Knight's Code of Conduct
- Bulfinch's Mythology: Age of Chivalry, or Legends of King Arthur  -- read online
- Andrew Lang retelling of King Arthur and Tales of the Round Table -- read online

Miscellaneous
- "Old English in Lord of the Rings" = article by Dave Wilton
- Tengwar Calligraphy = type of writing done by Tolkien
- How Manuscripts Are Made -- 6-min. video

Extension Activities
- Walk to Rivendell Challenge
- Middle Earth recipes

[maize]

Thanks for bumping!