# Help with simple math concept

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Ds is having trouble adding double digit (no carrying) numbers in columns.

Take 53 + 24

First he's not really understanding that you write it

53

24

Once I write it out, he wants to add 50 + 70 because they're in the tens column. He even says this after I walk him through 3+4, 5+2.

He can add 54 + 4 with no problems, but not once written vertical.

He just isn't grasping it in the slightest.

I thought I'd post before we try again.

Any ideas using as little spoken language as possible?

He's not going to be able to explain anything, nor does he know what he's not understanding. I'll know he gets it once he can do a handful of problems without error.

Any ideas for a more hands on, inexpensive curriculum as we move forward?

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Does he want to add 50+20 or 50+70? Where does he take 70 from?

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Does he want to add 50+20 or 50+70? Where does he take 70 from?

Oh, ha ha. Lol. I messed up on MY simple math. He wants to add 50 and 20.

I just checked out the khan academy video. I may be able to help him by expanding everything. I'm going to try it and see it that helps.

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Have you tried turning a lined sheet of paper on its side and writing the numbers with the line between the columns? Sorry I can't help more.

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Can he do it vertically with manipulatives? Take 5 bundled tens and 3 individual items, then put 2 bundled tens and 4 items lined up below. Put the tens to the left like the tens column with the units on the right. Can he do that?

Is the problem that he is starting from the tens? Because he could add 50 + 20 + 3 + 4 and get the same answer. It's just too jumbly once you work in regrouping.

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I think the columns/boxes may be messing him up a bit.

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Here's what I would do. I'd teach him with dimes and pennies.

53= 5 dimes and 3 pennies

24=2 dimes and 4 pennies.

Tell him that you add the pennies first so that if they make up ten or more you can "change" the pennies into a dime. (prelude to carrying)

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He should be doing this with base ten blocks for a while, then writing it down.

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I'm going to try with manipulatives.

He's kinda sorta getting it, but then something throws him off.

:(

I get a whopping 30 seconds or so to work him through a problem before he starts falling off the chair, throwing a pencil, cutting me off, etc. I know he's "acting up" because he doesn't get it, but he'll never get it if he doesn't stop the behaviors.

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He should be doing this with base ten blocks for a while, then writing it down.

He doesn't have the patience to actually learn any of the lessons which is why it's been going so slow.

I will get out the toys and try to get him to play with me.

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There actually is a new way of teaching addition that some elementary schools are teaching. It involves adding from left to write. There are lots of sites that explain it, but here are a couple. It adds one column at a time with no carrying over. (Although sometimes that's still necessary at the very end.)

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/62955.html

Maybe this would be an introduction to column adding, and then eventually you could move to the traditional way.

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I'd recommend Semple math for learning adding in columns. The "kids" are the ones and the "teenagers" are the tens. Since they're little, the kids get to go first. Later on, when you're carrying, the extra ten has to go stand with the teenagers and join their line. This helped Geezle a lot to remember the procedure.

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I'm going to try with manipulatives.

He's kinda sorta getting it, but then something throws him off.

:(

I get a whopping 30 seconds or so to work him through a problem before he starts falling off the chair, throwing a pencil, cutting me off, etc. I know he's "acting up" because he doesn't get it, but he'll never get it if he doesn't stop the behaviors.

He doesn't have the patience to actually learn any of the lessons which is why it's been going so slow.

I will get out the toys and try to get him to play with me.

At his age the manipulatives *ARE* the lesson.

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I agree with base 10 blocks.

Use the blocks first. Then have him use the blocks while you do the writing. Then have him use the blocks and do the writing. Only then do you move on to the writing only.

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At his age the manipulatives *ARE* the lesson.

They're only the lesson when the lesson is actually worked on.

He'll make houses and war set ups with all manipulatives and not worry about numbers. If I try to jump in and have him add the wars together, I'm doing it wrong according to him.

I've tried giving him numbers to work with, but it's never "right."

He can't add 2 tens because they're the General of different armies.

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They're only the lesson when the lesson is actually worked on.

He'll make houses and war set ups with all manipulatives and not worry about numbers. If I try to jump in and have him add the wars together, I'm doing it wrong according to him.

I've tried giving him numbers to work with, but it's never "right."

He can't add 2 tens because they're the General of different armies.

I think you're missing my point...at his age, math is not a paper and pencil lesson. The lesson is learning with the manipulatives.

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Just throwing this out there. We have been doing an activity in RightStart where I give ds a bunch of cards with pictures of base ten blocks in 1's, 10's, 100's, and 1000's. For instance, I 'd give him 22 ones and he would give me ten at a time and 'trade' for 10s and then he'd take the 10s and put them in groups of 10 which he would then trade for 100s. I don't think I'm explaining very well! It might be enough of a manipulative to help, but not enough fun to make armies.

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Give him a day off, go get about 100 little green army men (they are soooo cheap).

Tell him that he has two armies with unequal forces - one with 54 and one with 24 (or whatever numbers). What should he do?!?! Should they even out? How would they do that?

Or - an army with 100 men loses 30 in battle - how many are left? So on....

He'll get it. I think he just needs to let the frustration die down. My younger DS would just completely shut off at a certain frustration level.

Hang in there.

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I used dimes and pennies to show this concept. Have him exchange 10 pennies for 1 dime. Keep having him add pennies (ones) until he gets that a dime represents one ten. Then have him make 24 and 53 using dimes and pennies. Line up the pennies and line up the dimes vertically. He should easily "see" that he has 7 pennies (ones) and 7 dimes (tens).

I made a game out of making 100 with dimes and pennies with my students when they were younger. They made a column for pennies, dimes and dollars. I gave them pennies to lay vertically in the ones column. When they had ten, they'd trade them in for a dime which they placed in the tens column. We did the same with dimes. You can make a game out of it. Worked with subtracting too. They understood what "carrying and borrowing" means visually. "Regrouping" is a better word and used in place of carrying/borrowing these days.

hth

K

http://www.theteachersguide.com/mathactivities2.htm

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I think you're missing my point...at his age, math is not a paper and pencil lesson. The lesson is learning with the manipulatives.

I do get it. Really! :)

Put paper aside and teach him to add with manipulatives. He can't/refuses to do it. His brain gets stuck on his war and now these manipulatives represent absolutely nothing more than figures in his war. They're all single figures with the 10's and 100's just being more powerful than the 1's. but in his war, they're not 1, 10, 100. It's just a soldier, general and maybe a random giant.

I've been able to teach him very simple addition, subtraction and multiplication with his wars, but he's very stuck with bigger numbers because it messes up his entire set up. I had hoped that I could get it to click on paper first so he didn't get so stuck, but it didn't work. Sometimes paper first helps and he can "explain" with manipulatives. But again, it's been tiny numbers.

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I think I'm too stuck on the curriculum because of the therapists. I always feel like I have to show them something, and they expect paper and pencil activities. And of course I have to turn in a portfolio next month.

I will get new army guys and bring him into MY war! He can't change it if it's mine.

Hopefully he can take the chapter test next week with me writing.

Next chapter is money which he's got fairly well.

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Ds is having trouble adding double digit (no carrying) numbers in columns.

Take 53 + 24

First he's not really understanding that you write it

53

24

Once I write it out, he wants to add 50 + 70 because they're in the tens column. He even says this after I walk him through 3+4, 5+2.

He can add 54 + 4 with no problems, but not once written vertical.

He just isn't grasping it in the slightest.

I thought I'd post before we try again.

Any ideas using as little spoken language as possible?

He's not going to be able to explain anything, nor does he know what he's not understanding. I'll know he gets it once he can do a handful of problems without error.

Any ideas for a more hands on, inexpensive curriculum as we move forward?

If you haven't already tried MUS, I would recommend it. Here is how two digit addition is explained in Beta:

53+24 is re-written in expanded place value notation (so that the child understands the value of each part of the number and that we can only add like items). It would become:

50 + 3

+ 20 + 4

Since we can only add like items (units and tens, or in your son's case soldiers and squads of ten soldiers), we add to get 7 units (or soldiers) and seven tens (or squads). 70 + 7 can be added to make 77, and the student has the answer. MUS has the student do all of the problems like this until they understand what they are doing with the traditional algorithm.

I would keep going with your son's soldier use of manipulatives, but introduce it on your terms...one unit is a soldier, ten soldiers is a squad, ten squads of soldiers would make a platoon, then introduce the first comma as the word thousand. It is all about how the numbers are grouped in place value, not by the name (unit, ten, platoon, whatever) that we give them and the understanding that there is only room for nine in each group (i.e. only nine squads, once you have ten you have a whole platoon).

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Thank you!

I'd been looking at MUS, but the price stopped me. We've been using MM and while I like it, I think ds needs something like MUS.

I'll be building my armies and will try more tomorrow. :)

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