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Do you ever feel your kids are dumb


mom2agang
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and it's your fault? My dd asked me what a paragraph is.She's the worlds worst speller and struggles with reading comprehension. She's great in math. I am doing Writing strands 3 with her. Last year we did IEW. Reading I have her do narration after I read it.She's in 6th grade and I feel she won't be ready for hs in 2 yrs. What am I missing or doing wrong?

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Eh, kids are dumb. It's not just yours. They are all doing stupid stuff, saying stupid stuff, and generally running around acting like fools here and there. I used to think it was just my kids, because I was certainly not stupid as a kid :closedeyes:. I've started paying attention to other kids, however, and I realize that I was either the exception or not as smart as I remember, because all the kids I see now do stupid stuff.

 

It could be 2 things with the paragraphs. Either she was having a dumb moment and really knows what paragraphs are and forgot for a bit or you haven't given her the definition for it yet. It's ok. There's lots of stuff to cover and it's not a big deal if she doesn't know what a paragraph is as long as she can write one and as long as you help her now that you realize she doesn't know. You haven't failed her. She's great in math- celebrate that! Then, keep trudging along with the writing. In 6th grade, if she still struggles, I would have her type more often than not so she can use spell check and focus more on her writing than her spelling. I find my kids will write poorer paragraphs if they are worried about spelling. They will choose easier words and easier sentences to minimize mistakes.

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Do you think she might have something like dyslexia? I'd take a look at the book Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz and see if anything resonates.

 

 

:iagree:

I'm sure homeschoolers who post about their children's academic struggles hate to hear "Is it due to a learning disability?" But based on the things you said about your daughter, I definitely think you need to look into dyslexic characteristics and see if they resonate with you. A great free source is Susan Barton's site www.brightsolutions.us It's really and truly a resource site about dyslexia, not an advertisement for her program. I've heard her speak live, and she mentioned her program briefly (about two minutes worth of time) at the end of a 3 1/2 hour talk. She says, and I agree, that spelling, not reading, is the #1 indicator of dyslexia in school age kids. Some dyslexics are able to learn to read fairly well, but all will struggle with spelling unless they're instructed in a very specific way.

 

And, yes, celebrate her successes! I don't imagine that she's actually stupid, and, based on what you say you've done with her, it doesn't sound like her struggles are your fault.

 

And, even though I'm an afterschooler, I need to tell you that I've been at a similar place with my little dyslexic (he's now 8 and in second grade). Despite being read to ALL THE TIME and playing lots of alphabet and number games, when he went into kindergarten he didn't know the alphabet (let alone the letter sounds) and couldn't count to 20. Before I figured out WHY he was struggling with those things, I was beating myself up over doing something wrong when he was in preschool.

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Do you think she might have something like dyslexia? I'd take a look at the book Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz and see if anything resonates.

 

 

:iagree:

I'm sure homeschoolers who post about their children's academic struggles hate to hear "Is it due to a learning disability?" But based on the things you said about your daughter, I definitely think you need to look into dyslexic characteristics and see if they resonate with you. A great free source is Susan Barton's site www.brightsolutions.us It's really and truly a resource site about dyslexia, not an advertisement for her program. I've heard her speak live, and she mentioned her program briefly (about two minutes worth of time) at the end of a 3 1/2 hour talk. She says, and I agree, that spelling, not reading, is the #1 indicator of dyslexia in school age kids. Some dyslexics are able to learn to read fairly well, but all will struggle with spelling unless they're instructed in a very specific way.

 

And, yes, celebrate her successes! I don't imagine that she's actually stupid, and, based on what you say you've done with her, it doesn't sound like her struggles are your fault.

 

And, even though I'm an afterschooler, I need to tell you that I've been at a similar place with my little dyslexic (he's now 8 and in second grade). Despite being read to ALL THE TIME and playing lots of alphabet and number games, when he went into kindergarten he didn't know the alphabet (let alone the letter sounds) and couldn't count to 20. Before I figured out WHY he was struggling with those things, I was beating myself up over doing something wrong when he was in preschool.

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My dd asked me what a paragraph is.

Gotta laugh. :lol: Kids are fabulous. Just when you are sure they totally understand a topic, they say something ridiculous. Learning terms and material isn't always linear. Sometimes children are using skills and they have simply have forgotten what the skill is called. Sometimes children loose a term somewhere in their cluttered little brain. If you are sure it is in there, just remind and move on. If you are not sure that they have that piece of knowledge, just give it to them and move on.

 

HTH-

Mandy

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I agree with looking into dyslexia. My son can be taught something everyday for a week and not remember it when asked. I've come to realize that I'm best to actively teach him new concepts including working through assignments jointly then have him to problems independently that are review concepts. The review goes back to the beginning of the year. It takes a long time for things to stick yet his reading comprehension is at a adult level. In order to address things like paragraphs, etc I'm starting a memory box type system so we can go over those things all year long and even into next year.

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As well I agree with the fact that sometimes a child just forgets, does or says stuff that comes off dumb. I sat with a friends junior high homeschool dd who gets an amazing education and she didnt know a square from a rectangle or how to spell 3 letter words. She's a bright child and I think she had a momentary pre teen lapse.

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In most cases kids are not dumb or learning disabled. Requiring all children to use curriculum developed for gifted children just doesn't work, and over the past 2 decades PS and homeschooled students are being pushed and pushed and pushed farther and farther and farther away from developmentally appropriate curricula. They are rushed through the basics before they are ready to understand, never mind master, them, and then dumped into curricula that is so full of details and rigor that they cannot even see the basics and main ideas, if they are even still included.

 

"Not gifted" is not learning disabled or dumb, it's just NORMAL, and a lovely sight to behold.

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I think many kids (most?) just need more review than we would care to provide. :)

 

Amen, and amen. Our best subject here is Latin. So no, my boys are not dumb when they struggle with place value, or spelling or remembering that proper names are capitalized. But you know what? Because I am learning Latin with them I insist on lots, and lots and lots of review.

We recite like a bunch of young parrots. We write forms and forms, we read, we discuss, we are all about the Roman history section because none of us know a lot. And because all three of us are students, the lessons, while formal are a lot more on even footing.

 

Sometimes it's worth approaching a difficult subject as a student, or at least with a student's point of view. (And that would include figuring out if there is something standing in the way of that student's learning!) And it helps to think of what you would do to help yourself learn something that doesn't come naturally, or that you don't have a great deal of experience with. I find that it helps me do a few things that keep me in a good frame of mind: First, I start to have more reasonable expectations and start to set some goals, Secondly, I am humbled by all I don't know which makes me a more sympathetic teacher. Third, I appreciate the need for copious review--let's face it, the less intuative it is, the more we have to work at it.

Fourth, I really begin to focus on progress, instead of on perfection. I am fond of telling the boys that if you want to be good at something, you practice, and practice, and practice. But what I am less good at is remembering that practice is best when you look back where you started and see how far you have come. I don't praise and honor hard their hard work enough, and that's the truth.

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My kids have only been doing this for 2 years and are much younger than yours, so I may not be the best advisor here. But here goes anyway.

 

My son will sometimes say something that shows zero understanding of something I know he knows. It used to freak me out especially if it was in front of somebody else, but here's what I do now:

1. Sit in very passive silence for about 5 seconds. This is probably what might happen if he said something boneheaded in a meeting at work in his future, so I figure it's good for him to learn this may be a cue to think over his last statement.

2. Ask it back to him in a question, "Well, what is a paragraph?" or "What can you tell me about paragraphs?"

 

Often he will sort of snap awake in scenario one and realize he's said something a bit goofy.

In scenario 2 he usually knows all the stuff we've worked on, he may even have been groping for the connection between terminology and information.

 

In either scenario I do tend to take it as a cue to find ways to review- my kid isn't very strong in reading/writing yet either, so we would review phonograms until he knows them without even thinking about it. I think you're getting good advice from more advanced hs'ers here on specifics with your programs.

 

This next part I'm saying very gently. I'm not crazy about calling kids dumb either way, and when things like that have popped into my head I very quickly replace them with something better. If my kids struggle with something, it's my job to see how I can best serve them. When I'm defeating myself and them with negative crap (and it does creep in, I think everyone has experienced that) then I'm not as good at my job. I'm getting distracted. I know you're here to find ways to help her/you, but that word really bugs me when I find it in my own thoughts. That's how I see it, anyway.

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Every child is unique and will be who they are meant to be, but...

 

 

If my child is ignorant of a specific piece of information because I have not taught it, then that is my responsibility. But, I may have chosen not to teach that information yet. I am responsible for regularly assessing what I have taught and what I still need to teach.

 

If my child is struggling and needs intervention or assistance and I don't provide it, then that is my responsibility. I have a duty to review my child's strengths and weaknessess and make a determination as to whether or not the child is performing as I would expect given his or her age and exposure (what I've taught). If there are real weaknesses that I am not able to help the child overcome, then I'm responsible for finding out if there is more that can be done to overcome the limitation or find a way to accomodate the child's need.

 

I would hold myself responsible if I just tried one teaching method and gave up or if I didn't teach something that was necessary. I see myself as a facilitator for learning.

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Actually, I think it's great that she asked this question! Sometimes kids don't know something and they don't speak up at all. Or they kinda-sorta know something, but never bother to find out if their understanding is correct or not. She didn't ignore those thoughts and instead asked a question. This is what lifelong learners do. I would do everything in my power to respond positively to any question asked, no matter how basic it seems to me, and celebrate that she wants to know instead of just coasting through her work.

 

A friend of mine went to visit a local K-4 magnet school, and asked what happens when the kids go to 5th grade (they don't have room to add upper grades). The principal had several things to say, but one I thought was particularly poignant--they tell the new school that these kids have been taught to ask questions for years and to please not squash that in any way. It's sad to me that their perception of the other PS in our areas is that questions are not welcomed and are seen as disrespectful or otherwise not a good thing.

 

Any question, no matter how basic, is an opportunity for you to see some gaps your child has, and then teach those things. Rather than label her as "dumb" or heap guilt on yourself...celebrate that she is willing to ask.

 

I do agree with others that her struggles with reading comprehension and spelling could be related to a learning disability, and it's worth looking into. But that isn't "dumb" either (and in fact, kids who do have learning disabilities are often also gifted). They just learn differently and need to be taught a bit differently--(love the comment about how we don't review as much as our kids need, so true!). Now is a good time to learn more about her needs and figure out how to help her continue to blossom into a wonderful young woman.

 

Merry :-)

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In most cases kids are not dumb or learning disabled. Requiring all children to use curriculum developed for gifted children just doesn't work, and over the past 2 decades PS and homeschooled students are being pushed and pushed and pushed farther and farther and farther away from developmentally appropriate curricula. They are rushed through the basics before they are ready to understand, never mind master, them, and then dumped into curricula that is so full of details and rigor that they cannot even see the basics and main ideas, if they are even still included.

 

"Not gifted" is not learning disabled or dumb, it's just NORMAL, and a lovely sight to behold.

 

 

This is my favorite post of the day!

 

The more I read about brain research (which isn't a lot; I'm not an expert!), the more I feel that we need to really be following the classical model. We need to be giving them the bssics and really practicing it. The more they know, the more they can learn. But throwing them ALL into gifted curricula of rigor and complex thinking probably is not the way to go.

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If you know your dd is dyslexic I would recommend reading Dyslexic Advantage and Upside down Brilliance(not necesecarily for dyslexia but for VSLs). It made me see my boys in a whole new light. I am in daily awe about their abilities, all the stuff I never saw before because I was so focused on their disabilities. As dyslexics get older ( if their problems are addressed) they actually get smarter and you start to see the other side of the spectrum. "Dumb" seems to morph into brilliance.

 

CIP- My hubby was severely dyslexic as a child. He was put into special education in the 70s where they but everyone with disabilities including mental retardation, and taught them nothing. His parents completely gave up on him ever learning to read. He went to college and majored in physics and biology and thought Calculus was easy!

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How about the day my dd#2 looked at me & asked what the little boxes on the calendar meant? Like she'd forgotten the every-single-day-for-two-and-a-half-years that we'd done Calendar?!

 

Or the kid who confuses minutes with days? As in, "We'll leave in 15 minutes." The reply, "But that's over TWO WEEKS AWAY?!?!" (This one doesn't have a problem with math.)

 

I've been known to look at my dh & loudly state that whomever is teaching this child [whatever subject they just butchered] should be FIRED immediately!

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So, my oldest is reading McGuffey third. This is "actually reading," yes? She's done phonics until it comes out her ears.

 

Recently she swore up and down that the letter "b" makes both the /b/ and /d/ sound. Not just said it. She _insisted_ on it.

 

Occasionally she'll complete an entire worksheet of math problems with some strange mistake. She'll start subtracting as if it's commutative, She'll take place value as a suggestion.

 

Yesterday she finished writing her spelling words . . . sans vowels.

 

Moments like that keep me humble. How to school teachers keep themselves from screaming?

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"Not gifted" is not learning disabled or dumb, it's just NORMAL, and a lovely sight to behold.

 

THANK YOU!!!!!! It seems that normal is the new learning disabled. Some people aren't happy unless their child is gifted or accelerated beyond grade level.

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THANK YOU!!!!!! It seems that normal is the new learning disabled. Some people aren't happy unless their child is gifted or accelerated beyond grade level.

 

(Bolded mine) and it is really sad. I read so many "my kid is advanced" and "what can I do with my advanced K'er or 3yo" posts it makes me want to puke. It's almost like you aren't a good hser if your dc are not ahead or advanced in some way. My dc are all perfectly normal, and I am okay with that. Every once in a great while I have a niggling doubt that is my 7yo is not ready for Algebra in 5th grade we will be failing. However, that feeling is passing and I remind myself that they are how God made them, they are only little once, and Algebra in 9th grade used to be the norm. Or maybe I am just old. :)

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Can I just say I LOVE this thread! It is just amazingly comforting to know 1) I am not the only one to have fleeting thoughts of "really?!?" When it comes to something crazy my children say or do. And 2) my children aren't the only ones forgetting things like "how to read" or "how to subtract" randomly! :lol:

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This weeks moment was.... 2-2=5

 

Now, this is in my child with major issues, and it came up when we started MM 2A for review.... obviously 2A was a bit ambitious on my part. UGH.

 

Anyway, kids can be strange - even my 17 does/says things that make me ponder where she grew up at time! :p

 

Then there was the 2nd grade PS last night..... ye gads.

 

But I do also love that everyone has "my kids" at their houses. I do love feeling normal!

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This thread makes me happy. My daughter had a moment in math yesterday where I was kind of speechless. She is squarely on grade level in math. Not above, not below, just average. Which, I am completely fine with. One of the addition problems on her review yesterday was 5+2=?, and she seriously just stared at it like it was the first time she'd seen numbers. I just told her she had five minutes left and walked away. When I came back she was done and they were all correct. For a minute there though...

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My two had a day like that on Tuesday. DH was out of work, so he took over schooling and let me sleep in. I came out when he was checking work, and Sylvia had tons of errors in her math. I swear, I actually teach them stuff! They were acting like feral children who never learned a thing in their lives.

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I feel better now. She wrote a paragraph today :) Well last night at a Jewelry party a lady and her DD (11th grade Homeschooler)insisted there wasn't different types of Pronouns. And I wasting my time teaching my son useless grammar. :o (They are Know it all type people.) I didn't argue. I just said I'm very please with our grammar program.Analytical Grammar covers all my son needs for grammar.

It made my day kinda. Wow! My kids are getting a good education. We might just need to review some.

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In most cases kids are not dumb or learning disabled. Requiring all children to use curriculum developed for gifted children just doesn't work, and over the past 2 decades PS and homeschooled students are being pushed and pushed and pushed farther and farther and farther away from developmentally appropriate curricula. They are rushed through the basics before they are ready to understand, never mind master, them, and then dumped into curricula that is so full of details and rigor that they cannot even see the basics and main ideas, if they are even still included.

 

"Not gifted" is not learning disabled or dumb, it's just NORMAL, and a lovely sight to behold.

 

 

This is the best thing I have read or heard all day...I tell you, Hunter, you have some of the best advice on these boards...

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I'm another that is happy to read this thread! The other day my 6.5 yr old, who has been sounding out letters since age 2.5, couldn't remember what sound the A makes!!!! What? ???

 

 

I think with him it is a matter of his interest. He'd really rather play then do anything, so if he's not interested or caring about it at the moment, he chooses not to access the information in his brain and tells me "I don't know."

 

drives me nuts, but glad to see it is normal. I'm coming to the conclusion that I need to just stick to the bare basics for a couple more years.

 

 

 

I am also a lover of Hunter's posts! Just got in books she recommended - "How is my ---grader doing in school? LOVE THEM! Such a help to me as to what to expect developmentally of my child. Thanks so much HUNTER!

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They make you scratch your head sometimes but they aren't dumb. Here is one thing a wise person told me that I TRY so hard to remember:

 

Everyone has a reason they do something. If your kids seem to be doing something very strange, remember that they have their own thought process. If its working, let it go. If its not, ASK them, lovingly, why they chose the path they chose.

 

As far as not knowing what a paragraph is, that could be just a brain fart, or it could be lack of teaching and consistency on your part. Its probably just the former.

 

Our kids today have so much to learn and so many things to juggle. I think in some ways it's hard to be a kid nowadays.

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I am so glad for this thread. My kids are average, and I feel like I am failing bc all hs kids should be super smart, right?

 

Dd11 asked me today where my sister attends church. I said, "Westminster." She said, "Oh, Westminster Abbey?" Um, no, dear child. That's in London. We are in NC.

 

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(Bolded mine) and it is really sad. I read so many "my kid is advanced" and "what can I do with my advanced K'er or 3yo" posts it makes me want to puke. It's almost like you aren't a good hser if your dc are not ahead or advanced in some way. My dc are all perfectly normal, and I am okay with that. Every once in a great while I have a niggling doubt that is my 7yo is not ready for Algebra in 5th grade we will be failing. However, that feeling is passing and I remind myself that they are how God made them, they are only little once, and Algebra in 9th grade used to be the norm. Or maybe I am just old. :)

 

 

I must be old too because I am actually refusing to start anybody in algebra before high school.

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My oldest is a pretty bright kid, but he's on the spectrum (PDD) and there are times that I feel really frustrated with where he is in math. It's always two steps forward, one back. I can't count how many times I've said, "we've been over this a million times." And then he gets it!!! (Yay!!!) We move on and then * that* topic pops up and I'm reteaching again!! It is crazy-making.

 

I think that when you know that your child has some *thing* that is getting in the way of learning (the OP knows her dd has dyslexia, I know my ds's auditory processing issues and his limits in understanding the abstract) then you feel that frustration so much more. Sometimes I have to step back and realize that it's normal for 4th graders to to just "suck" at school sometimes. Even when they're bright and capable. Regardless of whatever they may have been dx'ed.

 

So yes, I've laid to rest the image of brilliant, advanced homeschooler who can get into Harvard at 14 a loooong time ago. I'm perfectly happy with a normal child, with a normal (albeit individually tailored) education.

 

One day at a time. We'll get to algebra when we get there.

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"How is my ---grader doing in school? LOVE THEM! Such a help to me as to what to expect developmentally of my child. Thanks so much HUNTER!

 

 

You are welcome :D I'm falling in love with this series too. Not as much as What Your _ Grader Needs to Know, but still in love. I feel so lucky to have discovered them because I have never heard of them before I found the grade 4 at the library. They are everything that NtK is not, so make a great team approach.

 

This series is so full of balanced WISDOM, and, yes, is developmentally appropriate!

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Weeeellll, I'm kinda sorta feeling like *I'm* dumb these days. :blushing:

 

When I give my first grader a writing assignment to correct the sentences by capitalizing the first letter, and he does his assignment as copywork working away so diligently, and I question why he isn't fixing what's wrong. It turns out he doesn't know (or remember) the difference between uppercase and lowercase letters.

 

I guess it all goes back to that "review" thing. We haven't been reviewing to maintain the info. Oops.

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I feel better now. She wrote a paragraph today :) Well last night at a Jewelry party a lady and her DD (11th grade Homeschooler)insisted there wasn't different types of Pronouns. And I wasting my time teaching my son useless grammar. :o (They are Know it all type people.) I didn't argue. I just said I'm very please with our grammar program.Analytical Grammar covers all my son needs for grammar.

It made my day kinda. Wow! My kids are getting a good education. We might just need to review some.

 

I just recently finished up taking a beginner dog obedience class with our newest dog. One thing the instructor mentioned was that at some point, we may tell our dog to "sit", at a point when they absolutely definitely know "sit" like the back of their paw, but the dog will stand there and look at you like they've never heard the word before in their life. She said it was a "learning plateau", and they'll remember "sit" again soon. It's just that all that they're learning is piling up and being processed, I guess, so they seem to temporarily forget the easy basic stuff they've known forever. It's not really forgotten though.

 

Kids are like that too. My oldest has had some doozies at times, and I just shake my head. :) It's not a review issue for him. It's more of a learning plateau... or just a temporary brain fart. ;) If you ask him the same thing the next day or a week later, he'll remember it right away.

 

I don't think a kid is dumb because they do this. I think probably all kids do this. :tongue_smilie: And while I don't remember doing it, I'll bet if I asked my parents if I did, they'd say absolutely yes. :lol:

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I think Charlotte Mason called these "howlers." I remember making a few when I was a kid.

 

Neighborhood kids have supplied me with a few, too. These are usually seen as evidence by HSing parents (rather smugly) that public school is horrible.

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Well, I know I did this sort of thing when I was younger. I remember spending an entire recess trying to figure out how to spell "of."

In fourth grade, I knew the answer to a specific science test question was oxygen, but didn't have the faintest idea how to spell it. The teacher assured me that spelling didn't count. I still got the question wrong -- why? "Because oxygen isn't spelled with a 'z'!" :banghead:

 

So I do have some patience for my kids in these areas.

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In most cases kids are not dumb or learning disabled. Requiring all children to use curriculum developed for gifted children just doesn't work, and over the past 2 decades PS and homeschooled students are being pushed and pushed and pushed farther and farther and farther away from developmentally appropriate curricula. They are rushed through the basics before they are ready to understand, never mind master, them, and then dumped into curricula that is so full of details and rigor that they cannot even see the basics and main ideas, if they are even still included.

 

"Not gifted" is not learning disabled or dumb, it's just NORMAL, and a lovely sight to behold.

 

Hunter, I think I love you.
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I so wish I had read this at the beginning of schooling, it would have been so helpful on those days my son had amnesia and I was suddenly wondering if he had learned anything at all.

 

I do think that curriculum in PS and HS keeps becoming more advanced however I also see that we have so many more choices which make it much easier to meet our children where they are at. Thank goodness we can use various grade levels of material instead of just one across the board.

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One thing I've found is that right before my kids make a big developmental breakthrough, they will often forget things they knew before. I freaked out with one of my toddlers (can't remember which one but it was probably my oldest), because he/she forgot how to walk right before his/her big vocabulary explosion. It's like all their mental energy is focused on mastering the new skill and they temporarily "lose" the old ones.

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Um. My 11 year old daughter wants to visit Paris and astounded to hear (from me) that Paris is in France. At 11.

 

Yes, children aren't always bright. Lol.

 

Lol. Take her to Paris, TN. And from there you can easily hit Rome as well. Rome, GA that is. ;)

 

My daughter asked to learn cursive and we had been working on it for weeks. She was copying full words. Knew the lowercase letters... Then she said to me, "I wish I knew how to read cursive." Wha? She is a bright kid. And you know what, I say stupid things sometimes, and then wonder about myself. We all have our moments.

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You are welcome :D I'm falling in love with this series too. Not as much as What Your _ Grader Needs to Know, but still in love. I feel so lucky to have discovered them because I have never heard of them before I found the grade 4 at the library. They are everything that NtK is not, so make a great team approach.

 

This series is so full of balanced WISDOM, and, yes, is developmentally appropriate!

 

 

 

that is the best thing about them. I haven't gotten far, but what I have read so far and makes so much sense! I had never heard of them either, until you mentioned them.

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Growing up, I was both exceptionally intelligent and unbelievably dumb, I switched states in the span of mere seconds. Do not despair.

I still have several dumb moments a day and every month or so, I have a couple of 'dumb days' where nothing I do makes sense to the exceptionally intelligent me.

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