NOT FOR DEBATE: When I was in school, evolution was...

[Sisyphus]

My science education never went past ap biology in high school, but I never knew an alternative theory to evolution existed until I started home schooling. It was presented as the theory (using the gravity is also a theory definition) of lifes origins, but not given special emphasis, at least not that I recall.

 

Wait- I had anatomy and biology in college I guess, too, but again, I remember evolution being treated as accepted and not really getting any attention, it was more of a micro level than high school science though so that makes sense.

[Lady Florida.]

I really didn't know they did until I started reading about homeschooling.

 

 

I never heard of creationism or met anyone who believed it until we started homeschooling.

[NASDAQ]

We didn't do much science until we moved into the senior school in seventh grade. Before that, science was an after-thought, and I don't remember evolution coming up. If there was a theme to my junior school science, it was "the earth and the panda bears on it are all doomed because we spill oil on them."

[nansk]

I went to a private Catholic school and we were taught evolutionary theory as science's best educated guess as to what might have happened.

...

I was never even introduced to a Young Earth/Creationist point of view until I came into the home schooling circles.

Exactly this.

[PachiSusan]

We didn't do much science until we moved into the senior school in seventh grade. Before that, science was an after-thought, and I don't remember evolution coming up. If there was a theme to my junior school science, it was "the earth and the panda bears on it are all doomed because we spill oil on them."

 

 

ROTFLMAO - my friend's Mom said that her daughter's science consists of what the evil human beings are doing to the world.

[shawthorne44]

Our science book one year had a cover that showed a progression from some gorilla/ape-ish animal to modern man. But the topic was never covered. I don't remember anything being skipped over, we probably just never got to it.

[Erin]

I wasn't as shocked, but still surprised and disappointed, when I was looking for Life Science/Biology curricula for next year and could not find a single one that includes evolution (we just started homeschooling 6 month ago).

 

OT: If this is middle grades level, look for Holt Science and Technology Life Science. Not only is it secular, it's a good series (there's also Earth Science and Physical Science). Not sure how in depth they get with evolution in particular, but that would be the direction it would come from. Also, Earth Science definitely works from the Big Bang, so I would think Life would present evolution.

[ocelotmom]

I don't remember. I suspect we were but couldn't say for sure.

 

I am sure I wasn't taught creationism, but I can't remember specifically being taught evolution before high school, either.

[Dahliarw]

In middle biology school I got a C on a test because one of the essay questions asked "how did life begin" and I wrote what I believed. The prof was an athiest. I did get the rest of the test questions correct, so you know how much that one question was worth! This was the early 90s.

[weederberries]

 

ETA: My friend above grew up in Texas, and I'm pretty sure when I first heard of anyone not believing in evolution, it was regarding controversy around including it or Creationism or both in schools in Texas, and it seems I've heard Texas disproportionately mentioned in similar threads. I wonder how highly concentrated (geographically) those who reject evolution are.

 

 

 

Texas is part of the Bible Belt. I think it stands to reason you'd find a higher concentration of creationists in the south. Throughout my public school career, it was an unwritten rule that no homework was to be assigned on Wednesday nights because that was Bible Study/Youth Group night at church. If it was assigned, it wasn't due until Friday. There was (is?) a high enough concentration to make that rule practical and wide-spread. I attended schools all over the huge state of TX and this was consistent.

[MASHomeschooler]

OT: If this is middle grades level, look for Holt Science and Technology Life Science. Not only is it secular, it's a good series (there's also Earth Science and Physical Science). Not sure how in depth they get with evolution in particular, but that would be the direction it would come from. Also, Earth Science definitely works from the Big Bang, so I would think Life would present evolution.

 

 

Thanks! Sorry, I should have mentioned I just looked at lower elementary level, as my oldest will be 8. I wasn't expecting anything super involved at this level, just that it would be touched on in context. For example, we are doing our own thing on oceans and sea life this year and we naturally touched on it with whales. But I will definitely make a note of the Holt series for later. Thanks again!

[Joshin]

Grade school in the early 80's, I remember talking about Darwin and can vaguely remember the familiar image of early man to upright human on the projector. Middle school I know we had a full unit on it in biology in 8th grade, and I think we studied it in science in 6th or 7th. It wasn't a big deal at the time.

 

I went to public school in a small town outside of Dallas, TX. I didn't realize there was any debate about it until I began homeschooling.

[MASHomeschooler]

 

 

Texas is part of the Bible Belt. I think it stands to reason you'd find a higher concentration of creationists in the south. Throughout my public school career, it was an unwritten rule that no homework was to be assigned on Wednesday nights because that was Bible Study/Youth Group night at church. If it was assigned, it wasn't due until Friday. There was (is?) a high enough concentration to make that rule practical and wide-spread. I attended schools all over the huge state of TX and this was consistent.

 

 

That does make sense. It is just so different from where I grew up and where I live now; I find the whole idea of schools being so under the influence of a religious group intriguing.

[happymomofboys]

I got the basics of evolution in trickles over time. Dinosaurs, fossils, geologic record, genetic variation, etc. were talked about all through elementary and middle school. It wasn't until high school that we discussed "the theory of evolution" and Darwin. My biology teacher made it very clear that she thought it was fiction. She validated students who would argue for a 6 24-hour day creation in class and basically made the topic something we just had to get through so we could get on to the real science. I am actually very, very grateful that I didn't come to saving faith in Christ until my mid 20's after I'd developed critical thinking skills or I might have lived my whole life believing that there was only one Christian view to be held when it came to evolution.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't remember it ever being discussed at those levels. I went to a secular private elementary with one year in American public school and it didn't come up or if it did, I don't remember it at all. I went to a religious private school for middle school (junior high back then) and I don't remember it coming up then either, though at that same school we did discuss it in high school. And I do remember some of what we studied otherwise. I knew about it but that was simply from t.v., books etc.

[asta]

I find it fascinating how many posters on this thread went to Catholic school.

 

(The RCC holds, as someone pointed out, the belief of one creator who set the evolutionary process in motion).

 

I went to public school, with great science teachers and a Catholic theologian mom.

 

 

A

[Rosie_0801]

I'm not entirely sure we did science in primary school, so no evolution was covered there. Dinosaurs were mentioned (because they are cool, I suppose.) An old earth was a given. I don't remember anything evolution related in years 7 and 8, but we spent the first six months of year seven learning about how we shouldn't burn ourselves with the bunsen burners so I may have blocked the tedium from my memory. I had never heard of a YECer in Australia until last year, though I imagine she's not the only one. :p

[Annabel Lee]

For those grades, I was mostly in conservative Christian private schools. I heard a lot about it, but wasn't actually taught it. I was told it was wrong and I remember presentations from guest speakers (Ken Ham, perhaps? It was that type of presentation.) Looking back, evolution was presented in an over-simplified manner; never truly taught. I've learned more about evolution from reading Ruth in NZ's posts recently than I did my entire k-12 education. BUT - I did go to public school when I was older and don't remember it being addressed there at all.

[nansk]

I find it fascinating how many posters on this thread went to Catholic school.

(The RCC holds, as someone pointed out, the belief of one creator who set the evolutionary process in motion).

 

My Catholic school was a govt-aided school in a secular country. Girls of several different religions attended. No religious beliefs were ever taught in science class. I have chosen to send my dd to a Catholic govt-aided school, too. There is no question of the big bang and evolution not being taught as part of science here.

[kentuckymom]

I was in public elementary school in Michigan in the 80's, and I remember evolution being taught in science classes. You know, back when elementary schoolers actually had regular science classes.....

 

For some reason, I still have a distinct memory of an image projected on the wall showing the likely evolutionary progression of land mammals turning into sea mammals. Maybe it stuck with me because I was obsessed with whales and dolphins.

 

I don't think I heard about Darwin directly until at least middle school, but we definitely touched on evolutionary ideas as early as second grade (that's when the slide I distinctly remember was covered). And old earth was assumed. I really didn't know there was a controversy until I was an adult.

[xixstar]

So glad I'm not the only one that has no clue what was taught and how much etc. I went to public schools in Oklahoma and Texas and recall studying evolution - I don't remember anything about Big Bang really, maybe it was given a nod and that was all. My foundation of science was tadpoles to frogs to birds to people, - well that's a memory from childhood, probably wasn't specifically instructed that way just a drawing or something that stood out in my mind and memory.

 

I think this reason that I get so surprised about 'debate' over the topic or what is taught in school because it feels like a closed and shut case from 25 years ago. Not starting a debate here, just commenting on my surprise when the subject comes up.

 

(another anthropology major here too, op! but mainly social-cultural but did enjoy the physical aspect that I studied a little of)

[SorrelZG]

I'm thirty-one and evolution wasn't taught in my public schools. I didn't even encounter it in high school. Somehow I did know about it though and that people differed in their beliefs about the origin of humanity before I had ever heard of homeschooling.

[SailorMom]

OK - first - I'm not saying this to insult anyone or start a debate - it's just for info about where I grew up and the attitudes there...

Growing up in northern CA, in all of my science classes (anything that would have anything remotely to do with evolution or the Big Bang) it was assumed that everyone agreed this was scientific fact - or at least as close to it as we could get at the time.

In high school, in bio and adv. bio, evolution and survival of the fittest were also never questioned. I grew up NOT KNOWING that anyone still believed in literal creation, Young Earth, etc. I thought that was all in the past. If anyone around me believed that, they never mentioned it, but in the local churches of all the denominations I had friends in, this was not an issue. There was no literal creationism at an institutional level at all.

I have to admit to a lot of culture shock in finding out otherwise, lol.

[momma2three]

I don't remember it being taught at all. I remember we had physics in 5th grade, and then I was homeschooled in 6th, and then 7th was biology, and 8th was chemistry. I don't remember any science before 5th grade. I guess it may have come up in 7th grade, but I don't remember it so it mustn't have been stressed.

 

 

But there was definitely nothing religious. I grew up in a very academic household, and one of my parents is a scientist, and lived in areas where the other families were similar to mine. I'd never heard that people still believe in "young earth" until I started reading this board. I would say that the vast majority of people I know would be shocked and appalled to find that out. Most of my Facebook feed thinks that "creationist test" going around is a practical joke.

[dorothythomas]

I wanted to vote for cupcakes and kilts and have no idea why!

 

Anyway, we got Darwin but no Big Bang at all. For whatever that's worth. Grew up in Southern Baptist, USA and now I believe there is only Creationism taught now at my award winning college prep public school.

[LaCEmom]

Nothing, zero, zippo! No dinosaurs, Darwin, no evolution at all. I went to public schools in the bible belt. I do know that there was a chapter on it in our hs biology book, but we were instructed to skip it. I was well aware of it being a controversial topic!

[foxbridgeacademy]

I don't remember grade school very well but I believe it was just basic information. I'm from a town that is of two "minds". We have the University or town schools that are open minded to new ideals, all religions, and non-traditional families. Then there are the more country schools filled with about 1/2 university employees children and the very traditional Pentacostals(this was my family) and Baptists "YE" believers. I do remember that in 7th grade Science class Mr Nicola went in depth about evolution and the big bang, it was like a bright shinning light for me because it made sense. I'm in my late 30's and from Southern Indiana. I never made it to H.S. Biology because my parents pulled my sisters and I out of P.S. to homeschool us.

[AngelaNYC]

I remember early man being taught as part of Social Studies (in public school). Java Man, Peking Man, etc. Maybe 5th or 6th grade? Earth Science in 8th grade (in Catholic school) discussed Earth being millions of years old and how old certain stars are based on their color and brightness.

[Embassy]

I went to a small private Christian school and I don't remember learning anything about evolution until high school. There could have been a little something that I don't remember, but in all likelihood there was nothing.

[Myeightkiddies]

When I went to school in the 70s, it was taught in great detail. We had a study on it, but everything else science related had it mixed in as well. Creationism was never mentioned. I recall that evolution and Darwinism was all over everything science. When I became older I truly understood what theory was. Back then I knew the definition of theory but I certainly accepted everything taught as being fact. The term theory was mentioned once but the rest of the study was taught as fact. Of course, schools will vary. This is just my experience.

[PachiSusan]

Thank you Ladies!!!

 

The answers were about where I thought they would be - that it wasn't much of a topic for grade/middle school, but that it was introduced and a deeper level of understanding came later.

 

I was debating with myself whether or not this is the time for me to go into greater detail with our daughter or not. We have chosen not to continue with Apologia's products and we're discerning what to go with next.

 

This thread and others remind me that this is a topic that is better elucidated at an older age, but that the foundations should be set into place early, which is what we are doing now.

 

My personal belief is that God created the heavens and the earth and everything in it and HOW he did it does not matter to my faith journey. Evolution and Darwin do not threaten me.

 

Since God created us all and created us intelligent beings, I believe we are denying HIM when we deny scientific discovery. Science and the quest for knowledge about our world, ourselves, and how things work is a beautiful breakthtaking ride that takes a life time, and I want to impart that to our daughter right now. Later we will go into the deeper details. It's not necessary at 10 years old. LOL

[Rhonda in TX]

I really don't remember. I'm sure we heard the "millions of years ago" stuff, but other than that, it didn't make much of an impression on me at that age.

[LizzyBee]

I don't remember evolution ever coming up at all in elementary or jr. high. If we covered it at all in high school biology, it must have been very brief. Most of the class was about cell biology. In college, I started as a nursing major, so I took human A&P and microbiology. No discussion of evolution whatsoever in those classes. When I changed to accounting, I didn't have to take any more science classes. I did take one social studies class where the professor liked to refer to evolution as fact and make fun of Christians, but other than that, evolution was pretty much non-existent in my education. I went to public school in Maryland, and then I went to three colleges before finishing, Towson State, Univ of MD, and Univ of Baltimore.

[kitten18]

OK - first - I'm not saying this to insult anyone or start a debate - it's just for info about where I grew up and the attitudes there...

Growing up in northern CA, in all of my science classes (anything that would have anything remotely to do with evolution or the Big Bang) it was assumed that everyone agreed this was scientific fact - or at least as close to it as we could get at the time.

In high school, in bio and adv. bio, evolution and survival of the fittest were also never questioned. I grew up NOT KNOWING that anyone still believed in literal creation, Young Earth, etc. I thought that was all in the past. If anyone around me believed that, they never mentioned it, but in the local churches of all the denominations I had friends in, this was not an issue. There was no literal creationism at an institutional level at all.

I have to admit to a lot of culture shock in finding out otherwise, lol.

I had pretty much the exact same experience and (as I already said up thread), I grew up in a small town in Nebraska. I'm sure it matters a great deal what kind of churches are in your area.

[hsmom2011]

n/m

[Erin]

Something I've noticed is that most of those questions tend to be worded very carefully. "In Chapter 7, how did it say life began?" in order to avoid these issues. ;)

[hsmom2011]

n/m

[PachiSusan]

When the topic comes up, I have a discussion with dd. As she gets older, our talks become more interesting. She's still pretty young (12yrs). I am clear with her that as long as she knows God is the creator, it doesn't matter how she thinks He did it or how long it took. :) It hasn't really come up with my youngest, but she's always in the room when we are talking, so I'm sure she takes in what she can. I never heard of YEC until hsing, so I must have crawled out from under a rock - lol. I was a science major at a Christian college. Evolution was touched on through HS (public) and college (Christian), but not in depth. I never really gave it a great deal of thought myself, the issue was never really important to me.

 

We just had a discussion today over lunch about adaptions over time and then watched a documentary on The Galapagos Island and the possible new species of hybrid Land/Marine Iguana. I don't know exactly when I will teach it as a separate subject, but for now these are the learning moments that we are setting up for her. :)

[Freckles]

I took biology in the 80's in Oklahoma. The day we talked about evolution we had a substitute. I don't even think we talked about it in college, and I have 24 credit hours in science. For what it's worth, I don't mind learning about it, but I've been a YEC since I was a kid. I didn't know that's what it was called growing up. I've always taken Genesis literally. It's not something I worry about too much. It doesn't affect my salvation.

[lailasmum]

Evolution was always part of our education, part of science and history as was big bang theory etc. for that matter. All interwoven. I am an aetheist and raised an atheist in a secular country. I never even realised people believed in creationism until about 4 years ago.

[Forgiven]

I was definitely taught evolution in school. I remember going home all confused and asked my parents a lot of questions, which they could only answer from a Catholic's point of view, which confused me even more. So I prayed and prayed and vowed that I would be able to answer my kids' questions when they asked them. Even before I had kids I was researching between creation and evolution and reading about what all the different sides thought.

 

Looking into evolution hasn't ruined my faith, but reinforced it. I'm more confident about the subject and can answer questions when my kids ask, and boy do they. I tell them what the Bible says and what society says. They can figure out on their own what they believe, just like I did. My parents never refuted evolution--never. It was in my heart that something didn't sound right with it.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I had some minimal exposure, I guess. I know Darwin and Big Bang were mentioned, for example. I'm sure a statement here or there about evolution was made ("trillions of years" or "as animals evolved" or whatever). It didn't bother me in the slightest so no doubt that contributes to my fuzzy memory. But it couldn't have been much as I didn't feel I had tons to learn differently about by learning about creation past "On the first day, God...." (the whole of my learning on the subject prior). Basically, it wasn't a big issue to me.

 

My opinion now: It *does* matter for a few reasons, mostly because creation is one of the main ways we learn about God. However, the majority of learning about creation is about details. We don't stress over the topic in the least. My kids also as they are ready learn more about YE and evolutionary theory because it is helpful to understand other viewpoints. It also allows them to reason on why we believe differently.

[Dmmetler]

I kind of need a breakdown between elementary/middle

 

See, I grew up in Harrisonburg, VA-University town with two main universities, one large state school, one large Mennonite school. Lots of educated people in what is, otherwise, a small farm town. At the time I went through school, there was only one private K-6 school-a tiny Abeka one in a church. Everyone else went through the public schools until 7th grade, when Eastern Mennonite High School started.

 

So, in K-6, it was kind of funny, because in many ways, I almost attended a religious elementary school as far as what was left out. Science and history both started at about the same point-recorded history, not before. No discussion of the Garden of Eden, but no discussion about evolution except a few mentions of adaptation to the environment. We even had the option, a couple of times a week, of walking down the block to a local church for Religious ed-the Catholic kids in one room, the protestant kids in another, and those of us who's parents didn't sign the permission slip got to stay at school and help the teachers/have a study hall (my parents gave us the option. It took one week of WRE for me to ask my parents to opt me out of it-it was boring and I was MUCH happier in the library with a stack of books or hanging student work on the bulletin board and feeding the class hamster-I'm guessing creation was covered there).

 

 

Then, we got to 7th grade, and a majority of the Mennonite kids-plus many of the other conservative Christians-went to EMHS. And it was like "Now we can tell you all the stuff we left out." 7th grade life science included significant discussion of Evolutionary theory and study of physical structures/similarities of animals. 8th grade SSCA (Social Studies/Communication Arts-basically, the advanced/GT/Honors kids got a year of "Read it, research it, present it" -team taught by a history teacher and a drama teacher. Fun class) spent a good half the year on prehistory, and the other half on ancient history, with a strong focus on cultures NOT included in the Bible. Earth Science went heavily into origin theories.

 

By high school it had settled down-but it really did seem like there was a "making up for lost time" effort going on there.

[Job384]

We didn't do much science until we moved into the senior school in seventh grade. Before that, science was an after-thought, and I don't remember evolution coming up. If there was a theme to my junior school science, it was "the earth and the panda bears on it are all doomed because we spill oil on them."

 

That made up much of our science too. There was a lot of what knick-knacks can you build out of garbage so that you don't have to throw it out. (It turned out that you only need one milk container pencil holder. Actually, one might be one more than you need.)

[Lilaclady]

I learnt about evolution in middle school but much like this is what some people think might have happened. It was not really a discussion . This was a public school but religion was very prevalent. I did not know about young earth until we started homeschooling.

[raceNzanesmom]

I'm 49, went to public school in a smallish town in Iowa, was taught evolution as fact. It wasn't until college at a small private college that science class taught evolution as theory. At home I was taught creation and it was assumed the earth was "young". My current church of 12 years was the first place I heard about young earth vs old earth.

[flyingiguana]

We barely did science at all in elementary school, so brief mentions of dinosaurs were about it. (My dad, however, was a science enthusiast, so I learned about all sorts of things in geology and biology and astronomy and meteorology from him.)

 

In middle school, the only science we did was physical science. It was a very good physical science course, with lab and everything (better than the high school chem I later took -- high school science was a big disappointment), but we didn't touch on anything biological.

 

The only real exposure I had to creation vs evolution was in my ancient history class. The teacher there spent all of her time expounding on the truth of the Bible, ignoring everything else. But everyone thought she was just a nut case, so it didn't exactly sink in. It was only in later years that I finally figured out what she was talking about. And that she wasn't such an isolated case.

 

To be fair, we didn't learn much about religion in school either. It would have been nice if I'd had SOME inkling as to what the Reformation was, for example. Any history at all, religious or otherwise, would have been a good thing. Something other than the useless random facts our history teachers managed to come up with.

[Scarlett]

I graduated hs in 83--public school.

 

I have almost zero recollection of evolution being discussed. My mom and my classmates remember us being taught about evolution. I think it is one of those things that just sounded like blah blah blah to me so I blocked it out.

[jar7709]

OE and evolution were assumed in my PS experience, but not gone into any great depth until high school. At the same time, as a sciency kid who was also grapplingwith religion, I did a lot of research on creationism on my own.

[Guest Bill W.]

I'm a Christian as well as a middle school science teacher (18 yrs). I recently taught an evolution unit (required by my state-Indiana) to my 8th graders. I tried, as best I could, to take a "3rd person" approach, and keep my beliefs out of it. So when we talked specifics, it was always in the context of "this is what an evolutionary scientist believes". I stated up front, and all throughout, that my purpose was not to change anyones beliefs, but to teach them factually what "evolution" and "natural selection" are. What they did with that information was completely up to them, and none of my business, because that's geting into values.

 

Do I struggle with teaching evolution and being a Christian? Yes and no. Yes, because it does in some ways conflict with what I believe, and the theory has gaps. No, because I want my students to be well prepared, and it would be unfair to them if I avoided it completely and sent on students who know only 1 thing about evolution- that it's bad. Some day, they will run into a great-sounding argument that will cause a crisis in their faith because they have never really thought about it.