Not underestanding evaluation results or what to do next.

[forevergrace]

I am trying to figure out Weshler WISC-IV, TONI-40, WJ-III, Bender-III results. DH and I went to the school yesterday to meet w/teacher and counselor, I just sat there and felt overwhelmed and sadness for DD-13 yrs. old.

 

Short history of DD: We hs for several years believing she was dyslexic. DD couldn't read, write and had been teased in first grade for being dumb. Using parts of the Well Trained Minds suggesting's, and teaching her sight words in a brail format DD learned. I was consistent, and we had melt downs for almost three years but DD even started to learn Latin. I enrolled her in extra activities at the YMCA, dance, etc., I didn't want her to socially feel out of it, and she also needed to rebuild her self-esteem. Finally the day came when she would fight me ever step of the way, and this was not good for either of us. She wanted to try school, I was terrified.

 

We found a wonderful charter school, that was thirty minutes away (it was a God thing that I found this school). I didn't care about the drive, the school seemed perfect. Her fifth grade teacher was a warm and strong woman, also the vice principal. Her sixth grade teachers were two exceptional men. At the beginning of this year I was told that the owner of the school had misappropriated the monies and cuts of all kinds were going to be made. Many teachers left including both of DD's teachers. There was up to 70 children in two classrooms, they combined the 6th and 7th grades. I knew DD was not learning, to many children, watching movies during class, the whole thing reminded me of a daycare.

 

We pulled DD who was extremely angry with us for taking her away from her friends, and became depressed. We tried to hs again, however, she had become such a social butterfly and was so happy in school that I really felt we were disserving her by keeping her home. I started my long journey of school hunting. One of her teachers that had left her school went to another school nearby. This I thought would be perfect DD would have one of her old teachers, and I felt confident things would be o.k. DD hated the school within weeks and I thought it was due to the lack of education and direction that were being enforced plus she rarely was even with her old teacher. We than tried another school, and I felt like the most terrible parent when friends heard we were yet again moving her around. Again DD had troubles, this time compounded by the fact that she felt like a failure. She just was not getting it. She was failing all subjects, and for the first time was getting in trouble in school. This happened in first grade, the trouble was DD would just zone out, she wouldn't answer questions and was not doing her work. She wasn't disrupting the class, I say this because my oldest DD did disrupt the class. So, this has always struck me as odd about DD and what they labeled as "trouble" I tried to explain to the teacher about DD being dyslexic, and I felt like she dismissed me. I tried to explain DD needed direction, left to her own she would rather do anything then do her work. She looked at me like I was a some cruel mom. She told me that she didn't believe in pushing children to learn, and a few weeks later she told me DD was failing everything. DD now hates school. I began to suspect the school that DD did so well in favored her because she is incredibly kind and sweet with everyone but me. Perhaps, I thought they let her slip by on many things.

 

 

However, I couldn't get how she had made honor roll for over year, her grades were fantastic. How could this drop happen and what could I do??? I requested IEP due to her dyslexia. I felt terrible watching DD drowning in all this, she was being pulled out of class for math, and felt other children knew she was having difficulty. They did and do and this has hurt DD. I was told it would take up to six weeks for the evaluations to come back meanwhile DD needed the help with math. The results came back yesterday, she does not qualify for an IEP, however she is way below in everything. The evaluator noted that she did not understand how DD did so well in the other school when clearly she falls so far below, but missed the standard deviation of 15 in a point in two areas. This whole thing is surreal, as I sat there with DH I thought this can't be right. We have to do something, because at this rate she will not pass next year, or pass the required tests for high school she is barely passing this year. I was informed yesterday that DD will be one of the first groups of children that will be required to pass the standard tests. I am guessing that in prior years you could continue to take the test once you were in high school. I Thank you for listening and sorry this is long.

[Pen]

:grouphug:

 

 

What did the test show?

[RamonaQ]

Is this a public school where you are at now?

 

What does your dd want to do?

 

What is the school suggesting, considering they have informed you that she is failing?

[Pen]

She might be able to have accommodations for dyslexia (if that has been diagnosed?) even though she does not qualify for an IEP.

 

Might she be better off at the Charter with her friends for social time and then afterschool do work on academics?

[RamonaQ]

She might be able to have accommodations for dyslexia (if that has been diagnosed?) even though she does not qualify for an IEP.

 

Might she be better off at the Charter with her friends for social time and then afterschool do work on academics?

 

I am liking the idea of getting her back to the place where her friends are, and then remediating. Perhaps she could do half a day at the school with her friends, and then work on remediating the other half? That way you could develop buy in and respect her need to be with friends. There will be no productive learning if your daughter is angry, depressed and feeling lonely.

 

That said, I would want to understand VERY CLEARLY from the school how far behind she is, what tests she would need to pass for graduation, and I would want the school's help in figuring out a pathway within that environment (just so you know what would be required now and in the future in that environment). I think you may also want to seek an indep. evaluation as this may be able to reveal more areas, or use different tests, that could be helpful to qualify your daughter for an IEP.

 

Finally, I would ask to establish a 504.

[Tiramisu]

I've sometimes wondered if the cut offs for what's technically considered a disorder could be considered arbitrary. Really. You're too high by a percentile or two and then you're fine. ?? That's when an independent eval might be more helpful.

[forevergrace]

Sorry I have not gotten back, I have just been trying to work through all of this. I've contacted several specialist in our area. I've contacted a neuropsychologist who will be able to see DD in June. She also does psychoeducational, psychological evaluation, and has worked with children in public school, non-profit agency and private practice settings. She is board certified and certified as a school psychologist by our state. She spoke on the phone with me for 45 minutes, and agreed that DD's scores did not jive. I also found out that there are two Woodcock-Johnson tests, the one DD had taken (WJ-III) does not go over well for children with dyslexia. The other can be used to examine and work with a child who have dyslexia. I also spoke with educational specialist who can help us learn how to teach dd and work with her after the results. The educational specialist has worked in the past with the neuropsychologist with other students. This is costly, but it is the only way I feel we can actually figure out what to do, and this something we should of done long ago, I just wish I had known I thought we had everything going o.k. We really don't know to what level of dyslexia dd has or it is compounded by other factors. All I know for sure is that if we don't do something we will be sitting here next year with the same issues.

 

The school had said DD has short term memory problems, however I've now found out that there are several categories under short term memory. The psychologist who performed the test was not at our meeting on Monday, and I was told she that she should of been there. I didn't know this at the time, only the school psychologist was there along with her teacher. The school psychologist had difficulty explaining things, and difficulty reading the evaluation. Most days she is out of DD's school by 11 and does not work on Fridays. This is the woman (the school psychologist: SP) that is suppose to be working with all the children that have IEPs in dd's school. While explaining the test results she (SP) kept reiterating how slow, bottom of the line, and very low DD's test scores were, that she really is without her saying it "dumb" but not dumb enough in their eyes to qualify for help. At first I thought this was just my thinking, but after Dh and I had time to digest all this info. we both felt it.

 

Come to find out that there are only two children in 5th, 6th and 7th grade who have IEPs. The SP was pulling DD out of class to work on her math. Originally, both her teacher and the SP wanted to pull DD out of class for her other subjects and dd wanted to stay in class. When I asked the teacher why she would not let DD take the spelling test with her class, she told me that she and SP would do what they thought was best for DD. DH called the school and explained that he wanted his DD to be able to take the spelling tests with her class, and they were pulling her out of classes that had not discussed with us. Afterwards dd was allowed to stay in class for her other subjects, but we both agreed to allow SP to pull her for math. **Remember this all before any testing for an IEP. I started working with DD on her spelling and grammar and, making her memorize her voc. for weekly tests. DD went from straight Fs on eight spelling test to anywhere in the 90s after we started working together. All extra credit words that were not on the list DD would miss.

 

Several weeks ago I started asking DD why she was not getting any math homework, and wrote a brief note to the teacher also asking her. DD told me that she (SP) had not really worked with her in math for three weeks. Along with the fact that the other child who has an IEP had spent several days coloring in class (all day long while other students were learning) because SP was absent and very busy preparing for the school's move.

 

Now remember, this is a high rating charter school on the scale from 1-10 our state gives them a 9. The school that DD did so well at was rated a 5. However, there was much more verbal and visual hands on activities, discussions of current events at dd's old school. The school she is in now is using Saxon math and discussion is kept to a minim as dd's teacher does her lessons. This is not horrible, this is the way I was taught and the way I tried to work with DD. I was so consumed with dd learning how to read and write that I honestly didn't have time in the beginning to do anything else. Later on we were fighting to do work, even our nightly readings went to the side. This type of teaching does not work with her as I am seeing and finding out. I feel really guilty and sad that I didn't realize this earlier. When I hs I did not use Saxon because it was to intense for DD. At the other school DD was doing pre-algebra, and her teacher was tutoring her after school. This school has placed her in Saxon 60 (I think) it is geared to 4-5th grade. She is once again doing decimals and basic fractions. While our standardize tests for high school requires algebra, and this is something DD will be faced with next year.

 

DD stayed home yesterday. Complaining that her stomach hurt, and her class was suppose to be bowling as an extra activity. DD loves bowling, but was said no she was not feeling right. You know I'm watching her body posture (slumped shoulders, head hung slightly down) and I know inside she is not sick, that she feels beaten down. She is listening to the most depressing music and I feel like I've failed her. This is how it was when she first went to school in 1st grade, and they held her back and couldn't figure out what was wrong. I'm seeing it all over again, the once happy girl being sucked dry. I'm keeping her home today.

[momto3boyz]

:grouphug: I wish I had a bunch of answers for you too (thanks for posting on my question) I pray that you will get some answers soon.

It is very difficult to see your child feel beat down.

[RamonaQ]

Can you call another meeting with the psychologist who performed the tests to be present to explain results. If the the scores are as low as the SP is suggesting, then it seems she should qualify for an IEP.

 

Frankly, at this stage in the game, with school coming to an end, I would be less concerned about what is going on in the classroom right now, and more focused on coming up with a plan toward remediation and support...wherever that will be, which it sounds like you will be doing in June.

[PeterPan]

Since she just had an eval, I would get a hold of the psych who did that testing and talk with her. Also, I don't know if you realize this, but you may be misinterpreting what's being told to you by your bias that it's dyslexia. If it's not dyslexia, if it's actually something else, then you're missing the terms they're telling you. For instance you said you were told she has issues with short term memory. Was that *short term* memory or *working* memory? Working memory is a very precise thing, and if she has issues with it, that could explain a lot of the issues you're having.

 

Any psych you call up can say oh yes, come in and get an eval. I wouldn't plunk out for that until you've found out exactly what the first psych found. They should have given you a complete write-up, with all the test scores, all the history, and recommendations. Should be 4-6 pages (or more). If they gave it to you, read it. If they didn't, get it from the psych.

[forevergrace]

The psychologist who performed the evaluation was not even present during our meeting. I also spoke w/dd's old teacher who was really surprised that the psychologist was not there. She has worked with her for other children that were tested and told me that the psychologist was always present at the parent meetings(she knows this psychologist personally). Her concern being that dd's school was not paying her. I'm not sure how charter schools work with payments for special educations. I do know it would of been different if dd had been tested in a public school. I was not even aware of all the subcategories in memory, or what nonverbal learning disabilities were. I also know that I have been worried about our beliefs that dd's problem were only related to just dyslexia. The neuropsychologist has worked with the public school system for twenty years, her specialty is working with children, and I feel that we need to find out everything. DD also told me she was done the evaluation at school in two-hours, she didn't wear her glasses, and given the depression she has been experiencing I'm not sure we can count on anything. Budget cuts are rapid in our state, and many children are going to feel the outcome. We rank 49th---bottom of the barrel for education and mental health. I thank God that we can manage the payments, and that I can stay at home with dd, because I am really aware of so many that can't. Whatever it takes we have to do it, and I really feel fearful, worried, frustrated, and sad, but I have to believe God will provide the way even when I can't see it. I say this to remind me, not to preach. DD and I went to have coffee w/a friend and her daughter last night, it was the first time dd has laughed in so long. I realized how stressed we have all been, and how much I wanted everything to be o.k. I just have to stop and breathe, because I can run with this nonstop in my head. Thanks for listening!:)

[Pen]

...

The school had said DD has short term memory problems, however I've now found out that there are several categories under short term memory. The psychologist who performed the test was not at our meeting on Monday, and I was told she that she should of been there. I didn't know this at the time, only the school psychologist was there along with her teacher. The school psychologist had difficulty explaining things, and difficulty reading the evaluation. Most days she is out of DD's school by 11 and does not work on Fridays. This is the woman (the school psychologist: SP) that is suppose to be working with all the children that have IEPs in dd's school. While explaining the test results she (SP) kept reiterating how slow, bottom of the line, and very low DD's test scores were, that she really is without her saying it "dumb" but not dumb enough in their eyes to qualify for help. At first I thought this was just my thinking, but after Dh and I had time to digest all this info. we both felt it.

 

You need a copy of the results to be able to read them and show them to another evaluator. Possibly you need to be able to call the psychologist who did the test to ask questions, if you can get that. Legally, you should be able to get the copy of the report.

 

Come to find out that there are only two children in 5th, 6th and 7th grade who have IEPs. The SP was pulling DD out of class to work on her math. Originally, both her teacher and the SP wanted to pull DD out of class for her other subjects and dd wanted to stay in class. When I asked the teacher why she would not let DD take the spelling test with her class, she told me that she and SP would do what they thought was best for DD. DH called the school and explained that he wanted his DD to be able to take the spelling tests with her class, and they were pulling her out of classes that had not discussed with us. Afterwards dd was allowed to stay in class for her other subjects, but we both agreed to allow SP to pull her for math. **Remember this all before any testing for an IEP. I started working with DD on her spelling and grammar and, making her memorize her voc. for weekly tests. DD went from straight Fs on eight spelling test to anywhere in the 90s after we started working together. All extra credit words that were not on the list DD would miss.

 

This to me seems typical.

 

Several weeks ago I started asking DD why she was not getting any math homework, and wrote a brief note to the teacher also asking her. DD told me that she (SP) had not really worked with her in math for three weeks. Along with the fact that the other child who has an IEP had spent several days coloring in class (all day long while other students were learning) because SP was absent and very busy preparing for the school's move.

 

This is unfortunately typical as well. Many parents assume that a lot is going on in school when it is not. It is why many choose to homeschool.

 

Now remember, this is a high rating charter school on the scale from 1-10 our state gives them a 9. The school that DD did so well at was rated a 5.

 

What are the ratings based on?

 

 

However, there was much more verbal and visual hands on activities, discussions of current events at dd's old school. The school she is in now is using Saxon math

 

Would not be my choice of math program for an LD child.

 

and discussion is kept to a minim as dd's teacher does her lessons. This is not horrible, this is the way I was taught and the way I tried to work with DD. I was so consumed with dd learning how to read and write that I honestly didn't have time in the beginning to do anything else. Later on we were fighting to do work, even our nightly readings went to the side. This type of teaching does not work with her as I am seeing and finding out. I feel really guilty and sad that I didn't realize this earlier. When I hs I did not use Saxon because it was to intense for DD. At the other school DD was doing pre-algebra, and her teacher was tutoring her after school. This school has placed her in Saxon 60 (I think) it is geared to 4-5th grade. She is once again doing decimals and basic fractions. While our standardize tests for high school requires algebra, and this is something DD will be faced with next year.

 

Does she know decimals and fractions?

 

DD stayed home yesterday. Complaining that her stomach hurt, and her class was suppose to be bowling as an extra activity. DD loves bowling, but was said no she was not feeling right. You know I'm watching her body posture (slumped shoulders, head hung slightly down) and I know inside she is not sick, that she feels beaten down. She is listening to the most depressing music and I feel like I've failed her. This is how it was when she first went to school in 1st grade, and they held her back and couldn't figure out what was wrong. I'm seeing it all over again, the once happy girl being sucked dry. I'm keeping her home today.

 

 

So, what does she want to do?

[Heathermomster]

Just wanted to give you a hug...

 

Educate yourself. Look at The Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides and Overcoming Dyslexia by Shaywitz. For math, read the book How the Brain Learns Mathematics by Sousa.

 

A NP evaluation will likely benefit you. Consider giving her a learning styles test to help you select appropriate homeschool materials. Blessings, h

[Alessandra]

Since she just had an eval, I would get a hold of the psych who did that testing and talk with her. Also, I don't know if you realize this, but you may be misinterpreting what's being told to you by your bias that it's dyslexia. If it's not dyslexia, if it's actually something else, then you're missing the terms they're telling you. For instance you said you were told she has issues with short term memory. Was that *short term* memory or *working* memory? Working memory is a very precise thing, and if she has issues with it, that could explain a lot of the issues you're having.

 

Any psych you call up can say oh yes, come in and get an eval. I wouldn't plunk out for that until you've found out exactly what the first psych found. They should have given you a complete write-up, with all the test scores, all the history, and recommendations. Should be 4-6 pages (or more). If they gave it to you, read it. If they didn't, get it from the psych.

 

:iagree:

 

If this was an initial IEP/eligibility meeting, the psychologist who did the test should have been there. Did you sign a waiver that s/he could miss the meeting? You should have received: a copy of the meeting notice, a copy of the signatory (attendance sign-in) sheet, and a full evaluation report with with standard scores, percentiles, etc for all tests and subtests, plus an interpretive section (long, not short). You have a right to request a new IEP meeting with the psychologist present.

[PeterPan]

I was not even aware of all the subcategories in memory, or what nonverbal learning disabilities were.

 

So are you saying they mentioned a non-verbal learning disorder when they were talking with you? That's an actual diagnosis, NVLD. You might reread what they gave you. Glad you're going to be able to get some time with a psych to get this sorted out.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

You will have to figure out the best timing for them, but I would also give some assessments so you can figure out where she is and what you need to focus on to get her up to speed. It may be easier to remediate once you figure out what the underlying problem is, but you may want to do the assessments now and maybe try some remediation and see how it goes.

 

I like the lets go learn assessments, I have done both those and the Iowa Test of Basic Skills. The K-7 ADAM math assessment is linked to Khan Academy videos so you can easily and cheaply test and do some remediation. I also like their DORA test for Language Arts. And, I have free reading grade level tests and reading diagnostic tests on my testing page.

 

http://www.letsgolearn.com/

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html