Barton or Spalding? for language based dyslexia with vision problems

[MyLittleBears]

So we are finally doing vision therapy for my 9yr old. The report from the developmental optometrist did confirm he has significantly reduced convergence skills, and inadequate skill of accommodation for his age level

BUT the results also say ....

 

"the results of the vertical number naming portions of the DEM, the TOSWRF, Visagraph, and DDT suggest that a specific reading disability may be more of a core, language-based factor"

 

So it turns out the poor kid has a double whammy.

 

Okay, so where do we go from here?

 

I am panicking a little because he will be in 4th next year and his results show a reading age of 6.9 or 1.2 grade level. He is in the 1st percentile for his age level on the DEM and 6.4 age level on the Jordan Reversals Test. I thought he was at at least a 2nd grade reading level and was hoping the vision therapy was the magic cure.

 

Does he need specific dyslexia intervention like Barton or would Spalding be sufficient?

 

I think I am comfortable enough to implement Spalding but I don't want to waste my time if he really needs a dyslexia specific intervention

 

Any suggestions?

[Χά�ων]

He probaly will need some sort of intervention. I have heard Barton is the best. My DS is not ready for Barton yet and is still working on skills to get ready to learn to read so I am not yet able to say for sure.

[ElizabethB]

I have had several children do well after vision therapy working through my phonics lessons and the things on my how to tutor page. If they will work, they should start working quickly. But, you do need to wait until the vision therapy is finished. You can do some oral spelling and focus on phonograms and spelling rules while the vision therapy is being done. You should know in a month or two, I usually get my students up to grade level within a few months.

[merry gardens]

I would suggest that even if you start with the Barton tutor screen, followed by the student screen. If your child can't pass the screen, then you can look into it and decide from there what to do when you know that information. http://bartonreading.com/students_long.html

 

The first level of Barton doesn't even start with "reading" per se, but with phonemic awareness using colored tiles, not letters. If it's not too overwhelming to your child having multiple therapies, you could do Barton level 1 at the same time your child is doing vision therapy. When the student gets to reading letters, the letter tiles are big enough for most, and the print on the pages is large, the student sheets are on blue paper (which is easier for some), and the words are first isolated for the student to read before they are put with other words--so even if he's not finished with vt, it might work out fine.

 

I don't know much about Spalding, and I don't know you or your child. But I am very happy with Barton, and the online student screening is free, so that's where I'd suggest you start.

[MyLittleBears]

Thanks!

He did pass the screening so I think I will start with level one, even though he is plodding through AAS. He know rules but does not apply them or applies them inappropriately. I think he has phonemic awareness but he still has a hard time segmenting the sounds (after 4yrs of trying), so hopefully level 1 will start the foundation and we can build up from that. I've been reading a lot over the past few days and I think what swaying me is that Barton is a true O-G program. I'm not so sure about Spalding but I do believe that it may work well for students with mild dyslexia or dyslexic tendencies. My boy is pretty severely dyslexic. I think he *needs* the work with nonsense words and less memorization of spelling rules up front.

 

I did contact Barton today. They sent me a report on vision therapy that was less than confidence inspiring. I believe the jist was that it will not work to cure dyslexia, which I understand, but it also seemed to be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". I was expecting to see a reiteration of what the Dr.Eides' say about vision therapy. :confused1:

[Lecka]

I think it would be good to read up on the Barton website and maybe read the book Overcoming Dyslexia.

 

My impression is ---- the tests the eye doctor did, show that the reading level is not totally explained by the vision situation. B/c, if his eye level is 2 years behind, but his reading level is 3 years behind (randomly throwing out numbers) then you would suspect there is something more going on.

 

But unless those tests are specifically with phonemic awareness, decoding skills, trying to read nonsense words, or things like that, then I think it sounds like it is a thing where it is a supposition instead of a definite thing shown by things he did. But if it is a definite thing shown by things he did -- great.

 

That is me just guessing, though.

 

But I think just finding out about potential language-based dyslexia is a good first step. I think that is the first step before choosing a curriculum. I think it is okay to take a little time to look into it.

 

I think you can also ask the eye doctor (or maybe he has told you) if the tests positively identify the language-based dyslexia (or that suspicion), or if it just from process of elimination or possibility. I am thinking that way b/c someone I know was just thrown into a tizzy b/c a doctor threw out a possible thing that was not from that doctor's area of expertise and it turned out to be appropriate to look into but not what was going on. So currently I am paranoid.

 

If you look into Barton and Overcoming Dyslexia and it sounds like it is a fit, personally I would say to look at Barton.

 

There are two books at my library by Susan Hall and Lousia Moats about reading, that I have found helpful. Those and Overcoming Dyslexia are my top picks for helpful library books. :)

[Lecka]

/crosspost If he has trouble segmenting I think Barton would be great for him.

 

Honestly, I would try not to get hurt feelings over the different ideology on vision therapy. It is just not helpful I think. It is a distraction, though.

 

I am pretty sure her view is the same as the Dyslexia Association.... the Eides are particularly progressive on vision. (What I mean is, she is not the outlier, the Eides are the outliers, not to say either is good or bad, just that Barton not advocating vision therapy does not make Barton particularly harsh or one-sided ---- that is the majority view held by many people.)

 

Anyway parents have to do what they think is best, as the bottom line. Tough to make decisions when there are differing expert views ---- but it is okay, too.

 

Totally frustrating, though, especially if what is helping your child is the pooh-poohed thing!

[MyLittleBears]

Thanks Lecka. I guess part of my issue is that it took me so long to figure out if I thought vision therapy was legit. Our pediatric opthamologist told me to save my money. I believed her at the time, partly because she dealt so well with my little guys amblyopia. It was not until I read Dyslexic Advantage and Mislabled child that I really thought it was something to look into. Now I had MDs that specialize in dyslexia and have a dyslexia clinic telling me this was a true problem with a true solution. I guess the articles from Barton derailed me for a second, or at least, made me feel like I was standing on shaking ground again, but I'm over it!

[wapiti]

FWIW, there was a segment on our local news last night about VT. After the part about the optometrist, they interviewed a ped opthamologist who agreed that VT can help convergence insufficiency though she disputed the evidence for other conditions.

 

Do you already have an official dyslexia diagnosis? If not, at some point, you may want to explore the dyslexia angle further. You might wait until after VT is finished to see a psych/neuropsych (at your dyslexia clinic?) for further evaluation for dyslexia, as vision issues can mess with the IQ test results that are typically part of a workup for LDs. However, there might be language tests you could do before that (e.g., our SLP administered the CTOPP though I do not know whether that test is entirely oral). I'd want to know officially for a number of reasons (e.g. whether accommodations may be available/helpful down the road).

[merry gardens]

Thanks!

He did pass the screening so I think I will start with level one, even though he is plodding through AAS. He know rules but does not apply them or applies them inappropriately. I think he has phonemic awareness but he still has a hard time segmenting the sounds (after 4yrs of trying), so hopefully level 1 will start the foundation and we can build up from that. I've been reading a lot over the past few days and I think what swaying me is that Barton is a true O-G program. I'm not so sure about Spalding but I do believe that it may work well for students with mild dyslexia or dyslexic tendencies. My boy is pretty severely dyslexic. I think he *needs* the work with nonsense words and less memorization of spelling rules up front.

 

I did contact Barton today. They sent me a report on vision therapy that was less than confidence inspiring. I believe the jist was that it will not work to cure dyslexia, which I understand, but it also seemed to be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". I was expecting to see a reiteration of what the Dr.Eides' say about vision therapy. :confused1:

 

Be aware that the first level of Barton is very small, so when you first open the box it might not look like much. Yet these are critical skills that come natural to most people, but are frequently lacking in a person with dyslexia. For some, it can take a month or longer to get through the material and recognize the sounds in words--but my non-dyslexic child or some might go through it very quickly. A child with severe dyslexia will probably take longer. Subsequent levels of Barton will be much larger, but level 1 and 2 are short.

 

I realize that Susan Barton isn't a fan of VT. I also had my doubts about it, and when I finally did take my son to a covd, my experience with the first one we saw didn't help my opinion of it. :glare: I ended up going for a second opinion and found a covd who recognized that my son had both vision problems and dyslexia, instead of blaming all his reading problems on his eyes like the first covd did. My son completed vt last year with the second covd and staff that was supportive and wonderful. We're still working on Barton, but he reads (decodes/comprehends) at grade level now. His reading endurance improved after vt, so he can read longer but he still reads slowly.

[MyLittleBears]

Thanks for the heads up. I guess that is why there is a price difference with the first two levels.

 

Yeah, I like that our COVD did no claim to cure dyslexia, only that it could help his convergence and focusing. His left eye tends to drift out when bringing something close and his double vision starts further out than normal. It actually starts from where you would normally hold the book up to your face to read, poor kid. It is really obvious that something is going on with his eyes, apart from the dyslexia.

One thing though, the therapy is done by a "vision therapist". I was under the impression that the doctor did it. It this the way it's done?

[merry gardens]

...

One thing though, the therapy is done by a "vision therapist". I was under the impression that the doctor did it. It this the way it's done?

I don't know about the exact job title of the staff, but had someone other than the covd working with my ds too.

Our experience at two different clinics was that a member of the doctor's staff worked most directly with the child, while the covd oversaw the work. At the second clinic, (the one we used) the covd did all the testing and got frequent updates to guide the therapy. Both the staff person we worked with and the covd knew my son.

 

At the first clinic, the covd didn't even do most of the testing, but even delegated much of the testing to staff! That was a huge problem! The doctor didn't even catch any vision problems on the initial screen, but after hearing me tell of the reading problems, recommended further testing. And that was the last we saw of the doctor. The report that we finally after a very long wait, demonstrated that the doctor clearly didn't remember my son or anything I'd told about him-- and hadn't even bothered to read his medical history, including speech therapy dx of phonemic awareness problems and extensive O-G remediation before saying the reading problem was his eyes. :tongue_smilie: And it was a different staff person, not the covd, who hadn't even met my son who initially tried to answer all my questions once we got back that faulty report.

 

Yet, I've read stories on here about people who had the covd do all the clinic therapy work with their child. The quality of service and how much the covd works directly with clients can vary dramatically.

 

If you have doubts about the quality of the "vision therapist" and amount of time the covd works with your child, ask questions! Get a second opinion from another clinic if you're not satisfied. I am so very, very, very glad we got a second opinion. My son finished therapy in just a few months last year at the second clinic, but I suspect the first clinic might still be milking us for money if I had just trusted what they told me without seeking a second opinion.

[MyLittleBears]

Thank you Merry for all the info and advice. Ds went to VT this morning and I can safely say that she knows what she is doing. She actually came out and to talk to me and make sure I knew what I was doing at home with him. She also told me that he has shown some improvement in just the 2wks. I thought I had noticed that he had, so it was good to hear it confirmed. Also, the doctor did do the testing, so I'm pretty satisfied. :)