Does anyone else's children take 3-4 HOURS to do Saxon math???

[chocoholic]

I'm growing weary of my 12-yo & 10-yo taking hours and hours to complete their Saxon math each day. It usually takes a LOT of prodding & riding and 3-4 hours for my daughter to complete a lesson.

 

It is driving me nuts. She's on lesson 101 of book 7/6. This is our first year doing Saxon.

 

My 10-yo son, he is more mathy than my dd, but he has trouble focusing and it can easily take him 2-3 hours to complete a lesson.

 

It makes the entire school day drag on.

[JudoMom]

Lessons take 45-90 minutes here, if they stay on task.

[Mandy in TN]

Uh no just no

 

Are they working at an appropriate skill level? If so, then I would break up the Saxon lesson into several sittings. Have them do their timed drill first thing in the morning. Later, after other morning stuff, do the mental section, problem solving, and the concept introduction with them. Actively do the material yourself and compare answers with each other. Finally, in a third sitting have them work through the mixed problem set. Look through the problem set and any answers that you know they can tell you orally have them do so. Circle the rest of the problems and let them complete these independently.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Monarch Room]

Say whaaaattt? I would literally die of impatience if my kid took that long to do math. We used to do math first thing in the morning, and my oldest (10 y/o) used to majorly dawdle. It drove me kind of nuts. He never took hours to complete his math, but he took longer than I wanted him to take. When I moved it to the end of the day he magically started getting it done in a reasonable amount of time. He didn't want to waste his free time on math :)

[Ellie]

Uh no just no

 

Are they working at an appropriate skill level? If so, then I would break up the Saxon lesson into several sittings. Have them do their timed drill first thing in the morning. Later, after other morning stuff, do the mental section, problem solving, and the concept introduction with them. Actively do the material yourself and compare answers with each other. Finally, in a third sitting have them work through the mixed problem set. Look through the problem set and any answers that you know they can tell you orally have them do so. Circle the rest of the problems and let them complete these independently.

 

HTH-

Mandy

 

:iagree:

 

Or if that's still too much math-time, go over the lesson with them, do the first few problems together, then set a timer for, oh, 30 or 45 minutes and let them work independently. Whatever they finish in that amount of time is whatever they finish. The next day they'll pick up where they left off. Many folks have reported that when they gave their dc a finite amount of time to work, the dc were able to finish the lesson. Dunno why it works, but it does.

 

Under no circumstances would I allow children to work for 3-4 hours on math. I'm sure that's terribly frustrating for everyone, and it doesn't solve anything (you should forgive the pun, lol).

[PollyOR]

And that is why we switched to Rod & Staff and started doing some of the assignments orally.

[SilverMoon]

Regardless which math book you're using, something simply isn't working. It sounds like this is just you and the kids adjusting to homeschooling and learning the ropes, rather than a problem with Saxon itself. :001_smile: Curriculum hopping most likely won't solve the problem.You need to tweak the way you're doing the lessons and get that time down. You've already received some ideas for that. I wanted to add that they may not be ready to work independently on this, and I'd keep them at your elbow while they work. Sitting at their dining table at home is very different from sitting in a room with many students all doing the same thing, and they don't have as many built in "stay on task" reminders anymore.

 

To actually answer the question I only had one kid use Saxon for a season. She averaged 2 lessons in an 1.25 hours or so.

[twoxcell]

We don't use Saxon but my kids have never spent that long on any one subject.

[ondreeuh]

Regardless which math book you're using, something simply isn't working. It sounds like this is just you and the kids adjusting to homeschooling and learning the ropes, rather than a problem with Saxon itself. :001_smile: Curriculum hopping most likely won't solve the problem.

 

 

Her signature says she's been homeschooling 7 years, and this is her first year with Saxon. I wouldn't stick with Saxon if math was going like that.

[chocoholic]

It sounds like this is just you and the kids adjusting to homeschooling and learning the ropes, rather than a problem with Saxon itself.

:001_smile:

 

 

This is funny - we have been homeschooling for 7 years now. (They've never been in a classroom!) I love the results I am seeing with Saxon this year. My kids did MUCH better on the Stanford tests this year as a result of working hard with Saxon. But, they take so LONG to do it.

[SilverMoon]

Her signature says she's been homeschooling 7 years, and this is her first year with Saxon. I wouldn't stick with Saxon if math was going like that.

 

Doh! I saw first year with Saxon and assumed. Oops. :tongue_smilie:

 

I'd try still changing methods rather than potentially throwing the baby out with the bathwater. :001_smile: I haven't used Saxon much, but I have made my fair share of successful and unsuccessful curriculum jumps. Saxon does work well for many, many homeschoolers and it's worth a decent try.

[Ravin]

We've just recently started Saxon, but I generally don't give DD the entire mixed problem set, at least for problem types she's not having difficulty with . We don't start the practice problems until I think she's starting to get it on the examples, though, so sometimes I'll go over an example more than once. I also skip teaching lessons/concepts I know she knows, as we're ahead of Saxon with our Life of Fred reading.

 

I try to keep the together part of a lesson under an hour, and if DD has trouble finishing her work because of difficulty at some point, I'll slow our pace to lessons every other day to give her more time to finish her mixed problem sets.

[hsmom10]

We started Saxon last fall- I have a 3rd and 5th grader- a lesson has never taken that long. It is usually an hour tops. My 5th grader sometimes takes a little longer than that, but on average they are always done in an hour. I agree that if it is taking 3-4 hours, something is not working.

[JudoMom]

This is funny - we have been homeschooling for 7 years now. (They've never been in a classroom!) I love the results I am seeing with Saxon this year. My kids did MUCH better on the Stanford tests this year as a result of working hard with Saxon. But, they take so LONG to do it.

 

 

It's frustrating when it takes that long. We've had patches when it took that long, but it's usually because they sat there doing everything BUT math.

 

Are they actually working on math that whole time? Or are they doing everything else they can think of (including, but not limited to: going to the bathroom, staring at the ceiling, sharpening their pencil, dropping their pencil, petting the dog, watching a fly, falling off their chair, etc.) during that time? The Saxon 7/6 book tended to take the longest for lessons so far--they could take 90 minutes of mostly being on task.

 

I've done the timer thing, and it worked. At one point, my oldest was taking 2+hours to do the fact sheets (I had lots of littles and was brain-fried and sitting next to him to keep him on task was next to impossible). So I told him if he finished he fact sheet in five minutes, he wouldn't have to do them for 2 weeks. He finished in under 2 minutes. I wanted hang him by his toenails LOL! We'd butted head over those sheets so many times; he was simply bored and feeling like math. would. never. end, so why bother working. When he had incentive, it helped.

 

All my boys work harder if I'm in the room, even if I'm not sitting with them. With some, I have to keep reminding them to work, but with others my presence is enough to keep them on task.

[PachiSusan]

Don't scare the rising Saxon 5/4 Mom for next year!!!!! We've never taken over 45 minutes for ANY math lesson since we started home schooling! EEK

[JudoMom]

Don't scare the rising Saxon 5/4 Mom for next year!!!!! We've never taken over 45 minutes for ANY math lesson since we started home schooling! EEK

 

Don't be afraid! You can split the lessons up into multiple parts (fact sheet, mental math, lesson practice, mixed practice) so it doesn't seem as long. If you're working 1:1, I'm sure you can find ways to speed it up :thumbup:. And my guys were able to do most 5/4 lessons in 45 minutes or less (and that was without me at their elbow a lot of times).

[PachiSusan]

 

Don't be afraid! You can split the lessons up into multiple parts (fact sheet, mental math, lesson practice, mixed practice) so it doesn't seem as long. If you're working 1:1, I'm sure you can find ways to speed it up :thumbup:. And my guys were able to do most 5/4 lessons in 45 minutes or less (and that was without me at their elbow a lot of times).

 

Breathing a little easier. Math has always been the bane of our home schooling experience except 1st grade... :willy_nilly:

[AmyontheFarm]

This week I shook things up a bit and had them orally tell me the Mental math answers, then we went to spelling, then came back for reading the lesson and doing the lesson practise. I put a timer on and gave them 30 mins to get as far as they could. Both were done under 15 mins. Then we moved to history. When we came back to math I gave them another 30 mins and they were done. I was slightly shocked and annoyed because I wasn't ready for them yet! LOL

 

Feel free to break up the different parts of the lesson so they can do other subjects in between.

[Hunter]

#1 make sure the student is placed correctly. Saxon is MEANT to be EASY. The mixed problem sets are REVIEWS and the student should be fast and accurate with those problems. All too often people place students too high in Saxon. First they complain the series is too easy, but then complain it takes too long. :huh: It's true that INITIALLY a student can switch to another curriculum and work harder problems more quickly, but a year or two later, students are often behind where they would be, if they stuck with Saxon. The review of easy problems WORKS.

 

#2 the best way to see if a student is dawdling or placed too high, is to place a pile of small candies on the table. Sit with your student and race them problem by problem for the correct answer. Winner gets a piece of candy and sits and eats it in front of the loser who doesn't get one. Problem sets with my 10 year old went from 6 hours to 45 minutes, the first day we used Skittles. I eventually weaned him off of the Skittles once he learned how to FOCUS on one problem at a time, and not get overwhelmed by looking at the entire set. Sometimes I would save a few of the longest problems for later.

 

Other times, my boys needed more review. I would back up 10 lessons or so, and let them coast a bit, until speed picked back up.

 

In my experience, the students that are slowest in Saxon are the ones who need it most, and in the LONG run will be better off sticking with the program, even if it means moving to "below grade level" books. Junior colleges are FULL of students who have to start remedial math at addition. If a student can get through Algebra 1/2, they will be ahead of MOST Freshman, and at least will be taking remedial Algebra instead of starting with a review of addition. Saxon Algebra 1 and 2 were originally written by a junior college remedial math teacher, before he expanded the series for younger students.

 

Saxon isn't the best series to use with tutoring students with limited butt-in-chair time that is broken up by long breaks, but I'm a big fan of Saxon as a homeschool curriculum for first generation homeschoolers. Parents with STEM careers and more resources can sometimes do something "better", but in GENERAL for FIRST generation families, Saxon is an awesome resource that shouldn't be dropped at the first sign of a struggle. It's certainly not the ONLY way to do math, but it's a very very good one. And I prefer the older books to the newer ones.

[AK_Mom4]

OK - I will say it. Lessons 100-120 in the Saxon upper level books get a little wonky. I admit I have only seen 6/5 thru Alg 2, but the lessons don't seem to have the smooth flow that is in the early part of the book - one topic building on the next. It seems to me like they get to the end and say "let's throw in all the weird stuff here because it didn't fit anywhere else". I have worked thru these upper Saxon books twice now and what that meant for us was that I had to step in and make sure they were really READING the lessons - not just jumping into the practice sets without looking.

 

If this Saxon-at-Snail-Speed thing has been going on for a while, then I echo the others - break the lessons up into separate time blocks - 15/20 minutes at a time with other activities in between. We used to break it up in 7/6 as WarmUp-NewConcept-LessonPractice, take a break, Mixed Practice 1-15, another break, then Mixed Practice 16-30. Each section was about 20-25 minutes normally.

[amyrjoy]

We've taken an hour and half occasionally. Today she just could not get the problems so it took a good two hours. And that, for me, was just tooooo long. Ugh!

[2queens&1princenmyhouse]

DD10 will take 2-3 hours if left to her own devices. To speed the process along, I've started doing the writing and now we are down to completing the lesson practice & mixed practice in 20 minutes.

[PachiSusan]

#1 make sure the student is placed correctly. Saxon is MEANT to be EASY. The mixed problem sets are REVIEWS and the student should be fast and accurate with those problems. All too often people place students too high in Saxon. First they complain the series is too easy, but then complain it takes too long. :huh: It's true that INITIALLY a student can switch to another curriculum and work harder problems more quickly, but a year or two later, students are often behind where they would be, if they stuck with Saxon. The review of easy problems WORKS.

 

#2 the best way to see if a student is dawdling or placed too high, is to place a pile of small candies on the table. Sit with your student and race them problem by problem for the correct answer. Winner gets a piece of candy and sits and eats it in front of the loser who doesn't get one. Problem sets with my 10 year old went from 6 hours to 45 minutes, the first day we used Skittles. I eventually weaned him off of the Skittles once he learned how to FOCUS on one problem at a time, and not get overwhelmed by looking at the entire set. Sometimes I would save a few of the longest problems for later.

 

Other times, my boys needed more review. I would back up 10 lessons or so, and let them coast a bit, until speed picked back up.

 

In my experience, the students that are slowest in Saxon are the ones who need it most, and in the LONG run will be better off sticking with the program, even if it means moving to "below grade level" books. Junior colleges are FULL of students who have to start remedial math at addition. If a student can get through Algebra 1/2, they will be ahead of MOST Freshman, and at least will be taking remedial Algebra instead of starting with a review of addition. Saxon Algebra 1 and 2 were originally written by a junior college remedial math teacher, before he expanded the series for younger students.

 

Saxon isn't the best series to use with tutoring students with limited butt-in-chair time that is broken up by long breaks, but I'm a big fan of Saxon as a homeschool curriculum for first generation homeschoolers. Parents with STEM careers and more resources can sometimes do something "better", but in GENERAL for FIRST generation families, Saxon is an awesome resource that shouldn't be dropped at the first sign of a struggle. It's certainly not the ONLY way to do math, but it's a very very good one. And I prefer the older books to the newer ones.

 

 

I LOVE YOU HUNTER!!!!! Thank you so much for this. I know we're doing the right thing having her do 5/4 in 5th grade where everyone else seems to be in 6/5...but she needs it and she's gotta build confidence, which I think this will do.

 

We are using the second edition - not the newest ones. I have to find out if I have to buy the solutions manual. I forgot about that until this second! LOL

[RootAnn]

I check the clock for my older two because if they go over a certain amount of time (45 min this year for dd#2 & 60 min for dd#1), their output in math dribbles.

If it doesn't get done in that period of time & they are working steadily, that's where they start the next day. (If they've been dawdling, they have to 'make up' the time later in the day on their own as "homework.")

[chocoholic]

Thanks, all. Very encouraging. My kids are dwaddling. It's making our school days way too long & tedious. I'm going to have to sit with each one at different parts of the day to keep them on task. I do love Saxon and I'm sticking with it. But it's driving me nuts that they start with it first thing in the morning and they finish it right before lunch!!!! Torture!!!!!

[khall]

I'm growing weary of my 12-yo & 10-yo taking hours and hours to complete their Saxon math each day. It usually takes a LOT of prodding & riding and 3-4 hours for my daughter to complete a lesson.

 

It is driving me nuts. She's on lesson 101 of book 7/6. This is our first year doing Saxon.

 

My 10-yo son, he is more mathy than my dd, but he has trouble focusing and it can easily take him 2-3 hours to complete a lesson.

 

It makes the entire school day drag on.

 

 

Wow, I can't imagine my kids doing math for that long! Did you do the placement tests to make sure you were putting them in the correct level? If they are placed too high, it could be torture trying to figure out all those different types of problems.

 

Here's a breakdown of what we do, so you can see where our time goes. Maybe you can see what piece of the lesson is taking so long? Are they getting bogged down in a particular spot? Is it learning the lesson that is taking forever, or is it the review set?

 

DS12 (did lesson 85 in 7/6 today):

orally do mental math - 5 minutes

lesson- he reads it to himself and then I clarify/teach if he needs help, or he watches the Art Reed DVD - between 5 and 15 minutes

lesson practice - usually 5-10 minutes

review problems - he does this later as "homework", usually after dinner - 30-40 minutes

total: about 45-75 minutes, split into 2 chunks

 

DD10 (did lesson 75 in Intermediate 3 today. Started the year in 5/4 and it got too hard around lesson 60. We backed up an entire book and she's doing great!)

orally do mental math - 10 minutes

lesson - I teach the lesson to her - 10 minutes

lesson practice with me - 5 minutes

review problems for homework - less than 30 minutes (Intermediate 3 only has 20 problems in the review set)

total: less than an hour, split in 2 sessions

 

They both like math, think it's easy, and are very confident in their ability to do it. We don't do the facts practice, but that wouldn't add a whole lot of time.

[Hunter]

I LOVE YOU HUNTER!!!!! Thank you so much for this. I know we're doing the right thing having her do 5/4 in 5th grade where everyone else seems to be in 6/5...but she needs it and she's gotta build confidence, which I think this will do.

 

We are using the second edition - not the newest ones. I have to find out if I have to buy the solutions manual. I forgot about that until this second! LOL

 

 

:blushing:

 

I haven't needed solution manuals until part way through the high school books, and to be truthful, I don't think I would have needed them at all if I hadn't tried to take shortcuts.

 

I don't know about the newer editions, but with the older editions, if a mom works ahead of the student or sits EVERY day and READS the books with the student, and completes ALL the problems, both mom and the student will be so fast and accurate with the lessons, they will not need a solutions manual or any CD support.

 

Saxon is the turtle approach, like in Aesops's Fable. Slow and steady wins the day.

 

Susan, from everything you have shared with me, I strongly recommend using 54 with your daughter next year and NOT 65. If you need a solutions manual, it means YOU need to be completing EVERY problem of EVERY lesson along with your daughter. At some point it's going to come down to needing to do that. It's really not that bad, and in fact it's kind of soothing, like sharing puzzle time every day with your child. Don't rush through the reading; use it as a reading comprehension lesson.

[happypamama]

Try Amazon for the solutions manuals. I use them to save myself time; I just don't have time to work every problem.

 

And yes, 3-4 hours is a long time. If they're placed correctly, I would suspect serious dawdling, in which case you may need some sort of incentive to encourage them to work faster. Or a consequence. DD's in 7/6 this year and is not particularly mathy, but an hour or so is enough for her to get it all done.

[PachiSusan]

 

:blushing:

 

I haven't needed solution manuals until part way through the high school books, and to be truthful, I don't think I would have needed them at all if I hadn't tried to take shortcuts.

 

I don't know about the newer editions, but with the older editions, if a mom works ahead of the student or sits EVERY day and READS the books with the student, and completes ALL the problems, both mom and the student will be so fast and accurate with the lessons, they will not need a solutions manual or any CD support.

 

Saxon is the turtle approach, like in Aesops's Fable. Slow and steady wins the day.

 

Susan, from everything you have shared with me, I strongly recommend using 54 with your daughter next year and NOT 65. If you need a solutions manual, it means YOU need to be completing EVERY problem of EVERY lesson along with your daughter. At some point it's going to come down to needing to do that. It's really not that bad, and in fact it's kind of soothing, like sharing puzzle time every day with your child. Don't rush through the reading; use it as a reading comprehension lesson.

 

We absolutely are doing 5/4 next year. I only have this one chance to build her foundation for math, something I didn't get. I had a science teacher teach me the foundational parts of math, geometry and pre algebra and I am not good at math because of it. I'm learning along with her a little bit ahead of her, so I really do feel I need the solutions manual to make sure the answers are right. If I felt more comfortable about ME, then I could let it go.

[Meriwether]

Dd9 will finish in about 45 minutes, but she makes careless mistakes (transposing numbers when writing down the problem, leaving out the decimal in the answer, etc.). Ds8 takes forever. On a good day he would finish a Saxon 5/4 lesson in under 1.5 hours. An average day would be 1.5 - 2 hours. Mondays would often be closer to 3. We had a couple of 3 - 5 hour days. It was beyond frustrating. He is slow. He eats slowly. He reads slowly. He runs slowly. Now that we are done with Saxon for the year, I can laugh about it. The long days drove me nuts at the time. But he makes less mistakes than Dd9.

[nurse_kris]

My 4th grader took hours to do Saxon math, but only because he hated it. He understood it, he just thought it was too much work. Eventually we switched to Teaching Textbooks. Life is much simpler now. ;)

[Hunter]

Is there a solution manuals for Saxon 54 2nd edition? I'm not sure there even is one.

[fairfarmhand]

Can they do one problem at a time on the marker board with you checking it? Somehow, markerboard math goes quicker!

[Spy Car]

#1 make sure the student is placed correctly. Saxon is MEANT to be EASY. The mixed problem sets are REVIEWS and the student should be fast and accurate with those problems. All too often people place students too high in Saxon. First they complain the series is too easy, but then complain it takes too long. :huh: It's true that INITIALLY a student can switch to another curriculum and work harder problems more quickly, but a year or two later, students are often behind where they would be, if they stuck with Saxon. The review of easy problems WORKS.

 

Being too darn easy, and so darn repetitive results in mind-addling boredom and supreme waste of time. Life is too short.

 

Constant review of easy problems, along with virtually no cognitively challenging problems WORKS. It WORKS to kill any love of mathematic, it WORKS to kill the spirit, and it WORKS to cause frustration and waste precious time.

 

It is so much better to do the opposite of Saxon, namely teach topics for depth in the first place. And then throw challenging work at the student that doesn't waste their time or insult their intelligence.

 

#2 the best way to see if a student is dawdling or placed too high, is to place a pile of small candies on the table. Sit with your student and race them problem by problem for the correct answer. Winner gets a piece of candy and sits and eats it in front of the loser who doesn't get one. Problem sets with my 10 year old went from 6 hours to 45 minutes, the first day we used Skittles. I eventually weaned him off of the Skittles once he learned how to FOCUS on one problem at a time, and not get overwhelmed by looking at the entire set. Sometimes I would save a few of the longest problems for later.

 

Or, instead of bribing kids with candy so they will attempt to get through their boring work one could make fun and challenging math (the sort that stimulates the mind) the "candy." Learning should be fun and inspiring.

 

In my experience, the students that are slowest in Saxon are the ones who need it most, and in the LONG run will be better off sticking with the program, even if it means moving to "below grade level" books. Junior colleges are FULL of students who have to start remedial math at addition. If a student can get through Algebra 1/2, they will be ahead of MOST Freshman, and at least will be taking remedial Algebra instead of starting with a review of addition. Saxon Algebra 1 and 2 were originally written by a junior college remedial math teacher, before he expanded the series for younger students.

 

And I would drop Saxon so fast your head would spin. The lack of depth in Saxons "procedural" approach is not the answer is one is seeking to cultivate sophisticated mathematical reasoning skills.

 

Saxon isn't the best series to use with tutoring students with limited butt-in-chair time that is broken up by long breaks, but I'm a big fan of Saxon as a homeschool curriculum for first generation homeschoolers. Parents with STEM careers and more resources can sometimes do something "better", but in GENERAL for FIRST generation families, Saxon is an awesome resource that shouldn't be dropped at the first sign of a struggle. It's certainly not the ONLY way to do math, but it's a very very good one.

 

 

Why shouldn't all home educators use "better" materials? What is it about "FIRST generation" families that sticks them with a punishing, inefficient, and shallow program, while other people get to use something "better?"

 

Personally, I'd tell people that they and their children only have one life, and they should use "better" programs now. That way they get more done, in less time, and cultivate deeper understanding and build better think skills than they will get using Saxon. All with time to spare.

 

Bill

[PachiSusan]

Is there a solution manuals for Saxon 54 2nd edition? I'm not sure there even is one.

 

 

I have no idea. I would hope there is some kind of answer key.

[Hunter]

 

I have no idea. I would hope there is some kind of answer key.

 

 

Yes, there are answer keys for all the versions. As the series begins to widen it's scope, and cater to the current preferences for more complicated ways of teaching/learning math, more and more support materials are being published.

 

I used all sorts of "better" math with both my boys, and I used Saxon with my both my boys. My gifted child didn't need the "better" math. He figured out all they wanted to teach him without being taught. My normal child was traumatized by the "better" math that was written by gifted teachers who assumed he was gifted. With both boys I would have been better to have just stuck with Saxon.

 

I didn't use Skittles for long. It was my first year homeschooling, and I used it as a test to see what would happen. When thrown into the deep end, we sometimes TEMPORARILY do things until we get established. I do NOT believe in bribing children to do school work. I do believe in using whatever tools necessary to EVALUATE and SHOW a child what they are capable of. My son was shocked to see what he was capable of. He got more joy out seeing how fast he completed his math, then he did from the eating the candy.

 

Not all students hate Saxon and prefer "better" curricula. Some students love Saxon. Some students hate or just tolerate some subjects no matter what mom does. Or sometimes a student would love a subject, if mom were a robot that could be programmed to be everything for everyone and not need her basic human rights honored to be healthy. She wouldn't need any sleep, or leisure time, person possessions, or friends. She could just spend ALL her time and money being a robot, and could be teacher of the year in every subject for every child, keep a perfect home, be her husband's fantasy and be the perfect in-law all at the same time.

[Erin]

DS can easily take 3 or 4 hours to do Saxon math. He can stretch about any 1 hour task to 3 or 4, really... :001_rolleyes:

We rarely do the mental math as he has a good grasp on it, anyway. We only do fact sheets about 2 or 3 days a week. We'll do all the problems in the lesson and evens/odds in the practice. That brings us down to about 45 minutes, when he's truly on the ball.

At the same time, DS does well in math anyway, so YMMV.

[Spy Car]

Not all students hate Saxon and prefer "better" curricula. Some students love Saxon. Some students hate or just tolerate some subjects no matter what mom does. Or sometimes a student would love a subject, if mom were a robot that could be programmed to be everything for everyone and not need her basic human rights honored to be healthy. She wouldn't need any sleep, or leisure time, person possessions, or friends. She could just spend ALL her time and money being a robot, and could be teacher of the year in every subject for every child, keep a perfect home, be her husband's fantasy and be the perfect in-law all at the same time.

 

Why home school if you see expectations that a parent will do the job competently as a denial of a parent's basic human rights?

 

Students have basic human rights too. Among those rights is the right to education. Those who take on the duty and responsibility of teaching children ought to take the job seriously.

 

Bill

[Walking-Iris]

Okay I'm just going to have to say this. SpyCar your replies (and I've seen similar on other threads) about Saxon are just your personal opinion only. I have been using Saxon 5/4 with my ds this year and I absolutely love it. My ds is doing quite well with it. And he's coming to Saxon from a strong foundation using Miquon math. I am not a procedural teacher and I have been able to teach with Saxon from my conceptual ideas. This whole elitist statement here. Quote: "Being too darn easy, and so darn repetitive results in mind-addling boredom and supreme waste of time. Life is too short.

 

Constant review of easy problems, along with virtually no cognitively challenging problems WORKS. It WORKS to kill any love of mathematic, it WORKS to kill the spirit, and it WORKS to cause frustration and waste precious time.

 

It is so much better to do the opposite of Saxon, namely teach topics for depth in the first place. And then throw challenging work at the student that doesn't waste their time or insult their intelligence."

 

is just plain insulting to the many many many homeschoolers who use Saxon and guess what??? thrive with it, learn with it and (stop the presses) are being challenged cognitively and having a love and enjoyment of math. Saxon may feel like an insult to YOUR intelligence, but don't get confused here that your opinions on math are the only ones that matter.

 

I do take my responsibility to homeschool very seriously. To somehow imply that those who choose to use Saxon are somehow taking the easy way out or not caring about the student's "human rights" is ridiculous.

 

​I know you are somehow the math guru of these boards, but really, give it a break. If you used and didn't like Saxon...fine. If anyone used it and didn't like it...fine. That's okay. Finding and using the curricula and methods that work for one's individual HOMESCHOOLED child and unique family IS taking the child's education seriously. But making the statements you have made that are bordering on being insulting to those who do use Saxon are just not necessary.

 

To the OP. It takes my ds about 40 minutes tops to complete a Saxon lesson. If the entire lesson is too much at one time for your child I would break it into two days. Do the Mixed on the next day. Also address any behavioral issues that are causing the dawdling. Maybe that means you sit with them for some time as they work.

 

​But a kid has the potential to dawdle and dislike doing their math work regardless of what program you choose to use. Figure out if it's a math problem or a discipline problem.

[Hunter]

Why home school if you see expectations that a parent will do the job competently as a denial of a parent's basic human rights?

 

Students have basic human rights too. Among those rights is the right to education. Those who take on the duty and responsibility of teaching children ought to take the job seriously.

 

Bill

 

 

Spycar, come on :lol: :001_tt2: . I enjoy you at THIS stage of my life, but years ago, listening to people like you about math and Greek got me off track, and did MY boys no good at all.

[Spy Car]

Okay I'm just going to have to say this. SpyCar your replies (and I've seen similar on other threads) about Saxon are just your personal opinion only. I have been using Saxon 5/4 with my ds this year and I absolutely love it. My ds is doing quite well with it. And he's coming to Saxon from a strong foundation using Miquon math. I am not a procedural teacher and I have been able to teach with Saxon from my conceptual ideas. This whole elitist statement here. Quote: "Being too darn easy, and so darn repetitive results in mind-addling boredom and supreme waste of time. Life is too short.

 

Constant review of easy problems, along with virtually no cognitively challenging problems WORKS. It WORKS to kill any love of mathematic, it WORKS to kill the spirit, and it WORKS to cause frustration and waste precious time.

 

It is so much better to do the opposite of Saxon, namely teach topics for depth in the first place. And then throw challenging work at the student that doesn't waste their time or insult their intelligence."

 

Comments aimed the th OP, whose child is taking 3-4 hours to get math lessons completed.

 

Bring a strong foundation in mathematics from Miquon (which is a great program for developing conceptual understanding in both parents and children) is a great idea, as Saxon is notoriously lacking in this area.

 

If you are teaching "conceptually"(and I have no reason to doubt it) that is because of what you are bring to the math-mix, and does not speak to what is included in the Saxon program. Right?

 

is just plain insulting to the many many many homeschoolers who use Saxon and guess what??? thrive with it, learn with it and (stop the presses) are being challenged cognitively and having a love and enjoyment of math. Saxon may feel like an insult to YOUR intelligence, but don't get confused here that your opinions on math are the only ones that matter.

 

The estimation of Saxon being a repetitive, boring, unchallenging, inefficient, procedural, and incremental math program is not unusual. Even Hunter describes it (accurately) as an "easy" program that "works" by repetition of procedure.

 

This ain't the only path. Someone spending 3 hours a day should know there are "better" alternatives.

 

I do take my responsibility to homeschool very seriously. To somehow imply that those who choose to use Saxon are somehow taking the easy way out or not caring about the student's "human rights" is ridiculous.

 

Take it up with Hunter, this seems to be her line of agruement not mine.

 

​I know you are somehow the math guru of these boards, but really, give it a break. If you used and didn't like Saxon...fine. If anyone used it and didn't like it...fine. That's okay. Finding and using the curricula and methods that work for one's individual HOMESCHOOLED child and unique family IS taking the child's education seriously. But making the statements you have made that are bordering on being insulting to those who do use Saxon are just not necessary.

 

We are discussing a situation that clearly is NOT WORKING. The OP is getting advice to soldier on. I don't believe that advice makes sense.

 

To the OP. It takes my ds about 40 minutes tops to complete a Saxon lesson. If the entire lesson is too much at one time for your child I would break it into two days. Do the Mixed on the next day. Also address any behavioral issues that are causing the dawdling. Maybe that means you sit with them for some time as they work.

 

​But a kid has the potential to dawdle and dislike doing their math work regardless of what program you choose to use. Figure out if it's a math problem or a discipline problem.

 

Dawdling can be directly related to how interesting the work is. Sit a child down with a bunch of math-fact drill sheets and don't be surprised if they are not inspired. But give them work that involves creative problem solving along with the skill building and you may have a child who is inspired to worth hard and who enjoys the subject.

 

There is a very real contrast between the way Saxon teaches (incrementally and though repetition of procedural problems), and the way "better" programs approach math. I don't think this is a matter of dispute.

 

If you choose to be insulted by the reality of the situation, which is that "better" math programs involve creative problem solving and the development of deep mathematical reasoning (areas where Saxon sorely lacking) that is your prerogative.

 

Bill

[Hunter]

Spycar, what about all the kids that hate your favorite programs? What about all the moms that post that these programs are "NOT WORKING" and taking "3 hours a day"?

 

People homeschool for many many many reasons. Usually they are rebelling against the one-sized-fits all curriculum of the PS. There is NO way that there can be a one-sized-fits-all homeschool math, to meet the needs of all those different styles of rebellion. :lol:

[Hunter]

Hey, Bill, I just got a concerned PM about us. You like me right? You aren't going for my jugular, but are just having fun talking about one of your favorite TOPICS? I'm just playing back with you, assuming you are playing.

 

I don't know. I guess even if you are not playing, I'm just going to play back anyway, cause I like you, and you make me laugh instead of wounding me. And I like this smilie :001_tt2: and don't have anyone else here to use it on. :D

[Kuovonne]

nm

[abrightmom]

Lessons take 45-90 minutes here, if they stay on task.

Wow! :)

[abrightmom]

Okay I'm just going to have to say this. SpyCar your replies (and I've seen similar on other threads) about Saxon are just your personal opinion only. I have been using Saxon 5/4 with my ds this year and I absolutely love it. My ds is doing quite well with it. And he's coming to Saxon from a strong foundation using Miquon math. I am not a procedural teacher and I have been able to teach with Saxon from my conceptual ideas. This whole elitist statement here. Quote: "Being too darn easy, and so darn repetitive results in mind-addling boredom and supreme waste of time. Life is too short.

 

Constant review of easy problems, along with virtually no cognitively challenging problems WORKS. It WORKS to kill any love of mathematic, it WORKS to kill the spirit, and it WORKS to cause frustration and waste precious time.

 

It is so much better to do the opposite of Saxon, namely teach topics for depth in the first place. And then throw challenging work at the student that doesn't waste their time or insult their intelligence."

 

is just plain insulting to the many many many homeschoolers who use Saxon and guess what??? thrive with it, learn with it and (stop the presses) are being challenged cognitively and having a love and enjoyment of math. Saxon may feel like an insult to YOUR intelligence, but don't get confused here that your opinions on math are the only ones that matter.

 

I do take my responsibility to homeschool very seriously. To somehow imply that those who choose to use Saxon are somehow taking the easy way out or not caring about the student's "human rights" is ridiculous.

 

​I know you are somehow the math guru of these boards, but really, give it a break. If you used and didn't like Saxon...fine. If anyone used it and didn't like it...fine. That's okay. Finding and using the curricula and methods that work for one's individual HOMESCHOOLED child and unique family IS taking the child's education seriously. But making the statements you have made that are bordering on being insulting to those who do use Saxon are just not necessary.

 

To the OP. It takes my ds about 40 minutes tops to complete a Saxon lesson. If the entire lesson is too much at one time for your child I would break it into two days. Do the Mixed on the next day. Also address any behavioral issues that are causing the dawdling. Maybe that means you sit with them for some time as they work.

 

​But a kid has the potential to dawdle and dislike doing their math work regardless of what program you choose to use. Figure out if it's a math problem or a discipline problem.

 

 

Amen.

[Spy Car]

Hey, Bill, I just got a concerned PM about us. You like me right? You aren't going for my jugular, but are just having fun talking about one of your favorite TOPICS? I'm just playing back with you, assuming you are playing.

 

Absolutely. I like you a great deal.

 

We are often polar opposites on pedagogy. But neither of us ought to take that personally.

 

I don't know. I guess even if you are not playing, I'm just going to play back anyway, cause I like you, and you make me laugh instead of wounding me. And I like this smilie :001_tt2: and don't have anyone else here to use it on. :D

 

I do hope than the humor comes through in the posts. Conversation can be tricky on the Internet.

 

Bill

[Hunter]

Absolutely. I like you a great deal.

 

We are often polar opposites on pedagogy. But neither of us ought to take that personally.

 

 

 

I do hope than the humor comes through in the posts. Conversation can be tricky on the Internet.

 

Bill

 

Bill, there are a LOT of neuro-typical women here who are used to talking TO each other instead of about TOPICS. I think some of your humor is misunderstood. :lol:

[Spy Car]

Bill, there are a LOT of neuro-typical women here who are used to talking TO each other instead of about TOPICS.

 

TO each other, or ABOUT each other?

 

I think some of your humor is misunderstood. :lol:

 

That's for sure! :D

 

Bill

[Ravin]

For the record, my DD claims she hates saxon but seems to be learning from it. She hated Miquon and didn't seem to learn from it. She likes Fred, but Fred alone doesn't give her enough practice to stick.