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Ability vs. Interest in degree choice


Miss Marple
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How much emphasis should be put on selecting a degree based on interest vs. ability? I'm wondering this..again...with my second son. He is totally kicking his differential equations class and his calculus 4 class (both taken this spring). He's scoring 100%'s on exams when the averages are in the 60's. Last semester his calc. 3 teacher told him he should consider a career in mathematics. But he cannot see himself doing that. He's interested in medicine - particularly nuclear (radiologic oncology). His grades in all his classes are good, but the mathematics grades are exceptional.

 

I know that maths come easy to this guy but maybe he finds them boring? He doesn't see any math careers that are interesting to him. When I was picking a major I went with one that interested me, but I never had a subject area in which I excelled so I never considered that variable.

 

So...when discussing career/degree options with your students, how do you weigh interest vs ability?

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I tend to think that no matter how good he is, if he doesn't enjoy it, it probably won't be a good career for him. Plus, pure Math fields don't tend to be terribly lucrative. Which is fine if you love it... On the other hand, I would think a strong understanding of higher maths, especially calculus and differential equations, would be very valuable to someone in a radiology career. Assuming he is also decent at biology, physics, et cetera. Plus, there are more options in radiology than in pure mathematics.

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I saw this recently from Cal Newport (author of How to Be a Straight A Student, etc.) that seems to apply. He titled a blog post "In Choosing a Job: Don't Ask 'What Are You Good At?', Ask Instead "what Are You Willing to Get Good At?'" http://calnewport.com/blog/2013/04/10/in-choosing-a-job-dont-ask-what-are-you-good-at-ask-instead-what-are-you-willing-to-get-good-at/ I haven't really had time to read through and process it. But I think it goes along with the question you're posing in your post.

 

In the meantime, while waiting for wiser members to chime in, I'm slowly slowly reading through Newport's latest book, So Good They Can't Ignore You, which expands on the theme. This is something I've been thinking about lately, too. :bigear:

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I would encourage him to squeeze as much math as he can on the side even if he chooses not to major in the subject. When I was in grad school (for Math) two of my colleagues did projects in connection with professors at the med school. One used differential geometry in optical applications, another did something with neural systems (but I don't remember her field of Mathematics). One of my biology prof friends tells me that he wishes he knew more about dynamical systems. He feels that it is too late to conquer the subject but he encourages his students to learn about it.

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I strongly believe that a student needs to have the interest in his chosen degree. He may have abilities that he is not utilizing directly for this degree, but the knowledge and the benefit for his thinking abilities will not be lost if your son decides to choose a medical field despite being good in math.

 

In our department, we have student who is a double major in physics and math, gets a minor in both chemistry and French - and wants to go to medical school. He is brilliant and hardworking. He wants to be a doctor. So great; this will be a very smart, well educated doctor with a strong science background. Maybe some day, he might go into research and use those math and science skills directly - but maybe not; he may be a family practicioner who does math for fun on the side.

 

I am extremely careful not to push my own DD to go into physics just because she is so darn good at it. She would do great - but if her heart tells her to study English literature, I'll encourage her to go for a double major, but not to "be a physicist so you don't waste your talent".

Some kids are talented in many areas.

 

I would encourage your son to learn as much math as possible, maybe even get a minor, but if he is passionate about medicine, that's what he should do.

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Agreeing with everyone else. My ds sounds a lot like your ds and his math profs have tried to convince him to be a math major. He likes math, but he loves physics. He is planning on double majoring for now. What is your ds's major? Could he double in math? Our ds doesn't see himself pursuing a career in math, but the knowledge will benefit him and he enjoys the coursework even if he doesn't see it as a career.

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I tend to think that no matter how good he is, if he doesn't enjoy it, it probably won't be a good career for him. Plus, pure Math fields don't tend to be terribly lucrative. Which is fine if you love it... On the other hand, I would think a strong understanding of higher maths, especially calculus and differential equations, would be very valuable to someone in a radiology career. Assuming he is also decent at biology, physics, et cetera. Plus, there are more options in radiology than in pure mathematics.

 

 

I agree with the idea of less options in math. If there were a 007 (James Bond) kind of career in math, I think he'd go for it :)

 

I saw this recently from Cal Newport (author of How to Be a Straight A Student, etc.) that seems to apply. He titled a blog post "In Choosing a Job: Don't Ask 'What Are You Good At?', Ask Instead "what Are You Willing to Get Good At?'" http://calnewport.co...to-get-good-at/ I haven't really had time to read through and process it. But I think it goes along with the question you're posing in your post.

 

In the meantime, while waiting for wiser members to chime in, I'm slowly slowly reading through Newport's latest book, So Good They Can't Ignore You, which expands on the theme. This is something I've been thinking about lately, too. :bigear:

 

 

Thanks for the link. I'll head over and read through it. I need to expand my own understanding of this idea. I was never gifted in one area. I had some that came more easily to me, but nothing in which I was outstanding. So when I see my son being outstanding, I don't know where to go with it.

 

I would encourage him to squeeze as much math as he can on the side even if he chooses not to major in the subject. When I was in grad school (for Math) two of my colleagues did projects in connection with professors at the med school. One used differential geometry in optical applications, another did something with neural systems (but I don't remember her field of Mathematics). One of my biology prof friends tells me that he wishes he knew more about dynamical systems. He feels that it is too late to conquer the subject but he encourages his students to learn about it.

 

 

Funny you should mention optics. He's also considering ophthalmology and will be shadowing a local ophthalmologist this summer. I think the math and physics of it intrigues him.

 

I strongly believe that a student needs to have the interest in his chosen degree. He may have abilities that he is not utilizing directly for this degree, but the knowledge and the benefit for his thinking abilities will not be lost if your son decides to choose a medical field despite being good in math.

 

In our department, we have student who is a double major in physics and math, gets a minor in both chemistry and French - and wants to go to medical school. He is brilliant and hardworking. He wants to be a doctor. So great; this will be a very smart, well educated doctor with a strong science background. Maybe some day, he might go into research and use those math and science skills directly - but maybe not; he may be a family practicioner who does math for fun on the side.

 

I am extremely careful not to push my own DD to go into physics just because she is so darn good at it. She would do great - but if her heart tells her to study English literature, I'll encourage her to go for a double major, but not to "be a physicist so you don't waste your talent".

Some kids are talented in many areas.

 

I would encourage your son to learn as much math as possible, maybe even get a minor, but if he is passionate about medicine, that's what he should do.

 

 

He will only be a class short of a minor in math. I've thought about encouraging him to get that, but he's taking 18-19 hours per semester for the next 2 years since he is majoring in "mechanical engineering with pre-med option". I probably need to look over the math requirements for the minor, but that's what one of his counselors told him last year. He's was wondering if it would be worth it to bother getting a minor. I really couldn't answer that because what does one do with a minor?

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He's was wondering if it would be worth it to bother getting a minor. I really couldn't answer that because what does one do with a minor?

 

 

I think the main purpose of the minor is to show prospective employers or the grad/med school admissions people that you have studied this field in a more focused way than other subjects and have acquired a set body of subject expertise.

So, instead of the person having to wade through a transcript and counting up the math classes, "math minor" states clearly in two words that this student has a special interest in, and aptitude for, math.

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I believe that whenever possible, people should do work that they are interested in and that they enjoy. Assuming that your DS does go on to Med school, and then becomes a specialist, Physics would be a big help to him. I remember that the Ophthalmologist who did my LASIK surgeries, in 1997, had gone to Harvard or M.I.T., to study Lasers, because she was one of the pioneering scientists in that procedure, working for F.D.A. approval in the USA.

 

When I worked as a Software Engineer, I remember sharing an office with 4 or 5 people. Two or 3 of them had degrees in Music, and then went on to get an M.S. in Math.

 

A late Uncle had a Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering. When I was a teenager, he told me that he wished that he had gone into Physics, instead.

 

A B.S. degree in Physics would be at least as interesting to prospective employers as an Engineering degree, if he does not go onto Med school. Quite possibly, the Physics degree would be preferred, over an Engineering degree.

 

Physics would help your son if he does become a doctor. Math is also good. J

 

GL to your DS!

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My husband works in radiation oncology. He is a physicist. Your son needs to be good at math and physics to go into this field. This weeds out many Drs. It is an excellent field. The hours are a bit better than most Dr hours. There are few night and weekend hours on the Drs end. It is one of the few areas of medicine that are still making a profit. Drs earn quite a bit in this field. It sounds like both his ability and interest could help him in his chosen field. I would at least try a few physics courses.

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Just agreeing with all the great points everyone else brought up. And stressing how important it is to enjoy and be interested in your career field. I know too many people who have worked for *years* in jobs / fields they really don't enjoy because life circumstances (marriage, children, health insurance, mortgage, etc.) do not allow them to change to what they would have *really* wanted to do from the start. It's SO easy to become trapped in a job you don't enjoy just because you have a "natural ability" to do it.

 

Also, something no one else mentioned -- sounds like your DS should be looking into tutoring math while finishing his own degree! Tutors make better money than a lot of other part time jobs that college students can find to do. And colleges often hire students to be the tutors. Often, this can be a VERY cushy job; the student tutor just shows up for their hours (that they schedule around their own classes and convenience) each week at the tutoring center, and can work on their own homework or other projects while waiting for a student to come in and ask for help. Paid to do your own schoolwork, quite often! ;)

 

Congrats to DS on doing so fabulously in his class! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

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Very good advice here. Just because one *can* do a certain something doesn't mean that one *should* do a certain something. This applies to lots of areas of life! Just because I *can* afford do buy something doesn't mean I *should* buy something - only one example. Can swap that out for borrowing lots of money, spending lots of free time in idle behavior (such as surfing on the internet!), etc. And, it isn't always a "negative" behavior. I truly believe my ds could be a music performance major. There is nothing inherently wrong about doing that - but just because he's good at it doesn't mean that should necessarily turn into his vocational choice.

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So...when discussing career/degree options with your students, how do you weigh interest vs ability?

 

I tell my kids to follow their hearts.

 

The only career advice I got when I was younger was that I "should be a writer," because I wrote so well. It never really crossed my mind to major in anything other than English or to plan on any career other than editing/writing. So, that's what I did.

 

The problem was that, once I was out in the world and had to make a living, I found the kinds of jobs I could get with that background bored me to tears (literally). I spent a desperate and miserable decade attempting to find my way out of that trajectory, literally crying myself to sleep many nights knowing I had to get up and go to work the following morning.

 

My own kids are very bright and academically capable. And, although there is no avoiding the fact that this makes getting through school easier for them, I do not believe it has much of anything to do with what they should major in or the careers they should choose. On fact, the research I've read suggest that, for smart kids, it's often better and healthier for them to opt for educational paths and careers that do not sync up with their strongest skills or talents, because the potential for boredom and burnout is minimized.

 

I know my daughter is very clear about the fact that she loves theatre in part because it terrifies her and she has to work so hard to overcome that fear and be good at it. So many other things come so much more easily to her, but it's difficult to value and remain interested in something that you don't have to struggle to do well.

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I strongly believe that a student needs to have the interest in his chosen degree. He may have abilities that he is not utilizing directly for this degree, but the knowledge and the benefit for his thinking abilities will not be lost if your son decides to choose a medical field despite being good in math.

 

In our department, we have student who is a double major in physics and math, gets a minor in both chemistry and French - and wants to go to medical school. He is brilliant and hardworking. He wants to be a doctor. So great; this will be a very smart, well educated doctor with a strong science background. Maybe some day, he might go into research and use those math and science skills directly - but maybe not; he may be a family practicioner who does math for fun on the side.

 

I am extremely careful not to push my own DD to go into physics just because she is so darn good at it. She would do great - but if her heart tells her to study English literature, I'll encourage her to go for a double major, but not to "be a physicist so you don't waste your talent".

Some kids are talented in many areas.

 

I would encourage your son to learn as much math as possible, maybe even get a minor, but if he is passionate about medicine, that's what he should do.

 

This is a super good comment. As was the one in a pp about considering what you're willing to become good at.

 

My dh is currently specializing in a particular field. Less than ten years ago, he was an absolute neophyte at it. What didn't change is the fact that he knows how to learn, how to synthesize information and how to present it so that other people can understand it.

 

In the military, you are very often sent to new jobs that are a huge stretch from what you've previously done. One of the things that teaches you is that you don't have to fear new situations or being in a position of having to stretch. Instead you learn how to take the skills you do have and apply them in new ways.

 

I think it might be incredibly boring to be slotted into something that I didn't really enjoy, just because I did it well.

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