Looking for Physics suggestions

[TXMary2]

In your opinion/experience which Physics curriculum is the best preparation for college science? We are currently looking at Saxon, Thinkwell, and Apologia. Any suggestions?

[Candid]

I'm curious because I looked at Thinkwell and did not see a high school physics course.

 

In my case I am looking at Derek Owen's Physics class and the John Hopkins CTY online's honors physics (although they have AP too).

[TXMary2]

http://www.thinkwellhomeschool.com/products/physics-1

[snowbeltmom]

In your opinion/experience which Physics curriculum is the best preparation for college science? We are currently looking at Saxon, Thinkwell, and Apologia. Any suggestions?

 

My oldest used Physics by Giancoli for his first physics course. The math required was algebra I and very basic trig that one could learn in 15 minutes. He took the Physics SAT II and the AP B exams that year. He used Barron's and the free Sparknotes online when prepping for the exams.

 

I get to rinse and repeat the process with my rising 9th grader next year. :ack2:

[snowbeltmom]

http://www.thinkwell...ducts/physics-1

 

I am not sure the level of math your child has had, but the Thinkwell course requires calculus.

[Luckymama]

 

My oldest used Physics by Giancoli for his first physics course. The math required was algebra I and very basic trig that one could learn in 15 minutes. He took the Physics SAT II and the AP B exams that year. He used Barron's and the free Sparknotes online when prepping for the exams.

 

I get to rinse and repeat the process with my rising 9th grader next year. :ack2:

 

 

This is our plan for next year.

[8filltheheart]

Mary, did you read Thinkwell's course description? I think that Candid's pt was that their course is an advanced one requiring cal. Directly from the link you posted:

 

Thinkwell's Physics I is a calculus-based college-level physics course, intended for physics majors as well as for engineering and other science students. It includes topics that are generally covered in the first semester of a two-semester sequence.

 

It's a great head start for the college-bound math, science, or engineering student.

 

Calculus is a prerequisite.

 

Our favorite alg based course is Kinetic Books.

 

[regentrude]

The Giancoli text is good. The Knight College Physics text is good, too, and very suitable for an algebra based high school physics course. That's what I use for my 9th graders.

[Candid]

http://www.thinkwell...ducts/physics-1

 

 

That's the one they list as a college class.

[TXMary2]

Yes, I saw it was listed as a college course. He currently takes college courses through dual enrollment, but I did miss that he would need Calculus, which he doesn't have. I will cross them off the list. Thanks.

[AngieW in Texas]

It's difficult without knowing the math level of your student.

 

For a student who struggled through Algebra I or is taking Algebra I concurrently, I would use Hewitt's Conceptual Physics.

For a student who has completed Algebra I without a struggle, I would use Holt Physics.

For a student who has completed Algebra I without a struggle and is taking Algebra II concurrently or just completed Algebra II, I would use Giancoli's Physics.

 

I am planning on using University Physics by Young and Freedman for calculus-based. You will also see this text listed as Sears and Zemansky because they were the original authors. Young was added when Zemansky died and then Young took over the series by himself for several years after Sears died and then Young added in Freedman as a coauthor.

 

Giancoli's Physics is a common text for AP Physics B and will prepare a student well for the SAT subject test also.

University Physics is a common text for AP Physics C.

[jhschool]

My oldest used Physics by Giancoli for his first physics course. The math required was algebra I and very basic trig that one could learn in 15 minutes. He took the Physics SAT II and the AP B exams that year. He used Barron's and the free Sparknotes online when prepping for the exams.

 

I get to rinse and repeat the process with my rising 9th grader next year. :ack2:

 

 

How well was your child prepared for the Physics SAT II and AP B exams using Giancoli?

I would like to use this book too next year.

[AngieW in Texas]

Very frustrating. I had a nice long post typed out and was about to hit submit and then my computer crashed and I lost it.

 

Giancoli nicely covers the content to prepare students for both exams. They overlap almost exactly. The difference between the exams is that Physics B test covers fluids while the subject test does not and the subject test covers relativity while the Physics B test does not.

 

If your student in planning on taking the AP Physics B exam, you need to have finished covering the text by the beginning of April so you can spend the rest of the time until the AP test focusing on review and specific test prep.

 

My first two students for this course both took the AP Physics B exam. My current students have opted to do only the subject test.

 

I really liked 5 Steps to a 5 for prep for the AP Physics B exam along with a lot test prep materials from here: http://www.appractic...om/ap-physics-b

I had my students do a LOT of released free response problems and graded them according to the rubric on the collegeboard website.

 

I am using Kaplan for subject test prep along with the practice questions from Giancoli's companion site.

 

ETA:

I forgot to add that I consider Algebra II concurrently to be the minimum math level for Giancoli. Most students should wait until after Algebra II to tackle Giancoli, not because there is a lot of Algebra II content in the course (because there isn't), but because the physics is hard enough without having the student struggling to deal with complicated multistep algebra problems. Any textbook that will prepare a student for the AP Physics B exam will have a lot of problems like this.

[snowbeltmom]

How well was your child prepared for the Physics SAT II and AP B exams using Giancoli?

I would like to use this book too next year.

 

He achieved a 5 on the AP and an 800 on the SAT II.

 

In addition to the textbook, he used the following resources to prep for the exams:

Sparknotes online (which is free)

Barron's

FRQ's listed on the College Board website. Shockingly, these FRQ's were free.

[snowbeltmom]

I had my students do a LOT of released free response problems and graded them according to the rubric on the collegeboard website.

 

 

:iagree:

 

In my experience, this was the most valuable component of the test prep. It was a real eye-opener for my son to discover that even though he arrived at the correct answer, he only managed to get 2/3 of the points because he failed to show every single step. I had been asking him for years to "show his work." He finally listened to me after he saw how many points he would lose on the exam.

[HSDCY]

What other books besides the textbook do we need if we decide to go with Giancoli? I really like the online companion website here but my physics is rusty and might need extra help with solutions.

[AngieW in Texas]

You need the instructor solution manual. That is only available in the instructor resource manual cd set.

0130352462

 

This has the solutions for all of the problems and also has powerpoints and a test generator.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Instructor-Resource-Center-Physics-Giancoli/dp/0130352462/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367103655&sr=8-1&keywords=0130352462

[Luckymama]

You need the instructor solution manual. That is only available in the instructor resource manual cd set.

0130352462

 

This has the solutions for all of the problems and also has powerpoints and a test generator.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Instructor-Resource-Center-Physics-Giancoli/dp/0130352462/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367103655&sr=8-1&keywords=0130352462

 

 

Wow, that is pricey!

[AngieW in Texas]

I actually got the textbook and the instructor resource cds from another hser on these boards for $100 altogether 4 years ago. I'm not selling mine because I am going to continue using it to teach physics classes in my home.

[Susan of Croton]

New to ninth grade science. Does this course have a lab component? Should it be attempted by a non-scientist mom/teacher?

[AngieW in Texas]

Giancoli's needs a teacher who knows the subject. I can't imagine trying to teach from that text without already knowing the material. My degree is in physics, but working through the book for the first time 20 years after my last physics course still required some effort on my part. I had even taught calculus-based physics for a couple of semesters at a community college right after I got my degree.

 

It doesn't have a lab component. I used Lab Paqs.

[Julie in MN]

New to ninth grade science. Does this course have a lab component? Should it be attempted by a non-scientist mom/teacher?

Usually 9th graders do more of a Conceptual Physics course. Unless you have a very advanced math student?

[snowbeltmom]

Giancoli's needs a teacher who knows the subject. I can't imagine trying to teach from that text without already knowing the material.

 

 

I have a degree in electrical engineering, but my physics was extremely rusty. I would work through the example problems in each chapter together with my son and then I would have him work through the corresponding problems out of the Barron's test prep guide and Sparknotes. If he had a question, he would read through the solutions provided. Very rarely did I have to provide any additional input based on my knowledge, thankfully.

 

My kids are starting Physics B after the completion of AoPS's Introductory level courses. Thanks to AoPS, they have very strong problem solving skills. While my oldest didn't have any prior background in physics before taking Physics B, my middle does: he is finishing up Derek Owen's physics course this year.

 

If you have a child with strong math/problem solving skills who is used to working independently, I think the Giancoli text could work even if the parent didn't have knowledge in physics. .Otherwise, I agree with Angie.

[8filltheheart]

I'll just offer the suggestion of Kinetic Book's Physics again. ;) It is completely self-contained with lectures. If students enroll in Kolbe Academy for an individual course, you can purchase their lesson plans and tests and the solutions manual.

[Luckymama]

Wrt to Giancoli, I plan on working through the book this summer. I've helped my two older kids with their private school physics homework, but it's still been 26 years (!!!) since my last physics class. Dd's an AoPS problem-solving kid which does make my life easier :)

 

I found 125 Physics Projects for the Evil Genius while browsing the library this week http://www.amazon.com/125-Physics-Projects-Evil-Genius/dp/0071621318/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367154140&sr=8-1&keywords=Physics+evil+genius I think I'll be able to create a strong lab component using this book though I will need to spend a good deal of time matching the activities with the text. Most of the activities use basic items that we already have (mass set, pulleys, springs, wire, multimeter, balance, magnets, glassware).

[HSDCY]

You need the instructor solution manual. That is only available in the instructor resource manual cd set.

0130352462

 

This has the solutions for all of the problems and also has powerpoints and a test generator.

 

http://www.amazon.co...ords=0130352462

 

 

Thank you so much!

[Susan of Croton]

Usually 9th graders do more of a Conceptual Physics course. Unless you have a very advanced math student?

 

I don't know if he's advanced; in 8th grade now we just finished Singapore NEM part B with little trouble. Frankly, I had planned on 9th grade physical science, 10th g. chem, 11th grade bio, 12th grade more physics. I planned to outsource 10-12 grade science. DS 14 has an instinct for physical principles that I don't have, so I don't want to "hold him back". My instinct is telling me that in 9th grade it would be okay to prioritize math (again) over lab science. Am I crazy?

[lewelma]

Giancoli's needs a teacher who knows the subject.

The book seems really self-explanatory. Is it possible for a math and physics loving student to navigate the material independently? I have no interest in relearning physics, so was wondering if you thought a tutor was a requirement or whether I can hand him the book and solutions guide. My boy has completely self taught AoPS math since he was 9, so has very good independent learning skills. Thanks for any opinions,

 

Ruth in NZ

[Kathy in Richmond]

The book seems really self-explanatory. Is it possible for a math and physics loving student to navigate the material independently? I have no interest in relearning physics, so was wondering if you thought a tutor was a requirement or whether I can hand him the book and solutions guide. My boy has completely self taught AoPS math since he was 9, so has very good independent learning skills. Thanks for any opinions,

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

Ruth, my AoPS type kids were also fine with Giancoli physics. Ds worked through the whole book & dd used selections. I did the work alongside ds only because I wanted to relearn my physics; he really did not need me to explain/teach any part of it. Both of them tested very well on the SAT II physics exam at the end.

[snowbeltmom]

The book seems really self-explanatory. Is it possible for a math and physics loving student to navigate the material independently? I have no interest in relearning physics, so was wondering if you thought a tutor was a requirement or whether I can hand him the book and solutions guide. My boy has completely self taught AoPS math since he was 9, so has very good independent learning skills. Thanks for any opinions,

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Imo, with your son's background of being able to work through AoPS independently, I think your son will be fine to use the same approach with the physics. Hiippocampus may also be a good resource if your son gets stuck on a concept.

[snowbeltmom]

Sorry, double post.

[lewelma]

For those of you using Giancoli, do you have a list of problems that you assign? I am currently deciding between Knight and Giancoli, and one of the benefits of Knight is that Regentrude has kindly provided her problem selections and tests. In a different thread, she said that doing all of the problems in Knight would be overkill. I am assuming that the same is true for Giancoli, and since I don't want to relearn physics, I will not be in the position to chose which problems are most useful. Is anything like this available for Giancoli? Thanks!

 

Ruth in NZ

[Kathy in Richmond]

Assignment lists: We used this wonderful teacher's website for pacing Giancoli. If you click on any topic, you can see what homework problems she assigned (there are lists for either the 5th or 6th edition). In addition, there are many links to demos, labs, simulations, problem solving on special topics, etc).

 

Pacing: We started in early Sept and aimed to finish mechanics by Christmas break (first 8 chapters in the third edition book which we own). It's important to really have a good grasp of kinematics, the laws of motion, energy methods, momentum, and rotational motion. So we devoted approximately two weeks per chapter, including lab work and quizzes.

 

After Christmas break, we picked up the pace, as it was going well and he was getting the hang of it. So with the material on fluids, electricity, magnetism, & through the wave nature of light (chapters 10 through 24 in the 3rd edition), we spent about one week per chapter. The exception was the chapter on vibrations and waves which took two weeks.

 

At the end of the year, ds skimmed (read with minimal problem sets) the chapters on optical instruments, nuclear physics (which he remembered from chemistry), quantum theory, & special relativity.

 

Evaluations: Chapter quizzes from the publisher's website Just click on a chapter number to see the publisher's resources; specifically I used the Practice Problems as quizzes. They're graded online and each quiz can be re-loaded with new variable values if needed. In addition, my kids took the SAT II Physics exam at end of year.

[KimberlyI]

I'll just offer the suggestion of Kinetic Book's Physics again. ;) It is completely self-contained with lectures. If students enroll in Kolbe Academy for an individual course, you can purchase their lesson plans and tests and the solutions manual.

 

 

I am intrigued by this possibility. I was leaning toward Derek Owens physics, partially because it uses the Giancoli text which seems well reviewed. However, I'm not sure my son needs that much support. He is a good independent learner so not sure the price is worth it. However, the Kinetic books description says the class is based on Hewitt's CP. Do you think it is enough math for a future engineering major? Thanks!

[8filltheheart]

 

 

 

I am intrigued by this possibility. I was leaning toward Derek Owens physics, partially because it uses the Giancoli text which seems well reviewed. However, I'm not sure my son needs that much support. He is a good independent learner so not sure the price is worth it. However, the Kinetic books description says the class is based on Hewitt's CP. Do you think it is enough math for a future engineering major? Thanks!

 

You misread. It is not based on Hewitt's. It is its own program. It says its conceptual course would be considered somewhat more rigorous than Hewitt's. They also offer a Principles of Physics which covers additional material. http://www.kineticbooks.com/products/textbook/text_levels.html

It is a more rigorous textbook than Conceptual Physics but does not require calculus. To cite a distinction between the two textbooks: Principles of Physics includes topics such as the adiabatic process in an engine cycle, presenting equations relevant to the process, while Conceptual Physics does not. This textbook is similar in scope to Physics (Cutnell & Johnson) and College Physics (Serway and Faughn)

 

From my understanding, though I am not 100% positive,the only difference in these two courses is the total amt covered, not individual chpt content differences. If you read Kolbe's website, they distinguish between K and Honors which is the distinction between Conceptual and Principles.

http://www.kolbe.org/Science-Curriculum/

 

I don't know physics at all except at a very, very low level. Our 11th grader took the Conceptual course in8th grade and it was what made him fall in love with physics. It lead him to taking 3 yrs of astronomy courses and purchasing almost every TC physics/astronomy set. He has had very high As in his college cal-based physics......but I cannot make a connection between Kinetic Books and his success in the uni classes bc there are too many variables......The above plus he is a very strong math student.

 

All I can say is that he loved KB and he recommends it. :) Our dd will be taking it next yr as a 9th grader (the conceptual level).

 

FWIW, this is what Kolbe states about the Principle program:

 

This text is mentioned on the College Board website as appropriate for students preparing to take the AP© Physics B exam, and the Kolbe Honors (H) course of study adheres closely to the requirements for this exam. Topics include mechanics, mechanical waves, thermodynamics, electricity and magnetism, light and optics, and an introduction to modern physics.

[lisabees]

The timing of this thread is perfect. Ds is currently reading through and enjoying Hewitt's Conceptual Physics, and, like 8's son, is obsessed with physics and astronomy. He is very capable and motivated and I'd like to see him take Physics B and SAT II next year. He is currently finishing up chapter 14 in AoPS and will continue through the summer.

 

My oldest used Physics by Giancoli for his first physics course. The math required was algebra I and very basic trig that one could learn in 15 minutes. He took the Physics SAT II and the AP B exams that year. He used Barron's and the free Sparknotes online when prepping for the exams.

 

I get to rinse and repeat the process with my rising 9th grader next year. :ack2:

 

 

This is good to know. And Kathy - thanks for all of the supporting links!

 

The Giancoli text is good. The Knight College Physics text is good, too, and very suitable for an algebra based high school physics course. That's what I use for my 9th graders.

 

 

What is the difference between the two texts? I think I read that Giancoli is wordier? Ds doesn't mind wordy. When he reads through Hewitt, I love hearing his, "Aaahh! That's cool!" comments.

 

Giancoli's needs a teacher who knows the subject. I can't imagine trying to teach from that text without already knowing the material. My degree is in physics, but working through the book for the first time 20 years after my last physics course still required some effort on my part. I had even taught calculus-based physics for a couple of semesters at a community college right after I got my degree.

 

It doesn't have a lab component. I used Lab Paqs.

 

 

This scares me. I cannot teach ds. He is beyond me.

 

You misread. It is not based on Hewitt's. It is its own program. It says its conceptual course would be considered somewhat more rigorous than Hewitt's. They also offer a Principles of Physics which covers additional material. http://www.kineticbo...ext_levels.html

 

 

From my understanding, though I am not 100% positive,the only difference in these two courses is the total amt covered, not individual chpt content differences. If you read Kolbe's website, they distinguish between K and Honors which is the distinction between Conceptual and Principles.

http://www.kolbe.org...nce-Curriculum/

 

I don't know physics at all except at a very, very low level. Our 11th grader took the Conceptual course in8th grade and it was what made him fall in love with physics. It lead him to taking 3 yrs of astronomy courses and purchasing almost every TC physics/astronomy set. He has had very high As in his college cal-based physics......but I cannot make a connection between Kinetic Books and his success in the uni classes bc there are too many variables......The above plus he is a very strong math student.

 

All I can say is that he loved KB and he recommends it. :) Our dd will be taking it next yr as a 9th grader (the conceptual level).

 

 

Well, this means something to me, if your son still heartily recommends it. I think there is a 30 day trial or something? Ds is very critical of computer-based programs, though, as he programs etc. The graphics may drive him bonkers! But, he can get over that and I would certainly appreciate a self-contained program that I don't need to teach.

 

So - While I am happy with this thread, it is confusing me more! I might have to order Knight and Giancoli to compare.

[KimberlyI]

From my understanding, though I am not 100% positive,the only difference in these two courses is the total amt covered, not individual chpt content differences. If you read Kolbe's website, they distinguish between K and Honors which is the distinction between Conceptual and Principles.

http://www.kolbe.org...nce-Curriculum/

 

I don't know physics at all except at a very, very low level. Our 11th grader took the Conceptual course in8th grade and it was what made him fall in love with physics. It lead him to taking 3 yrs of astronomy courses and purchasing almost every TC physics/astronomy set. He has had very high As in his college cal-based physics......but I cannot make a connection between Kinetic Books and his success in the uni classes bc there are too many variables......The above plus he is a very strong math student.

 

All I can say is that he loved KB and he recommends it. :) Our dd will be taking it next yr as a 9th grader (the conceptual level).

 

 

Thanks, that is very helpful! As lisabees said, a recommendation from a former user says a lot. My son has been devouring every astronomy related library book for a few years now. I think it is time for us to get some TC sets for him.