loftmama Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I'll be honest. I just don't think scientifically. I am not a dummy and it's probably a mental block. But there it is. And I don't want to pass down my failure to my children. If I could "outsource" their curriculum in just one area, it would be Science. The learning curve is just too huge. It's not just learning the content; it's thinking about Science, reading about Science, incorporating projects into Science, shopping for the Science materials, supplementing Science materials, modifying Science materials for different ages, and on and on. History has been a big learning curve, too, but it's a book, a map and a globe, and a timeline. I can do that. So the more I read about Science curriculum choices, the more I feel like putting down my head on the table and crying... and then falling asleep. Every time I think I've found "the one" I read criticisms about it. Sigh. This year, I bought Elemental Science- Earth Science & Astronomy at the elementary level and was supposed to "modify" it for my older son. What really happened was I bought a bunch of Janice VanCleave books and some Kingfisher and Usborne books and we read it on Friday if we got to it. I tried to remember to talk about it if I didn't read it with them. Sometimes I told them to write something. Mostly we put it off and went outside and laid on the trampoline looking at trees and clouds. I tried to remember to talk about it. About every 6 weeks, more or less, I panicked and we spent a whole day reading Science stuff together and attempted 3 or 4 experiments, possibly succeeding with doing 1 correctly. They are bright 9- and 12-year-olds, very good in Math and excellent readers and possibly ruined in Science. Is it too late for my 12yo to get enough of an introduction in Chemistry and Physics this year to prepare him for high school? We live beyond the boonies, with no homeschool groups, and certainly no Science fairs. We tried 4H once but the poor chickens had too much free range and ventilation and didn't get fat enough. It was abysmal. We are Christian and prefer an old Earth viewpoint - or at least one that leaves matters of faith up to the parents. I am looking at Rainbow Science and McHenry's The Elements. Do you think exposing a 7th grader to these programs is adequate for high school prep work or should it be supplemented? Can it be modified "down" to an advanced 9yo's level? My 12yo is very engineer-minded and very inventive. He's bright enough to have a good shot at a university with a strong Science program if I haven't ruined him. My 9yo is much more biology/zoology-minded, not mechanically/inventive-minded at all, but has some weird animal-whisper-ness ability to him. Trying not to ruin that. Is there a curriculum you love? If you've read this far, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Well number one, when I feel a subject is getting wait listed off the schedule, I modify our plans, in writing, to make that the first thing we do so that it gets done. My second suggestion is to make sure whatever you get works for YOU. That's even more important than whether it works for the kids bc if it works for you, then you will actually use it. So that brings me to some questions about why you didn't use it this year? If you are overwhelmed by doing lots of experiments, then you need something that is very low key in that department. Even if that's just a textbook they read, they will learn more for doing that than not actually using something that doesn't work for you to teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I might look into SnapCircuits for your kids, especially the older one; I would get the more expensive set that has the teaching guides along with it. For an engineering sort, it seems like it would provide a ton of teaching material. Could your 9yo work through the animal sections of the Handbook of Nature Study? I am very non-sciencey myself. History any day, please! This year, science was a lot of natural exploration -- learning about how an ultrasound works, attending talks about frogs (and writing about those experiences), hiking in the woods, raising ladybugs. We did a few experiments. I do feel like my 11yo (and maybe my 8yo) needs a bit more, though, so we're going to try Mr. Q next year. It's all laid out for me, and I think they will like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Martha, thanks. I think you're spot on when you suggest doing it first and saving the subjects that come naturally to me till later if only b/c they're no-brainer. Thank you. Happypamama, funny that you mention it. My oldest LOVES SnapCircuits and has quite a few. He started playing with them around age 8 or 9 and may have gone as far as he can with them - although I should look into that to be sure. Okay, so with Mr Q, do you do experiments? Does he give you the curriculum? How do labs work? I don't know anything about Handbooks of Nature Study and I'm very happy to look for it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 My oldest LOVES SnapCircuits and has quite a few. He started playing with them around age 8 or 9 and may have gone as far as he can with them - although I should look into that to be sure. Does your oldest have the Snap Circuit 750R set? http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000IXMP6Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Honestly, science is one of those things that in the younger grades is about process, not a particular set of facts to be learned. Have a "science day" once a month where you do fun experiments (mine Van Cleave), and when a kid has a question about something science related while doing history or just staring into nowhere wondering why the sky is blue, let it be a jumping-off point for some research and investigation. Visit science-related museums regularly (once every month or two at least). Check your local arboretum, botanical gardens, library, 4-H, Scouts, etc. for classes and activities that tie to science. Watch a lot of Mythbusters and talk about the process and the scientific method and how they follow it (or how it could be tested more effectively--in theory). They're not going to be terribly "behind" in high school if science hasn't been formal prior to that. You haven't ruined them for anything, unless you've managed to completely destroy their natural curiosity and sense of wonder. All science does is turn that curiosity into a reasoned process for learning about the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Mr. Q has a day of reading (with some follow-up worksheets), then two days of experiments. At least that's how the chemistry one is set up. It's all done for you, down to the list of "gather this" for each day (and it looks to be pretty common household stuff too). The curriculum is all written out for you. All I will have to do each week is make sure we have the stuff for the experiments; otherwise, it's open the file and go. (It is large; between the teacher book and the student book, it's about 900 pages, so if you have a tablet or e-reader, that will help a lot.) I am actually really excited about it and think science will actually get done next year. :) Re: the SnapCircuits. I think they are supposed to teach a ton about electricity to teens, even, so you might see if you have the big 750-project set (the one another poster linked). I think the Handbook of Nature Study is available free online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I think the Handbook of Nature Study is available free online. http://ia700302.us.archive.org/5/items/handbookofnature002506mbp/handbookofnature002506mbp.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I have helped a number of people on the board develop a science plan with clear objectives. Advanced science for a dyslexic child Systematic unschooling for a student who dislikes most science programs Designing a program using only resources you have and adapting for travel opportunities Mixed ages for earth sci, chemistry, and physics. Reading focused Learning physics and chemistry under the umbrella of astronomy: post 15 Studying biology and earth science by way of gorillas and snakes post 16 Creating high school 'Science in Society' courses for non-STEM kids: posts 37 and 38 Weekly scientific unit studies incorporating both language arts and mathematics Read through them, as they will give you many ideas of questions to ask and goals to set. I am on school holidays for the next 10 days, so if you are interested, I have time to help you -- just let me know. Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I'm going to address your 12 yr old first. While I don't think that your 12 yr old's future in science is ruined, based on your post, neither do I think that suggesting other curriculum/approaches that require you to plan projects/labs and follow through faithfully is realistic. You sound completely overwhelmed and in panic mode and when that is occurring, jumping feet first into an overwhelming approach w/ heavy reliance upon you is probably not a good idea. At this pt, I would recommend a basic program that will get done daily that will review basic science concepts and expose him to the fundamentals that will assist him in succeeding in high school level science. My first suggestion would be Plato science. It is computer based, has video experiments, and has comprehension questions incorporated. Since you are in panic mode and shutting down, Plato would give you a chance to feel like he is getting solid exposure while you regroup and re-evaluate. https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/plato-middle-science/?c=1 What grade is he in? Is he a rising 7th or 8th grader? If he is a rising 7th grader, he could do life science and earth/astronomy in 7th and physical science in 8th. The courses are not intense or overwhelming and allow plenty of time for even supplementing with other materials. You could purchase a few of the Science Explorer books for him to read. They have "thin" individual titles (I'm not recommending the large textbook) like Astronomy, Inside Earth, Motion Forces and Energy, and Chemical Interactions. You should be able to buy those texts used for just a couple of dollars each. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_17?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=science+explorer+prentice+hall&sprefix=science+explorer+%2Caps%2C298&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ascience+explorer+prentice+hall If he is a rising 8th grader, I would just do the 3 Plato courses in a single grade (not hard to achieve if science is done for 30-45 mins daily for the school yr.) Most of all, don't let your fear and panic immobilze you. He will be fine. It is most definitely not too late to prepare him, but he really needs the rest of middle school to expose him to basics and provide him the framework he will be using in high school. As for your 9 yr old, I would start by simply implementing required science reading time daily. You can simply use library books on specific topics. A 9 yr old reading science 30-45 mins per day every day throughout elementary school will be solidly equipped for whatever you want to do in middle school. Once you feel like you have things at least somewhat under control, then start to read through options that you feel like you can realistically implement in your household. B/c not only will it be far better for your children to be doing something daily and learning while you are finding your feet, it will give you the peace of mind you need so that you can move forward and make decisions more securely vs. in panic. FWIW, we don't do projects or experiments formally at all until high school. I have managed to educate a family full of strong science students. It is ok to not be Ms. Frizzle and still have kids that understand science and have them develop a passion for it. Really. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I gave up on science programs marketed to homeschoolers. We weren't happy with them. I bought Holt Science and Technology: Life (a school textbook) for $5 on Amazon. Best year of science we've had. The text is informative and clear, there are minabs you can easily do at home (and I do mean easily) and the go.hrw.com website has free extras. There are also SciLinks for more free extras. Again, best year of science we've had. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 What about Supercharged Science - you basically let the kids go at it. I haven't used the online classes, we have the Silver level set, so there are teaching DVDs and materials. At least you know they would be building and learning stuff from a Rocket Scientist! :D The Plato stuff sounds good too! Mainly, I can't help a lot - but here is a :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie in CA Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I love this quote by 8: "It is ok to not be Ms. Frizzle and still have kids that understand science and have them develop a passion for it." I totally agree. Also, we have yet to find a Science Program we like. We have, however, always done Science in some form or another. The kids have simply read books. We have done experiments here and there. We have done numerous Science kit (none of them every were completed 100 %). The kids are okay. In fact they are great at Science. We are getting closer to highschool now. They are ready for 'real' Science which they'll complete at the Community College. I agree with 8. They will be fine just as long as they do something Sciencey every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Thanks so much, y'all! Mr. Q has a day of reading (with some follow-up worksheets), then two days of experiments. ... I am actually really excited about it and think science will actually get done next year. :) Re: the SnapCircuits. I think they are supposed to teach a ton about electricity to teens, even, so you might see if you have the big 750-project set (the one another poster linked). I've pulled up Mr. Q and will take a look at it. We don't have the 750R but we have the SC-750, the Car one and one other set. I guess they could be pulled back out for ... Physics? http://ia700302.us.a...re002506mbp.pdf Thank you for that link. I'm downloading it right now. :) I have helped a number of people on the board develop a science plan with clear objectives. Advanced science for a dyslexic child Systematic unschooling for a student who dislikes most science programs Designing a program using only resources you have and adapting for travel opportunities Mixed ages for earth sci, chemistry, and physics. Reading focused Learning physics and chemistry under the umbrella of astronomy: post 15 Studying biology and earth science by way of gorillas and snakes post 16 Creating high school 'Science in Society' courses for non-STEM kids: posts 37 and 38 Read through them, as they will give you many ideas of questions to ask and goals to set. I am on school holidays for the next 10 days, so if you are interested, I have time to help you -- just let me know. Ruth in NZ Thank you so much for responding, Ruth! I've read through several of those already but not all of them. I will look at the others, too, and give them some thought. I've been following your responses to others and I keep thinking "Eureka!" and then I'll read someone's criticism of a program and I start panicking again. You'd be a great private consultant. ;) My first suggestion would be Plato science. It is computer based, has video experiments, and has comprehension questions incorporated. Since you are in panic mode and shutting down, Plato would give you a chance to feel like he is getting solid exposure while you regroup and re-evaluate. https://www.homescho...le-science/?c=1 What grade is he in? Is he a rising 7th or 8th grader? If he is a rising 7th grader, he could do life science and earth/astronomy in 7th and physical science in 8th. The courses are not intense or overwhelming and allow plenty of time for even supplementing with other materials. You could purchase a few of the Science Explorer books for him to read. They have "thin" individual titles (I'm not recommending the large textbook) like Astronomy, Inside Earth, Motion Forces and Energy, and Chemical Interactions. You should be able to buy those texts used for just a couple of dollars each. http://www.amazon.co...r prentice hall FWIW, we don't do projects or experiments formally at all until high school. I have managed to educate a family full of strong science students. It is ok to not be Ms. Frizzle and still have kids that understand science and have them develop a passion for it. Really. ;) Plato looks interesting. I'll look into it. We don't have regular internet connection. (Too rural... yes, even with AT&T and too many trees for a satellite.) But it's my hope we will be connected one day. If it looks like a great program then I may have to schedule weekly trips to town for him to take a class. I actually think this might be something I will have to do for high school science as I don't want to be an obstacle in their path. And thanks for the words of encouragement. They really like science and, I think, yearn for it... I am trying to figure out a possible schedule that might let my husband help out so I don't feel so pressured. His background is not science but he would be very good at paying attention to the details of an experiment. I gave up on science programs marketed to homeschoolers. We weren't happy with them. I bought Holt Science and Technology: Life (a school textbook) for $5 on Amazon. Best year of science we've had. Thank you! I'll look at that, too. What about Supercharged Science - you basically let the kids go at it. I haven't used the online classes, we have the Silver level set, so there are teaching DVDs and materials. At least you know they would be building and learning stuff from a Rocket Scientist! :D The Plato stuff sounds good too! Mainly, I can't help a lot - but here is a :grouphug: Okay, so I don't know about Supercharged Science. Hmmmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Since so many of you have kindly offered help, I thought I'd be more specific. Biology - this has meant planting, maintaining and harvesting a garden, and they like to find bones around the property and piece them together. They have a bone collection. Ewww. Earth Sciences - we actually read about rocks last year and tried to classify them. Again, I just felt really like I was constantly saying, "Um, I don't know. What group do you think it goes in? Um, you tell me. Um, okay so you know more than I do now!" Astronomy - splurged on a good telescope and they love looking at constellations at night. They already know more about the solar system and constellations than I do. Physics - Nada unless you count the Snap Circuits and home projects. My son has pretty much built his own treehouse. He is designing his own separate house he wants to live in on property. He is way into tools and gadgets. He's taken over our food pantry with his collection of cardboard, duct tape, tools, pieces of wood, ropes, etc. Chemistry - ? They like to experiment with food and concoct funky foods - especially smoothies. He likes checking the oil and re-filling liquids in my car. He really wants to be paid to change the oil but it's a disposal problem. So, I consider him a young 12. That is, when I planned to put him in school, I would've held him back a year since he has a late summer birthday. So that would put him at the top of the 6th grade right now and going into 7th. He can also hang with the 7th grade going into 8th but I don't know where he'd measure. I try not to "measure" him too much since he's a perfectionist and is much more project-oriented than test-oriented. When I used to give him spelling tests, he panicked and cried. When I got rid of them, his spelling improved. I want to take 2 years to have him be completely prepared for high school level work beginning with TWTM shedule of Biology first. So, that gives me 2 years to squeeze in introductions to Physics, Chemistry, and Biology. I think I did a good enough job with Astronomy this year - mainly because he was self-motivated and learned a lot of it on his own. Earth Science, meh. It wouldn't hurt to add it later. So is there a program that can reasonably fit in these main subjects within 2 years and still have him prepared for high school work? I can probably address modifying it for my younger later. I *know* I couldn't take on 2 science subjects at once. Thank you all again for your thoughtful responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professormom Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 One addition to what 8fills said, it may ease your mind to let your kids direct their experiments, they are at the perfect ages for that now... And (bonus!) it will help them develop responsibility and independent learning. As long as you provide the schedule, the books and a lab sheet or set of questions re: process inputs and outcomes, etc., they can be responsible to just do the stuff. Be available to answer questions (and for safety;-) but let them gather supplies, set up their workspace and work it through. You will probably be pleasantly surprised in these middle years at how much they can do as a team... Without you (can I get an amen?!). Lol. Anyway, for the next few years, using a more independent approach might give you the breathing room you need, while fostering independent investigation and helping them to be more self-motivated. So go have a cup of coffee and let the kids light a fire... Of learning, of course... Unless you live in my house:-). Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Thanks, professormom! I think you're right about letting them gather materials and be in charge. I guess I've felt too responsible for them before and so we did almost nothing, but I like the idea of me providing the schedule and books but letting them do the work and impress me. I just hadn't thought of this as an option before! I could almost weep with relief. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professormom Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I am so glad! I know it was a huge relief to me too when I figured it out :tongue_smilie Now, I just have them tell me what they did or know and I add in what I think they might be missing through discussion:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professormom Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Btw, thanks so much, Ruth, for all of those links in one place! I have my reading for the evening ready for me now:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 You know I feel more relaxed already. I've been working from the bookstore today and walked by the section with Science kits (Thames, etc...) and actually felt something close to excitement instead of panic for the first time ever. I'm sure there's a good match out there for me and all is not lost with my boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 s So, that gives me 2 years to squeeze in introductions to Physics, Chemistry, and Biology. Very easy. I would suggest spending 7th grade doing life science and 8th doing physical science (which is typically physics and chemistry). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 You have gotten a bunch of wonderful advice on curricula to consider. And I am so glad, because that is not my forte. What I can do is help you see the big picture. So here are a bunch of questions in no particular order. Some will be easy to answer; others will take some soul searching. A science program will only work if it works for you as the teacher and him as the student. I am not passing any judgement with any of the questions, I just want to have a clear understanding of what you *can* do, not pie in the sky what you think you *should* do. Given your older is interested in a STEM career, I would first make a plan for him separately from any plans for your younger. Then, combine them when possible. If you try to plan for both simultaneously, you will get muddled and not do justice to either of them. So please try to answer these questions from the point of view of your 12 year old, and then I am sure I will have more. How do you see your role in his science education? Clearly, you are not going to teach him. But what level of involvement can you provide? Cheerleader? Shopper? Facilitator? Record keeper? Scheduler? Monitor? You definitely have a role to play and I think you need to define it. What transferable skills can you teach your child that will help him in science? Can you teach him research skills using history and then have him practice it with science questions? Can you teach him how to really read a question and answer what is actually asked? Can you teach him to outline a text/ take notes? Can you teach him how to study? etc. I definitely think you are underrating your ability to help him in science, and I think you need to think long and hard about what you can provide. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying 'I'm going to teach you how to outline using this history text because that is my true love, and now I want you to go try it on your science text because that is your true love.' What will you teach? Focus on what went well this past year, and learn from it. You said " I think I did a good enough job with Astronomy this year - mainly because he was self-motivated and learned a lot of it on his own." Why did it go well? What materials did he use? How did he learn? How were you involved? What did he actually need from you? How did he schedule his time? What output did he do? Think long and hard about this, because it absolutely should inform your middle school plan. How much time per week does your ds have to devote to science? Does he like to work to a daily or weekly schedule? How much oversight does your ds need? He seemed pretty motivated for astronomy. Do you expect the same level of involvement with all sciences? Or was it just astronomy because he loves it? How are his textbook reading skills? Can he interact with a textbook yet and really learn from one? How are his study skills? I know he does not like spelling quizzes (neither did my son), but can he actually learn the material required to do well on a test? I see that he has done a lot hands on, is there a certain type of hands on that he prefers? There is a difference between observing your world (stargazing, plant identification), vs getting a kit and following directions. Does he have a preference between these 2 different styles? Does he need hands on to make sense of what he reads? Does your son like science programs or does he prefer library reading? Do *you* have a preference for the materials he uses? Does his motivation vary depending on the types of materials he uses? Does he like documentaries and youtube science videos? Do you or your state need any output? Will you have any tests? Given that he likes projects, do you want to use science to teach him skills like making a presentation or writing a report? Or do you want to leave that for history and literature, and just focus on learning science content? Ok, that is all I can think of right now. Give it some thought and involve him in some of the questions if you think it appropriate. Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 As for your 9 yr old, I would start by simply implementing required science reading time daily. You can simply use library books on specific topics. A 9 yr old reading science 30-45 mins per day every day throughout elementary school will be solidly equipped for whatever you want to do in middle school. I completely agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 We live beyond the boonies, with no homeschool groups, and certainly no Science fairs. Us too! Well, okay, we're just in the boonies as we get mail daily. I've lived beyond the boonies and they only delivered every other day. ;) I'll add another vote for Holt Science & Tech. It's a secular, three series text-book based curriculum for 6-8, though I think 4th or 5th could probably keep up just fine, also. I've been really happy with it. It's a full-color, school-quality text with lots of charts, graphs, diagrams, etc. It comes with tests, quizzes, labs, extension activities, guiding reading work, etc. on a Resources CD when you get the Homeschool pack. We're just finishing up Earth Science, and will be doing Physical Science next year for 8th grade. And, for fun, I've thought about doing some of the Life Science this summer, since DD loves biology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Btw, thanks so much, Ruth, for all of those links in one place! I have my reading for the evening ready for me now:-) Just wrote up a new one: Weekly scientific unit studies incorporating both language arts and mathematics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Hey, we've been on the road so I haven't been able to write but I have been thinking about your questions and I had a great conversation with my son. How do you see your role in his science education? Clearly, you are not going to teach him. But what level of involvement can you provide? Cheerleader? Shopper? Facilitator? Record keeper? Scheduler? Monitor? You definitely have a role to play and I think you need to define it. I'd like to be in charge of Acquisitions, Scheduling, Facilitating. I want him to be in charge of Organizing and Recording. I hope to do this 2 late afternoons a week when his dad can be in charge of Monitoring (while I go for a run or write.) His dad is the Safety guy and very Detail-oriented. So, I think Science will be a big part of our family time next year. Which is what we want. I've got the other subjects covered earlier in the day. What transferable skills can you teach your child that will help him in science? Can you teach him research skills using history and then have him practice it with science questions? Can you teach him how to really read a question and answer what is actually asked? Can you teach him to outline a text/ take notes? Can you teach him how to study? etc. I definitely think you are underrating your ability to help him in science, and I think you need to think long and hard about what you can provide. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying 'I'm going to teach you how to outline using this history text because that is my true love, and now I want you to go try it on your science text because that is your true love.' What will you teach? I'm an English major so I can definitely handle researching and outlining. I also forget in my former life I did technical writing for an oil company so even if I can't quite wrap my head around all the content, I can definitely help him organize his thoughts and his writing. Thanks for asking these questions and making me think long and hard. Focus on what went well this past year, and learn from it. You said " I think I did a good enough job with Astronomy this year - mainly because he was self-motivated and learned a lot of it on his own." Why did it go well? What materials did he use? How did he learn? How were you involved? What did he actually need from you? How did he schedule his time? What output did he do? Think long and hard about this, because it absolutely should inform your middle school plan. From our long conversation yesterday, I discovered that he learned because I provided interesting books and told him he had to read x amount of pages. He may have moaned and groaned but he read it and has therefore taught himself how to identify constellations in the sky. I also think he thinks it's cool that he has outlearned his mom. So, we agreed that the only thing he needs from me is to provide interesting books, tools for lab work and to schedule the assignment, although the main thing he needs from is to initiate. I really do have to initiate the assignment but once initiated, he gets hooked pretty quickly and I can walk away. How much time per week does your ds have to devote to science? Does he like to work to a daily or weekly schedule? Weekly, for sure.How much oversight does your ds need? He seemed pretty motivated for astronomy. Do you expect the same level of involvement with all sciences? Or was it just astronomy because he loves it? Very little. Although I think a grown-up needs to be available, preferably my husband. :) He is very excited about studying chemistry and physics. As you suggested in another post, I've been leaving breadcrumbs and watching them percolate... to use a badly mixed metaphor.How are his textbook reading skills? Can he interact with a textbook yet and really learn from one? Yes, although he was a very late reader (10yo) but then went from about 2nd grade level to 7th within about 2 years. All his learning is this way. No baby steps. Just nothing (but I can tell everything is percolating) to full speed ahead. In other words, years of no output, only input, then tons of output all at once. (Handwriting, Reading, Math, Bible, Languages, etc.) It's maddening. Now he can open the Kingfisher and read it just fine though it's not his reading of choice. We have not segued into non-fiction reading very well. He prefers stories. How are his study skills? I know he does not like spelling quizzes (neither did my son), but can he actually learn the material required to do well on a test? I don't know about testing. When public school friends bring over copies of state exams for me, I've noticed he will perform at 100% if given all day, no timing, no pressure, no threats. If I time, or place pressure on him or treat it like it's Very Important, he crumbles. I'm hoping to ease him into testing beginning around 9th grade. But not yet. I see that he has done a lot hands on, is there a certain type of hands on that he prefers? There is a difference between observing your world (stargazing, plant identification), vs getting a kit and following directions. Does he have a preference between these 2 different styles? Does he need hands on to make sense of what he reads? Does your son like science programs or does he prefer library reading? Do *you* have a preference for the materials he uses? Does his motivation vary depending on the types of materials he uses? Does he like documentaries and youtube science videos? We get Netflix. He's not really into learning that way but will tolerate it. He probably does needs hands on to make sense of what he reads. I think if he was reading a science book, he'd insist on attempting a project or trying it out for himself. Doing is the way he processes what he has read. Library reading is what *I* prefer but my teaching/learning style is not his learning style. He and I have discussed this at length. He knows he has to take the reins if he wants to develop his passion in Design & Engineering. He is excited about being in charge, I think, with challenging good materials. So I think I have to let go of my learning style and go with his but it's easier said than done. I tend to not follow through as well. So he really has to be in charge and it really needs to be a Science experiment that he can put together and do on his own. And as many "real" science implements as possible. Does this make sense? Not just an assignment for assignment's sake. Do you or your state need any output? Will you have any tests? Given that he likes projects, do you want to use science to teach him skills like making a presentation or writing a report? Or do you want to leave that for history and literature, and just focus on learning science content? Ok, that is all I can think of right now. Give it some thought and involve him in some of the questions if you think it appropriate. Ruth in NZ No state outputs needed. No testing yet either. At this point, I don't want to require much writing with his projects. I think eventually he will want to present his experiments to us and I foresee him even making little videos of them but for now, I want to keep it simple at first: Here's an experiment. Let's see what you can do with it. That said, I have boxes of experiments languishing under the stairs, like making a rocket, etc. I think they required too much input from me to do them. But I think if they do not require input from me and they are age appropriate for him, science might actually happen! 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loftmama Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Ruth, I just want to say thanks again. Your questions remind me very much of the workshop I heard by SWB last August. She rattled off a number of questions and told us to all go home and write our answers down. I spent a full week writing and soul-searching and was quite surprised by what I discovered. I have also soul-searched and thought deeply about your questions and, again, have been surprised. I think I probably do have more skills than I realized and I think he has actually learned a thing or two and all is not lost, as I feared. I am beginning to be less overwhelmed by it and am beginning to see real possibility for science in our curriculum in the future. I think my dreams for my son may actually come to fruition. I think my own thoughts may have been my greatest barrier. Educating our children is such a great task, I scare and overwhelm myself sometimes. So thank you for asking me these questions and getting me out of the rut of negative thoughts in my head. Off to continue reading your links... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 As for your 9 yr old, I would start by simply implementing required science reading time daily. You can simply use library books on specific topics. A 9 yr old reading science 30-45 mins per day every day throughout elementary school will be solidly equipped for whatever you want to do in middle school. Thank you. I talked to him and this is perfect for his learning style. Preferably, we can read science books that correlate with his big brother's science subjects. He is happy to just have to read and that makes me happy! I think once we settle on our books, we will begin slowly (10 min of non-fiction a day) and work our way up to 30 minutes. I don't think I'll have him write yet but have him respond orally to questions about the reading and work on oral narrations. Very easy. I would suggest spending 7th grade doing life science and 8th doing physical science (which is typically physics and chemistry). Could we do Physics/Chemistry or Chemistry/Physics first followed by Life Science later. I think he's ready for Phys/Chem right now. Us too! Well, okay, we're just in the boonies as we get mail daily. I've lived beyond the boonies and they only delivered every other day. ;) I'll add another vote for Holt Science & Tech. It's a secular, three series text-book based curriculum for 6-8, though I think 4th or 5th could probably keep up just fine, also. I've been really happy with it. It's a full-color, school-quality text with lots of charts, graphs, diagrams, etc. It comes with tests, quizzes, labs, extension activities, guiding reading work, etc. on a Resources CD when you get the Homeschool pack. Haha, we still get our mail every day but the paper is always a day late! I wonder if they have a book that would work for my 9yo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Could we do Physics/Chemistry or Chemistry/Physics first followed by Life Science later. I think he's ready for Phys/Chem right now. Yes, you could switch them around, though I personally wouldn't. Why? B/c I would plan on doing alg based physics (assuming he is strong in math and completing alg in 8th??) in 9th, chem in 10th, bio in 11th, and advanced coursework in 12th. B/c I would want physics in 9th and chem in 10th, I would use 8th grade as the intro into the 9th/10th grade work since he hasn't had a strong science background. Life science tends to be a lower level and does not require any math and most bio courses require chem b/c they focus on biochem process. Physical science does typically incorporate some simple unit conversions, etc. I can't tell from your sig where he is in math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 8, great info! I was planning on him doing Physics in 12th, Chem in 11th, Earth/Sky - 10th and Bio - 9th per TWTM. But I don't want 12th grade to be the first time he sees a Physics curriculum. So I thought a 7th/8th grade intro might be appropriate. He is finishing up Saxon Math 7/6 this year and I was planning to transition him to Pre-Algebra (Saxon Alg 1/2) next year. I'm worried that by putting it off, I'll 1) lose the momentum of his current passion and 2) have lost the opportunity to have given him some sort of intro before an in-depth year. Background: I hated Biology, Science and labs in high school though but by being a good test-taker, I made straight As. I was very good at Math and actually tutored college Math while in high school. Nothing like physics was offered in our very rural high school so when I was in college, I encountered Physics for the first time. I wanted desperately to take it and love it and to understand it. So I took it for fun. I clepped out of all my Math classes so, being an English major, I had room to play around with my course load. It Kicked. My. Butt. (Pardon my French.) I didn't miss a class. I took copious notes. I met with the professor weekly in his office AND I hired a tutor. I couldn't do it and was forced to drop it. I felt like a personal failure. Since my son was wee, we have built tons of things together - Legos, of course, but played with Robots, the SnapCircuits, etc. but I have taken him as far as I can go. And I want him to go so much farther. (And I want to learn from him.) I want him to have a good year of Physics at the high school level, but I think he will need some intro first at the middle school level. That is why I'm leaning towards Chem/Physics. He asked me yesterday what Chem was and I mentioned the Elements. He asked what those were and I said H2O is water. He said, "oh like Kr is Krypton, Mg is Magnesium, Ar Argon, Au, Gold..." etc. I was shocked! Apparently between the Elements Song (I bought this CD, Brain Beats, at Christmas) and the Gray book, he has already been teaching them to himself. So I want to capitalize on his interest. Does that make sense? But I certainly don't want to jump the gun and give him Phys/Chem in 7th/8th grade if he won't be ready for it mathematically. I don't want him to have a bad experience like I did in college. ETA: But you've given me a lot to think about... Now I wonder if maybe I shouldn't put off Physics till 12th grade and should get him ready for it at the 9th grade as you suggest. I wonder why SWB saves it till 12th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 ETA: But you've given me a lot to think about... Now I wonder if maybe I shouldn't put off Physics till 12th grade and should get him ready for it at the 9th grade as you suggest. I wonder why SWB saves it till 12th? You do know that by 12th she expects them to have had physics 2 times before? The science is on a 4 year cycle just like history, with each level increasing in difficulty and objective. So a middle school physics wouldn't require the math of the high school level course, but then it should all come together in 12th. Otherwise, it sounds like you are on a good path!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 The main reason for the biology, chemistry, physics sequence is based on math. Science is dependent on math skills. Biology studied w/o chemistry is not going to be "on par" with modern biology studies at the high school level b/c today's biology is not ecosystem oriented but biochem on the cellular level. So, chem prior to biology makes sense. Physics influences chemistry. However, of all 3 sciences, physics requires the most math. So, math is the barrier preventing physics first unless a mostly conceptual physics course is taken. Simple trig operations (in addition to solid alg 1 skills) are all that are required for a standard alg-based physics course. (sin, cos, tan are all easy to learn quickly) Also, for most STEM majors, I would not recommend a yr spent on earth/sky studies. Unless they are planning on a major involving those subjects, I would opt for an advanced course in one of the main 3. FWIW, astronomy really requires basic physics, so physics before astronomy makes the most sense anyway. FWIW, for future science majors, I would make sure that the focus on math is as equally strong (or stronger) as science studies. I am unfamiliar with Saxon, so I am not sure if he would be able to do simple conversions or not for physical science in 7th. (by conversions, I mean something like converting 3 sq miles into X sq centimeters, etc.) (ETA: I should share that I don't really use textbooks with my kids until high school credit level courses. So what is actually "required" in an typical middle school text really isn't something that I am that familiar with. My older 2 used a physical science text way back when they were in 8th grade, but that was a long time ago and I really don't remember much. I do think I remember needing to do simple unit conversions, though. ;) Our older children are all very science oriented, so we have been through the high school process for STEM majors, so that part I am familiar with. (our oldest is a chemical engineer and our 11th grader wants to be an astrophysicists and will have 8 science credits by the end of this semester.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 8, okay, I get what you're saying. A solid year of physics after algebra makes sense. So any physics done at the middle school level is really just introductory stuff, mainly conceptual. Which makes me think of one book mentioned here: Conceptual Physics with its funny cartoons. I guess I was hoping there was a Physics course designed for middle school homeschoolers which would be more preparatory and less dependent on the advanced math skills. As you've explained, this is not so important at the middle school level so possibly I could be worried for no reason! As long as he's prepared for it at the high school level, as your children have been. At the middle school level, Math sounds like the most important thing for STEM kids. Okay, I think I can relax now. ;) Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 8, okay, I get what you're saying. A solid year of physics after algebra makes sense. So any physics done at the middle school level is really just introductory stuff, mainly conceptual. Which makes me think of one book mentioned here: Conceptual Physics with its funny cartoons. I guess I was hoping there was a Physics course designed for middle school homeschoolers which would be more preparatory and less dependent on the advanced math skills. As you've explained, this is not so important at the middle school level so possibly I could be worried for no reason! As long as he's prepared for it at the high school level, as your children have been. At the middle school level, Math sounds like the most important thing for STEM kids. Okay, I think I can relax now. ;) Thanks! I want to make sure that you are understanding me clearly, b/c I can't tell for sure. I think the science foundation prior to high school is very important. I don't want it to sound like I am dismissing it, b/c I am not. We don't use textbooks, but we take science very seriously in that my kids do science every single solitary day for 30-45 mins from third grade through 8th. Every day w/o exception. B/c they cover so much science, we just don't need textbooks. If I had a student that hadn't been doing comprehensive science, I would use a textbook in both 7th and 8th. Physical science is a middle school science, so the math is going to be low level. It should be easily accessible for most 8th graders. Whether it is accessible for a 7th grader is probably going to depend on the text, the math required, and the student's background in math. Math is going to be important whether in in middle school or high school or college. Solid math skills are going to enable success in science. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 FWIW, we don't do projects or experiments formally at all until high school. I have managed to educate a family full of strong science students. It is ok to not be Ms. Frizzle and still have kids that understand science and have them develop a passion for it. Really. ;) I love this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I'd like to be in charge of Acquisitions, Scheduling, Facilitating. I want him to be in charge of Organizing and Recording. I hope to do this 2 late afternoons a week when his dad can be in charge of Monitoring I'm an English major so I can definitely handle researching and outlining. .....I can definitely help him organize his thoughts and his writing. So, we agreed that the only thing he needs from me is to provide interesting books, tools for lab work and to schedule the assignment, although the main thing he needs from is to initiate. Wow! this is great. Doesn't it feel good to know that you have a very important role to play. I'm sure it also makes your ds feel supported while being given the responsibility and freedom to learn. Often I see people focusing on finding the perfect curriculum as a way of providing a successful science experirence, when in reality they need to do what you have just done - uncover what a great learning environment looks like in their particular family. Good going! I've been leaving breadcrumbs and watching them percolate... to use a badly mixed metaphor. :lol: This is really funny! Yes, although he was a very late reader (10yo) but then went from about 2nd grade level to 7th within about 2 years. All his learning is this way. No baby steps. Just nothing (but I can tell everything is percolating) to full speed ahead. In other words, years of no output, only input, then tons of output all at once. (Handwriting, Reading, Math, Bible, Languages, etc.) It's maddening. Now he can open the Kingfisher and read it just fine though it's not his reading of choice. We have not segued into non-fiction reading very well. He prefers stories. I'm not clear here. Can he read non-fiction? Can he read textbooks? Or is this a skill that you will spend the next 2 years developing? There are really 3 things that make a successful high school science experience IMHO: 1) Math ability, 2) textbook reading skill, 3) study skills. Middle school is the time to shore these things up. Honestly, content is secondary and just a way to practice the skills. I don't know about testing. When public school friends bring over copies of state exams for me, I've noticed he will perform at 100% if given all day, no timing, no pressure, no threats. If I time, or place pressure on him or treat it like it's Very Important, he crumbles. I'm hoping to ease him into testing beginning around 9th grade. But not yet. I can totally respect this - this is my son, exactly. If I were you I would tell him that you want to spend his middle school years developing his test-taking skills so he is fully ready by high school. Tell him that you will NOT be keeping any grades, and that he can take as long as he likes on the tests at first. I would suggest that he sets himself a goal of working incrementally faster each month, so that by the end of 8th grade he can take a standard 1 hour test in 1 hour and do well. Make it something that *he* wants to do. Set personal goals, make a graph, celebrate every success, focus on how to improve. Baby steps, you have time. We get Netflix. He's not really into learning that way but will tolerate it. skip it if he prefers reading. Every child is different. He probably does needs hands on to make sense of what he reads. I think if he was reading a science book, he'd insist on attempting a project or trying it out for himself. Doing is the way he processes what he has read. Library reading is what *I* prefer but my teaching/learning style is not his learning style. He and I have discussed this at length. He knows he has to take the reins if he wants to develop his passion in Design & Engineering. He is excited about being in charge, I think, with challenging good materials. So I think I have to let go of my learning style and go with his but it's easier said than done. I tend to not follow through as well. So he really has to be in charge and it really needs to be a Science experiment that he can put together and do on his own. And as many "real" science implements as possible. Does this make sense? Not just an assignment for assignment's sake. I'm not quite clear about a few things here. 1) hands on: You keep refering to his "projects". Does he like to answer his own questions and get his hands dirty investigating an idea he has? or are you saying that he likes working through a experiment book with instructions? This is critical to choosing the right curriculum. Investigations are self driven and often take longer than an hour. For example, he might be interested in what micro-organisms are in the water in a nearby ditch. He would get a sample, make some slides, use a microscope, realize he does not know how to identify the creatures, do some research on the internet, learn how to measure their size, draw some pictures or make a graph, and call it done. This could take 2 hours or 2 weeks depending on how engaged he becomes. In contrast, an experiment book will give him a 1 hour lab. It will have learning objectives, instructions, and often questions to answer or graphs to fill out. These are 2 very different types of hands on work, so talk to him about the difference and see what he wants. I have written extensively on the purpose of hands on work here: http://forums.welltr...-of-activities/ 2) Written materials: are you saying he want to use nonfiction books? or does he prefer textbooks? He could also do nonfiction in 7th grade and a textbook in 8th. It sounds like he would like you to do the research and pick the best materials rather than scrounging for himself, which I totally understand. The hive can definitely help you pick the right materials if you can clarify what exactly he wants. No state outputs needed. No testing yet either. At this point, I don't want to require much writing with his projects. Not a problem. High school science is not about writing papers. I think eventually he will want to present his experiments to us and I foresee him even making little videos of them but for now, I want to keep it simple at first: Here's an experiment. Let's see what you can do with it. That said, I have boxes of experiments languishing under the stairs, like making a rocket, etc. I think they required too much input from me to do them. But I think if they do not require input from me and they are age appropriate for him, science might actually happen! I think this is critical to choosing the right materials or the right time frame. Read my posts on the purpose of hands on and then talk to your son about what he wants given the framework I lay out in my posts. Then, we can sit down and really think about how to realistically make experimenting happen. Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Thank you, Ruth. I think there are 2 areas I need to clarify (non-fiction reading and hands-on activities) and 1 area I need to discuss with my son (types of projects). I'm going to give it some thought this evening and reply later tonight or in the morning. I will read the thread on hands-on activities so I can understand the varieties of projects and figure out his learning style. This bit is really great: If I were you I would tell him that you want to spend his middle school years developing his test-taking skills so he is fully ready by high school. Tell him that you will NOT be keeping any grades, and that he can take as long as he likes on the tests at first. I would suggest that he sets himself a goal of working incrementally faster each month, so that by the end of 8th grade he can take a standard 1 hour test in 1 hour and do well. Make it something that *he* wants to do. Set personal goals, make a graph, celebrate every success, focus on how to improve. Baby steps, you have time. Wow, I can totally do this! I would never have wrapped my head around teaching test-taking this way, but now that you've laid it out like that, I can totally do it. I know exactly what to do! I can already see my spreadsheet and everything. I wonder if I could make a similar chart/graph for textbook-reading. Thanks! Oh and thanks for the validation! I look forward to combining our family's skills this fall for a fun and educational curriculum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillymommy Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 I want to throw one more suggestion out. Lego Education for part of a physics curriculum. http://www.legoeducation.us/?domainredir=www.legoeducation.com I love biology. I'm a nurse. I love anatomy of all creatures, get excited about physiology of all living things, but physics bores me to tears. I grew tired of the physics book recommended by WTM, so when we got to simple machines, I bought a set from Lego and my kids had a blast! The curriculum is well planned, includes handouts for the kids to use as they work through the projects, info to prep me on what we're doing, & fun "experiments." The sets are pricey, but we found them well worth the investment. We spent 6 or 7 wks on simple machines & we'll finish the yr with the robotics set. With a builder in your family, this might be a great part to your physics plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 My 8th & 7th graders have worked through Rainbow science this year. They done it without any help from me. I wanted something to get them working through science in a systematic fashion, and I needed it to be complete, and I needed it to be doable without me. This fit the bill 100%. They've enjoyed it, too. Their science background included a hodgepodge of things, but most formal science was Chemistry because that's what I like. This is the only year that science has gotten done consistently, all year long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Ruth, 8, and everyone else who has helped me work through my frustration and fears re: Science, I have read everything I can, researched online, looked at books, read thread after thread after thread, soul-searched in my journal, put way too many items on my Amazon wishlist, and had several thoughtful discussions with my son. I've inventoried what I already own and put aside what I don't like. Sometimes I feel like I am all over the page. Your thoughts and advice have pushed me beyond my comfort zone. Usually once my head starts to ache from reading all the science stuff, I walk away, and try to just forget about it. I've worked up to the headache at least 2 or 3 times in the past week and I'm still working through it. Here's what I now think: Forget labs every week. Forget whizz-bang. I've got the dusty kits under the stairs and I don't want to add to them. We are enormous readers and there are hundreds of dollars worth of books I've put on my wishlist that I think we'd all really love and enjoy reading and discussing. I know this is a completely different tack from what I said earlier, but do you think it's possible to spend one semester exploring the elements (McHenry + Mastering the Periodic Table + Elements Vault) and do only 1 on-going lab? Lab/Experiment - I think the Usborne Book of Science Experiments will have some do-able (for me) demonstrations. I am hopeful that by reading through some of them he might come up with an idea of his own, that one idea might springboard to another idea... Is this pie in the sky thinking? Testing - I've thought about the testing component and have decided that I want to build his testing skills separately from the science curriculum. I'll have to figure this out but it doesn't need to be part of the science learning curve. Non-Fiction/Textbook Reading - I'd like to work on this, as well, and I wonder if reading through "The New Way Things Work" would qualify. Resources - The Elements by Gray (I own this already and like it.) To buy: Elements Vault; The Elements/McHenry; Mastering the Periodic Table To consider: Mad Science by Gray. Does anyone know what age group this is good for? It looks high school-ish. Videos - The Periodic Table Videos and anything from Netflix? (We don't have reliable internet and prefer Netflix for media.) Memory Work - From TWTM, understanding atoms, protons, electrons, etc. Re: elements, I think just being familiar with the Periodic Table and understanding it is good enough. I don't think it needs to be memorized. Okay, so what do you think? In previous posts, I talked about Physics also, but at this time, I think I need to take it one subject at a time. If this schedule works, I'll plan Physics/Physical Science for the Spring. If we love Chemistry and want more time with it, I'll plan Physics for the Fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Ruth, after reading the other threads and taking notes, I discovered a number of things which led me to my most recent post. 1. Hands -on activities: Self-Motivated learning (i.e. the ditch experiment) is the kind he does best. I don't think a kit of weekly demos is really his learning style. (Although I'm beginning to wonder how much of it is a lack of space and a reluctance to give up the dining room table.) He likes to investigate his own ideas. Thus, one semester experiment is preferable to the weekly experiment. 2. I like the idea of Systematic Reading and I think this would be good for him. I also think he's open to it and needs to develop his textbook reading skills. Would "The New Way Things Work" or Gray's "The Elements" work? If not, what would you or anyone else suggest? 3. Supplemental Reading - I really like the series, Scientist in the Field, and think both my boys would like it, too. I think the reading level might be a little bit advanced for my 9yo but I think he'd enjoy working up to it and I don't think it would take him long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Sillymommy, thanks for the Lego idea. That might be fun to add to a Physics semester since he's over-the-top bonkers about Legos. But I'll have to admit, when I showed him the page and worksheets, he became disheartened, as if it might take away his love for all things Legos. I'll have to give it some thought. I wish there was a way to see and touch it up close. He's had the Robotics stuff on his gift list for at least 3 years in a row... (Legos never grow dusty in this house.) JudoMom, I like what I'm reading about Rainbow Science and was all prepared to just buy the whole shebang just so I could stop thinking about Science. But now I'm re-thinking everything. Because of the huge stack of languishing kits under the stairs... I wonder if a real classroom with shelves and tables for all those kits might help. How much of it is that we don't like kits? And how much of it is avoiding stuff falling on us as we try to dig them out, dust them off and see if we have all the parts? Still so much to consider. I must sound like a basket case. Okay, off to corral my kids and then a run to sort my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Because of the huge stack of languishing kits under the stairs... I wonder if a real classroom with shelves and tables for all those kits might help. How much of it is that we don't like kits? And how much of it is avoiding stuff falling on us as we try to dig them out, dust them off and see if we have all the parts? How about let your kids do a spring cleaning of the kits. Then they each pick one kit that they would like to work on. You can do that every week if you want. I have shelving for my board games but my kids still need to spring clean now and then or they forget what they own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Wow, you are doing great in coming up with a realistic plan that is tailored to your ds! This is going to lead to a fantastic year! I'm going to lay out the plan so far because it helps me see the big picture and uncover holes. Obviously, I do not know everything in your head, so please change or adjust anything that I got wrong or that when put into the whole does not seem to fit. Goals for 7th and 8th grade Content To obtain a broad overview of the fields of chemistry, physics, and biology. General Skills To improve reading skills with the goal of being comfortable with a textbook by the end of 8th grade. This will include the ability to interpret graphs and diagrams. To improve organization skills, memory skills, presentation skills, record keeping skills, independence, and the ability to keep to a schedule. To continue to develop math skills 'Lab' skills To encourage independent investigation of own ideas, including coming up with a question, experimental design, collecting data, keeping a lab notebook, making tables/graphs/diagrams, drawing conclusions, and making a presentation. (possibly writing a report in 8th grade) Schedule 2 afternoons per week with Dad acting as Monitor Output Lab notebook Presentation of investigation Record of Learning: books read, documentaries/youtube videos watched, experiments/demonstrations/investigations completed. I would also suggest a list of questions that he wants to research, and have him tick them off when he finds his answers Assessment Informal. DH assesses understanding through informal discussion and by observing questions being asked. Also informally assess ability to keep lab notebook and record of learning, and informally assess presentation. Assessment informs what additional skills need to be taught and what material needs to be reviewed. I think that the above is looking really good! Now you just need to focus in on the specific plan for the first unit. First Unit: Chemistry Goals Content: Periodic table, bonding, basic reactions, industrial uses (all in McHenry's curriculum) General Skills This is where I think you want to do some thinking, because this is the stuff that you will be teaching rather than content. Given that you have an end goal in 2 years, IMHO you should break each skill up into pieces to focus on in each unit. Either incrementally improve each skill during each unit, or have a focus on 2 skills during each unit. But given that this is what you will be teaching, you should lay out a plan. Reading skills – I have written a very long post about this that I think you have already read. I would sit with him now and evaluate his level and what he needs to work on. Can he read the graphs? Can he interpret the text? Does he know when he does not understand something and spend the time to go back over it? Etc Organization skills – What exactly do you want him to organize? His time, his papers, etc? And how can you help him improve these skills? Memory skills – teach him some tricks and check on his progress Presentation skills – Content is not overwhelming? cue cards? Memory? Eye contact? Speed? Ability to answer questions? Etc Record keep skills – help him set up the notebook and then put maintanence into the schedule Independence – how will you encourage this? The ability to keep to a schedule - If you have any ideas, please pass them my way, because my ds is terrible at this. Lab Skills Coming up with a question – this will simply need encouragement and enthusiasm on your part and the willingness to listen. He should be able to look through books and the internet to come up with something. Experimental design – does he know about replications and controls? Objectivity? etc Collecting data – does he know how to make an effective table? Keeping a lab notebook – organized, tidy, complete Making tables/graphs/diagrams – has he learned these skills in math yet, or do you need to teach him? Drawing conclusions – your dh might want to guide him through this process Making a presentation – how are his presentation skills? Does he know how to make visual aids? You can also use this time to do layout and computer skills. Does he know how to narrow down something big and only discuss the most important parts? Schedule You have said that he works very well to a schedule, so this is your next project! You need to schedule the curriculum, memory work, book reading, documentaries, project pieces, and presentation. Resources Curriculum The Elements by McHenry If he flies through The Elements, you can also buy Carbon Chemistry Books The Elements by Gray Elements Vault Mastering the Periodic Table (this looks interesting, but I know nothing about it) The Mystery of the Periodic Table? (this is a really short and interesting history of the discovery of all the elements starting with prehistory.) Text for developing advanced reading skills How Things Work – this is one of the best books I have every seen that will teach advanced reading skills. However, it is physics not chemistry. But because it might take quite some time to get through, you could use it during both chemistry and physics if you want. But you can also use the list of books above to teach advanced reading skill, as long as he reads the books systematically and intensively. Videos Periodic Table of Videos Chemistry: A volatile history (BBC) Youtube to help visualize all reactions - fun and very helpful Investigation resources To be determined. I am not convinced that you have found the best stuff yet. Chemistry is a bit tricky to investigate as a student. Most chemistry labs are of the cook book variety (very specific instructions and clear expected outcomes) and it is really hard to find a book that allows for the enjoyment of figuring it out on your own. But I have found one lab in particular that is absolutely excellent – Creating the best silly putty. Most kids like silly putty and figuring out the 'best' silly putty allows them to experiment with bounce, stretch, 'feel' etc. But what is awesome about this investigation is that a student can actually act like a chemist and mix different quantities of chemicals and change the nature of the product. All you need is corn starch, borax, and different types of glue (elmers, other white glue, blue glue). Different ratios of each and different types of glue will totally change your silly putty. You can use a bit of food coloring to keep track of everything. And because you are varying 3 different variables the results are complex and require a lot of thought and a lot of graphs! We just looked up the basic recipe on the internet and went from there. The other kind of books that will help with project ideas are the 'science fair project' books. “Science fair†is just a code word for ideas that are more open ended and able to be expanded. You definitely do NOT have to make it a science fair project. A lot of 'experiment' books are really just 20 minute demonstrations that are difficult to adapt into a larger project. So keep that in mind if you want to buy a book for some ideas. One of the books in my libray that I liked is: Science Fair Projects: Chemistry Ok, that is it for me for now. Let me know where you get to. You are doing great! Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Sillymommy, thanks for the Lego idea. That might be fun to add to a Physics semester since he's over-the-top bonkers about Legos. But I'll have to admit, when I showed him the page and worksheets, he became disheartened, as if it might take away his love for all things Legos. I'll have to give it some thought. I wish there was a way to see and touch it up close. He's had the Robotics stuff on his gift list for at least 3 years in a row... (Legos never grow dusty in this house.) You might look at the K'nex kit instead, that way it is the same building type of principle, but separated from the Legos. I think my kids would survive doing the legos for simple machines, but the legos might not stay in the kit..... http://www.knex.com/Educators/sec_phys_science2.php We own them, and they will get used this school year finally - and part of that is because I now have a spot for them to get them out and build. I'm personally excited about it - I want to build bridges! (we have a myriad of kits because my mom bought the display at the convention) It is great to see that you have worked this all out so far - I'm loving you sharing your whole thought process, thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 You might look at the K'nex kit instead, that way it is the same building type of principle, but separated from the Legos. K'nex have building blocks with some of their sets that perfectly fit Legos. Not only are K'nex fun on their own, but then you can merge your K'nex AND Legos and Nirvana is soon to follow. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 K'nex have building blocks with some of their sets that perfectly fit Legos. Not only are K'nex fun on their own, but then you can merge your K'nex AND Legos and Nirvana is soon to follow. ;) We have some of those pieces.... they have been swallowed in the room... LOL!! Luckily (?) the k'nex education kits had their own spot and didn't get swallowed up. I am lusting for the K'nex Energy, Motion and Aeronautics kit though. ACK. http://www.knex.com/Shop/product.php?productid=17554 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 I am just awestruck at how well this is coming together. There is no way I could've seen it coming together and there is NO WAY I could've done this on my own! Ruth - I. Love. The. Goals. I. Love. Them! I am so excited to start. Arcadia, when you first suggested spring cleaning the projects, I just shook my head. No way. I can't give up the little bit of dining table we have left. No. No. NO. But then I started thinking and talking to my husband about the space problem and told him I was beginning to wonder if the Science Problem is me or space. After talking about the space aspect, he suggested we convert the laundry room/tool room to laundry room (with partition) and school room/lab space. It's quite large and has just become a junk room you wade through to get to the washing machine. Once he said that, it was revelatory. We could then pull out those kits like Arcadia suggested, set them up where we can see them, and leave them out. He can finally have ongoing projects that aren't in the middle of the dining room. It was just a transformative revelation. My husband is off to see the egg man right now about hiring him to help out - next week! The projects have plenty of learning potential, both with chemistry and physics. So I actually don't think I need to spend a bunch of money on kits! Since we have stuff, just not space, it's a much better use of our money to spend money on converting the laundry room, which - bonus has plumbing for sinks/hot water/cold water, etc! Also, Erin and TraceySFl, in part of all the buried treasure I recall stashing boxes of K'nex from an older cousin when he went off to college. I don't know what's there but just pulling it out will be a start. And I LOVE the links for K'Nex learning. I had no idea they existed! Thank you! Lastly, and I would never have realized this prior to all this soul-searching, setting up the lab and giving my independence would allow me to (finally?) focus on my younger son's passions. Sigh. He's such a good kid and a motivated self-learner, I hadn't even considered I might be neglecting him. Regardless, I look forward to focusing on his needs more in the future once my 12yo's set up with his lab. Even though I tend to "overthink" everything, there is NO WAY I could've figured this out on my own. I just had too many mental blocks about science in my way. Thank you all so, so, so, so much! :hurray: :thumbup: :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Yahoooo!!!! And that rocks you have a spot to convert - I'm guessing you will see some great things come out of that space. Seriously, my kids made the most HORRID faces when I suggested if they didn't get the other spot cleaned up for a workspace, they would have to give up their new project space! One thing I am loving is having standing height tables. We have tall seats from Ikea, but the standing height for the kids (they are 2x4 expedite height on the 2 side obviously) is going to be a huge benefit. The K'nex educational kits have some great stuff in them they don't let you download - whole lessons, and then the lesson plans have forms and everything if you want them. I was going thru the binder a couple of weeks ago and reminded myself I really didn't have to BUY anything else - we have all this to use (someone remind me of that ok???? LOL!). I'm excited for you guys - and hey, maybe we can get a picture of the lab/project space when it is done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftmama Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Wow, you are doing great in coming up with a realistic plan that is tailored to your ds! This is going to lead to a fantastic year! It is going to be fantastic! Goals for 7th and 8th grade - Love all of this, especially the "output" suggestions: OutputLab notebook Presentation of investigation Record of Learning: books read, documentaries/youtube videos watched, experiments/demonstrations/investigations completed. I would also suggest a list of questions that he wants to research, and have him tick them off when he finds his answers Yes! I hadn't wrapped my head around managing output, but this will definitely work! Check. First Unit: Chemistry Goals Content: Periodic table, bonding, basic reactions, industrial uses (all in McHenry's curriculum) General Skills This is where I think you want to do some thinking, because this is the stuff that you will be teaching rather than content. Given that you have an end goal in 2 years, IMHO you should break each skill up into pieces to focus on in each unit. Either incrementally improve each skill during each unit, or have a focus on 2 skills during each unit. But given that this is what you will be teaching, you should lay out a plan. Reading Skills - I've read the other posts. My son can definitely read graphs and interpret texts, etc. I think he's not as far behind as I feared. Organization Skills, Record Keeping Skills, Independence - I think this will start coming together once he's in his own established school space. In fact, I think it will be as if he's been bottled up and will just explode. He will turn 13 this summer and I really think the timing is perfect. The teacher in me knows what I'm doing now: dry erase boards, big calendars, clocks, index cards, scheduling, maintaining, challenging, motivating... Presentation skills - I debated in college so I'm already working on that one! The ability to keep to a schedule - If you have any ideas, please pass them my way, because my ds is terrible at this. I kinda think my son might develop this on his own. He's terribly distractable and I our kitchen/dining room is always chaotic and I think he unconsciously yearns for the space. I've seen this happen before when a homeschool friend I know with very similar learning styles and personality transformed around this age to all of a sudden becoming the scheduler and the organizer. This remains to be seen, of course... But I think he's actually so disorganized that I think he's personally irritated with himself. So, again...the timing/space/age may all be just right... Lab Skills Yes to all of it! I can definitely handle teaching him what he doesn't already know here. I actually think he will come to me wanting these skills. CurriculumThe Elements by McHenry If he flies through The Elements, you can also buy Carbon Chemistry Thanks - didn't know about that one. BooksThe Elements by Gray Elements Vault Mastering the Periodic Table (this looks interesting, but I know nothing about it) The Mystery of the Periodic Table? (this is a really short and interesting history of the discovery of all the elements starting with prehistory.) {Squeal} :blush5: I hadn't heard of this. The Mystery... is exactly the kind of book he was trying to explain to me that he likes when we talked about non-fiction reading. VideosPeriodic Table of Videos Chemistry: A volatile history (BBC) Youtube to help visualize all reactions - fun and very helpful Great - didn't know about the BBC doc. Investigation resourcesTo be determined. I am not convinced that you have found the best stuff yet. Agreed. But I absolutely love the silly putty investigation. I know he and his brother will love this - especially since I banned silly putty about 5 years ago when it became inextricably integrated into the carpet of our minivan. I'll look into the Science Fair Projects. Okay, so I'm printing the suggestions you made. Now, what how much do I owe you? :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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