How do I remediate?

[Mom-2-7]

My son is just finishing up 5th grade. He has about a 3rd grade reading level and a 2nd / 3rd grade comprehension. For example:

 

He cannot read and understand his Apologia Astronomy book.

He cannot read and understand Mystery of History.

 

When I read to him, he understands.

 

He does ok in other subjects. He's a little behind in math - maybe a half year. But he is a very young 5th grader.

 

He does well in Language Arts - grammar, sentence structure and the like. Not so well when it comes to writing. Seems as though he cannot translate the things he learned into real life application.

 

He does have a speech issue but no known learning learning disabilities.

 

I want to work with him over summer break but not sure where to start or what resources to use. He may need to go back to phonics but I don't want to make him feel dumb, Kwim?

 

Any ideas? Thanks.

[ElizabethB]

Several!

 

My phonics lessons, work through the things on my how to tutor page.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

 

My phonics lessons are designed for 2nd grade to adult, very boring, very effective, no baby stuff there, no fluff. They use the book of Romans, which I am guessing you will be fine with if you use Apologia.

 

Also, my remedial student who has apraxia of speech does well with diacritically marked prints. My phonics lessons use marked print, the 1908 Webster's Speller uses a marked print. The 1879 McGuffey readers also use a marked print. Have him take the NRRF reading grade level test, part 2, the start him on the grade level 1879 McGuffey where he first missed at least one word. For example, missed no words on 1st grade level, missed 2 words on 2nd grade level, start with 2nd grade McGuffey. The readers you want have blue and orange covers. They are also free online from Gutenberg Press in PDF format if you want to try them out before buying.

[PeterPan]

Not to blow you off, but was your conclusion on his reading level based on those books or standardized testing? Those are NOT the two books I'd pick to assess reading level. ;) MOH is meant for junior high when used that way. The Apologia elementary books are meant to be read alouds. Only advanced students would find it comfortable to read them that way.

 

Much better would be to get the McCall Crabbs books for reading comprehension (they give actual grade levels) or do some standardized testing. I *think* maybe the Woodcock Johnson (WJIII) has an optional decoding component. A psych can give the CTOPP (test of phonological processing). You definitely want objective evidence, not just comparing him to what people do on the boards.

 

It's very common to have writing problems with boys. Nuts, it's common to have writing problems in general. You mentioned speech. Do you know exactly what it is? Sometimes when you get kids who are still having mysterious speech problems at that age, it was unidentified apraxia, which is actually motor control, not a developmental delay. Responds to a different therapy more aimed at motor control. Anyways, there are tests the SLP can do that look at how he organizes language in his brain. I'm not up on all the terms, I just watch what they do with my ds. For instance there's "lexicon" which involves how the brain stores words in file folders. If his vocabulary his high (which they can also test) but the words aren't easy to access in the brain, it really slows down that process of retrieval and getting just the right word. So then you're trying to figure out if it's a *language* issue. If he's continuing to have speech problems at that age, I would not assume the two problems are not connected.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't let it go on too long. It really depends on the severity we're talking here, but these are precisely the kinds of things a good psych eval can help you sort out. It gives you a lot of information to work with, and sometimes it leads to explanations you weren't anticipating. Have you talked with his SLP to see what tests she can run? They can do way more than just articulation.

 

For the remediating, well first you want to back up and know what's going on. How did he learn to read? With an OG-based program or something else? If it wasn't OG-based, then you want to go back and check some basics like whether he hears the sounds correctly. If there's a hole there, you back up. If there's not, then you can move forward. SWR is a fabulous tool for this kind of situation, because it's mature, not babyish, and will allow you to give placement tests and move him forward quickly.

 

Takes a while to get into a psych. You might just start looking into it. I ABSOLUTELY plan to test my ds in a few years. I don't even have to blink an eye. There's an extremely strong correlation between his speech problems and dyslexia, and I have NO need to teach without information. I've done that one time, and it's for the birds. If the SLP can get you some expressive language tests or phonological processing tests, that will be awesome. Some will even check working memory as it relates to expressive language. These things are all interconnected. You're going to make some progress with whatever you choose, yes, but it's SO much better once you get information and know what's going on. 5th grade is that dividing line where you start asking for help. Even SWB says that in her convention speeches now.

[Mom-2-7]

Not to blow you off, but was your conclusion on his reading level based on those books or standardized testing? Those are NOT the two books I'd pick to assess reading level. ;) MOH is meant for junior high when used that way. The Apologia elementary books are meant to be read alouds. Only advanced students would find it comfortable to read them that way.

 

I was sure that I read on Apologia's website that the elementary books are written at a 4th grade level. But I was just over there and can't find it again. They do seem to be a lower level though. I didn't use those books as a measurement though. I found a free assessment site (forgot the name though). We administered the test earlier this year and he placed solidly in 3rd grade. Additionally, he was doing 3rd grade Reading Comprehension through CLE this year and struggled. He did improve but struggled all the way through.

 

Much better would be to get the McCall Crabbs books for reading comprehension (they give actual grade levels) or do some standardized testing. I *think* maybe the Woodcock Johnson (WJIII) has an optional decoding component. A psych can give the CTOPP (test of phonological processing). You definitely want objective evidence, not just comparing him to what people do on the boards.

 

It's very common to have writing problems with boys. Nuts, it's common to have writing problems in general. You mentioned speech. Do you know exactly what it is? Sometimes when you get kids who are still having mysterious speech problems at that age, it was unidentified apraxia, which is actually motor control, not a developmental delay. Responds to a different therapy more aimed at motor control. Anyways, there are tests the SLP can do that look at how he organizes language in his brain. I'm not up on all the terms, I just watch what they do with my ds. For instance there's "lexicon" which involves how the brain stores words in file folders. If his vocabulary his high (which they can also test) but the words aren't easy to access in the brain, it really slows down that process of retrieval and getting just the right word. So then you're trying to figure out if it's a *language* issue. If he's continuing to have speech problems at that age, I would not assume the two problems are not connected.

 

This is interesting. He was in speech for a few years when he was 5 and 6. Then his therapist moved away and I thought he would be fine. He still can't make the R sound and sounds like he's got mush in his mouth often times. I had attributed that to spacers he has in his mouth where he had a few molars pulled. I think that's when the mushmouth began. But his speech and reading is also peppered with "um" and "what do you call it". It really seems as though the information is going into his brain faster than he can process it and send it back out.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't let it go on too long. It really depends on the severity we're talking here, but these are precisely the kinds of things a good psych eval can help you sort out. It gives you a lot of information to work with, and sometimes it leads to explanations you weren't anticipating. Have you talked with his SLP to see what tests she can run? They can do way more than just articulation.

 

So, where do we go for help? SLP or Neuropsych? Guess I need to find out if my insurance will cover.

 

For the remediating, well first you want to back up and know what's going on. How did he learn to read? With an OG-based program or something else? If it wasn't OG-based, then you want to go back and check some basics like whether he hears the sounds correctly. If there's a hole there, you back up. If there's not, then you can move forward. SWR is a fabulous tool for this kind of situation, because it's mature, not babyish, and will allow you to give placement tests and move him forward quickly.

 

He learned using Abeka and Explode the Code primarily. Not sure if thats OG or not. Probably not. SWR. Is that Spell to Read and Write?

 

Takes a while to get into a psych. You might just start looking into it. I ABSOLUTELY plan to test my ds in a few years. I don't even have to blink an eye. There's an extremely strong correlation between his speech problems and dyslexia, and I have NO need to teach without information. I've done that one time, and it's for the birds. If the SLP can get you some expressive language tests or phonological processing tests, that will be awesome. Some will even check working memory as it relates to expressive language. These things are all interconnected. You're going to make some progress with whatever you choose, yes, but it's SO much better once you get information and know what's going on. 5th grade is that dividing line where you start asking for help. Even SWB says that in her convention speeches now.

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond so thoroughly

Your phonics program looks great! I don't think he'll fight that. He's so worried about being labeled as dumb. I will also look into the McGuffey spellers you recommended.

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

You can come to the SN board and pick the ladies' brains there. I would think if he's still having speech problems, you want to get back into speech. A good SLP can tell you if there is low oral tone (mush mouth) contributing. (Actually a ped can check oral tone too.) Just depends on what's going on. Never hurts to read about apraxia. If you're going through insurance, you usually need referrals, which means you start with the ped.