Night Elf Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Dd15 knows a girl at school who just lost her father. She said it was obvious the girl was going through something stressful but she didn't know what it was. Then she was absent from school yesterday, so the teacher announced to the class that the girl's dad died. Dd15 and a friend were really upset that this teacher would share such private information. She's upset the girl is going to come back and be mad that the whole class knows, possibly making her grief be even worse. I have no idea if the teacher overstepped her bounds. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixeldog Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I don't think the teacher overstepped her bounds. We live our days in circles of *relationships* and school can be one of those circles. I should think that her grief can better be comforted by sensitive and caring individuals....showing her that school can be more than just a vacume of academia. I hope that DD15 and friend not only understand that they can make a big difference in helping the girl as she copes, but that they can make a difference in how they influence others to help her, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I agree with Nancy. I don't think the teacher overstepped her bounds. Perhaps the family asked the teacher to let the kids know. I think more kids will reach out to her/be understanding knowing what has happened (rather than if they didn't know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 That's perfectly legitimate information to share within a school community, especially with teens of that age. Maybe a kind word/note from classmates is just what she needs right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 True. I did suggest that people offering sympathy lets a grieving person know others care but for some reason my dd just feels grieving is private. That's strange considering we went through something similar last month. One of her good friends lost a teen friend in an auto accident. I told my dd to offer her condolences and offer to listen if the girl wanted to talk. And dd was surprised she did talk. She wanted to talk about how great her friend was and how missed he would be. I think a huge part of the problem is that my dd cannot relate to these situations. She's never had to deal with a personal loss before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 is your daughter an introvert? one of the things myers-briggs talks about is how introverts will consider things personal and private that extroverts share naturally. it can be a source of contention in marriages, for example, if one spouse is sharing something they never in a million years would mind people knowing, only to discover that their spouse feels betrayed by having "personal" things shared, even if to someone else they aren't that personal. if information about the funeral was published in a paper, it may help your daughter to know that means the family chose to let people know, and that the teacher wasn't telling a "secret". :grouphug: ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I would have been mortified if a teacher had done that to me in high school, so unless the parent and teen wanted it told, it would be inappropriate IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I don't believe the teacher overstepped boundaries. In fact, the teacher/school might have been requested by the family to make the announcement. It is very rough to come back to school or work or ANYWHERE after such a loss only to have to explain to everyone what happened to cause one's absence. When I was in college my brother died in a plane crash. After 2 weeks' absence (Dad in hospital, police investigation, funeral in one state, burial in another -- issue after issue after issue) I came back to school. My adviser had notified my professors, but very few of my classmates knew (only my best friend and our lab mates, whom she told). One class on religions required a short essay on symbology (to be read at my first class period back), and mine ended up being on the lack of useful symbols for me to show unsuspecting people that I was grieving a loss of family. Instead of reading our essays in our groups the prof decided we would all read them in front of the entire class (some groups, though not mine, were NOT working with each other). When my time came I couldn't get any words out -- I threw my essay at a group-mate and told her to read it, and ran out of the classroom. A girl from another group followed me out and sat with me while I bawled, and my friend from my group read my paper. The entire class was blind-sided with the description of some very raw grief. When I had composed myself I explained what my essay was on to the girl who sat with me, since she didn't hear my essay being read. We then went back to class, where I received condolences, hugs from my group, and the courtesy of getting on with class. Everyone in class worked a bit differently after that day, but good discussions about grief and the need for normalcy ensued. I can say from direct experience that having some people already aware and sympathetic when one returns can be very helpful. Explaining is VERY hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I don't believe the teacher overstepped boundaries. In fact, the teacher/school might have been requested by the family to make the announcement. It is very rough to come back to school or work or ANYWHERE after such a loss only to have to explain to everyone what happened to cause one's absence. When I was in college my brother died in a plane crash. After 2 weeks' absence (Dad in hospital, police investigation, funeral in one state, burial in another -- issue after issue after issue) I came back to school. My adviser had notified my professors, but very few of my classmates knew (only my best friend and our lab mates, whom she told). One class on religions required a short essay on symbology (to be read at my first class period back), and mine ended up being on the lack of useful symbols for me to show unsuspecting people that I was grieving a loss of family. Instead of reading our essays in our groups the prof decided we would all read them in front of the entire class (some groups, though not mine, were NOT working with each other). When my time came I couldn't get any words out -- I threw my essay at a group-mate and told her to read it, and ran out of the classroom. A girl from another group followed me out and sat with me while I bawled, and my friend from my group read my paper. The entire class was blind-sided with the description of some very raw grief. When I had composed myself I explained what my essay was on to the girl who sat with me, since she didn't hear my essay being read. We then went back to class, where I received condolences, hugs from my group, and the courtesy of getting on with class. Everyone in class worked a bit differently after that day, but good discussions about grief and the need for normalcy ensued. I can say from direct experience that having some people already aware and sympathetic when one returns can be very helpful. Explaining is VERY hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I don't think she overstepped her boundaries. Around here though, when death affects students, counselors are the ones to break the news to classrooms and also makes follow up appointments with anyone that may be affected in any way. I'm sorry your daughter was hurt by this. I have one that is sensitive also and it's best when tough news comes from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I can say from direct experience that having some people already aware and sympathetic when one returns can be very helpful. Explaining is VERY hard. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um_2_4 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Yes explaining can be hard, for me it was my college classes. Professors and classmates were at my dad's viewing. It was a small school and our dept was close, so they all knew before I returned. It helped not having to answer questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 my father died when I was 12. My grandmother was of the mind you shared everything with everyone (she loved attention and was very manipulative about playing the victim.) therefore, I didn't say ANYTHING to ANYONE. however, I did still breakdown in class and struggled to even be "normal" - and that invited terrible treatment from other students. I think this teacher could have worded things better, but her heart was in the right place. I also think letting other students know there is real reason why this girl may break down in tears at odd times is doing her a favor. (even if she doesn't recognize it now.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquility7 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 is your daughter an introvert? one of the things myers-briggs talks about is how introverts will consider things personal and private that extroverts share naturally. :iagree: I am very introverted, do not like to be the center of attention AT ALL, and would be intensely uncomfortable if I had to deal with a tragedy "in public". That said, I think it was probably wise of the teacher to share the information. I wouldn't have liked it at all if I were the student, but it is appropriate. The fact of her father dying is not all that private, imho - it is her grief and struggle with it that is private. To share the fact of the death with the class is not overstepping any boundaries. OTOH, if the teacher said that the student was out of school because she was too sad to come and gave details about that sadness and grief and how the student is dealing with it - that would be totally wrong. As I've gotten older I've realized how different I am from most others in this respect. When something bad happens in my life, I do not want to talk to others about it. I do not even want to be asked about it. I work through it inside my own heart. It is a struggle, because it can come off as distant or unfriendly or uncaring, particularly when I assume others are like me, and they aren't. My best friend really likes and maybe even needs to talk about struggles she is having... but I have to remember that she actually *wants* me to ask her about them. When I don't, she probably thinks I don't care. And yet when she asks me, I might feel violated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 My dad died when I was 10 and the teacher told the class while I was out of school. I was glad because they probably would have found out anyway from their parents. I am an introvert and I would not like to tell people over and over why I was absent. I remember feeling a little ashamed because I felt different (because he had died and I didn't think anyone else had a parent who'd died), but not because the teacher shared the news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 for some reason my dd just feels grieving is private. She's never had to deal with a personal loss before. even though she listened to her friend - she doesn't realize the emotions of grief can rear up without warning - and they don't wait until you are in private. You never know what or when something will be triggered. a 15 yo girl, is not an adult and is less able to cope. When I was in college my brother died in a plane crash. I can say from direct experience that having some people already aware and sympathetic when one returns can be very helpful. Explaining is VERY hard. :grouphug: It is - especially as people are curious as to why you're falling apart and that's the worst time to explain anything. though for symbols of grief were mocked for people dressing in black - but it also conveyed you were grieving. black armbands were a more "modern" version - that was an outward symbol so people could see while you went about your normal life - but even those have disappeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 is your daughter an introvert? Yes, moreso as she's gotten older. I didn't make this connection on my own. Interesting. I'm an introvert too, but death of a loved one would be something I don''t mind sharing because I've bottled stuff up in the past and it never turned out well. It took counseling for me to process things, even years after they happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 ITA with the awkwardness of not having to explain to friends that you have had a loss. It does make it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 having some people already aware and sympathetic when one returns can be very helpful. Explaining is VERY hard. :iagree: I "liked" your post because it was so thoughtful and true. Of course, I don't like the pain and loss you endured. I hope it doesn't come across the wrong way. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 my father died when I was 12. My grandmother was of the mind you shared everything with everyone (she loved attention and was very manipulative about playing the victim.) therefore, I didn't say ANYTHING to ANYONE. however, I did still breakdown in class and struggled to even be "normal" - and that invited terrible treatment from other students. I think this teacher could have worded things better, but her heart was in the right place. I also think letting other students know there is real reason why this girl may break down in tears at odd times is doing her a favor. (even if she doesn't recognize it now.) I think you make a very good point. Rumors spread so quickly and cruelly. There have been a lot of recent news stories of terrible things happening to high school girls made worse by gossip and rumor, and I imagine teachers feel a great responsibility to curtail that as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Side note: my computer got flaky on my and I ended up double-posting, and then couldn't get back for a while to fix it. I'd like to go delete one of the double-posts, but someone has liked each of them. What is the protocol for handling the double-post in this situation, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 black armbands were a more "modern" version - that was an outward symbol so people could see while you went about your normal life - but even those have disappeared. Part of the reason black armbands have disappeared as a sign of grief is because they had been taken over as a gang symbol in some places. That was what my essay was all about -- there was no symbol I could wear or display that would be understood by our society at my time of grief to forewarn people that I was mourning. I burst out in tears in the middle of the grocery store because a favorite song of my brother's started to play. Armbands of any color could be misconstrued as gang colors; dressing all in black (or white, or any other color a culture might equate to death and mourning) is seen as merely a fashion statement. Since we have no acceptable, universally understood indication that one is in mourning it falls on those mourning to inform others of their loss, and it falls on others to be supportive, or at least non-judgmental, when we see someone else lose it inexplicably. Towards this end the teacher was entirely in line to inform the class, so they could be supportive when their classmate returned. I can find no fault with her wording, either, since all we have is a third hand summary of what the teacher said. OP, please advise your DD that her friend will need a calm friend willing to just sit, listen, and be there. No gushing is necessary (unless grieving friend asks for it); there is nothing required beyond understanding and patience. And please please PLEASE advise her not to tell her friend if she is "worried she is not grieving properly" -- everyone grieves in their own way. The last thing someone grieving needs to hear is that they are doing it "wrong". (Yup, been there, had THAT one told to me by well-meaning but clueless friends.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saraha Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 My fatrher died when I was 13 years old. Nobody but my closest freinds knew he was sick. My teachers spread the word around and it made coming back to school so much easier. Where before, people wold have been asking me all day where I had been for a few days and me having to rehash it all day, most people just came up and said something nice, or left it alone. Both were better than having to explain it over and over. One of my teachers made a poster and had my class sign it. That was awkward, but a lot of kids put effort into it and it was nice to know people cared about what happened to me, especially since I wasn't popular or had a lot of friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 And it's okay to tell someone, "No, I don't know what you are going through. But I can see you are hurting, and I'm here for you." And then do just that -- be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Part of the reason black armbands have disappeared as a sign of grief is because they had been taken over as a gang symbol in some places. I hadn't been aware the gangs had taken them over - though no real surprise considering the things they've taken over. I was really disturbed to visit a major university bookstore and find their mascot ball caps in what I am told were variations acceptable to gangs. OP, please advise your DD that her friend will need a calm friend willing to just sit, listen, and be there. No gushing is necessary (unless grieving friend asks for it); there is nothing required beyond understanding and patience. And please please PLEASE advise her not to tell her friend if she is "worried she is not grieving properly" -- everyone grieves in their own way. The last thing someone grieving needs to hear is that they are doing it "wrong". (Yup, been there, had THAT one told to me by well-meaning but clueless friends.) And it's okay to tell someone, "No, I don't know what you are going through. But I can see you are hurting, and I'm here for you." And then do just that -- be there. it's good to be honest. having someone who's never lost a close family member, let alone an adored parent, say they understand what you're feeling is not comforting - even to a teen, it smacks of condescension. I had someone say that to me, and it made me want to run far away from that person. An honest "I'm sorry you're hurting. I care about you and am here for you." is far, far better. I was at a friends house playing, and came home to find out my father had been taken to the hospital where he died the next morning. It was very sudden. the next time I was at that friends house staying overnight, I freaked out and had to get home at 1am, which kinda ticked off those parents. I had stayed overnight at various friends many a time, and never had a problem before that. I didn't make the connection of why for a number of years - but even the parent brought it up later as though I was a just silly girl. so, it really does behoove people to be sensitive because you have no idea where grief can take a person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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