Translating to Greek and Latin from English-why?

[Mom in High Heels]

This may seem like a stupid question, but why do *some* Greek and Latin books have you translate *FROM* English? It's much harder to translate from English to Latin and Greek. I get that it helps understanding/memorizing the the words, but their sentence structures can be very different from English and Indy really struggles with it. He can translate *FROM* Latin and Greek incredibly easily (much easier than I can-Grrrr), but going *TO* Latin and Greek nearly causes him to have a breakdown. I'm really wondering if we should just skip the translating *TO* and concentrate on translating *FROM* those languages. I'm trying to think of a scenario where he'll be called upon to translate to those languages other than if he continues them at upper and college level. I think maybe at this level it's too much. Thoughts?

 

ETA: I had 3 years of French and 1 year of Latin in high school and I can't ever remember translating from English to Latin. French, yes. Latin, no.

In your first sentence, you mean "FROM English (To Latin)", right?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Being able to produce in a target language is often harder than reading and translating to English. Reading is a bit more passive in that you have to recognize the meaning but don't necessarily have to know the fine details of the other language's grammar.

 

So the exercises that require English to Latin force mastery through the harder skill. In the book my kids use it seems that there are fewer English to Latin exercises and that they tend to be less complex than the Latin to English sentences.

 

[Mom in High Heels]

In your first sentence, you mean "FROM English (To Latin)", right?

 

 

Yes, I corrected it. Thanks for catching it.

From Latin -> English is often called "translation", where from English -> Latin is often called "composition". And, indeed composition is much harder than translation. This is because it is easy to use context to "cheat" when translating, especially when translating beginner's sentences. Latin is a very terse language, and often the context won't be around to help in "real" Latin. So, we use composition to make sure that the student understands the forms and grammar. Keep on with the composition. It is hard, but worth it.

[Mom in High Heels]

From Latin -> English is often called "translation", where from English -> Latin is often called "composition". And, indeed composition is much harder than translation. This is because it is easy to use context to "cheat" when translating, especially when translating beginner's sentences. Latin is a very terse language, and often the context won't be around to help in "real" Latin. So, we use composition to make sure that the student understands the forms and grammar. Keep on with the composition. It is hard, but worth it.

 

 

I knew there was another word for it, but I couldn't remember. Thanks. I'm so up in the air about this. He loves translating Latin and Greek and is quite good at it, and I'm afraid the composition is going to make him dislike them. Maybe we should concentrate on the translation a bit more for now until he has a better understanding of the grammar and then move on?

[3Blessings]

My dc are at the end of Elementary Greek year 1 and my husband has been asking that all year! They have had several situations going from Greek to English. It hasn't been a real issue, but it does challenge them a bit. Thanks for the clarification!

[Laura Corin]

Because it's hard. Calvin learned much more by translating in that direction.

 

Laura

[Mom in High Heels]

Because it's hard. Calvin learned much more by translating in that direction.

 

Laura

 

 

LOL. Yeah, it is hard. I think it's the frustration level that's the issue right now.

[Melanie]

Maybe we should concentrate on the translation a bit more for now until he has a better understanding of the grammar and then move on?

 

I find that the composition is what gives my children a better understanding of the grammar. Slogging through the difficult composition now makes translating Cicero easy later.

 

 

LOL. Yeah, it is hard. I think it's the frustration level that's the issue right now.

 

Sometimes if you give them enough funny vocabulary to make up silly sentences, say, about their Mom, it can help with this frustration...

[Shmead]

I knew there was another word for it, but I couldn't remember. Thanks. I'm so up in the air about this. He loves translating Latin and Greek and is quite good at it, and I'm afraid the composition is going to make him dislike them. Maybe we should concentrate on the translation a bit more for now until he has a better understanding of the grammar and then move on?

 

 

Because doing the hard stuff is how he gets the better understanding of the grammar: if the composition were easy, there'd be no point in doing it.

 

That said, it would be reasonable to do it in smaller pieces.

[Laura Corin]

 

 

LOL. Yeah, it is hard. I think it's the frustration level that's the issue right now.

 

We used to snuggle up on the sofa, with Calvin's feet on my lap. I would have the answer book propped up and he would translate E-L orally while I massaged his feet.

 

Laura

[Mom in High Heels]

I should probably clarify, that it's not really Latin that's the problem. He can do Latin fairly easily, I was just lumping it in with Greek, for the sake of the question. It's really the Greek that's the issue.

[Laura Corin]

I should probably clarify, that it's not really Latin that's the problem. He can do Latin fairly easily, I was just lumping it in with Greek, for the sake of the question. It's really the Greek that's the issue.

 

Ah: Calvin chose not to study Greek (he was already doing Latin and Chinese) and Hobbes only did a light year of Greek.

 

Laura

[Melanie]

I should probably clarify, that it's not really Latin that's the problem. He can do Latin fairly easily, I was just lumping it in with Greek, for the sake of the question. It's really the Greek that's the issue.

 

Greek is our issue, too, and I think it takes longer for me to grade it than it does for him to do it! I have no suggestions for you because we're in the same boat, but I do think all the hair pulling will be worth it in the end. My son is translating Xenophon's Anabasis this year, and that has been relatively painless.

[RemsMom]

We used to snuggle up on the sofa, with Calvin's feet on my lap. I would have the answer book propped up and he would translate E-L orally while I massaged his feet.

 

Laura

 

When DD10 is frustrated with her Latin lesson we discuss the translation first and then she writes in the answer. That way, if she is struggling, we can work out the translation before she has to write it down. Also, translating is less frustrating when done while snuggling on the sofa!