Henle Question

[nellecv]

I'm confused about what constitutes a year of Henle Latin. The book Latin: First Year contains 14 units, but I see a lot of comments on here that say units 1-7 are a year of latin. Can someone explain this discrepancy to me?

[TeaCookiesBears]

Bump

[TeaCookiesBears]

Thanks for the clarity. I was wondering about this also.

[Brenda in MA]

Nowadays the typical student will go through about the first three or so units, and THAT is considered the equivalent of Latin 1. The rest of the first book will give you the equivalent of today's Latin 2. All the necessary grammar instruction is found in the first book, and readings begin in the second book. This is typically the level of a modern Latin 3 course. The third book is Latin 4, and the fourth book is considered AP level.

 

I don't believe that this is exactly correct.

 

My understanding is that Units 1 - 7 of Henle 1 constitute a high school Latin 1 credit. If you look at the syllabus for the National Latin Exam, Level 1, a student will have covered most of this syllabus by doing units 1 - 7 in Henle 1.

 

Units 8 - 14 of Henle 1 would be a high school Latin 2 credit (and the NLE syllabus backs this up).

 

Completing Henle 2 would be a high school Latin 3 credit (and, again, the NLE Latin III syllabus backs this up).

 

Henle books 1 & 2 have some overlap. I believe that the idea was that the original students for whom the books were written would typically not fully complete book 1 in a school year, but they'd at least get to the end of unit 7. Book 2 has some repetition of the material in Units 8 - 14 of Book 1, but at a much faster pace. Book 2 is about half grammar & half adapted readings.

 

Having used both of these books (Henle 1 & 2), I would suggest that for the best comprehension, a student ought to complete book 1 over at least 2 years, and then book 2 can be done in a single year. Alternatively, Memoria Press has a new series called "First Form", "Second Form", etc. that is supposed to cover Henle book 1 over 4 years, but at a slower pace, so you can start the series with students as early as the 5th grade.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[nellecv]

Thank you! My brain was getting scrambled by all the info. Now, I wonder how many years of high school Latin are equal to one year of college Latin...

Now, I wonder how many years of high school Latin are equal to one year of college Latin...

 

 

That's an easy question. Two.

[G5052]

FWIW --

 

There are a variety of opinions on this, so there's reason for confusion.

 

Classical Conversations uses Henle I for Challenge A, B, and I, starting over at the beginning each year and going faster each year. Challenge I doesn't finish Henle I though. Then in Challenge II, they do every lesson in the second half of the Henle II and add in the Caesar material at the beginning in the second half of the year. So a student starting in Challenge B or I, would have two high school Latin credits by the end of Challenge II. Students who take the National Latin Exam from this program usually struggle because this plan doesn't fit the NLE syllabus.

 

The Memoria Press Online program has the students using Henle I for Latin I and II, and then Henle II for Latin III.

 

Last I heard, students transferring into the VPSA Diploma Program need Henle I, Henle II, and Henle III in order to get credit for Latin I and II.

 

And with the AP syllabus now requiring both Caesar and Virgil, the sequence in Henle really doesn't fit as well if the AP is your goal. Henle III is Caesar and Cicero, and Henle IV is Virgil.

 

Personally, I vote for spending two years on Henle I for Latin I and II, and then using Henle II for Latin III. Every kid is different though, and I have one who would have been bored with that schedule.

[Brenda in MA]

Personally, I vote for spending two years on Henle I for Latin I and II, and then using Henle II for Latin III. Every kid is different though, and I have one who would have been bored with that schedule.

 

I would agree with this, and also agree that the upper levels 3 & 4 of Henle are not well suited to AP exam prep because they only cover Cicero, and Vergil. The AP syllabus readings do come from Caesar & Vergil, but 30% of the questions on the AP exam are on sight passages (both poetry & prose) from a variety of authors. To do well on the sight passage portion, it helps if the student has a background of reading a variety of authors before tackling the specific AP syllabus.

 

Brenda

[G5052]

 

I would agree with this, and also agree that the upper levels 3 & 4 of Henle are not well suited to AP exam prep because they only cover Cicero, and Vergil. The AP syllabus readings do come from Caesar & Vergil, but 30% of the questions on the AP exam are on sight passages (both poetry & prose) from a variety of authors. To do well on the sight passage portion, it helps if the student has a background of reading a variety of authors before tackling the specific AP syllabus.

 

Brenda

 

 

Yes, there is where I've come to see where Henle has its negative points. It is accessible for those of us who have never studied Latin and needed something step-by-step. It is so complete in the way that it handles things, and it has been around for a long time. However, if you want to take the NLE, it takes some effort to do well because the topic order is different, and he doesn't do much with Roman history and culture in the early books other than Caesar and the Gallic Wars. And if you stay with it alone, you don't get the experience translating different authors, which is a valuable skill that needs to be developed to advance in a language. I know that Classical Conversations brings in online sources for additional work with Henle IV to help students have the experience necessary for the AP, although they don't teach with an AP-approved syllabus.

 

I've come around to see that Wheelock's meets my goals more than Henle, but I wouldn't feel solid teaching a paid class with it like I do with Henle. After having taught through Henle I and II several times, I could probably manage Wheelock's, but it would take some doing. Great book though.

[Brenda in MA]

 

Yes, there is where I've come to see where Henle has its negative points. It is accessible for those of us who have never studied Latin and needed something step-by-step. It is so complete in the way that it handles things, and it has been around for a long time. However, if you want to take the NLE, it takes some effort to do well because the topic order is different, and he doesn't do much with Roman history and culture in the early books other than Caesar and the Gallic Wars. And if you stay with it alone, you don't get the experience translating different authors, which is a valuable skill that needs to be developed to advance in a language. I know that Classical Conversations brings in online sources for additional work with Henle IV to help students have the experience necessary for the AP, although they don't teach with an AP-approved syllabus.

 

I've come around to see that Wheelock's meets my goals more than Henle, but I wouldn't feel solid teaching a paid class with it like I do with Henle. After having taught through Henle I and II several times, I could probably manage Wheelock's, but it would take some doing. Great book though.

 

:iagree:

I really enjoyed the years that we spent with Henle learning Latin grammar. Learning the grammar slowly over 3 - 4 years with Henle, which uses less vocabulary than Wheelock, was a very effective approach. However, the transition to Latin 3 (we used Lukeion's multi-author course) was difficult, but not impossible, mostly due to the lack of vocabulary.

 

It also doesn't hurt that now, the AP Latin syllabus is half Caesar's Gallic War, which is the focus of Henle 1 & 2. So at least the little vocabulary and nuances of Caesar's writing style that you do learn in Henle 1 & 2 comes in mighty handy when you're translating the Caesar passages from the current AP syllabus.

 

If I were to use/teach Henle again, I would make a more deliberate effort to supplement it, probably with Lingua Latina, in order to increase the exposure to additional vocabulary. I also agree with you that if you are using Henle, doing well on the NLE requires careful review of the NLE syllabus for the level you are taking, and supplementing with material on Roman History, culture, geography, and mythology, most of which are absent from Henle.

 

Brenda

[74Heaven]

I think the general consensus is that Henle Units 1-7 is one Latin credit. I do not follow that consensus and award credit more on a 150-180 hours spent credit basis.

 

(I have also been told that Henle II spends the first half (not sure on that exactly???) reviewing Henle Year 1 book. I have been advised when we finish Year One (14 units I think???) that we can skip the first half of Henle Year 2.

 

I use a slightly different approach that I feel comfortable awarding one credit for:

 

Using the MP syllabus, we do Henle Units 1-2 + 20ish hours NLE prep + 30 Latin sayings for 1 credit - High School Latin I.

Again using the MP syllabus, we do Henle Units 3-5, 20ish hours of NLE prep, + 50 Latin Phrases College Students Should Know... and call it 1 credit High School Latin II.

 

For both of the above classes, we meet in a 32-week co op format + 2-4 NLE extra sessions - and we incorporate other Latin extras as well such as prayers, conversational basics and Roman history and geography topics. Based on time spent and the myriad of other public, private and homeschooling 1 credit classes, I feel very comfortable with this scenario. I give lots of tests and quizzes, grade objectively and fairly "strictly" and we work 160-180 hours a year. I give homework for 36ish weeks, even tho we only meet 32x.

 

Lisa j, mom to 2 grads; 3 to go...