Trying to cheap it out when it comes to homeschooling?

[Stayseeliz]

I realize this topic might be controversial but I'm wondering if this is an issue everywhere. I've seen more and more people who are homeschooling older kids. They're taking classes like biology, chemistry, algebra, etc. And the parents want to pay NOTHING or next to nothing for their schooling! They don't feel qualified to teach those classes but they balk at paying someone $150 (lncluding lab supplies) for a full year, high school credit chemistry class. In this area people want EVERYTHING for free or next to free. Someone did tell me that of someone in the next large city over who charges $500 for a chemistry class and he's turning people away. So I'm wondering if it's just the people around here that feel this way.

 

I don't understand it! If I don't feel qualified to teach something I make sure I find someone who can and I'm willing to pay! Are we rich? NOPE! But we sacrifice to make sure our children get a good education. I view homeschooling as a cheap private education and I knew going into this that there would be classes and lessons I'd have to pay for. I see that as part of the deal with homeschooling. But I guess a lot of people don't see it that way. They balk at almost anything besides buying a book. And sometimes they don't even want to do that.

 

I know some people are struggling financially but I just don't understand this. II know some people are on a shoestring budget! I really do get that. But I feel like it's my responsibility to provide my children with the tools they need to suceed in life. Someone told me I was crazy for thinking about putting DS11 in an online science class next year. He's a math and science kid. He needs a solid science education and I don't feel like I can provide that for him with three of the kids homeschooling next year and a toddler running around. So I'll pay for the class if I feel like he needs it.

 

Is it like this everywhere? Just curious..

[Stayseeliz]

I'm not quite there yet so I have no idea what it's like in that department. I'd hesitate to pay $150 for a course because I'd wonder why it was so cheap.

 

I feel like that's cheap too. It was a class taught by someone who is well known as a science and math expert in this area. She's taught many classes before and hands down knows her stuff. $100-150 per class was the going rate for classes in that co-op. She did it more as a ministry than a money making endeavor. People didn't question it because they thought it was cheap. They thought it was too expensive!

[Unicorn.]

I'm w/ you. If I want a good teacher for a subject I don't feel qualified to teach, I pay for it. We have paid for outside classed, and If dd were going to stay homeschooled next year, I would be paying 70-80 dollars per month minimum for math and science classes, that meet 2x a week. What I do balk at, is the local HS co-op that charges even more than that, Plus, it requires you to work (volunteer, in addition to the money) so many hours a week. If I'm paying $250 month for a class, then I'm not giving my time too, ya know?

[Koerarmoca]

Some folks don't have the money for expensive courses. I try not to judge. Each child/family has their own reasons for what they choose to best suit their children. I wouldn't bother with other thoughts and opinions do what's best for you.

[Catwoman]

If a parent can't afford to pay for classes for their kids, but they don't feel qualified to teach certain subjects on their own, it's time to get creative, not to expect someone to teach their kids for free or super-cheap. I have known a few moms like that -- they feel that their kids are entitled to all kinds of great classes, yet they don't think they should have to pay for them. I tell those moms that public school may be their best solution. :D

 

If you can't afford classes, try to find other moms who are in the same boat you're in, and try to pool your skills and resources. If one mom is a math whiz and another is an amazing writer, they can trade tutoring services, or teach their kids together, with each mom teaching her strongest subjects. Some co-ops are quite inexpensive and offer great classes. Maybe there are older homeschooled kids who will tutor younger ones for a reasonable rate.

 

There are always options. And if parents can't find any other options, yet still want to homeschool, it's time for Mom and Dad to hit the books and learn the kids' lessons a bit ahead of time, so they can teach it to the kids later on.

[Stayseeliz]

 

Ah well see I'm a little skeptical when it comes to co-op stuff. I don't rely on it to substitute for courses studied at home. I suppose if I knew that the person was really an expert I might give it a try, but any co-op anything I've encountered wasn't of very good quality so no way do I want to pay much for it. KWIM?

 

Yes, I totally get that! This is the reason why we aren't doing a co-op next year. I felt like I could teach the classes as well or better than most of the parents did. This was more of a pay per class situation, not a true co-op. People with degrees in those areas taught classes they had experience in and you just paid per class. You didn't have to teach, volunteer etc. DS took IEW and a fun earth science class there and loved it but we won't continue on next year.

 

I really do understand that some people don't have the money to pay for classes, etc. But I don't understand why those people homeschool if they can't provide the kids with the classes or instruction they need.

[Catwoman]

 

Ah well see I'm a little skeptical when it comes to co-op stuff. I don't rely on it to substitute for courses studied at home. I suppose if I knew that the person was really an expert I might give it a try, but any co-op anything I've encountered wasn't of very good quality so no way do I want to pay much for it. KWIM?

 

We tried a co-op, because I'd heard that the classes were excellent. The problem was, the curriculum they used didn't line up with what we were using at home, and I didn't like it well enough to switch from what we were already using, nor did I think it was necessary for my ds to do the co-op program on top of his "regular" schoolwork, so the co-op classes didn't work for us.

[Catwoman]

 

Yeah see if my kid isn't going to get something in the end like a piece of paper or credit I would rather they just do it at home (unless it was something unusual/special that I absolutely could not provide). My thinking is if I want my kid to take classes I'll just send him to school. I met a woman not long ago who does nothing but put her kids in one co-op type class after another with the reasoning she isn't a teacher and doesn't want to teach. Well gee, why not just put your kid in school then? I don't understand.

 

:iagree:

 

I know a few moms whose kids spend more time shuttling from one class to another than they would if they were in school -- and it's not like these are high school kids. They are YOUNG.

[elegantlion]

Well, we're broke and couldn't pay 150.00 for an outside class unless it was fabulous. Unfortunately, I don't know of any fabulous classes in our area, so, as Cat said, we get creative. I invest most of my disposable income into homeschooling, it's my priority expense, but a little only stretches so far. I do believe in investing into the education of my child, we've just had to take a lot of creative and new routes to get there.

 

I would encourage parents of younger children to maintain their self-education. Don't wait until you need to teach algebra to fill in the gaps. Even the books I read to stay ahead of ds have made a difference.

[Mommy22alyns]

I've already told DH that in a couple of years, Rebecca's curriculum is going to be a WHOLE lot more expensive. Prepare now, LOL!

[Murphy101]

Well there are two different things that might be going in there.

 

One, they are willing, but simply can't. The end. One can only sacrifice as a family so much for a class.

 

Two, they've been ...what's a good PC code word?... Sham? No. Scam? No. Screwed? No.... Disillusioned. There. Let's go with that one. They have in the past spent a bloody fortune, by bloody fortune I mean equal to the cost of a college class tuition, with people supposedly awesome as homemade apple pie who taught fabulously only to find out that the only people who seem to think that are either completely okay with mediocre at best levels or are woefully ignorant of what standards should be. (And I will say right now, I don't always blame the instructor either. Wth is she supposed to do when only ONE student out of 15 even bothers to read the assignments or do any homework and the parents are all, "oh I know, but we were busy and just didn't have time"? )

 

Three, they know they don't want to do it, but they honestly haven't figured the costs entailed in doing it. I've heard a few people comment to me that the Landry courses are really expensive. I inform them they don't have a clue. I was highly skeptical about it bc I thought it might be too cheap. I'm ridiculously happy to find it was what they said it would be and affordable. (Now. I have a complete multiple abeka lab sets from home science tools that costs me a few hundred dollars in my kitchen cabinet. I let the kids play with what they can. Most expensive toys ever. Sigh.)

 

That's my take.

 

[Lisbeth]

Quality might be a reason for going to outside classes instead of school. That is likely not a co op situation, though.

[Jenny in Florida]

When you say "high school credit," what, exactly, does that mean?

 

Are we talking about a co-op class? Or about a class provided through some kind of accredited organization?

 

Honestly, if it's the former, I wouldn't be terribly interested in paying $150 for it, either, even if I could afford it. Our experiences with outside classes have been, shall we say, disappointing. My kid is often the only semi-serious student in the group. I'm generally the only parent enforcing homework. Teachers don't show up or lose enthusiasm half-way through the semester. I often feel like I could teach the material at least as well at home. And, when all is said and done, my kid ends up with a piece of paper and a "grade" that is completely meaningless outside of homeschool circles.

 

Now, I am, admitedly, cheap. But, from my point of view, if I'm going to pay three digits for a class, I want it to come with some kind of guarantee of quality and outside verification of the grade. I'm content to take a flyer with a small budget on a class that I end up counting as enrichment and social time. But once we get into hundreds, I get more demanding, especially when there are options available for the same cost or less (such as community college dual enrollment) that are more dependable.

[DawnM]

There are classes here and people keep saying, "It is SO expensive!"

 

I am looking at signing my oldest up for Algebra 1 next year. It is $265 per semester (so $530 for the year) but it is twice a week for 75 minutes each time.

 

When people say how expensive that is, I remind them that the class is basically $10 per class period for a teacher who comes highly recommended. That is CHEAP and well worth the cost to me.

 

The problem is that you have to pay up front.....paying $60/mo seems cheap, (9 months' worth) but they don't work it that way.

[Murphy101]

I'd want paid up front too. It's a PITA nagging people for money every month and dealing with the bookkeeping. Bounced checks. Having to confront them and maybe refusing to continue with a student due to lack of payment.

[Murphy101]

Tho I will offer the proviso that I've been burned on the pay up front end too. Nothing like paying up front then having the teacher/class whatever fall through and having to nag, whine, and complain for months to get a refund. :/

[DawnM]

Oh, I totally get it, it is just that when people see the price tag they don't think, "Wow, only $500 for the entire year?" They just see, "I have to pay $500 right now and that is a lot of money."

 

I don't think there ever would be a way to pay monthly for that sort of thing.

 

I'd want paid up front too. It's a PITA nagging people for money every month and dealing with the bookkeeping. Bounced checks. Having to confront them and maybe refusing to continue with a student due to lack of payment.

[Arcadia]

I really do understand that some people don't have the money to pay for classes, etc. But I don't understand why those people homeschool if they can't provide the kids with the classes or instruction they need.

 

Some parents pull their children out because of bullying that the school is "ignoring". Not every state has charter school that provides curriculum or money to buy curriculum. Some find it tiring to jump through the loops for these charter schools. Its a messy situation all around.

We pay $255 each per semester (12 saturdays) for our kids german class so $150 would have been considered cheap for a lab based science class. A class nearby charges $270 for 15 one hour session for science.

[regentrude]

My thinking is if I want my kid to take classes I'll just send him to school. I met a woman not long ago who does nothing but put her kids in one co-op type class after another with the reasoning she isn't a teacher and doesn't want to teach. Well gee, why not just put your kid in school then? I don't understand.

 

There are many reasons not to send a child to school: bullying, level of school work not appropriate for child (LD, gifted, 2E), wanting to retain control over curriculum (they may outsourced just that part of the education they decide).

Public school not being a viable option for the child does not mean the parent can, or likes to, teach.

Also, some children just thrive in a group learning environment and do better than alone at home.

[Seasider]

I'm not quite there yet so I have no idea what it's like in that department. I'd hesitate to pay $150 for a course because I'd wonder why it was so cheap.

 

 

So for an approximately 140 hr/Carnegie unit course, that's an instructor pay rate of $1.07 per hour.

 

Maybe folks need to be asked if that's a rate they'd want to be paid. Oh wait, that's before deducting supply costs...

 

I will say, though, that some co op classes in our area are priced outta sight. Way more than the local community college.

[kiwik]

 

 

Yes, I totally get that! This is the reason why we aren't doing a co-op next year. I felt like I could teach the classes as well or better than most of the parents did. This was more of a pay per class situation, not a true co-op. People with degrees in those areas taught classes they had experience in and you just paid per class. You didn't have to teach, volunteer etc. DS took IEW and a fun earth science class there and loved it but we won't continue on next year.

 

I really do understand that some people don't have the money to pay for classes, etc. But I don't understand why those people homeschool if they can't provide the kids with the classes or instruction they need.

 

 

But then you can't really say you have to have an income assessment before being allowed to homes school. You could try and get a home school supervision allowance into law like New Zealand has butit wouldn't go far for high school courses.

[DawnM]

I do get what you are saying. I am a former teacher ( credentials are still current) but one reason I refuse to offer a class for pay is because of the parents. One parent complains the class is too hard, the other complains her child isn't learning because it is too easy.

 

Homeschoolers are never happy.

 

The only way I would teach a class for pay is if the curriculum is somewhat canned so that parents know exactly what they are signing up for. I currently teach a WriteShop class to a small group and I would feel confident teaching something like that, where the parents can look carefully at the curriculum beforehand and see exactly what it is the child will be learning so they can't complain that it is not what they thought it would be.

 

Dawn

 

Well and I know my reasoning is faulty, but I can't help but be skeptical about courses not taught by teachers. I'm not a teacher and I homeschool my kids. So you'd think I'd be more open minded about that. But no I am kinda turned off by that idea unless the person happens to be a teacher, has experience, or I know they have a particular special skill and trust them to do a good job.

[Murphy101]

Well and I know my reasoning is faulty, but I can't help but be skeptical about courses not taught by teachers. I'm not a teacher and I homeschool my kids. So you'd think I'd be more open minded about that. But no I am kinda turned off by that idea unless the person happens to be a teacher, has experience, or I know they have a particular special skill and trust them to do a good job.

 

 

I don't think the reasoning is faulty. While I trust my dh is make a car repair if he says he can do it, that doesn't mean I'm going to pay the same wage as I would someone who is certified and been inthe business 20 years to someone who just decided that they like cars and will fix mine for the same price or less. I think that is usually true, yes? When doing something in house, we aren't looking for professionalism. We are looking to just get the job done. When hiring someone, especially for what feels like a large sum to us (whether it really is to them or not), we expect considerable more professionalism and expertise for the cost.

 

Teaching is the same way. If I can teach it, fabulous. If I have to pay someone, I expect at least as much of a professional as I would do on my own and truth be known, I expect considerably more than that otherwise I would just do it myself.

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, this isn't limited to homeschool classes. I taught Early Childhood music for quite a few years at a University lab program (where we were providing community classes at a discounted rate taught by college faculty BECAUSE we were also using them to teach/train college students/grad students), and we had a lot of parents complain about the cost. We actually cost less than anywhere else in town except a few grant funded programs specifically intended for low-income students, had a sliding scale on tuition overall, and there aren't many other places where you'll find graduate degreed instructors teaching preschoolers!

 

What we ran into simply was this-there were fixed costs in having/holding the class, and we could only drop tuition so much and still pay faculty at all. Approximately 1/3 of our low tuition rate went straight into building use fees (yes, when you're a university department, you still have to have enough collected per class to cover the building-and I can tell you that the rate we paid was MUCH less than a similar sized classroom would have been as a commercial rental). About 1/3 paid our instructors. 1/3 went into class materials, supplies, carrying liability insurance, and a small amount into the scholarship fund.

 

I get extremely frustrated now when parents don't want to pay for activities our homeschool group does-because usually, the cost for a class and activity isn't going to differ all that much whether it's a "co-op" taught by Jamie's mom, who took a few classes in college, or taught by a professional. It's finding a place to have it that's large enough to have it. It's purchasing consumable and non-consumable materials. It's liability insurance for the group. It's keeping the website up for the program as a whole. It's fees for online payments. If you actually have a teacher who is trying to make their living, or even supplement their income teaching, you have to add a living wage for them, too.

[regentrude]

Well and I know my reasoning is faulty, but I can't help but be skeptical about courses not taught by teachers. I'm not a teacher and I homeschool my kids. So you'd think I'd be more open minded about that. But no I am kinda turned off by that idea unless the person happens to be a teacher, has experience, or I know they have a particular special skill and trust them to do a good job.

 

 

Oh, I agree completely. It does not have to be an actual teacher, but if I am paying for a class, I want the instructor to have substantially more subject expertise than I have myself. Otherwise it would not be worth it.

[regentrude]

She wanted our homeschool group to form a co-op. She never came to the homeschool group, but when someone mentioned the idea of adding something more organized to our group, via our message board, she jumped all over that and started making detailed plans for our co-op we were going to form because that's what she was looking for. I had just left a group that called themselves a co-op that was terrible so I wanted no part of that.

 

 

When I joined our homeschool group, I was really hoping it could provide some academic opportunities for my kids. When they formed a coop, I joined, because I would have loved to have some people with expertise teach writing, for example, something I felt insecure about. The coop was a joke. More glorified playgroup than anything else. I tried teaching a class once, NEVER again. So, I can totally see where you come from - but I can also understand the other mom wanting this opportunity so much for her kids.