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Samiam

Have you seen Apologia's blog that states LDS are not Christians? Thoughts?

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Sorry, can't link it..on a dumb smartphone...but wondering what you all think about Apologia's stance that Latter Day Saints are not Christians? I'm not educated enough in religion to really understand their opinion

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I'm offended on behalf of all the Christians who are told they are not real Christians or Christian enough. It is for these reasons Apologia and BJU and others like them won't even get a passing glance when I search for books and materials.

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As an LDS person I can say this is nothing new. Not specifically from Apologia perhaps, but from Christian organizations and persons in general. In my personal experience it's actually been more rare for me to meet a Christian who counts me in as a fellow Christian than one that doesn't.

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. It's actually more rare for me to meet a Christian who counts me in as a fellow Christian than one that doesn't.

 

 

I'm sorry you have to deal with that. I get it occasionally also. It is trying.

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Seriously?!?! Christians need to stop all this stupid bickering. I for one am too darn busy worrying about and confessing my own sins to worry about who is or isn't a Christian.

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So to paraphrase:

 

Apologia believes LDS folks believe Christianity is "perverted", "evil", and "hatched in hell". Also, "Whore of Babylon" and "the anti-Christ".

.

But -

 

"Does this mean we are “bashing†others? In no way. Consider how Mormons were branded as hateful bigots by homosexuals when they stood against Prop 8. Just as their disagreement did not equal hate or bigotry, Apologia’s stand for the Gospel does not equal hatred or bigotry, even for those who may disagree. We simply believe the LDS are in error and need to turn to the true and Living Savior."

 

So - you can still give us your money. We have no problem with that. Because "one of the Mormons" in an "actual phone call", said it was OK.

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So to paraphrase:

 

Apologia believes LDS folks believe Christianity is "perverted", "evil", and "hatched in hell". Also, "Whore of Babylon" and "the anti-Christ".

 

 

I've never heard that we were "hatched in hell." But we often get "whore of Babylon" and "the anti-Christ." And the infamous "sun cult." Oh, and cannibals. Lets not forget that one.

 

I thought I'd share so nobody feels alone.

 

I suppose the JWs get some real doozies. Anyone else?

 

 

ETA: Yes, I read it wrong. But it still stands. I've heard LDS people called a lot of things. I'm not sure why People are so threatened that they call names on fellow followers of Christ. I suppose eternity is a long time and nobodly likes to think they've got it wrong.

 

(Oh, I sill haven't slept. Lets add another day to the count and another 5 hours of sleep.)

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Oh, that is just awful. My only thoughts are that if Aplogia's stance on..age of the earth issues wasn't enough to keep me away, this is.

 

Interesting how after an entire article devoted to tearing down LDS beliefs they state it's perfectly fine for LDS people to still buy their curriculum.

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This makes me sad.

 

Guess what? Once we meet the Lord face to face, we'll realize that A: We didn't get everything right, B: Our church didn't have everything 100% right, and C: There are people in Heaven we didn't expect to see. God's mercy is SO much bigger than we ever give Him credit for. No one on earth, not one, can judge a person's relationship with the Lord and this or that person/group is/isn't Christian.

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Oh, that is just awful. My only thoughts are that if Aplogia's stance on..age of the earth issues wasn't enough to keep me away, this is.

 

Interesting how after an entire article devoted to tearing down LDS beliefs they state it's perfectly fine for LDS people to still buy their curriculum.

Which is kind of funny, because there aren't nearly as many young-earth LDS as there are old-earth LDS. I can't imagine they get much money from us anyway.

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I've never heard that we were "hatched in hell." But we often get "whore of Babylon" and "the anti-Christ." And the infamous "sun cult." Oh, and cannibals. Lets not forget that one.

 

I thought I'd share so nobody feels alone.

 

I suppose the JWs get some real doozies. Anyone else?

 

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I think the website is saying Mormons believe those things about Christians, not that Christians are calling Mormons those things? I don't understand, do Mormons call themselves Christians? If they identify as Christians, are they saying those things about themselves? I'm confused.

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"In an actual phone call with one of the Mormons" makes it sound like there are five and they managed to find one of us. :lol: That's quite funny. (I'm LDS. I don't really care if Apologia calls me a Christian or not, but I do consider myself one.)

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Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I think the website is saying Mormons believe those things about Christians, not that Christians are calling Mormons those things? I don't understand, do Mormons call themselves Christians? If they identify as Christians, are they saying those things about themselves? I'm confused.

 

Well, I haven't slept more than 10 hours in the last 48 so I could very well have read it wrong.

 

Actually I'm putting my foot in my mouth a lot this evening. Maybe I ought to go where I can't talk to people until I sleep.

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You know, it's one thing to believe there us a disconnect between what you believe should be included in your faith and what another group believes. But WHY is there even a need to go there?!

And it's not just homeschool suppliers that do this. A popular head covering provider chopped their customer base dramatically by putting out a public announcement against Catholics (and just as insulting to the Orthodox and Pagans that used to order from them...but it gave the rest of us business ;) ).

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"In an actual phone call with one of the Mormons" makes it sound like there are five and they managed to find one of us. :lol: That's quite funny. (I'm LDS. I don't really care if Apologia calls me a Christian or not, but I do consider myself one.)

 

 

Kind of reads like a bad nature documentary narration.

 

whispers "We managed to spot and find an elusive Mormon in the wilds of the United States. In ACTUAL phone with one of the Mormons..."

 

You all are exotic now!

 

Also, I like how one Mormon homeschooling Mom is now the spokesperson for an entire religion! All LDS are free to buy Apologia...uh...an actual Mormon who homeschool discussed it with us on the telephone and we "essentially concluded" you could give us your money in good conscience.

 

And Apologia went ahead and gave you the go ahead to still patronize gas stations too, so good that you have their blessing.

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Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I think the website is saying Mormons believe those things about Christians, not that Christians are calling Mormons those things? I don't understand, do Mormons call themselves Christians? If they identify as Christians, are they saying those things about themselves? I'm confused.

 

I really don't get it, either. Yes, Mormons call themselves Christians and while we believe we have a fulness of the gospel, we don't believe that "Christians are liars and children of the devil" for instance. Yuck. That's just awful.

 

Lots of the references for that article come from a book (Mormon Doctrine) which is not, as some of the commenters on the blog mentioned, canonical for the LDS church. It is an interesting read, but it does not represent the be-all and end-all of LDS beliefs, despite its title.

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You know, it's one thing to believe there us a disconnect between what you believe should be included in your faith and what another group believes. But WHY is there even a need to go there?!

And it's not just homeschool suppliers that do this. A popular head covering provider chopped their customer base dramatically by putting out a public announcement against Catholics (and just as insulting to the Orthodox and Pagans that used to order from them...but it gave the rest of us business ;) ).

 

Yup. I bought from that provider until it went out of its way to turn away Catholics. At that point, I couldn't justify buying from them any longer. Didn't want to be a burden, you know.

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Just another group of people who are supposed to encourage home education and love of learning, yet don't seem to educate themselves before they insert their big feet into their tiny mouths....

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So to paraphrase:

 

Apologia believes LDS folks believe Christianity is "perverted", "evil", and "hatched in hell". Also, "Whore of Babylon" and "the anti-Christ".

 

I'm not taking a position on this one way or the other, but Apologia provided end notes to LDS documents which are direct quotations from Joseph Smith, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrines and Covenants, and more. IOW, these are things which the Church has put in writing about non-LDS Christians..

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Much of it was either a gross misinterpretation, something written by an LDS person but never official doctrine (Evan if it's titled "Mormon Doctrine" =/= cannon), our a real belief being misunderstood (the Jesus and Satan being brothers thing)

 

I can say with complete honesty that I don't believe Christianity was hatched in hell, our that the Trinity is a monster, our any of the other Mormon"beliefs" this blog put forth, nor have I ever been taught such in church.

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Much of it was either a gross misinterpretation, something written by an LDS person but never official doctrine (Evan if it's titled "Mormon Doctrine" =/= cannon), our a real belief being misunderstood (the Jesus and Satan being brothers thing)

 

I can say with complete honesty that I don't believe Christianity was hatched in hell, our that the Trinity is a monster, our any of the other Mormon"beliefs" this blog put forth, nor have I ever been taught such in church.

I agree. I can assure you that the LDS church does not teach, nor do its members believe, ANYTHING listed under their heading, "Mormons Believe". None of it.

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Regardless of what LDS believe, what Apologia believes, or what Apologia believes that LDS believe...what was the point in going there? Will we have a blog post every week now on why Apologia believes this or that group is wrong, but that it's okay to still buy from them if they can get one person from that group to say so?

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Regardless of what LDS believe, what Apologia believes, or what Apologia believes that LDS believe...what was the point in going there? Will we have a blog post every week now on why Apologia believes this or that group is wrong, but that it's okay to still buy from them if they can get one person from that group to say so?

 

They'd have been better off not to say anything at all and let people decide for themselves whether they want to buy Apologia products or not. :glare:

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Regardless of what LDS believe, what Apologia believes, or what Apologia believes that LDS believe...what was the point in going there? Will we have a blog post every week now on why Apologia believes this or that group is wrong, but that it's okay to still buy from them if they can get one person from that group to say so?

 

 

Exactly. But, hey, it is always nice for curricula providers to weed themselves out for me *before* they get my money.

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...what was the point in going there?

 

 

I'm guessing there's some pressure from their biggest customer base to define what "real Christianity" is.

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I'm guessing there's some pressure from their biggest customer base to define what "real Christianity" is.

 

 

I would change "biggest" to "most vocal." These are not the same, IMO.

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I'm guessing there's some pressure from their biggest customer base to define what "real Christianity" is.

 

 

Yeah because believing in Christ, professing of Christ, and doing good towards others as He taught is obviously not Christlike enough :glare:

 

DD said in passing as some of us here were discussing this: "Point gun at foot, pull trigger....that's not gonna feel too good" LOL

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Well shoot. Anyone know where I can find a zoology curriculum that's NOT Apologia now? DD was so looking forward to studying the animals, but no way after this.

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Well shoot. Anyone know where I can find a zoology curriculum that's NOT Apologia now? DD was so looking forward to studying the animals, but no way after this.

 

 

We are really enjoying the Sassafras Twins Zoology Adventure from Elemental Science.

 

I have no idea why Apologia felt the need to write a blog post about the LDS church. Write your science books and stay out of the rest of it. Nobody cares about your opinion of who is a "Christian", and I don't think God needs your help figuring it out. Sheesh! As my grandma says, "Some people have diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain."

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Kind of funny that Apologia compares purchasing from them to buying from a place that sells liquor, cigarettes, and lottery tickets.

 

Bill

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Most likely, like most denominations, some of the people who attend there truly are Christians and some are not. I think that pretty much is true across the board. I don't think it is the church you attend that makes you a Christian or not. It is how you live your life and what is in your heart that matters.

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Kind of funny that Apologia compares purchasing from them to buying from a place that sells liquor, cigarettes, and lottery tickets.

 

Bill

 

Bill, I was going to stay out of this thread completely, but your comment made me laugh with the irony of it and I just had to say so!

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Well shoot. Anyone know where I can find a zoology curriculum that's NOT Apologia now? DD was so looking forward to studying the animals, but no way after this.

 

 

Well, Apologia divides it into three areas, flying creatures, swimming creatures, and land creatures. So start by dividing a typical 36 week school year into 3 sections of 12 weeks each. Do 12 weeks on flying, 12 on swimming, and 12 on land. Rough it out on a calendar.

Then take a look at the different kinds of animals and what you want to teach about them. For example, for the swimming ones, you could do fish, mammals, reptiles (like turtles), plankton, etc.

Plus you could look at different aquatic environments - oceans, rivers, ponds, wetlands.

From these, pick a "theme" for each one- to two-week segment of the unit. Hit the library regularly, and check out whatever they have on the current topic, plus the one coming up next. Read the books aloud together.

So maybe two weeks of fish, then a week of oceans, then some mammals, then ponds, then turtles, etc. See how it goes, and change the order as you go if you desire.

You'll also want some field trips. How about an aquarium when you do fish? Maybe a zoo when you do reptiles? And perhaps a nature center with a nice pond would be good too. Find some friends to go with you, or go on the weekend with dad.

Get a membership to at least one of these places, and make a point of going regularly throughout the year. Each time you go, you'll learn more about what you've been reading about, and also come up with new questions to investigate at the library.

Discuss what you learn. Talk about the books you read.

How are the animals different? How are they the same? What do they eat? What eats them? Where do they live? How does the weather affect them? What is their life cycle like?

If you want, you could ask your child to write something about what they've learned, or draw about it, or do a notebooking page.

Or maybe they'd like to put on a play with some friends, or make a short video.

Get together once in a while with some friends and have "Animal Reports Day", where each kid does an oral report on a particular animal or habitat. It would be fun to do the reports at lunch time during a zoo visit!

Read some fiction too - Mr. Popper's Penguins would be a fun one for the "swimming" unit.

If you have a basic structure planned, it's easy to fill in details as you go. And not only will your kids learn about the animals, they'll also learn *how* to learn about things that interest them.

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Apologia says a lot of things that are completely baseless -- and sometimes crams nearly all of them into one blog post.

 

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel the urge to play "spot the fallacies" with this one?

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Feel free, Audrey--it's gonna be a long list, though! :p

 

I'm impressed at how they managed to get SO MUCH wrong. As Kermit the Frog said, "You know, that's amazing. You are 100% wrong. I mean, nothing you've said has been right." I'm another Mormon, and I agree with those above--we aren't taught this stuff.

 

Can I just say that it warms my heart to see all of you so vocally annoyed about this? :grouphug:

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Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I think the website is saying Mormons believe those things about Christians, not that Christians are calling Mormons those things? I don't understand, do Mormons call themselves Christians? If they identify as Christians, are they saying those things about themselves? I'm confused.

The website is claiming (wrongly) that Mormons believe those things about Christians (that is, everybody not Mormon). They also say that Mormons think they are Christians but are not.

 

In fact, LDS people are Christians. We believe in Jesus Christ as Savior. And we don't say all those things about anybody. I've never sat in church and heard those things.

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I despise exclusive minded spirituality in all its forms and find is to always be in contrast with spirit.

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I think what is most irritating about that post (well, aside from it being so incredible *wrong* about so many things we believe) is that they tear apart a religion with miscontrued things, things taken out of context, and outright lies all the while insisting that members of that religion should feel free and in good conscience about buying their stuff. I'd be much more okay with their attack (it's more of the same, really) if they also said don't buy our books if you are Mormon.

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Okay, I haven't read the blog but... We tried a biology book from BJU and within the first chapter (?) there was an entire anti-Mormon/Joseph Smith page. What was that doing in a biology textbook? :huh: I have no clue. I let it roll off my back but my teen couldn't get past it. That set the tone and she couldn't take the rest of the book seriously. We ditched the book. I'm not telling her about this because she is currently using Apologia :laugh: in a co-op.

 

I've also read anti-Mormon information in Rod & Staff textbooks. That didn't bother me as much because it was in a lesson about Utah. We did the lessons anyway because I feel my girls need to know what other people think of them. Sad but true.

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Well, Apologia divides it into three areas, flying creatures, swimming creatures, and land creatures. So start by dividing a typical 36 week school year into 3 sections of 12 weeks each. Do 12 weeks on flying, 12 on swimming, and 12 on land. Rough it out on a calendar.

Then take a look at the different kinds of animals and what you want to teach about them. For example, for the swimming ones, you could do fish, mammals, reptiles (like turtles), plankton, etc.

Plus you could look at different aquatic environments - oceans, rivers, ponds, wetlands.

From these, pick a "theme" for each one- to two-week segment of the unit. Hit the library regularly, and check out whatever they have on the current topic, plus the one coming up next. Read the books aloud together.

So maybe two weeks of fish, then a week of oceans, then some mammals, then ponds, then turtles, etc. See how it goes, and change the order as you go if you desire.

You'll also want some field trips. How about an aquarium when you do fish? Maybe a zoo when you do reptiles? And perhaps a nature center with a nice pond would be good too. Find some friends to go with you, or go on the weekend with dad.

Get a membership to at least one of these places, and make a point of going regularly throughout the year. Each time you go, you'll learn more about what you've been reading about, and also come up with new questions to investigate at the library.

Discuss what you learn. Talk about the books you read.

How are the animals different? How are they the same? What do they eat? What eats them? Where do they live? How does the weather affect them? What is their life cycle like?

If you want, you could ask your child to write something about what they've learned, or draw about it, or do a notebooking page.

Or maybe they'd like to put on a play with some friends, or make a short video.

Get together once in a while with some friends and have "Animal Reports Day", where each kid does an oral report on a particular animal or habitat. It would be fun to do the reports at lunch time during a zoo visit!

Read some fiction too - Mr. Popper's Penguins would be a fun one for the "swimming" unit.

If you have a basic structure planned, it's easy to fill in details as you go. And not only will your kids learn about the animals, they'll also learn *how* to learn about things that interest them.

 

Great ideas, and I pulled this this out and into a separate thread on the K-8 Curriculum Board to get more ideas (and stop hijacking this thread). Thanks!

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Well shoot. Anyone know where I can find a zoology curriculum that's NOT Apologia now? DD was so looking forward to studying the animals, but no way after this.

 

Have you looked at Elemental Science?

 

I ruled out Apologia long ago because of their YE viewpoint, but I find this saddening and disappointing.

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I have no idea why Apologia felt the need to write a blog post about the LDS church.

 

 

A conversation has taken place publicly in the last few days, which was prompted by concerns that some in the Mormon community voiced about an online class and a biblical worldview text offered by Apologia.

 

It sounds like they were responding to a public discussion and responding the issues that were brought up rather than trying to field individual phone calls.

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The website is claiming (wrongly) that Mormons believe those things about Christians (that is, everybody not Mormon). They also say that Mormons think they are Christians but are not.

 

In fact, LDS people are Christians. We believe in Jesus Christ as Savior. And we don't say all those things about anybody. I've never sat in church and heard those things.

we also believe we are expected to do the things Jesus taught.

we're too busy focusing on learning the scriptures, and lessons about how we can be better Christians- we don't have time to discuss what we think other sects teach. (we figure they'll take care of themselves). there's always something new to learn - even if we've read that verse 50 times before.

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